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Legend [16186]
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Why I don't EVER want to be in the SEC or any other league.
Jul 16, 2011, 3:05 PM
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1. I like who we are. We have been playing ACC schools since the early 1950s and have great rivalries with most of the teams. Because we've won the league more than most, and because we've been the big boy on the block most of the time, we are a big game on the schedule of almost every one of our opponents. We matter to them.
(Contrast that with the teams who have switched leagues. No one in the Big Ten gives a crap about Penn State. No one in the SEC gives a crap about Arkanasas. Those teams could evaporate tomorrow and almost no one on their schedule would give a ####. Look at SC. Every one of their games in the league are almost a no never mind to their opponents. Who thinks Nebraska will matter to any of her new big ten opponents? The won't. The huskers walked away from their natural rivals to be the perpetual game no one really cares about.)
2. Our away games offer great road trips. FSU offers a big stadium, against a traditionally great team. GT offers Atlanta. BC offers Boston. Maryland offers Washington. Miami offers Miami. You want to make a long weekend out of a game trip, enjoy some local color and have a good time with the wife and a couple of couples? Our road games offer that in spades. You want the perfect college venue, at a real school with tradition, and a nice campus? We got that at the most of the other ACC schools. And, many of our traditional rivals are right down the road. It's an easy day trip for us to away games at 7 of the teams in our league.
(Contrast that with the endless drive from the east coast to the Mississippi River and the central time zone. Contrast our away game venues with Starkville, Gainsville, nowhere Kentucy, or Fayetteville? You EVER hear of someone talking about the good time they had in those nowherevilles? Switching makes NO sense for a fan of the games who goes to the games.)
3. We are a University. We are first tier. We associate with GT, UNC, UVa, Duke, WF, BC. Compare the academics at our place and those in our league with those at Auburn, Alabama, Miss, Miss State, Kentucky, Arkansas, and SC? There is no comparison. Ours is a league of decent universities.
4. There is nothing we cannot win from where we sit today. We can win our league and play in BCS game. We can win the national title, no question. Why would we want to change?
5. Our home games have big crowds in arguably the best stadium in America. Fans who visit our place rave about
the ambiance. We don't need someone else to buy our tickets. No one in America has a better home game setting or home game experience than Clemson. Ask the Gameday guys. We don't need anything from anybody to improve our football Saturdays.
People at Clemson who really really want to be in the SEC are usually guys who foolishly want to be like SC. Those fellows grew up listening to Tommy Suggs and ole what's his hame saying 'sec quality' and they bought it hook line and sinker. The fans who want to change spend too much time watching ESPN and they want to be part of that TV networks pet league.
The games are played live. Go see'em.
Harley
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110%er [6937]
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Re: Right on brother.***
Jul 16, 2011, 3:19 PM
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Orange Blooded [3169]
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Amen!
Jul 16, 2011, 3:20 PM
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Finally, a realistic viewpoint.
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Legend [16070]
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The ONLY reason to leave is for money and to...
Jul 16, 2011, 3:26 PM
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Be in a league who is more football minded like we are. Having said that, I think the only reason Clemson fans (And GT and FSU) hate on the SEC is because its thrown in our faces so much by our rivals. I don't hate it, i just think its sometimes overrated, used as a crutch, and dirty (there's no doubt how rampant the cheating is in the SEC).
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Die-Hard [8977]
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Money will be less of an issue...
Jul 16, 2011, 3:44 PM
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when the ACC's new TV deal takes effect this fall. You'll also see more ACC baseball on ESPN because that's part of the deal. One reason I hope the NBA doesn't come back from its lockout before the season is that that will open up time slots on ESPN usually taken up by the NBA for other things, like college baseball.
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110%er [5298]
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Re: Money will be less of an issue...
Jul 16, 2011, 3:47 PM
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Is money not still going to be an issue relative to the other conferences even after this deal takes affect? From my understanding we are next to last to last, with only the big east behind us, even after this deal takes affect.
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Die-Hard [8977]
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Not when you figure...
Jul 16, 2011, 3:54 PM
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that the SEC would be splitting its TV money at least 14 ways (there's no way they only add one team). When you add in the increased travel costs incurred by going to places like Fayetteville, Baton Rouge, Starkville, and others I really don't think the money difference would be enough to matter. I know that many Clemson fans want to be in the SEC because they feel like it's the better football conference and that's really all they care about, but there are very few rational advantages to changing leagues. The biggest reason to change leagues is emotional.
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110%er [5298]
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Re: Not when you figure...
Jul 16, 2011, 4:00 PM
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But shouldn't you also consider that if the SEC did expand it would be to renegotiate a new deal, which would then put them back at the number 1 spot? There is no way I could see them expanding if they couldn't renegotiate their contract. Also, I don't necessarily want to be in the SEC, I am just sick of the ACC and the way we get treated here. Girdle gate, the Duke clock fiasco, the extra year of probation, the BS holding calls against GT twice in a row, 0-forever at Chapel Hill, and I could go on forever, have completely convinced me that the ACC does not have Clemson's best interest at heart. My personal preference would be for the teams not in NC to split and create and East and West league with some of the big 12 teams.
