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Rock Defender [54]
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Clemson is being run by idiots!! (Long)
May 7, 2010, 1:52 PM
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Back in the 70s through the early 90s Clemson was a school with a passion for academics AND athletics! Additionally, we had a special atmosphere and a uniqueness that few other schools could match.
Today, however, I'm constantly amazed by the stupidity of the people running my beloved alma mater! Folks, we're being run by the keystone cops!
Sure, some good things have happened, but to the young pups on TNET that thinks all things CU revolve around Barker, I have news for you, Clemson didn't just become a good school under Barker. Clemson has always been an excellent school.
Sadly these young pups have no historical perspective regarding our academic or athletic success in the past, nor realize the body blows Clemson's culture has been taking over the past 10 years!
The saddest thing of all is that this travesty is not only happening under the watch of, but being perpetrated by someone that is actually a member of our own family! Barker, please stop pulling a Fredo on our beloved Clemson!!
You don't have to look hard to find ample evidence of the stupidity and betrayal within our house ...
Our president, so fixated on a stupid & purely subjective magazine poll, doesn't take a dump without first spending money to research how that might effect our ranking in said poll.
He also aggressively pursues every possible means of cheating, oops, I mean, manipulating, errr nope, oh yes, "massaging" the numbers to benefit Clemson. Even the magazine itself responded by stating that no school had ever climbed so many spots so quickly, not even close. And they reacted by adjusting their matrix. I guess they thought academic institutions held themselves to the same honor codes as their students! Oh well!
And boy, did we jump a lot of schools in only two or three years. How is that possible in a poor state slashing education budgets annually faster than Indiana Jones hacking through a jungle with a razor sharp machete?
Sadly, Barker's young and naive padawans will rush to his defense and spout statistics and other manipulated, oops again, "massaged" numbers, but it doesn't take a mathematician to know something stinks in Pickens County!
And pleaseeeeeeeeee don't tell me about Barker's "One Clemson" initiative! Any fool can pay a marketing company for a catchy phrase to lull the masses. Then again, if Barker did coin that phrase himself he's an even bigger charlatan than I give him credit for being!
Under this same president, one who sucked us in with his "One Clemson" and ambitious athletic goals, CU has been siphoning $5 million, or more, per year out of the coffers of our AD. Money donated by loyal Clemson fans thinking that money would be spent on athletics!
Folks, when I give money to the university, I expect it to be spent on the university. And when I give money to IPTAY, I darn well expect it to be used to benefit out athletes!
If the Federal government gives a state money, it darn well better be spent on what the government says. Just as I knew my mother was going to tan my hide if she found out I spent my milk money on soda pop! It's pure and simple deception and mismanagement of funds. It's also breaking a trust between IPTAY and donors!
Don't get me wrong, IPTAY has been giving money to the university a long time. Around a million plus a year back in the 80s. And I'm ok with that to a degree if that money was gravy. And thanks to IPTAY, CU's AD ran a surplus while funding very successful athletic programs back then, so there was some gravy left over. But today, in this economy, and as poor as our athletic teams are performing, we're giving the university over $5 million per year? Are you kidding me?
We're talking $50 million dollars of IPTAY money over a 10 year period given to the university when that money was donated for ATHLETICS!
Folks, $50 million buys an indoor football practice facility, an Olympic sized swimming pool, supports a wrestling team, a women's golf team, a women's softball team, with money leftover for some upgrades on our other facilities!
Let's not forget the $3.5 million we're paying Tommy Bowden because of an asinine contract dictated by Barker given to TB when he was basically a lame duck coach with a minimal buyout!
Yet, despite all Barker's talk and lofty goals, we have things like the AARC and broken promises made to our head coaches in regards to staff, facilities, and other benefits, not for the coaches themselves, but to better the program and help the players, which in turn benefits CLEMSON!!
And again, pleaseeeeeeeeeeee don't tell me colleges & universities are institutions of higher learning. No ##### Sherlock, but athletics are an integral part of a college, part of most school's tradition & identity, as well as helping to provide a well rounded educational experience. Additionally, money spent on athletics comes back many times in the form of priceless marketing!
And more importantly, successful athletics drive interest and application volume. We found that out first hand after the 1981 National Championship. The biggest jumps ever in SAT scores for freshman were recorded the few years following our Orange Bowl win!
