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Orange Blooded [2368]
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Let
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Jul 29, 2007, 9:52 AM
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Orange Blooded [2368]
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Oops, I'll try again.. If this is TB's last year,
Jul 29, 2007, 9:54 AM
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how many people think Bobby Johnson (Vandy's coach and former tiger DB) will be the next coach at Clemson?
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Orange Blooded [2368]
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By the way, I would much prefer us to have an amazing year
Jul 29, 2007, 9:55 AM
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and TB remain as our coach, but I have a bad feeling this is not going to be the case.
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All-TigerNet [13898]
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Heck no!! I want someone with a a better track record.
Jul 29, 2007, 9:59 AM
[ in reply to Oops, I'll try again.. If this is TB's last year, ] |
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Kind of like what Florida did in hiring Urban Meyer. Who that coach is I have no idea but I don't want a current head coach that hasn't been anything short of unbelievable. If they aren't available then I'll take an impressive assistant coach with potential. That said, I think this will be TB's break out season and any discussion like this will be a moot point.
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Orange Blooded [2368]
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He took Furman to the National title game a few years ago
Jul 29, 2007, 10:19 AM
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and has been Vandy's coach the last 2 (they're still Vandy). I don't know who this Urban Meyer type guy might be, but I hear where you are coming from. Just don't know if that's realistic given our current administration - - unlikely to spend the kind of money necessary to get an Urban-like guy and pay-off TB's contract at the same time.
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All-TigerNet [11161]
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i must have missed something
Jul 29, 2007, 10:21 AM
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Tommy Bowden is still listed as head coach.
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Orange Blooded [2368]
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You are correct, and I hope it remains that way,
Jul 29, 2007, 10:29 AM
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because it means we are doing well on the field. I personally like TB, but at some point we need to show some progress in terms of our W-L.
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All-In [34823]
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I think even TB's supporters, like me, would agree with you.
Jul 29, 2007, 11:03 AM
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No one is 'thrilled' or 'happy' about the Tiger football team's showing the last few years, but the talent has moved up a couple of notches now.
The slumps, either after close losses or a key injury, seem to be the Achilles' heel of TB's staff. Somehow, I think either the coaches deflate and it gets reflected in the team's play, or the coaches are unable to get the motivation back after a setback.
Not even the best coaches can do it every time, but the indifferent play during [ortions of the last few seasons has got to be corrected.
Message was edited by: mumbo78®
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All-TigerNet [13898]
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It could be Rich Rod which is why he turned down Bama or
Jul 29, 2007, 10:23 AM
[ in reply to He took Furman to the National title game a few years ago ] |
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it could be Gary Patterson at TCU. I say go after Coach Rod and if he doesn't have the interest turn to a great recruiter and really strong coordinator that is out there.
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110%er [6106]
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Lateral move for him.
Jul 29, 2007, 1:31 PM
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W. Virginia could match whatever $ we could offer. It's a lot easier to win a NC at W Viringia because of their schedule. I seriously doubt he would leave his alma mater for CU
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null [4419]
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All-TigerNet [12269]
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Do you folks who are commonly referred to as the MOT keep
Jul 29, 2007, 11:00 AM
[ in reply to Oops, I'll try again.. If this is TB's last year, ] |
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making these posts to subvert our coaches and their recruiting efforts? These posts just help the gamecock press in South Carolina keep the hotseat talk alive and well. Holtz was imploding in COlumbia yet never any of that talk. This makes great stuff for opposing recruiters to point recruits towards.
BTW- MOT-Morons of Tigernet.
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All-In [34823]
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I'll point you, but I think this is the year that things
Jul 29, 2007, 11:06 AM
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have to pick up on the field. I completely agree about your comments on Holtz. It was amazing to me to see them roast TB, and let Louser off the hook for performances like they turned in.
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All-TigerNet [12269]
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Div 1 fb is HIGHLY competitive to the degree that most folks
Jul 29, 2007, 11:16 AM
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on here cannot even comprehend. TB has had us pretty consistently in what I guess is about the top 35 out of 119 teams. He started with very little talent and has constantly upgraded since he arrived. Our talent is better now than it has been since Danny Ford vacated the job. We have had some horrible losses but many more great wins with TB. THe program is a credit to the University and everything it represents right now. We were loaded last year and ended up having horrid injuries at LB and an apparent loss of confidence in our passing game and we slipped hard.