Looking like East: Clemson, VT, GT, FSU, Miami, Virginia
West: aTm, Mizzou, Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas Tech, Okie State.
Like I said, I'm not a huge SEC fan, I am just sick of the ACC.
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CU Guru [1243]
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With a 14 team league, the SEC would renegotiate their tv
Jul 16, 2011, 3:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: Money will be less of an issue... ] |
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contract for even more money- especially after the recent Pac 12 deal.
Not saying SEC expansion is happening. But if it did, the league would be back sitting down with the tv folks for more money.
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Enthusiast [127]
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Re: Why I don't EVER want to be in the SEC or any other league.
Jul 16, 2011, 3:28 PM
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I think it's helpful to remember the history of the programs we associate ourselves with. The ACC is weak today but has too many historically excellent teams to stay weak for long. The SEC was similarly weak through the 80's and 90's with only 1 or 2 competitive teams each season.
How can the ACC stay down forever with Miami, the team of the 80's and early 00's, FSU, the team of the 90's, Clemson, one of the most resilient fanbases in the ocuntry, VT, the most consistently well coached team in the country, GT, the former crown jewel of the SEC, Maryland, one of the richest programs in the country (Underarmour will be like Nike to Oregon this decade), and UNC, one of the largest defensive producers in the country?
The ACC has a problem with the coaching talent level. Every program is taking steps to alleviate that issue. The SEC will always have more storied programs but to think the ACC is without any future hope is to be shortsighted.
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Oculus Spirit [83146]
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Nice post and I agree totally other than the part about
Jul 16, 2011, 3:31 PM
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Nebraska because that will be a great game especially on the road for all Big Ten schools to one of the best venues in college football, nor do I agree with the put down of SEC road games.
The SEC offers great road games wrought with tradition like Uf, Bama, LSU, AU, UGA, UT, and Ole Miss. I agree with your assessment of UMD, Miami, GT, and BC, but we have some losers too like State, Wake, and Duke.
The ACC is better for us overall for sure.
Message was edited by: josephg®
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CU Guru [1243]
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I think a ton of Clemson fans would love it- especially
Jul 16, 2011, 3:57 PM
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younger fans. It would take getting use to - but eventually it would feel right.
In football, games with Bama, Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, etc are simply incredible. Visiting these places for fall Saturdays would be an amazing treat for Clemson fans every single away game. Heck, even Kentucky takes football pretty seriously and they put in 70,000 for home games. There are few places more fun than going to kentucky in say October for a football game. Great setting, beautiful area to tour, and a very nice stadium.
When South Carolina joined the league, I went to tons of away games. Of course we lost a ton of them and still lose way too many of them, but seeing these places on Saturdays was - and still is- an awesome experience.
Being in Knoxville, or Baton Rouge, or Tuscaloosa the night before game is as good as it gets for a visiting fan. Restaurants are packed with fans dressed in their colors and the game the next day is the topic of the entire town, newspaper, local tv stations, etc.
Basketball would be the let down. Except for Kentucky, and say a Miss State or Florida, the excitement level wouldn't be as high. But Clemson would probably be able to compete very well for league titles in the SEC much more often than in the ACC.
Baseball would be outstanding as well. Not taking anything away from ACC baseball because teams like FSU, UNC, UVA, and Ga Tech are very tough - but you'd have some fun watching Clemson take on an LSU, or Florida, or Vanderbilt - and the South Carolina series would be even bigger.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: What is so wonderful about Baton Rouge ,Tuscaloosa.
Jul 16, 2011, 4:53 PM
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Starkville and Oxford? if going for the crowd, you might as well go to Gatlinburg.. The trip to Knoxville, in the fall of the year would be ok. Those other places would be like visiting Columbia.
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Oculus Spirit [83146]
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Re: What is so wonderful about Baton Rouge ,Tuscaloosa.
Jul 16, 2011, 4:55 PM
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LOL
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CU Guru [1243]
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I'll tell you what is great about it -
Jul 16, 2011, 5:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: What is so wonderful about Baton Rouge ,Tuscaloosa. ] |
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football fans.
If you enjoy interacting with other football fans and talking about college football in general - or seeing the game your team is involved in as the biggest thing going on in that city that entire weekend- then games at Baton Rouge, Tuscaloose, Knoxville, etc are great.
and you've obviously never been to a game at Ole Miss on a Fall Saturday if you even mention them in your post. What a terrific place to be on a Saturday in football season.
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110%er [6937]
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Re:If the good Lord was going to give the USA an
Jul 16, 2011, 5:34 PM
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edema, he would stick the tube in Ms.
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CU Guru [1243]
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Re:If the good Lord was going to give the USA an
Jul 16, 2011, 5:47 PM
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I don't disagree.
But a trip to Miss State for a football game is a lot of fun.
Great tailgating- and more importantly- a lot of fans that care about football.