Maybe someone should tell Barker that pretty much every school ranked ahead of Clemson in his precious magazine poll is a school with a household name, largely because pretty much every school ahead of Clemson in the poll has a superior athletic program. Thanks to a true commitment to excellence in both academics & athletics!
Maybe someone should remind him that the service academies & Ivy League schools take athletics fairly seriously as well.
And here in the last few weeks we have again made ourselves look stupid. We quickly grant Thornton an "unconditional" release to his LOI because we want to look so nice and we're so scared of the slightest criticism.
What we should have said is, "Marcus, We understand your concern, but we are committed to getting an excellent basketball coach, which we will have very shortly. Let us fill that position, get to know him, then, if you still want out, we'll grant you a release, but it will NOT be to another ACC school, nor to a school in our major recruiting footprint, which we consider to be Alabama, Georgia, North Carolina, & Virginia."
End of story.
That's what pretty much every other school does! You think another ACC school, esp GaTech or one of the Tobacco Road schools, would let a player in in a major sport leave to play at Clemson? Yea, right!!
But nooooo, we give the kid an unconditional release to look good, and now he's looking to play for one of our biggest rivals and conference foes!
Then we turn around and get taught this valuable lesson by a crappy SEC school because we don't have the balls to yank press credentials from one of the most biased buffoons in the SC media. We need someone in our admin to tell this moron to keep away from our players, recruits, & program.
Yes, my Clemson brothers, we are sitting by watching the decline of our beloved school while it's being run by idiots, fools, and charlatans!! We're becoming bush league because we're run by folks that don't care, aren't in tune with the schools true mission, and are definitely out of touch with the fan base & alumni!
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Legend [15751]
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You're right...that WAS long. ******
May 7, 2010, 2:00 PM
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Heisman Winner [105736]
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That's what she said!***
May 7, 2010, 2:20 PM
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110%er [8009]
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Die-Hard [8977]
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How many times are you going to write this garbage?...
May 7, 2010, 2:04 PM
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We all know that you think athletics come first and that they should get everything they want. Whether you like it or not, that is not the current reality. Times have changed since the 1970s and 80s and if you can't accept that, then that's your problem and not the Clemson administration's.
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Orange Blooded [3121]
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Why have they changed? Athletics are probably bigger
May 7, 2010, 2:08 PM
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now than they were back then?
If things are changing, it should be because more attention is being paid to the athletic programs, not less.
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Die-Hard [8977]
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Two reasons:
May 7, 2010, 4:32 PM
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1) scholarship reductions. Football is down to 85 and I know that baseball has dropped to 11.7. I'm not sure what baseball was 20 years ago, but I believe it was nearer 14.
2) More Division 1 schools. There are more schools in Division 1 (FBS & FCS) than there were 20 years ago. Some "1A" schools didn't even play football 20 years ago.
Neither one of those facts is the fault of the Clemson administration. Some of us can accept those changes. Unfortunately, some people can't and that's their problem. The "old days" aren't coming back. And I grew up going to Clemson games in the 1970s, so nobody can accuse me of being a "youngster". I remember the 70s when football was really bad. Even though I'm "old", I realize that times have changed and don't look back on the "old days" with anywhere near the nostalgia that some people do.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Neither of those reasons excuse or explain our lack of ACC
May 7, 2010, 6:40 PM
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championships. Stop making excuses! God you are so clueless!
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Orange Blooded [3436]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Rock Defender [54]
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LOL! Grad yr 2008. So predictable!***
May 7, 2010, 3:33 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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You must be OLD!!!!
May 7, 2010, 4:05 PM
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Man you must hate young people. Your life must be terrible.
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Legend [15751]
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Maybe the problem with Clemson's "Special Feel" is you.
May 7, 2010, 4:12 PM
[ in reply to LOL! Grad yr 2008. So predictable!*** ] |
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You think that Clemson has lost this special feeling that it once had. Then a bunch of recent alumni come on here to say it's a pretty special place and all you can say is that their opinions don't matter. I disagree. Their opinions matter more than ours do (I'm class of 1998).
All this talk about what a horrible environment Barker has created at Clemson, but under his leadership, Clemson gets recognition for having the happiest students, for having the happiest faculty, and for being a top notch institiution. It's still recognized as a #1 "Jock" school, meaning the students still love their teams.
I guess none of that matters...it has to stay exactly the way it was while you were there or it sucks.
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Orange Blooded [4741]
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Come on, man. *Everything* sucks these days.
May 7, 2010, 4:15 PM
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It's cool to be a disenfranchised adult. Didn't you know that?