I think we need to let this incredible staff continue the trend upward in talent that will eventually pay off big. IS '07 the year? WHo knows? WIll Davis and SPiller break legs? Will a new qb play well? There is much randomness in pulling off a fantastic year. What if the official standing right next to Kavell Connor had called the obvious block in the back the resulted in a kickoff return for a TD? What if USC Had not gotten "the stop" or been flagged for twisting CJ"s ankle (check the film, gamecacks!) What if Anthony Waters had not had a freaky injury? What if Billie had not broken his ankle? DId any of these occurances reflect poorly on TB?
HOw many steps back should we take to try another guy who may or may not be up to the job or how many millions should we payout that we don't have to get a big "name" guy?
I think the obvious answer is for CLemson fans to rally around the program and be fiercely loyal like they once were and quit acting like unrealistic whiney punks. Most Clemson fans are fine but a vocal minority on message boards keeps the fire burning much to the delight of everyone who worships at the throne of SPurrier and Tommy Suggs!
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All-In [34823]
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Heh, the injuries WERE tough. But, like the manager said to
Jul 29, 2007, 11:20 AM
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the pitcher that he was removing from the game after 4 straight bloop or ground-ball bouncers through the hole, "I know you're not pitching bad, son. I just need somebody luckier."
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Rock Defender [54]
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CU Guru [1118]
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Prove it.***
Jul 29, 2007, 1:48 PM
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Orange Blooded [3909]
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Gosh, we really do need your blessing.
Jul 29, 2007, 2:09 PM
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LOL.
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CU Guru [1118]
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Guess you missed the sarcasm and/or
Jul 29, 2007, 3:24 PM
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Tooka's post history.
LOL
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Rock Defender [54]
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What's so funny about being in the top 25? Envy is not a
Jul 29, 2007, 5:56 PM
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good thing, clASSof09. Neither is your mental imbalance.
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null [4419]
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I agree to a certain extent, but you know what would end
Jul 29, 2007, 11:15 AM
[ in reply to Do you folks who are commonly referred to as the MOT keep ] |
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all of this talk?
Win the Godd@mn games we're supposed to and not be known as a early, mid, late-season flop team. It ain't the fault of Clemson fans on a message board that the majority of the media sources mention TB and "hot seat" in the same sentence. With that said, I hope TB proves A LOT of people wrong.
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All-TigerNet [12269]
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Re: I agree to a certain extent, but you know what would end
Jul 29, 2007, 11:21 AM
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The big problem that I see in the logic of many fans is that we "should" always beat Maryland or NC State or VIrginia. THese schools have good coaches, money and athletes and the 85 ship limit has mandated a fairly even playing field. Kentucky sucked and we gave them the bowl game (why no more CJS, I will never know) yet they beat Georgia. Vandy almost beat UF. Look waht BOise did to OU! THe margin of error is very very small. TB is moving ahead with talent and is running a great program. Let's not get all full of ourselves and cut off our noses to spite our face. As much as some would like to say it is true, we are not MIchigan. We can play with Michigan but we are simply not Michigan.
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null [4419]
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Very true. My main point is that fans on a message board
Jul 29, 2007, 11:24 AM
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didn't put TB on the hot seat. He did it all by himself.
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All-TigerNet [12269]
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Re: Very true. My main point is that fans on a message board
Jul 29, 2007, 11:27 AM
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NO- the stadium is still full and we have been solid, just not great. Who do you think starts this talk? Impatient unrealistic fans who use Clemson Football as something they can identify with to make up for their own shortcomings?
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Legend [18133]
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Exactly***
Jul 29, 2007, 11:32 AM
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null [4419]
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LOL, Lumbee, are you serious?
Jul 29, 2007, 11:33 AM
[ in reply to Re: Very true. My main point is that fans on a message board ] |
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Yeah, sportswriters mention TB and hot seat together because of what fans say on a message board. I'd like to give them more credit than that. I don't think the fans that mention TB's shortcomings as a coach are pulling less for him to succeed than the ones that feel pumping sunshine 24/7 makes them a better fan.
Like I said, hopefully there will be a lot of people eating crow at the end of the season.
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Legend [18133]
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Re: LOL, Lumbee, are you serious?