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All-American [581]
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Oculus Spirit [83146]
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CU Guru [1243]
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Re: I agree with that. I think the ACC is the best conference
Jul 16, 2011, 5:26 PM
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being good academically is great for alums when talking about conferences- at least somewhat...
but I don't think I've ever went to an away game and really spent much time with my buddies or my family talking about the academics of the particular school we are visiting to any great extent.
We are going to enjoy the food, interact with the other fans, hopefully see the other town some, and then see how the local media is covering our own team and what they say have to say about us.
I am not really trying to sell the SEC on anyone. But when it comes to sports and football especially - it's pretty darn sweet visiting some of these stadiums and schools in football season.
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Orange Blooded [2303]
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Re: Why I don't EVER want to be in the SEC or any other league.
Jul 16, 2011, 4:05 PM
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EXACTLY
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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You are full of crap and here's why
Jul 16, 2011, 4:35 PM
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Our road trips suck. We go to mid tier cities with little to do and their are few who care about fb. SEC road trips are closer, too. They know how to tailgate, too. Maryland? it sucks. Wake? What a great venue that is. Duke, too.
Bowl games. Run of the mill SEC teams get new yrs day games in Fla. How many times have we beaten usuc then they go to Tampa in Jan while we go to Nashville or somesuch.
Home games. Our opponents, the best ones, bring maybe 5k. Run of the mill SEC teams bring 10 to 20k.
Your point about conferences caring about the newbies is due to one thing, winning. SEC cares only a bit about Ark, or usuc for that matter, b/c Ark and usuc haven't won much.
FSU is a relative newbie to the ACC, do we care when they come to town? Miami and VT, too.
If Neb rolls through the Big 10 like a tornadoe through Kansas, the big 10 will care a lot about Neb.
TDP and Barker should walk nekkid to Birmingham to get into the SEC. Heck, if usuc can go 4-4, we can go 5-3.
Plus, we are now recruiting at the level of UF, Bama, Uga, etc anyway.
Plus, nowadays our basketball team would wreak havoc in the SEC. And we might not have to play against 8 in certain tobacco road towns.
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110%er [6937]
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Re I see that you go to games to be seen and count fans
Jul 16, 2011, 4:43 PM
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from other schools etc. You might as well go to a county fair, try watching the game next time.
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Head Coach [761]
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Re: You are full of crap and here's why
Jul 16, 2011, 4:47 PM
[ in reply to You are full of crap and here's why ] |
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Agree with you. The logic that, "its the way we have aways did it" does not work for me. There is a better way. Without NC and Duke would be best.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: No you are full of it. Some would say the same bout
Jul 16, 2011, 4:56 PM
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Vandy and Miss. St.
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CU Guru [1243]
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Miss State cares a lot about football - one trip to
Jul 16, 2011, 5:20 PM
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a home game there will show you that.
Plus, Vandy is a great road trip - Nashville is a fun town.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: I haven't lost anything in Ms. it is about as bad as
Jul 16, 2011, 5:25 PM
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most of SC.
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CU Guru [1243]
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Re: I haven't lost anything in Ms. it is about as bad as
Jul 16, 2011, 5:31 PM
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I am not talking about the state.
I am talking about a game at Miss State. The fans care about football there. They take it seriously.
and they should have a very solid team this year because the school has invested a lot of resources in their program.
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110%er [6937]
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Re If I wanted to put up with obnoxious fans, I would drive
Jul 16, 2011, 6:17 PM
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25 miles to Columbia every week.
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CU Guru [1243]
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I don't think you are making it up
Jul 16, 2011, 10:40 PM
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as you go along.
MSU fans obnoxious? How many games have you attended at MSU?
Their fans aren't any more obnoxious than anyone else.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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CU Guru [1243]
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Re: Yea, ringing cow bells is some fanatic fans.***
Jul 18, 2011, 12:19 PM
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I don't think that makes them fanatics.
Going to a few games there reveals them to care a lot about their football at MSU.
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Associate AD [807]
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110%er [6937]
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Re:He studied geography from one of those 19 word bools
Jul 16, 2011, 5:16 PM
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that S Carolina has for their football players to read.
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110%er [6937]
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books***
Jul 16, 2011, 5:17 PM
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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I would gladly exchange Athens for Atl. Boston and MIami
Jul 18, 2011, 2:13 PM
[ in reply to See your travel agent ] |
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have very few people who give a rat's #### that we are there to play football. I hear they have crappy stadiums with little to no tailgating. I wouldn't know, you pretty much have to fly to get there. Miami is only once every 5 yrs anyway.
SEC would give us chances to go to college towns, tailgate with football fans, and have them visit our campus.
Distances are closer for most of the SEC-East schools. Uga is the nearest D1 school to us, and a natural rival.
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Associate AD [807]
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Fine
Jul 18, 2011, 5:29 PM
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Clemson doesn't need to join the SEC to play UGa. I was just commenting on your statement that those 3 places are mid-tier cities with little to do.
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CU Guru [1210]
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Zealot [917]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Why I don't EVER want to be in the SEC or any other league.