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110%er [8009]
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Somewhere a tea bagger is taking offense to that statement***
May 7, 2010, 4:35 PM
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CU Guru [1653]
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hit the nail on the head.
May 7, 2010, 4:31 PM
[ in reply to Maybe the problem with Clemson's "Special Feel" is you. ] |
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I am proud of where Clemson was, where it is today, and where this program is going. I have the 81 season Orange bowl game on VHS. I have the FSU game on my DVR, and I am going to have our ACC championship game next year on my iphone)
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Rock Defender [54]
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yes cheating to do better in a magazine survey. Real proud
May 7, 2010, 6:58 PM
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of that leadership. And you're happy about the direction of our athletic department? Have you seen where it was in the 80s, 90s, and now? The trend is DOWN!
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Rock Defender [54]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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lol, i never said there opinion didn't matter but it lacks
May 7, 2010, 6:55 PM
[ in reply to Maybe the problem with Clemson's "Special Feel" is you. ] |
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perspective, which means they have less of a frame of reference. things change gradually, incrementally, until Barker anyway, so it takes longer time frames to understand most change.
And FYI, many inside the AD & U. are on record saying that moral is at an all time low. Not a sign Barker is successful!
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Orange Blooded [4741]
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What does President Barker have to do with our morals?
May 7, 2010, 7:19 PM
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I don't love everything the guy has done, but are you questioning his morals in all of this?
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Rock Defender [54]
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good grief. are you 12? a college grad? "morale" it was a
May 7, 2010, 10:37 PM
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typo and the context of the post made it obvious I meant "morale" and not "morals". Shesh!
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Legend [15751]
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Legend [15751]
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Got those records ready yet? Tell ya what, why don't you
May 10, 2010, 8:33 AM
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...focus on just telling me why my records don't count, rather than trying to produce the records that you claimed to have?
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Orange Blooded [4302]
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Why does either have to "come first"? Strive for greatness
May 7, 2010, 3:36 PM
[ in reply to How many times are you going to write this garbage?... ] |
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in both aspects at the same time! It can be done and you don't have to strive for one at the expense of the other like it is now.
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Rock Defender [54]
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But that's the thing, there are actually many on here that
May 7, 2010, 3:40 PM
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do not believe there are forces in our admin that do things to hurt athletics. They think our admin truly wants success in both, despite the obvious.
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Enthusiast [100]
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All-In [29037]
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Releasing someone form their LOI unconditionally
May 7, 2010, 2:09 PM
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Is a fairly common practice when coaching changes occur.
Additionally, its the right thing to do (especially in this case), as we didn't turn away another recruit to hold his spot.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Show me a case of an ACC school doing this and NOT
May 7, 2010, 2:16 PM
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limiting the release conditional on not going to other ACC schools.
And at the very least we should of made him wait to see who the other coach was first.
This kid is now going to schools that aren't as good as we are at basketball, including our biggest conference rival, which is his probable destination.
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CU Guru [1660]
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Re: Show me a case of an ACC school doing this and NOT
May 8, 2010, 1:57 PM
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yeah I like hearing you speak of perspective, it's OK as long as it's yours and wrong if it's not.
Kinda defeats the purpose don't you think.
Everybody who does not think as you do is an idiot, correct me if I'm wrong but the evidence is all over T-Net.
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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Yawn.***
May 7, 2010, 2:09 PM
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Fan [68]
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Re: Clemson is being run by idiots!! (Long)
May 7, 2010, 2:23 PM
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We have found the idiot. It is you
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CU Guru [1653]
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yep.***
May 7, 2010, 2:24 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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All-TigerNet [11894]
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Clemson took the high road with Thornton; plus, having a
May 7, 2010, 2:26 PM
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player on your team who is resentful because he doesn't want to be there cannot possibly be a good thing.
