Senator Hawley's statement, if you actually read it,
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All-In [26968]
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Senator Hawley's statement, if you actually read it,
Dec 31, 2020, 8:11 AM
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Explicitly says it is a grandstanding objection. He is doing it to "point out" things or "draw attention to" things. He's not actually objecting to the validity of the electoral votes. Legally, that would be the only valid reason to object. Obviously, he has no basis on which to do that.
He also pulls the "the other side did it first" line, which is, of course, attitude from kindergarten.
You can see the strategy is no longer to win the election, because everyone knows that's not going to happen. The strategy is now to correct these "serious election issues" in the future, supposedly. It sounds noble, in a way, except for the fact that the serious issues didn't happen. The real motive is to cultivate resentment in their voter base, which they believe is politically beneficial.
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Oculus Spirit [94291]
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Re: Senator Hawley's statement, if you actually read it,
Dec 31, 2020, 8:53 AM
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So you're saying he will vote to certify the EV?
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All-In [26968]
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There is no vote to certify.
Dec 31, 2020, 9:06 AM
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The electoral votes have already been certified. Congress is just going to count them. Obviously, some people are going to object, we've been told, after which the houses will need to vote to override the objection(s).
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Oculus Spirit [94291]
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I thought you read it?
Dec 31, 2020, 9:12 AM
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He doesn't know what he's talking about?
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All-In [26968]
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Well, no he doesn't. LOL.
Dec 31, 2020, 9:20 AM
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Or rather, I think he knows what he's talking about, he's just deliberately obfuscating, for the reasons I described.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: I thought you read it?
Dec 31, 2020, 11:19 AM
[ in reply to I thought you read it? ] |
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"Millions of voters concerned about election integrity need to be heard"
Is a self-licking ice cream cone. You feed them disinformation about massive election fraud, and then you need to act because they're concerned about election integrity.
Rinse, repeat.
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All-In [26968]
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I believe this is correct. The ONLY reason
Dec 31, 2020, 12:13 PM
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anyone has any concern over election fraud is because they were primed for it before the election, and the rest is just confirmation bias.
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All-In [40375]
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I’ve said it here before and I will say it again
Jan 1, 2021, 8:27 AM
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I believe there is some degree of voter fraud Enough to change an election? Unpossible
I’m talking a couple few hundred peppered in here and there
There’s a small degree of cheating in almost any competition, heck even our very own Venables steals signs for crying out loud!
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Orange Blooded [2429]
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Re: I’ve said it here before and I will say it again
Jan 1, 2021, 8:49 AM
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So you believe biden is much more popular than obama and clinton by millions of votes in the 5 states that I say cheated but he has much less black vote in the other 45 states.
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Legend [16366]
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More people were willing to vote for Biden.
Jan 1, 2021, 10:55 AM
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It's pretty simple. The proof is in the 81+ million votes cast, counted, and certified by every single solitary voting precinct across this great country of ours. Every. Single. Solitary. Precinct.
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CU Guru [1878]
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All-In [26968]
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We know that President-elect Biden is not as popular
Jan 2, 2021, 5:49 AM
[ in reply to Re: I’ve said it here before and I will say it again ] |
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as President Obama. His total number of votes in the November election is not the best measure of that relative popularity.
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All-In [26968]
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Well, of course. There always is.
Jan 2, 2021, 5:51 AM
[ in reply to I’ve said it here before and I will say it again ] |
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Although it's much, much more likely to be a few hundred individual fraudulent votes by scattered individuals, than blocs of a few hundred (not sure if that's what you meant).
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All-In [34148]
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Re: Senator Hawley's statement, if you actually read it,
Dec 31, 2020, 9:01 AM
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Not only is it grandstanding, but it's almost contradictory. In the "they did it first" part, he talks about how Democrats were "praised" for doing it in 2016. The implication being that they should not have been praised. But if they should not have been praised, then consistency should compel him not to act like whichever Democrats he's complaining about.
But he's doing the same thing.
Grandstanding might be acceptable if it makes sense, but this doesn't even make sense. As you said, kindergarten.
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Oculus Spirit [94291]
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I'll ask you.
Dec 31, 2020, 9:08 AM
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Do you think he will vote to certify the electoral votes from PA, GA, AZ, MI and MN? The OP seemed to suggest that he would indeed vote to certify them. Will he or not?
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All-In [34148]
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Re: I'll ask you.
Dec 31, 2020, 9:12 AM
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Totally honest answer: I have never bothered to find out what Congress's role is in the election, because it has always been pro forma. Apparently there are always a few silly people who cast some sort of protest vote, but they're meaningless.
That's the extent of my knowledge, so my only expectation is that nothing Hawley does will matter.