Jul 16, 2011, 5:03 PM
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Well if CU fans want to win 9-10 games a year than stay in the ACC because your chances their are much less difficult.And for the record if I were a CU fan Id probably prefer to stay in the ACC because of traditional rivals and close proximity to other conference schools. But if you want the opportunity to beat a #1 ranked team the SEC is where you need to be. It;s like a golf tournament, the SEC is the championship flight and "for now" the ACC is somewhat like the second flight. A whole lot less opportunities to beat a top five ranked team.
Just remember how jacked up your fans will be when AU comes rolling into town this year.And what most weekends would be like in the SEC.Maryland, Duke, NC St, Wake, BC just doesn't cut it. The SEC has it's share of NS. ST'S but it also gives your team a number of chances in the year to make the Yahoo sports front page for a signature "W". It's just a fact but Im listening.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: I won't be anymore jacked up for Auburn than I will
Jul 16, 2011, 5:14 PM
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be for Wofford or S Carolina.
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CU Guru [1243]
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Re: I won't be anymore jacked up for Auburn than I will
Jul 16, 2011, 5:33 PM
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Some won't
but there is a reason Clemson had to stop selling Auburn tickets - because of demand.
It's because Clemson fans want tickets for that game- and Clemson is going to make a lot of money off the thounsands of Auburn fans that are going to be there too.
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Scout Team [194]
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Re: Why I don't EVER want to be in the SEC or any other league.
Jul 16, 2011, 5:06 PM
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May be the best post I have ever read in terms of supporting your point. Very well done.
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Legend [16186]
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A couple of points
Jul 16, 2011, 5:40 PM
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For the life of me, I can't figure out why SC fans have an opinion on this topic. Seems odd. We don't care what you do. Beats me why you care what we do.
Secondly, I think any Clemson fan who complains about Clemson road trips has very likely been on very few Clemson road trips.
I won't try to sell anyone on the virtues of the typical CU road trip. People who have been on a few of them know. People whose entire football watching experience comes from TV are clueless.
Harley
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CU Guru [1243]
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Re: A couple of points
Jul 16, 2011, 5:48 PM
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I've seen several "Gamecocks don't want us in the SEC' posts on here the last few days. That's why I responded.
I'd love it if Clemson was in the SEC.
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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Re: Why I don't EVER want to be in the SEC or any other league.
Jul 16, 2011, 5:45 PM
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if we could somehow break the stranglehold tobacco road has on the acc,i would be all for staying in the acc.i do know that we could start by removing swofford from office.as far as road trips to the sec venues,get them on the schedule,we have uga already on the schedule,we are playing au the next two yrs.i'm like an earlier poster,i have seen the scales tilted toward particular schools for a long time.put a stop to that,and i will be all-in for the acc.
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Legend [16186]
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Tymick, look at this..
Jul 16, 2011, 5:47 PM
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Clemson was 6-7 last year and outdrew SC who had their best season in 30 years. We don't nedd anyone else to sell football tickets for our stadium.
2010 NCAA DIVISION I FBS ATTENDANCE TEAM LEADERS
Rank School G Attendance Average
1. Michigan 7 782,776 111,825
2. Ohio St. 8 842,221 105,278
3. Penn St. 7 729,636 104,234
4. Alabama 7 712,747 101,821
5. Texas 7 704,580 100,654
6. Tennessee 7 698,465 99,781
7. Georgia 6 556,476 92,746
8. LSU 7 649,023 92,718
9. Florida 7 633,579 90,511
10. Auburn 8 688,692 86,087
11. Nebraska 7 599,648 85,664
12. Oklahoma 6 508,426 84,738
13. Texas A&M 7 577,338 82,477
14. Notre Dame 7 565,565 80,795
15. Southern California 6 479,444 79,907
16. Wisconsin 7 559,035 79,862
17. Clemson 7 542,280 77,469
18. South Carolina 7 536,675 76,668
19. Michigan St. 7 514,894 73,556
20. Florida St. 7 498,890 71,270
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CU Guru [1243]
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I'd give you one reason that I think that
Jul 16, 2011, 5:50 PM
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was true
sellout crowd at Clemson.
Sellout crowd at USC would have most likely reversed that position in the rankings.
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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Re: I'd give you one reason that I think that
Jul 16, 2011, 5:55 PM
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death valley only holds what 84,000 that game alone wouldn't tip the scales in our favor.
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CU Guru [1243]
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Re: I'd give you one reason that I think that
Jul 16, 2011, 6:00 PM
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I don't know how much faith to put into those numbers anyway.
USC uses digital scanners for everyone that walks in. Clemson is going to that this year. Unless they counted every single ticket, they are probably giving a good guess. A lot of Clemson's attendance figures are even numbers - 77,000, 74,000, etc.
But it doesn't matter. I really never even tried to make a point about attendance rankings.
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CU Guru [1243]
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but it just isn't about
Jul 16, 2011, 5:58 PM
[ in reply to I'd give you one reason that I think that ] |
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attendance rankings.
Home games against Alabama, LSU, Tennessee, Florida, Georgia, or Arkansas would be very good games.
Arkansas brings a lot of fans for the distance it has to travel.