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Rock Defender [54]
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He can be released. I never said not to release him, I said
May 7, 2010, 2:38 PM
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it should of been handled differently. And frankly, I'm tired of the high road. I'm not saying do anything & everything to win, but if you aren't doing similar things as the competition you are not going to be competitive.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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The high road and the winning road aren't the same thing
May 7, 2010, 3:19 PM
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Do you think UNC will give the Ware twins an unconditional release from their scholarships? I'm guessing they aren't allowed to play on our side of the Mississippi. We gave away a recruit so we could play nice, and now he might go to Georgia Tech. Seriously, that is the stupidest thing we could have done. Hire a new coach, give the kid a chance to meet and talk with him, and then, if it doesn't work out, cut him loose somewhere outside of the ACC. We gave our head coach 0 chance in convincing this young man, because by the time he was hired, everyone was all ready in the kids ear.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Exactly! They could of asked him to wait a week or two.***
May 7, 2010, 3:35 PM
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Legend [15751]
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Joined: 2/1/99
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Rock Defender [54]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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No, you don't get it!***
May 7, 2010, 3:41 PM
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Legend [15751]
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Okay, well...can we agree that SOMEONE doesn't get it? ******
May 7, 2010, 3:43 PM
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null [13]
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AGREE 100%***
May 7, 2010, 2:34 PM
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All-TigerNet [10158]
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agree...bunch of b.s. tired of it too
***
May 7, 2010, 2:45 PM
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Orange Blooded [4139]
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You feel better now?***
May 7, 2010, 2:47 PM
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Historian [3380]
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If fingers could spit, I bet his keyboard would be . . .
May 7, 2010, 3:04 PM
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covered in slobber right now - g&b 
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Rock Defender [54]
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I type one handed, my other hand is covered in ......***
May 7, 2010, 3:13 PM
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CU Guru [1653]
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lol. we are all glad you didn't finish that sentence.***
May 7, 2010, 3:15 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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Dude I'm eating a Harshey's bar! ;-) Its hot today!***
May 7, 2010, 3:45 PM
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MVP [536]
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I'm a 2004 Grad and I agree 100%....
May 7, 2010, 3:08 PM
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Couldn't have said it better myself.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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My wife and I are 2003 grads
May 7, 2010, 3:15 PM
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We are sadden by the state of affairs at Clemson.
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110%er [8930]
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I graduated in '04, and got a masters in '08. My gf got her
May 7, 2010, 3:19 PM
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masters from CU in '07. My brother got his degree in '01. His wife got her bachelors in '00, and then her masters in '02. My sister and her husband each got their degrees in '94.
ALL of us feel the same way.
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All-TigerNet [14921]
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Obviously written by somebody who hasn't been around
May 7, 2010, 3:22 PM
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the University in a long time. You can sit at home and criticize Barker et al all you want but he's not destroying the school, the athletic department, the football team (which isn't synonymous with the University despite what some people on here seem to think), or anything else. Clemson is a better SCHOOL right now than it has ever been, not because a magazine says it is, but because of everyone who loves Clemson and wants to see it become an even better place (Yes, including Barker).
The USC Law School recently dropped into the 3rd Tier in the latest US N&WP rankings and it was an absolute $hitstorm. People say the rankings don't matter and they don't care what Clemson is ranked which is easy to say when we're steadily climbing up, but once your school drops, it's a whole 'nother story. Clemson is in good hands academically and athletically and all these old timers who can't handle it need to get on board. Just because it doesn't look like "your" Clemson doesn't mean it's not "Clemson". GO TIGERS!
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Orange Blooded [3436]
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Agree to disagree then...***
May 7, 2010, 3:27 PM
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All-TigerNet [14921]
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deal***
May 7, 2010, 3:30 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Ok, so I guess all the recent grads who agree with me from
May 7, 2010, 3:50 PM
[ in reply to Obviously written by somebody who hasn't been around ] |
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long time CU families don't know what's going on either?
I'm in Clemson often. Have friends that graduated with me in the 80s still living n working there. I know folks in the AD & Admin. I know what's going on, even from Charleston.
By the way, many within the AD & U. are on record stating that the moral at CU is the worst it's ever been. But you think Barker is doing a bang up job? You think the cheating he did regarding the US News poll made us look good?
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Re: Ok, so I guess all the recent grads who agree with me from
May 7, 2010, 6:55 PM
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You can find employees in ANY company in America that say moral is low. Sign of the times.
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Orange Blooded [4302]
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I concur. Well written post.
May 7, 2010, 3:29 PM
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I've felt this way for the last few years. Unfortunately there are too many people (as evidenced by some of these replies and my conversations with others) that can't see this. One of the biggest problems any person or any entity can make is to operate as though two goals are mutually exclusive when they are not. In doing so, they not only fail to aspire to greatness in both aspects, but often sabotage one, intentionally or not, in order to strive for the other. There are too many examples of highly successful academic and athletic schools to not strive for that with everything at your disposal. The current administration at Clemson is not striving for this, and you have been hoodwinked if you believe they are.