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All-In [26968]
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I don't know if a Senator has ever joined
Dec 31, 2020, 9:23 AM
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in objecting, which is what forces the houses to vote on the objections(s).
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All-In [34148]
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Ah, interesting.***
Dec 31, 2020, 9:45 AM
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Oculus Spirit [94291]
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Hall of Famer [20571]
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Re: I don't either.
Dec 31, 2020, 12:19 PM
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Yes, everybody always saw everything Tommy Tuberville did coming, which is why he is no longer a football coach.
I guess that somehow qualifies him for the Senate in the great state of Alabama. And who said great statesmanship was dead and gone?
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Orange Blooded [4747]
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Re: I don't either.
Dec 31, 2020, 9:27 PM
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Apparently the only thing Alabama fans hate more than Auburn is a Democrat. And that is a sad commentary on the state of American politics.
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Hall of Famer [24404]
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Re: Senator Hawley's statement, if you actually read it,
Jan 1, 2021, 3:12 AM
[ in reply to Re: Senator Hawley's statement, if you actually read it, ] |
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I agree. But that is part of the new political process. As is impeachment just part of the new political process. And much of that I blame on Republicans with Clinton's impeachment. If Republicans take the House during the Biden administration, I would expect an impeachment for one reason or another. Not that I think that would be right, but I believe that is where we are at this point. Perhaps some of the minority will call for impeachment as some democrats did as soon as Trump was elected.
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All-In [26968]
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Maybe when the objection is filed, in writing,
Dec 31, 2020, 9:26 AM
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it will say "Pennsylvania's electoral votes are invalid because....", but he's not saying that here.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Senator Hawley's statement, if you actually read it,
Dec 31, 2020, 12:28 PM
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OK, I think there is something missing in the explanations here. I think this is how it will work (although I admit I had not looked into this before now because it has so seldom come up)
Here is my understanding of the process:
First things first - the previous challenges to EC votes to which Senator Hawley refers occurred in the House only. As such they were noted and quickly quelled - "yes, we note your objection, now please sit down and shut up while we accept the EC votes." These were knowingly simple, short, pro-forma challenges.
This is exactly how they would be treated this year if the challenges arose only in the House. But if Senator Hawley challenges these votes in the Senate also, he will trigger a more significant aspect of the process. At that point, the Senate and the House will meet separately to discuss and debate the challenges. I think that they will have a maximum of two hours per state challenged. At the end of that time, each Representative and Senator will have to vote to either accept the EC votes from each of the challenged states or to reject them.
THIS is the vote that McConnell sooo wants to avoid because it will put Republicans between a rock and a hard place - support Trump (& his loyal worshippers) or support popular democracy. Either way it is going to expose some vulnerable Repubs to electoral damage.
One last thing - and this is extreme. It is Constitutionally possible for Republicans to reject enough EC votes to deprive Biden of the 270 needed to win the EC. Then the election of the President would be thrown into the House of Representatives where each state would have only one vote. The majority of state delegations are majority Republican.
BTW, the election of the VP would be thrown into the Senate - majority Repubs.
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All-In [26968]
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No EVs are going to be rejected. It's fantasy.***
Dec 31, 2020, 12:54 PM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: No EVs are going to be rejected. It's fantasy.***
Dec 31, 2020, 1:37 PM
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No prod, I don't think the Electoral College votes will be rejected. But Hawley can force a debate and a vote on each state challenged.
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Legend [18026]
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It's coup playacting to appease Trump and his base...
Dec 31, 2020, 5:27 PM
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It should be called out as Ben Sasse has done here:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/31/politics/sasse-gop-certification-objections-dangerous/index.html
I'm seeing reports that up to 140 Republican members of the House are going to vote against the Electoral Vote results which is just beyond ridiculous. It's a bit scary to think this is where the Republican party is and to think that so many voters are okay with it.
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All-In [26968]
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To me, it's heartbreaking.
Dec 31, 2020, 6:51 PM
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I so badly hoped four years ago this wouldn't be a result of the Trump presidency. I hoped that kind, decent, conservatism would survive the four years. To see so many leaders of the party that I once perceived as standing for the Constitution and the rule of law doing this...it's hard to overstate my disappointment.
That's not to say that kind, decent conservatives are gone...it just seems they are in the minority, and that is sad, to me. I will continue to vote for them, if I can find them.
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Orange Blooded [4747]
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Re: It's coup playacting to appease Trump and his base...
Dec 31, 2020, 9:30 PM
[ in reply to It's coup playacting to appease Trump and his base... ] |
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It's definitely a play to the ignorant, racist base in rural Missouri. I live in MO and other than KC, STL, and Columbia/Jeff City, this state is exactly what I described. Hawley will try to roll this into a presidential campaign in four years on the back of the Trump base in the boonies.
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