But the sweet part is visting those cities for those weekends - the tailgating, the entire cities are devoted to those games that weekend - and most roll out the red carpet for visiting fans.
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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Re: but it just isn't about
Jul 16, 2011, 6:06 PM
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that red carpet might be blood from fans of previous visiting fans,if the carpet is at georgia.
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CU Guru [1243]
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Re: but it just isn't about
Jul 16, 2011, 6:08 PM
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true- sometimes they roll out the red carpet - and then stomp on you
but you get my point ... 
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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Re: but it just isn't about
Jul 16, 2011, 6:11 PM
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i was talking about fans getting pelted with various objects (fists and feet included)but i get your point.
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Legend [16186]
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Tiny dissent on the Georgia games
Jul 16, 2011, 7:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: but it just isn't about ] |
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Georgia should be a natural rival for Clemson. The schools are only 70 miles apart and both care a lot about football. And we do have some modern history with the Bulldogs, though not as much as as some think.
The Bulldogs are a bit uppity. When we started to beat them regularly, they mostly quit playing us. We were good for Georgia when they won all the games. When we started to win our share, Georgia dropped us.
Meanwhile, since 1970 Clemson has played FSU more often than we've played Georgia. While we were doing that FSU won more games than Georgia, won more titles, played more big national teams, won more Heisman Trophies and mattered to the national sport more than UGa. While all that was happening, we beat the Noles as often as we beat UGa.
In my hierarchy, our games with FSU have been bigger than our games with Georgia and I'll be OK if we keep it that way.
I'd like to play UGa more, but I don't pine for a game with the Dogs like some people.
Harley
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Tymick, look at this..
Jul 16, 2011, 6:06 PM
[ in reply to Tymick, look at this.. ] |
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Harley,
The first ACC school on your list, CU is 17th in attendance, while their are 6 SEC teams listed in the top 10. Thanks for the Post!
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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Re: Tymick, look at this..
Jul 16, 2011, 6:09 PM
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there it is ,in all it's glory,the war cry of usuc. SEC,SEC.it's not scar thats ahead of us.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: The 'Crutch.'***
Jul 16, 2011, 6:31 PM
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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Re: The 'Crutch.'***
Jul 16, 2011, 6:45 PM
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exactly.
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CU Guru [1243]
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I don't think he was using it as a crutch - he responded
Jul 16, 2011, 10:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: The 'Crutch.'*** ] |
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to the post and put it into a good context.
Harley posted attendance stats about Clemson and South Carolina to make a point about the SEC.
Why? If you are going to compare it to the SEC, use the numbers for the other teams in the conference as well- including all the schools in the top 10-12 in attendance.
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Amateur [36]
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Re: Tymick, look at this..
Jul 16, 2011, 6:45 PM
[ in reply to Tymick, look at this.. ] |
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wow if Clemson posted the actual attendance instead of posting a guess the Acc would only have Fla st on the list.
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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Re: Tymick, look at this..
Jul 16, 2011, 6:48 PM
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if you would dismount sos long enough,you would see that we have more of a crowd than usuc.(disclaimer for noon games)
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CU Guru [1297]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Clemson posts it's attendance exactly like everyone does,
Jul 17, 2011, 11:33 AM
[ in reply to Re: Tymick, look at this.. ] |
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My word you poor clowns are desperate.
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CU Guru [1243]
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Don't know about "everybody"
Jul 18, 2011, 12:24 PM
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Clemson posts general numbers like 77,000 or 74,000
I know at South Carolina they use handheld scanners to scan each ticket when you enter
That's why for the South Carolina home game against Tennessee this year the actual attendance was 79,336. For the Arkansas game we had 75,136
and for the Clemson- NC State game last year - they had 74,000
and for the GA Tech game they had 77,000
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Rooter [200]
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Re: Tymick, look at this..
Jul 16, 2011, 8:42 PM
[ in reply to Tymick, look at this.. ] |
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That will be changing this year. Going to be great when clemson report the exact count of fans at the game like every other school.
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Rock Defender [54]
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"Going to be great.." LOL, what a loser.
Jul 17, 2011, 11:33 AM
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Are you going to be sad when Clemson outdraws you again?
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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110%er [5093]
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That's because you go by tickets sold/given to students
Jul 17, 2011, 11:13 AM
[ in reply to Tymick, look at this.. ] |
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and we use actual attendance numbers. I'd imagine your numbers would be 2-3k lower than reported. Even the USC game wasn't a full house.
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Rock Defender [54]
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That's BS. uSC uses tickets sold just like everyone else.***
Jul 17, 2011, 11:32 AM
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Legend [19208]
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While I applaud your eloquent stand, I must say I have
Jul 16, 2011, 5:53 PM
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looked to the SEC because of its Southern base over the ACC's mid-atlantic to northern base even before ESecPN added money and exposure.
Also as an old-time Clemson fan I remember one of the best rivalries we ever had was with UGA. I think that was an SEC showdown in the late 70's and throughout the 80's.