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Freshman [2]
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Great post! Barker and his cronies are an embarrassment...
May 7, 2010, 4:04 PM
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btw. you forgot to mention:
tuition increases
getting an exemption so he could hire his son
sending his staff out to make comments on Internet message boards
Timber cutting on simpson farm
giving raises to his "admin" staff while making cuts in other core departments
hiring a lobbyist to get Federal money
Troutman lawsuit allegations
Increasing out of state enrollment
harrassment of students by university police
the terrible tv commercials and ad campaign...
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Fan [76]
TigerPulse: 86%
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Re: Clemson is being run by idiots!! (Long)
May 7, 2010, 4:06 PM
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this is nonsense...
Clemson is in a great position and the current administration is doing fine.
They have increased the value of our degrees while our state legislators have cut our funding from 30% to 12% over the years. $$ have to come for somewhere to make the budget.
Be mad at the legislators, they fund us 12% but still regulate us 100% as a state agency.
If you want to help out, call our representative and complain about that. 100% regulation costs the university milliions to comply.
I am proud to be a Tiger and have Barker and his cronies at the helm.
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Orange Blooded [3436]
TigerPulse: 85%
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Joined: 6/24/01
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blind***
May 7, 2010, 4:09 PM
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Fan [76]
TigerPulse: 86%
Posts: 132
Joined: 8/9/05
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Re: blind***
May 7, 2010, 4:28 PM
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to what... the fact that my undergrad and masters is worth more than ever in the workplace.
And yes I volunteer on several Clemson Boards, give to Clemson Fund and am an IPTAY donor and Representative. I feel as if I as plugged in as you can get with hearing the current state of affairs at Clemson.
I'm happy with it all right now and that's all that matters to me.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9112
Joined: 11/30/98
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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LOL! My degree has always been valuable, but thanks! Are
May 7, 2010, 7:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson is being run by idiots!! (Long) ] |
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you proud of how bad and stupid we looked after it was revealed how Barker cheated to get us higher in the US News poll? Boy, I love an unethical college president, puts us on par with the coots! Oh yea, gotta love that kind of leadership.
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Varsity [211]
TigerPulse: 73%
Posts: 416
Joined: 3/1/02
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What, exactly, are you claiming was unethical by Barker in
May 7, 2010, 10:11 PM
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the USN&WR rankings? The fact that he rated us, and no others, as a 5 on a 1-5 scale? His rating may be questioned, but it's hardly UNETHICAL to rate yourself higher than others. BTW this is a totally subjective piece of the rankings and HUNDREDS of administrators particpate in that particulat rating. The rating by one person does not affect the overall score AT ALL. In fact, USN&WR throws out the highest and lowest ratings - so Barker's rating didn't matter at all. It in no way affected our overall rating so stop insinuated that it did.
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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wow! you need to go educate yourself. 1st are you not
May 7, 2010, 10:56 PM
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are of the scandal published where Barker's point person explained exactly how we cheated to get a huge jump in the rankings? It practically made national headlines and made us look VERY bad!
The survey is only one part of the equation. The rest is based on criteria controlled by and reported by the schools. Barker is cooking the books. Once US News found out they started adjusting how their matrix is computed.
So do you think cheating is immoral?
Don't you think cheating by a college to get ranked higher in a magazine poll is incredibly sad and extremely unethical?
Go read some of these articles ...
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=clemson+cheats+us+news+survey&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=a471636effae88c7
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Recruit [89]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Joined: 1/6/06
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Wholly unfounded in nearly every respect.(long)
May 7, 2010, 5:21 PM
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I'll grant you the lack of historical perspective by many of this generation, but not all of us fall short in this area. Clemson HAS always been top notch IN S.C. and SOUTHEAST academically, especially in architecture/engineering/agriculture. However, the latest advances have expanded Clemson's influence across state and regional lines into the national and international arena. And with a broadened scope comes change, but Barker has a keen sense of what makes Clemson special and has generally maintained those things that are quintessential Tigertown. I'm all for maintaining the sense of tradition that makes Clemson unique, but I also support expanding the power of the paw beyond the South while maintaining its Southern roots and style. Be proud that Clemson has moved up in EVERY national ranking, not just one magazine. It's unanimous that the value of a Clemson degree across the board is stronger than its ever been. Now I've been frustrated as anyone with seemingly being "on the verge of greatness" for a decade, only to have the rug ripped out repeatedly, but these shortcomings don't lead to teh doorstep of Barker or academic initiatives. A strong academic Clemson can and should mean a strong athletic Clemson--if you truly understood One Clemson, both need to happen!