Jul 29, 2007, 11:34 AM
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So, why do they MENTION the message boards in PRINT?
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null [4419]
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So, you take away the message boards and sportswriters
Jul 29, 2007, 11:38 AM
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will not know if a coach is on the hot seat or not. Sure, the message boards give them a feel of a fanbase (to an extent), but it ain't their main tool for judging how a coach is doing, how the fans feel, etc....
At least I hope not.
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Legend [18133]
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I'm beginning to wonder about your intelligence.
Jul 29, 2007, 11:40 AM
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They make a difference in the perception of hotseat, or not. That's all I'm saying. Quit trying to put words into my mouth.
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null [4419]
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Wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. What did
Jul 29, 2007, 11:43 AM
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sportswriters do before the internet? Were there no coaches ever on the hot seat?
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Legend [18133]
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Again, you miss the point entirely. The talk is about TB
Jul 29, 2007, 11:49 AM
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and whether this message board makes any difference. I say it does, as evidenced by the sportswriters mention of the boards.
I'm really tired of this, now. Say what you want, just don't try to talk for me.
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null [4419]
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LOL......Answer this: Does a message board put a coach
Jul 29, 2007, 11:54 AM
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on the hot seat or even (gasp) help get him fired?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Message boards represent a cross section of a fanbase.
Jul 29, 2007, 1:07 PM
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Writers read message boards and quite frequently reference them when writing articles. So yeah, what's said on message boards helps to paint the image that writers write about.
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Die-Hard [8977]
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It could...
Jul 29, 2007, 1:08 PM
[ in reply to LOL......Answer this: Does a message board put a coach ] |
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message boards weren't common during the Hatfield era, but the same kinds to things that are said on here were acted on by the fans and that DID play a role in his dismissal.
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Legend [18133]
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Re: I agree to a certain extent, but you know what would end
Jul 29, 2007, 11:22 AM
[ in reply to I agree to a certain extent, but you know what would end ] |
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Actually, I've seen message boards cited in many an article about TB's popularity/security. It is a factor. People really should shut up about wanting a new coach. If TB were ever let go, then speculate about who we'd get. TB is the man and every tiger who dons the orange deserves our unquestioned support.
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null [4419]
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I agree. Didn't say I wanted a new coach.***
Jul 29, 2007, 11:25 AM
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Legend [18133]
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Re: I agree. Didn't say I wanted a new coach.***
Jul 29, 2007, 11:29 AM
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That's cool. I was commenting on the fact that message boards do fuel the hotseat talk. There should be none of it here, imo. I'm not saying you have to be thrilled with the results. I'm just saying that as long as TB is our coach, we should be supportive and positive.
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null [4419]
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Believe it or not, I would venture to say 99% of us
Jul 29, 2007, 11:34 AM
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are supportive of TB. Some just recognize the good AND the bad.
And not recognizing the "bad" doesn't make you a better fan.
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CU Guru [1218]
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Re: What does pointing out the bad do for you?
Jul 29, 2007, 11:36 AM
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Is it a personal thing or do you thing some of us don't realize it when we see something bad?
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null [4419]
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Personally, I don't go outta my way to point out the "bad."
Jul 29, 2007, 11:40 AM
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I do when certain peple point out statistics, that IMO, don't mean sh*t unless you've either played or won a conference title in the past 9 years.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Lots of good teams haven't played for conference titles in
Jul 29, 2007, 1:09 PM
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the last 9 years. But even considering titles, Clemson ends up in the top 25 of all 1-A programs.
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CU Guru [1118]
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You don't say!***
Jul 29, 2007, 1:49 PM
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Legend [18133]
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Dude, you are the champion of reading things that are
Jul 29, 2007, 11:38 AM
[ in reply to Believe it or not, I would venture to say 99% of us ] |
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not there. What are you, a flamer? I never said I was a better fan, or that you don't love Clemson, or that you don't want TB to win.
I was talking about your comment that message boards don't matter. THAT'S ALL.
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null [4419]
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Sorry, when I said "you," wasn't talking about you
Jul 29, 2007, 11:41 AM
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personally.