And to top it off--I have had desires to join that conference way before the Coots were ever in it. When UNCheat called that double secret probation meeting on us and added some sanactions to us--I was ready for us to move on. But that of course is JMHO.
GO TIGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Orange Blooded [4745]
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Yep, you just stated my feelings almost word for word. As an
Jul 16, 2011, 7:00 PM
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old timer myself, I've seen the ACC #### on us with the additional year of probaton, ridiculous scheduling (sound familiar this year), and just being the redheaded stepchild from the Tobacco Road schools which still call the shots (removing the baseball tournament from the record breaking attendance in Greenville, and never going back).
I miss the yearly UGa games tremendously. When I was in school in the late 70's/early 80's that was THE game. SCAR was just the game we least wanted to lose, UGA was the game we students most wanted to win (big difference). We also were getting some of the best players out of Georgia "every year" when we played them "every year".
There are two points that I agree with Harley; we can still win another NC in the ACC, and the long and boring roadtrips to Starkville, Fayetteville, Auburn, Tuscaloosa, Baton Rouge, and Ole Miss would be a pain in the ###. The game itself would be the only redeeming quality for those trips.
I would however, enjoy the trips to Athens, Nashville, Gainesville, and Knoxville. The added aspect of SCAR being a conference game would also be fun.
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Scout Team [166]
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Agree 100%. Big point for you.
Jul 16, 2011, 6:50 PM
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You summed up the situation perfectly. The ONLY problem we have is winning FB games.....and that is getting ready to change.
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CU Medallion [58471]
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Very well said. I wouldn't necessarily be aginst being in
Jul 16, 2011, 7:10 PM
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the SEC, BUT it would not be the magical fix many seem to think it would be. We would be trading one set of problems for another, similar set.
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Starter [377]
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Re: Why I don't EVER want to be in the SEC or any other league.
Jul 16, 2011, 7:24 PM
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I would love to see clemson,fsu,miami,GT,and VT join the sec.. I know VT is a lil out of the region but that would be a great league and the sec could boot vandy and anyone else they wanted to if they so choose to.. Maybe im crazy , I dunno but having bama and lsu come to death valley would be nice... Big time games
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MVP [539]
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Re: Why I don't EVER want to be in the SEC or any other league.
Jul 16, 2011, 7:25 PM
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because the ACC is all around the best in golf, basketball, soccer, baseball, and tennis
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Amateur [38]
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Very well reasoned post, making some great points...
Jul 16, 2011, 8:12 PM
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My only responses are that, while I completely agree that the road trips you mentioned are fantastic, I don't really believe a fan of college football is going to snub their noses at spending Saturday nights in Baton Rouge, Tuscaloosa, Athens, Knoxville, etc.
As for academics... I really don't understand why that gets mentioned as a reason why Clemson shouldn't switch. I just think it's a non-issue altogether. It has no bearing on which "athletic" conference a school joins. It doesn't stop Florida, Georgia, and Vandy from being rated ahead of Clemson academically? I just don't get the importance of the connection. Clemson is who they are academically and it rarely if ever will get mentioned in connection with the athletic conference. If nothing else... Clemson is an academic afterthought in the ACC, being ranked 9th out of the 12 schools. Not sure why it's so important in this discussion. If you switched, you academic ranking isn't going to suddenly change.
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Legend [16186]
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Re: Very well reasoned post, making some great points...
Jul 16, 2011, 8:48 PM
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The reason I mention academics is because I care about them. Nationally the SEC is viewed as a big collection of lousy schools who care more about football than academics. That's painting with a broad brush, but I think it's true.
Wife is from the Midwest. She's got a ton of Big Ten fan Uncles and cousins. To a man, those folks think the SEC laughs out load at academics. Say what you want about the Big Ten, but it is a group of solid universities.
I've heard people from the NE and from outwest talk about SEC schools (LSU, Miss State, Bama, Tennessee...) as if they are junior college quality schools. My own experience locally suggests there has been a lot of truth to that through the years.
I'd like Clemson to be thought of and perceived as a fine academic institution, not LSU light or a 3rd tier school like most of the SEC.
It's a minor point in my views, but for me, it's real.
Harley
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CU Guru [1243]
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I disagree
Jul 16, 2011, 10:53 PM
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the reason a lot of those BIG 10 family members think that is because SEC teams have had a habit of doing a real number on Big 10 teams in bowl games and when they face each other.
I mean good gracious, who cares if some uncles and cousins look down a football conference because of their notions of academics. If folks sit around thinking about such stuff, they got too much time on their hands.
I spend time in Indiana and Illinois on business about 6 times a year (Usally Indy and Chicago). I don't think I've ever had anyone say a word to me about academics in the SEC when I've talked sports with them (or anything else) - and I've spent a lot of time talking sports while on business in Big 10 country. Most people don't give a crap.
People from the NE talk about the entire South as if we are junior college. But a ton of their high school graduates sure like to head down here for college. At USC, I'd guess 30% of the folks in my class Freshman year were from New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Maryland.
Most of us down here talk a lot about how arrogant a lot of folks are in the NE. So we can all talk about each other and continue to do so.