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Athletics help academics more than the reverse. And you
May 7, 2010, 7:08 PM
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and others don;t get that "One Clemson" is just a slogan, a catch phrase, and our admin is quietly doing much to hamper & harm athletics at Clemson. Take your head out the sand and you'd see it!
FYI, during the 80s while I was at Clemson our Accounting program had more Federal Reserve interns, which are picked based on merit and the quality of their program, than all the Ivy League schools combined.
Clemson has been an excellent school in many regards for a LONG time!
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Varsity [211]
TigerPulse: 73%
Posts: 416
Joined: 3/1/02
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Dude, Ivy League schools don't have Accounting!***
May 8, 2010, 11:06 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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what? how insane are you? they all have business schools
May 8, 2010, 11:53 PM
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as undergraduate programs with degrees in accting, mkting, finance, etc. good, seriously?
Cornell & Penn, 2 of the 8 Ivy League schools, are especially noted for their undergrad accounting programs.
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110%er [5456]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5197
Joined: 12/3/07
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Longest. Thread. Ever.***
May 7, 2010, 7:29 PM
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All-In [44075]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32984
Joined: 2/22/03
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Ridiculous, misguided, and idiotic post.
May 7, 2010, 8:28 PM
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You obviously have your mind made up on this, and I realize that there is no chance that you will ever change it. There is certainly nothing I can say that will cause you to question your beliefs, because you and I have disagreed about this numerous times in the past. Nonetheless, I feel obligated to respond.
I am 29 years old, and I graduated from Clemson in 2000. I was raised on Clemson University, as both of my parents are Clemson graduates. I know what you mean about Clemson being a special place. I also know what it means to really love Clemson University and care about it. Plenty of others here do too, so if you think you understand Clemson or love Clemson more than the rest of us, think again.
I am extremely proud to be a Clemson graduate - but never as proud as I am today. Why? Because Clemson is more respected than it has ever been, and my degree has never been worth more. Our reputation is not only stronger, but our influence is now national (and in some cases, international). We are not only an engineering and agriculture school, but rather a school with many strong programs. This rise in prestige has occurred under Barker's leadership, and our improvements are amazing.
Our athletic programs are comprised of players who represent our school well on and off the field. Our coaches run clean programs and do not cheat.
These positive attributes are in contrast to the "glory days" you reference. Clemson was surely a special place then too, but no more than today. Clemson had some good athletic teams, but we were also known cheaters. Clemson had solid academics, but not great.
I don't want to go back to the Clemson you long for. I don't want to have a lower academic reputation, nor do I want to be known as cheaters in sports. I agree that we don't have to choose between academics and athletics - and Barker agrees as well. Academically we are obviously stronger than ever, and I expect that to continue. Athletically, we are not where any of us want to be but we do have some positives. Our basketball program is stronger than it has ever been, and most of us believe that will continue under Brownell. Our football program is improving, and we have a great young coach at the helm. We have spent more money on facilities this decade than ever. I think our athletic program is poised for a bright future, and I am excited about the possibilities.
But if, despite these great times at Clemson, you choose to gripe and complain and long for the "good 'ol days," that is certainly your right. Just don't be surprised when many of us vehemently disagree.
Go Tigers!
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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LOL! You are so clueless its pathetic! So our coaches
May 7, 2010, 11:01 PM
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only succeeded back in the day because they cheated? you do realize the NCAA investigation in the late 80s PROVED Ford ran a clean program, do you not? You do realize the probation in the early 80s was because of Charlie Pell, who went to Florida and went there and got them on probation too? Ford was never accused of anything in either investigation. God some people are so stupid!
Also, Barker is a fraud and a cheat! Read some of these articles if you think "I" am biased!
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=clemson+cheats+us+news+survey&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=a471636effae88c7
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All-In [44075]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32984
Joined: 2/22/03
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I said we were KNOWN as cheaters. Regardless of how
May 8, 2010, 1:17 AM
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true that really was, we were in trouble under Pell and under Ford. Pell was definitely a cheater. I don't think Ford knowingly cheated, but we were on probation once while he was our coach and about to be investigated a second time. Those are the facts.
Please don't respond with "but everyone was doing it!" Not a valid excuse.