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All-TigerNet [12269]
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Don't fool yourself:
Jul 29, 2007, 11:45 AM
[ in reply to Believe it or not, I would venture to say 99% of us ] |
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I see stuff that I don't like sometimes like Spiller not getting more carries in the mistake bowl but I recognize that blabbering on and on about our head coaches job does no good and can cause harm. Young impressionable kids read message boards. Coaches mention the effects of message boards on recruiting in interviews all the time. Why do a few loudmouth fans who like to complain just do it in private rather than in a public forum? If your kids act up, do you go tell your friends how rotten they are? If your wife puts on a few lbs, do you to speculate to the public about how you might pull the plug on her if she does not shape up?
If you really feel that your beefs deserve airing, be a man and air them with TB, TDP and President Barker. Go see them or when you right them, give them your name (real name) address and phone number!
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null [4419]
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If you go back, you'll see that I simply responded to
Jul 29, 2007, 11:51 AM
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a post; not necessarily ranting ang raving about TB. Now, If I was asking for him to be fired, said I hate the guy, he's bad for Clemson, etc.....I could see your point. But, trying to have a cival conversation about why he's continuously mentioned as being on the hot seat, isn't a bad thing.
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All-TigerNet [12269]
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Re: If you go back, you'll see that I simply responded to
Jul 29, 2007, 11:53 AM
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whatever- I'm done- btw, did you graduate from Clemson? just curious
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null [4419]
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Nope, got accepted but pursued a baseball schollie at
Jul 29, 2007, 11:55 AM
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Coastal Carolina. Doesn't make me less of a fan though.
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Die-Hard [8977]
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Yeah, it does...
Jul 29, 2007, 1:13 PM
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People that attended (or even graduated from) Clemson are more important than people that never set foot in a Clemson classroom.
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null [4419]
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Okay, how about making that post at the
Jul 29, 2007, 2:16 PM
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top of the Board and see what people say.
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Legend [18133]
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Re: Oops, I'll try again.. If this is TB's last year,
Jul 29, 2007, 11:11 AM
[ in reply to Oops, I'll try again.. If this is TB's last year, ] |
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Dude, TB is the coach now and for the loooooooooong-term future. He's the man and is about to git 'r done in a big way. ACC championship game this year vs. VT. Not going to say who wins. Need to see how the team progresses throughout the season.
The only factors missing last year were consistent QB play and special teams. Those get fixed this year and we win the Atlantic. TB is solid and never looks back.
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Fan [54]
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Re: Oops, I'll try again.. If this is TB's last year,
Jul 29, 2007, 11:19 AM
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If you get a chance talk to some recent grads who played for him. They loved him as a man but question his coaching decisions.
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Legend [18133]
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Re: Oops, I'll try again.. If this is TB's last year,
Jul 29, 2007, 11:24 AM
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You know what? I questioned his decision to pull RM on the final drive against SCar. I also screamed for Harper to get a chance at VT and in every game thereafter. Still, TB is the man, deserves our support, and that is where I stand.
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110%er [6034]
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The hot seat should be for a coach that fell from 5-3 to 3-5
Jul 29, 2007, 11:16 AM
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in the conference.
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Fan [54]
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Re: On Holtz
Jul 29, 2007, 11:33 AM
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You have to remember we won a national championship and have been a consistent top team in past years, they have never been there so the bar is lower for what they call success.
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All-American [580]
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There's a huge difference between being in the 2nd year of
Jul 29, 2007, 11:44 AM
[ in reply to The hot seat should be for a coach that fell from 5-3 to 3-5 ] |
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your program and the 8th year of your program. This will be Spurrier's 3rd year at Carolina. By the 3rd year, the majority of the players, mostly underclassmen though, are your recruits, players recruited to play your style of football. Of course, it's better to have a team made up of ALL your recruits. But that does not happen until Year 5 of your program.
I think part of Bowden's problem also is a result of national media coming out with lists like Sports Illustrated listing Tommy Bowden among the 5 worst coaches in the nation.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Both Bowden and Holtz did better in their second years
Jul 29, 2007, 1:13 PM
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than did Spurrier.
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CU Guru [1118]
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Ahh yes, Bowden's 2nd year...
Jul 29, 2007, 2:02 PM
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Weren't you like 8-0 only to lose 3 out of the last 4 and blow any chance of an ACC Championship and/or BCS game? Hmmm, sounds familiar...
It was amazing what happened to Tommy when he had to play good teams that year. Let's see..