BTW- if someone is stupid enough to lump a school in with the conference they play in as far as academics go -they aren't someone to really be concerned with as far as their views on academics.
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Amateur [38]
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Good points...
Jul 17, 2011, 8:17 AM
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I doubt anyone has ever said "Wow, Clemson must be a great academic institution because they are in the ACC."
The ACC happens to have some great schools in it. But make no mistake it is not an IVY league conference.
And as you said... folks in the NE are simply going to think less of schools in the south... and conference affiliation likely is not going to change that.
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Amateur [38]
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Ok... so you are more interested in how Clemson's
Jul 17, 2011, 8:13 AM
[ in reply to Re: Very well reasoned post, making some great points... ] |
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academics are perceived as much as where they actually rank.
Like I said earlier, Clemson isn't going to suddenly get worse academically. being in the SEC shouldn't change Clemson's academic goals... Florida, UGA and Vandy each manage to be well respected schools... relative to Clemson anyway.
For me, when I consider a school's academics, the thought of which athletic conference they play in rarely comes into play. Stanford is a great school... but I don't give credit for that to the PAC-12. Nor does any other school's academics take away from the PAC-12 for me.
Don't get m wrong... I understand the importance of perception. I tell my employees all the time that perception is reality. That said... when it comes to academics at universities, there is so much specialization, so much that goes into what makes a university great, for me trying to link that algorithm to athletics... it's just a non-issue.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Pffft, yeah, who cares about academics? It's not like these
Jul 17, 2011, 11:36 AM
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are institutions of higher learning or anything silly like that.
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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academics will matter to usuc...
Jul 17, 2011, 11:41 AM
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as soon as they learn how to spell it.....
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Amateur [38]
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Commissioner [991]
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Thats not what he said.
Jul 18, 2011, 9:51 AM
[ in reply to Pffft, yeah, who cares about academics? It's not like these ] |
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He said is it more important to be perceived being in a better ATHLETIC conference academic wise OR is it more important to be a better academic institution individually in the rankings...such as a Florida, Georgia, or Vanderbilt who happen to be in this second tier academic conference of the SEC? It is absolutely ridiculous to care about what conference you are in based on the academics of the other institutions. The conference is set up for athletics; UGA, UF, and Vandy dont seem to suffer from the academics of Kentucky, SCU, etc. And Duke, UVA, UNC dont suffer from our academics...just putting it in perspective. I am happy with Clemson as an institution of higher learning. And I dont think playing MSU, Ole Miss, Kentucky is really going to effect our academic ranking.
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110%er [5093]
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That speaks more of jealously from an athletic sense
Jul 17, 2011, 11:50 AM
[ in reply to Re: Very well reasoned post, making some great points... ] |
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No sport fan that can brag about winning a game is going to resort to bringing up academics.
It is a fall back insult similar to the ones you saw in high school where an unpopular kid would say, "who cares if you're cool, you're dumb"
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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Re: That speaks more of jealously from an athletic sense
Jul 17, 2011, 4:21 PM
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did you knock the shi* out of him,because he was right.
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Legend [16186]
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Why I don't ever want to join the SEC.....
Jul 17, 2011, 9:47 PM
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About academics....
Perception is nearly everything. When you take your BS and hit the streets with it, the perceptions people have of the school that gave you the BS are critical. Duke Biology majors command more attention in the marketplace that Biology majors from Lander or Tennessee. An Engineering degree from GT commands $$ from more firms, and from national firms that pay more than one from Auburn.
When you apply to graduate school what others think of your school means a lot.
Lots of people think SEC schools suck and they think that about Alabama and Georgia, even though the schools are entirely different.
Clemson graduates benefit from the reputation our school has earned and that reputation would be tarnished by joining the SEC.
FWIW, I'm addressing my remarks to Clemson grads, fans and loyalists on the issue of joining the SEC. I know people who went to SC, Bama, Wingate, Lander, Francis Marion and the like will not appreciate these views.
And I think the Ivy League is over rated. But pubic perception being what it is, Ivy League grads get paid more because of the public perception of the academics at those schools and the sort of people who matriculate and graduate from such schools.
This is NOT the major reason I don't want to ever leave the ACC. It is a reason I'm happy Clemson is not an SEC school.
Harley
Message was edited by: Harley®
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CU Guru [1243]
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I simply don't think you are correct
Jul 18, 2011, 12:18 PM
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It has nothing to do with the SEC or ACC or anyone else.
I think your generalizations are incorrect from on a factual basis.
"When you apply to graduate school what others think of your school means a lot"
It can in some cases. But it's just as likely to be as important as what the folks in your program of study think about your college, or where a particular professor went to school.
Do you hvae a professor with connections pulling for you and wanting you to go to a particular school? Do you have test scores that indicate you will be a success in graduate school? Is your professor willing to make a call for you? That can be more important than your choice of school for your undergraduate degree.