As for basketball, Tates Locke was a huge cheater. There is an SI article about him (you can read it in the SI Vault) discussing his cheating ways. And we ended up vacating some of our NCAA Tournament wins under Ellis for playing an ineligible player.
Clemson athletics of today are much better. We have honest, enthusiastic coaches who don't have to cheat (or even be suspected of cheating) to do well. And all indications are that our football and basketball teams, while contenders already, have an even brighter future.
But you can (and probably will) continue to cling to the "glory days" when we were a good 'ol boy agriculture school with a tobacco chewin' football coach. You wouldn't care that Clemson wasn't anywhere near its full potential...but many of us would. To each his own, right?
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Dude. grow up. The facts are clear, screw the perception. I
May 8, 2010, 2:00 PM
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can't change what people think, and don't care to. If others want to ignore facts and be stupid that's their problem, but the facts are, any real cheating we did and got caught for was back in the 70s (basketball & football).
The 88-89 investigation proved Ford ran a clean program.
And there was NOT about to be another investigation, where do you get that non-sense. The NCAA had just left town less than a year when Ford was fired. Forget rumor, stick to facts!
And while two wrongs don't make a right, the facts are, everyone DID cheat back then. And several media stories have been written about how cheating is worse today than ever because the money & stakes are higher, but newspapers are dying so there aren't the investigative pieces that use to bring these things to light for the NCAA. And the NCAA doesn't go out looking for this stuff anymore like they use to, because they are weaker now and again, the money in the game today.
In the last 10 years or so, every team in the SEC but Vandy has been on probation of some sort, as has almost half the ACC, but CU has been clean for over 20 years!
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Athletic Dir [896]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 784
Joined: 9/14/00
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You know
May 8, 2010, 10:09 AM
[ in reply to LOL! You are so clueless its pathetic! So our coaches ] |
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You don't help your cause much or validate your position by calling people who disagree with you pathetic, stupid, etc. It just makes you look juvenile and takes away from your "arguments."
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Um, can you read? I did NOT call him pathetic or stupid, I
May 8, 2010, 1:51 PM
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said it's pathetic how clueless he is, and it is. How can an educated graduate of Clemson be so freakin Clueless about things that are factual and listed on this board often?
How? I'll tell you how, by sticking their heads in the sand. That's how! And ignoring well known facts is pathetic!
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Orange Blooded [3257]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7167
Joined: 7/27/99
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You will get bashed, but you are mostly correct, but the
May 7, 2010, 11:07 PM
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orange colored glasses group will not agree. Before I get blasted, I would caution anyone questioning my Clemson pedigree which includes 69' grad, Iptay 41 yrs, Clemson Fund 41 yrs, and for what it is worth Iptay Rep 18 yrs. Yes I love it dearly, bu that does't mean I blindly accept all the goins on up there.
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Orange Blooded [3257]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7167
Joined: 7/27/99
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Remember I agreed with most of your remarks, but I feel Jim
May 7, 2010, 11:42 PM
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Barker has more positives than negatives overall. It is sort of like my feelings toward Jack Leggett. I don't agree with all he does, but his overall record is pretty darn good. Our main problem is not accepting the premise that athletics and academics can co-exist.
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Clemson is better than it ever has been.
May 8, 2010, 6:11 PM
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Whether we win 7 or 8 or 9 or 10 games in a particular football season is only a life/death matter for people like you too bitter to just enjoy our sports for what they are.
College athletics are entertainment, and are a means for providing college education to athletes who may not have otherwise had such an opportunity.
Your opinion about President Barker and those in charge is very uninformed and highly biased (for no apparent reason). Barker loves Clemson and wants to make it a better place.
My suggestion to you would be to just enjoy our athletic events, spend time with your Clemson friends, and maybe grow up just a little bit.
By the way, I got my diploma yesterday... but I probably don't know more than you do about what goes on at Clemson these days.
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110%er [5915]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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Thank you.
May 8, 2010, 7:10 PM
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Other than the dwindling state support.
Class of 75 and 78.
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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lol, so naive. my facts on barker's actions are well
May 8, 2010, 11:36 PM
[ in reply to Clemson is better than it ever has been. ] |
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documented IN NEWSPAPERS FROM SC TO NATIONAL PAPERS TO THE NY TIMES. be it the unethical behavior to cheat in the us news poll or his lies to dabo and OP. if you pull your head out the sand you might see the facts.