Citadel (who cares what their record was) W
Missouri (3-8) W
Wake Forest (2-9) W
Virginia (6-6) W
Duke (0-11) W
NC State (8-4) W
Maryland (5-6) W
UNC (6-5) W
So he has 1 decent win against a team with 8+ wins, right?
Now let's look at how he finished...
Georgia Tech (9-3) L
FSU (11-2) L
USC (8-4) W
VT (11-1) L
Clemson got outscored the last 4 games by a total of 140-71. They picked up another decent win against USC, but hey, Spurrier had 2 wins against 8-win teams too this past season. Hey, at least Bowden didn't lose to any worse teams that year.
Now I guess the question is, Will Spurrier's team win 2 less games in his 3rd year than his 2nd year, like Bowden's team did?
Message was edited by: RPE930®
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Rock Defender [54]
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clASSof09, please use one handle per thread.
Jul 29, 2007, 5:54 PM
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In 2000, Clemson finished 16th in the AP and 14th in the Coaches Poll. That's better than Spurrier's been ranked at any point at USC. In fact, he was ranked only ONE week in 2 years. He promptly lost his next two games to Clemson and Missouri, and that was that.
Holtz finished 19th and 21st in his second. Again, higher than any point since Spurrier's been at USC.
Holtz inherited a 1-10 team. Bowden inherited a 3-8 team.
Spurrier inherited a 6-5 team.
Like I said, both Bowden and Holtz did better in their second years than did Spurrier.
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All-American [580]
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Re: clASSof09, please use one handle per thread.
Jul 29, 2007, 9:29 PM
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Spurrier has a better overall record than Holtz did after two years. Regarding Bowden, again Sporting News THIS YEAR lists him as the 47th BCS coach in the nation. They list Spurrier among the Top 10. And as you know, SI lists Bowden among the worst 5 coaches in the nation. Keep Bowden. Carolina will gladly keep SOS.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Not too smart huh?
Jul 30, 2007, 11:17 AM
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"Spurrier has a better overall record than Holtz did after two years."
So what? Holtz took over a floundering program that just came off of 1-10. Sure, he went 0-11 in his first year but that just adds to the accomplishment of finishing in the top 25 his second year. That's obviously something Spurrier hasn't done in spite of inheriting a team with Blake Mitchell, Sidney Rice, Ko Simpson, Fred Bennett, Cory Boyd and many others.
"Regarding Bowden, again Sporting News THIS YEAR lists him as the 47th BCS coach in the nation."
Who cares about the opinion? Bowden's teams are 24th in the country since 2000. And besides, we're talking about respective second years where Bowden finished in the top 15, Holtz was in the top 25, and Spurrier was N/R. Pretty clear comparison of real data... not opinion.
You said the same thing about Holtz
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All-American [580]
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LOL
Jul 30, 2007, 2:40 PM
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By the way, I don't open "T-Mails". LOL
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Rock Defender [54]
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LOL
Jul 31, 2007, 2:38 PM
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You're a joke. LOL
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All-American [580]
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Unlike Bowden, SOS has a track record of consistent success,
Jul 29, 2007, 3:13 PM
[ in reply to Both Bowden and Holtz did better in their second years ] |
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upward momentum and progress over the long-term. Bowden has not shown that. That's why Tommy Bowden is on the hot seat with his job on the line.
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110%er [5696]
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Signed, Dan Snyder.***
Jul 29, 2007, 3:14 PM
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All-American [580]
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And Pete Carroll, Rich Brooks, Lon Kruger, Pitino, etc
Jul 29, 2007, 3:20 PM
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The pros are a different animal.
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Expert [1248]
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we get it, spurrier is God, and we're very scared of yall.****
Jul 29, 2007, 3:20 PM
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All-American [580]
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No, just looking forward to this season.***
Jul 29, 2007, 3:22 PM
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***
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Expert [1248]
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All-American [580]
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LOL... what a response...LOL
Jul 29, 2007, 3:18 PM
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***
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Expert [1248]
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dude, i thought it was pretty ingenius.****
Jul 29, 2007, 3:18 PM
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All-American [580]
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LOL
Jul 29, 2007, 3:20 PM
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LOL
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Rock Defender [54]
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All-American [580]
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Being rated among the Top 10 BCS coaches in the nation
Jul 29, 2007, 8:05 PM
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by Sporting News definitely speaks loud and clear. And to put that in perspective, Tommy Bowden was rated number 47.