When I applied to graduate school, I took the advice of my boss. He gave me several schools where he thought my program of study would be ideal for me, and I choose one of those. It wasn't because of the name of the college in some magazine ranking, or where someone else thought was good on a message board. We also didn't consider athletic conferences. My boss thought a lot of one of the professors in my program of study, I considered it, and eventually choose it.
Now, if you want to go get a job in Boston, or Chicago - you might want to consider the name on the diploma. Or you may want to find out who your boss prefers (can be just as important). But the percentage of folks doing that are pretty small.
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Enthusiast [135]
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Re: Why I don't ever want to join the SEC.....
Jul 18, 2011, 12:21 PM
[ in reply to Why I don't ever want to join the SEC..... ] |
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I don't know about other grad programs, but where you went to undergrad doesn't mean all that much for law school. your GPA combined with where you went matters to some degree, but about %85 of what law schools look at is your LSAT score
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Associate AD [807]
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Below the belt
Jul 18, 2011, 5:36 PM
[ in reply to Why I don't ever want to join the SEC..... ] |
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> And I think the Ivy League is over rated. But pubic
> perception being what it is, Ivy League grads get
> paid more...
Are you saying Ivy League grads are more "endowed" than grads of other schools?
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Zealot [917]
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ANd what if those teams you love to travel to and play
Jul 16, 2011, 10:50 PM
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begin to get cherry picked to other leagues?
ANd most of the other reasons you gave. Are you kidding me? Wow that is a bunch of sappy, moth ball covered nonsense.
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Legend [16264]
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Wow. What a coot magnet this post has been.
Jul 16, 2011, 11:11 PM
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I haven't seen this many coots gather together in one place since the big buy one get half free sale at TrailerMart.
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Legend [15138]
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Overall: thumbs up.
Jul 16, 2011, 11:58 PM
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But come on now, Death Valley is not argualy the "best stadium in America".
You might could say "best atmosphere" (it'd be a stretch), "loudest stadium" (somewhat of a stretch), or even best-looking co-eds (pretty fair statement).
But not best stadium. State of big screen TV, lack of recent noise, lack of recent sell-outs, and lack of recent game day buzz.
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CU Medallion [53887]
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Well, I see there are at least 36 other Tnetters that could
Jul 17, 2011, 11:53 AM
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have made my referee list, but there should be tons more. Sorry I left you off Harley,it was an oversight on my part.I also see a couple of the peckerheads have weighed in on your post.
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CU Medallion [55460]
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Re: Why I don't EVER want to be in the SEC or any other league.
Jul 17, 2011, 11:16 PM
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So says the guy that has screen named himself after the legend of motor cycles. Clap clap clap!!! Nice speech, and very passionate. I see the SEC as being an advantage for Clemson than a disadvantage. Take recruiting for instance. Dabo as good and beter than most that has ever recruited for Clemson. But even Dabo loses a ton of top notch very talented recruit only because we are in the ACC. Clemson is one of those schools I believe that If, we were in the SEC we could be one of the schools that stay in the top ten year in and year out. Because we would be getting that ton of talent that we are losing b/c we are an ACC school. The money, a lot more money for Clemson athletics. Kids that we are losing b/c ESPN has bought and glorified the SEC was not Clemsons fault. It was the fault of the people in control and running the ACC. Also the fault of the people controling and running the SEC. Every year when we hear that that the black berries are ripe and ready to pick, what should we do. Do we keep going back to the berry bushes "That Used" to give us tons of berries, but only gives us a couple of buckets. And keep going back every year hoping that it gets better. Or do we go to where the fruits are bountiful. That is why I personally say we move to the SEC the very first chance we get. The ACC will never again be favorable to Clemson ever. And its time that Clemson goes to where Clemson belongs, in the SEC. No groups of 1,2,3,4,or 5. Just the simple truth of what the changing of times brings. All of us has heard this our whole life. If you don't move a long with the changes, you will be left far behind.
Message was edited by: allorangeallthetime52®
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Fan [75]
TigerPulse: 33%
Posts: 65
Joined: 11/2/03
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I have to say that Lexington, KY in the fall is awesome
Jul 17, 2011, 11:30 PM
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It is an awesome experience going up to Lexington for a football game and going to the horse races at Keeneland on Friday (and Saturday depending on the time of the game). It is one of the more unique and fun destinations to visit for a football game. They also have much better fans than they get credit for, as they routinely fill up a stadium of ~70,000.
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CU Guru [1243]
TigerPulse: 27%
Posts: 8289
Joined: 2/1/04
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Agree- a trip to Kentucky for a football game in October is
Jul 18, 2011, 12:28 PM
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an outstanding destination.
My wife always loves that trip. Tours of the horse farms, the weather, a very nice stadium with very good crowds near 70,000 - always a great trip.
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110%er [5436]
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Joined: 9/23/01
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Re: Why I don't EVER want to be in the SEC or any other league.
Jul 18, 2011, 12:36 PM
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I think the SEC has alot better road trips than the ACC
GT ? are you kidding me? GT sux and so does thier fans base. Miami??? Where 10000 might show up??
BC where you can only tailgate 2hrs before and after the game. Oh yeah their fan base SUX too.
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