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Also college football is not just entertainment, its a multi
May 8, 2010, 11:40 PM
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billion dollar industry and along with basketball the prime way the general public knows about most colleges and universities. it also helps a university in many ways, including academics.
as yourself this. if it's purely entertainment, why do most schools ranked ahead of clemson in the us news poll have better sports programs than clemson and why do they make sports a bigger priority than we do?
could it be they get what barker doesn't? or do you think its merely a coincidence?
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Legend [16264]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12790
Joined: 11/14/09
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Let me get this straight...
May 8, 2010, 6:59 PM
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Won 9 games and the Atlantic Division in football (1st ever title of any kind in 20 years).
Produced one of the top college stories of the year in CJ Spiller and his accomplishments both on and off the field.
Top 20 2010 football recruiting class. 2011 class projected even higher, all with a rookie coach.
Made the NCAA basketball tournament for a record 3rd straight year.
Will certainly be in the NCAA's in baseball by season's end.
Finished a major stadium expansion with the West Zone project.
Former golf team member ('01) is the defending US Open champion.
We're a top 25 public university in academics and climbing.
The SC-ICAR program is creating jobs and investments, and is poised to grow significantly.
We replaced a successful basketball coach with one of the nation's top up and comers in Brad Brownell.
Fire the President! Fire the AD! Fire the BOT!
Nonsense.
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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that looks great until you start comparing the number of
May 9, 2010, 12:07 AM
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ACC championships we had in the 80s vs the 90s vs the 2000s. We won more acc championships per year in the 80s & 90s than we did in the last 5 years combined.
you can sugar coat things all you want, but our athletic program is a farce compared to only 10 years ago, compared to 20 or 30 years ago its down right pitiful and pathetic.
we had more ncaa hoops success in the 80s
nice try with the 9 wins in football, but it took us 14 games when 87-90 we went 10-2 4 yrs straight. '77 - '92 we pretty much averaged 9 wins a year. this past year we were 8-4 during the regular season, which is really 7-4, with the recent addition of a 12th game we play an extra cupcake, thus an 8-4 record. do you think 7-4 is a good season? me either. we only got 9 wins because we had 12 games and won against that football power kentucky in our bowl game. we were 9-5 on the year, versus 10-2 often in the 80s.
oh yea how bout that awesome soccer program, not!
god you people kill me.
fyi, until the recent facilities improvements we were almost dead last in the acc because we let everyone pass us, and over the last 5 to 10 years wake and duke spent more on football than we did. think about that and get back to me
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Legend [16264]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12790
Joined: 11/14/09
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I miss Danny Ford as much as anyone...
May 10, 2010, 1:35 AM
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But he's a farmer now, not a coach. A truly great man committed to Clemson.
I wonder, though, were you calling for the president's head back when they first hired Ford, this young guy with no head coaching experience to take over for Pell, who BTW led both Clemson and Florida into probation? Yes, we had wins, but that was a steep price to pay. I would choose never to go there again for any reason.
I agree that TB's orange parachute was a mistake. Anyone who saw him pull Reggie Merriweather out of the game on that last drive against USC on 1st and goal should have known this guy would never be a reliable college coach. He just didn't get it. I was thrilled with the idea of him taking the Arkansas or possibly Texas A&M job when they opened up. We went the wrong direction there, but I have to give kudos to the staff for making a bold mid-season decision when they did, and their choice for the future.
I wouldn't trade Dabo for any coach in the country right now. We may have a future Jo Pa on our hands. Who knows. I suspect his record was as good as Ford's at this point. If anything, THAT HIRE ALONE speaks of our proud tradition.
What about Cliff Ellis, leader of the 80's glory years in basketball? His resume prior to Clemson looks suspiciously familiar to one Brad Brownell. And Oliver Purnell. If OP had taught Booker how to better handle the ball down low I believe we'd had more success than we did. But that's somehow representative of a leadership vacuum in the administration?
State funding for our colleges sucks. I believe it's gotten worse under Gov. Sanford, though we have responded by ratcheting up private investment dollars.
All this being said, if it is proven that Barker cheated on numbers for rankings and has been manipulating funds inappropriately, then I would certainly be in favor of removing him, without question.
As far as athletics are concerned, I just don't buy into your negativity here. Not at all. Teams will cycle through good and bad. Barker and TDP at this point are holding truer to tradition and form with recent hires and decisions.
I hope the new soccer meets with your approval. Really awful what he did with Brown during all those years.
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