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All-TigerNet [11161]
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oh woe is us
Jul 29, 2007, 8:07 PM
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our supposed #47 is a missed FG from potentially being 2-0 vs God but is still 1-1.
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All-American [580]
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LOL
Jul 29, 2007, 8:28 PM
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Give TB a contract extension. He's deserving. Right?
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All-TigerNet [11161]
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I'll tell you what...
Jul 29, 2007, 8:29 PM
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here it takes more than 7 wins (3 in conference) to get a raise.
but we have standards. . .
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All-American [580]
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LOL
Jul 29, 2007, 8:31 PM
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Rrrrriiiigggghhhhhttttt. LOL
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Rock Defender [54]
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So how does that effect not being ranked in 2 years?
Jul 30, 2007, 11:24 AM
[ in reply to Being rated among the Top 10 BCS coaches in the nation ] |
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Bowden was top 15 and Holtz was top 25 in their second years. Spurrier hasn't been ranked yet. You can have the Sporting News opinions, I'll take the rankings.
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All-American [580]
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Re: So how does that effect not being ranked in 2 years?
Jul 30, 2007, 2:41 PM
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LOL. You keep Bowden. We will gladly keep Spurrier. Deal or no deal?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Absolutely.
Jul 30, 2007, 5:50 PM
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Just FYI, you said EXACTLY the same thing with Lou Holtz.
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110%er [5093]
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Have to look at conferences in Context
Jul 29, 2007, 11:50 AM
[ in reply to The hot seat should be for a coach that fell from 5-3 to 3-5 ] |
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Do you think Clemson would have beaten UGA, UT, UF, Auburn, or Arkansas? We know you lost to UK so if you were in our position you guys likely would have been 2-6 in the SEC.
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All-TigerNet [12269]
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YOu are full of #####- enjoy the 3-8 that's coming for your
Jul 29, 2007, 11:52 AM
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cacks
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All-American [580]
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That would help Tommy Bowden from not being fired.
Jul 29, 2007, 12:02 PM
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The worst thing to happen to Tommy Bowden would be for Spurrier and Carolina to win 9 games this season while clemson falls back to 7.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Well since we're playing make believe
Jul 29, 2007, 1:16 PM
[ in reply to Have to look at conferences in Context ] |
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You would've lost to FSU, GT, VT, BC, Wake, and possibly Maryland and/or NC State. Looks like you would've went 1-7 or 2-6 in the ACC. You might have beaten UNC last year.
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110%er [5093]
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The difference is you and I both know
Jul 29, 2007, 2:06 PM
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Carolina would not have gone 1-7 last year in the ACC. Thats just wishful thinking, the 2-6 on the other hand isn't.
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Expert [1248]
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the point is you are a flaming troll
Jul 29, 2007, 2:07 PM
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who has nothing better to do than to contradict and antagonize people on your rival's board on a daily basis. i mean really....
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110%er [5156]
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The problem is both you and the person you're debating
Jul 29, 2007, 2:11 PM
[ in reply to The difference is you and I both know ] |
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are making tons of assumptions.
Yes, we lost to Kentucky and Carolina. IF that was all you went by, it might be reasonable to suggest that we would go 2-6.
But anyone who is honest knows we were a totally different team the second half of the year.
We were decimated by injuries, our passing game went to crap, and our QB became a headcase.
By saying we would go 2-6, based solely off of the two games you mention, you would have to assume many things.
The HONEST answer here is, nobody has any clue how Carolina would have done in the ACC, or Clemson in the SEC.
It depends on what the conference schedule would have looked like, whether or not the same injuries would have occured, and if the team mindsets would have been the same.
To base an entire season off of a three point loss to Carolina, or an 8 point loss to Kentucky in a bowl game we didn't even want to be in, is foolish.
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110%er [5093]
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Fair enough
Jul 29, 2007, 2:15 PM
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but then again where you a different team the second half of the season or did you run into better coached teams in the second half?
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110%er [5156]
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I don't think Maryland or NC State
Jul 29, 2007, 2:17 PM
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or even Kenctucky were better teams.
And we struggled against them all.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Rock Defender [54]
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