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Know-it-all [2253]
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Those lofty days of Rick Barnes
Mar 25, 2010, 9:41 AM
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Aaah, those were the days.
97-98 Clemson 18-14 0.562 8-10 ACC, ousted 2nd round ACC + 1st rd loss Western Michigan
96-97 Clemson 23-10 0.697 9-8 ACC, lost in 1st round ACC, what?!?!? + Sweet Sixteen remember that? that was awesome.
95-96 Clemson 17-11 0.607 8-10 ACC, Buckner dunk was this year?!? Wait it was a first round game not the finals? No way. Ousted 2nd rd ACC + 1st round loss UGA
94-95 Clemson 15-13 0.536, 5-12 ACC, 1st round loss ACC + 1st round NIT loss Virginia Tech
Message was edited by: sconor®
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Historian [3046]
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Re: Those lofty days of Rick Barnes
Mar 25, 2010, 9:51 AM
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Think you missed the guy's point. The point was that Barnes accomplished more in the POSTSEASON than OP has. That is not even debatable. Whether you would take consistent regular season wins over one tournament run, on the other hand, is a different story completely
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Know-it-all [2253]
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Purnell had an ACC Tourney run that was exciting as that
Mar 25, 2010, 10:08 AM
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sweet 16 run. Where is the big difference? What is Rick Barnes doing now? 1st in the country to 1st round losses. He took a Kevin Durant led team to a 9-7 conference record and a 2nd round loss. He can go...
My point is, it wasn't THAT much better. People are clouding this image of godliness with him and he won TWO tourney games in a row sandwiched by unimpressive first round losses. Two more than Purnell, I know, but at least we're getting there and having opportunities to get that first W.
Are the Buffalo Bills failures for losing 4 super bowls in a row? I guess. They failed at being excellent. We're in the same boat, we've got the being good down, but we can't get to the excellent step. I think Purnell can do it, but the problem is it will take another 365 days to find out.
If there were a sure-fire, no question, absolute winner of a coach out there to step in and take that next step, sure I would be interested, but there isn't one out there, and if there is he ain't quitting Florida or Kentucky to come here so I like who we got. 99% of college fan bases would take our "failing" situation right now.
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Rock Defender [54]
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You sir are correct
Mar 25, 2010, 11:26 AM
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Barnes only had 1 decent postseason run (NCAA Sweet 16 - 2 wins)
Purrnell only has 1 decent postseason run (ACC Championship Game - 2 wins)
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Junkie [563]
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Re: You sir are correct
Mar 25, 2010, 12:12 PM
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the 2 are not comparable and anyone who thinks they are is just not that bright...
one(NCAA) is the BIG dance..
the other is not the big dance but a conference tourney..
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Rock Defender [54]
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Barnes made ACC semis twice - OP once - and conf was much
Mar 25, 2010, 12:18 PM
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harder back then. Played everybody twice.
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All-Pro [658]
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How many championship games did Barnes make?***
Mar 25, 2010, 1:09 PM
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Junkie [563]
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Re: How many championship games did Barnes make?***
Mar 25, 2010, 1:19 PM
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none. hambone..
lets just give OP a lifetime contract... He made the championship game 3 years ago.. awesome... wooptydamndo......
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110%er [7169]
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The moment Clemson gets to the sweet sixteen RB will be
Mar 25, 2010, 9:56 AM
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forgotten....except for when he got in Dean's face...thats the best 25 point loss I've ever seen... Our goofy white boys were ready to scrap.
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All-In [49613]
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Barne's heyday at Clemson was a Prague Spring...
Mar 25, 2010, 10:14 AM
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...a wild, giddy euphoria that briefly gave people the hope that we could change the world.
Then the iron boot heel of reality smacked him and us back down.
Barnes didn't have the stomach to battle. He left, abandoning those who believed that Clemson could matter in the realm of basketball.
OP isn't a Prague Spring. He's not here today and skipping town when things don't come up skittles and beer. Her's here for the long haul. And he has made Clemson matter in the real of basketball.
There is absolutely no reason to insult his accomplishment here by saying Barnes did more.
None.
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110%er [6492]
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If Barnes' tenure was a Prague Spring, then Purnell's is
Mar 25, 2010, 10:29 AM
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a Velvet Revolution and he is our Vaclav Havel.
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All-In [49613]
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Peaceful, progressive change...makes sense.
Mar 25, 2010, 10:44 AM
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But OP dresses a lot better!
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CU Guru [1632]
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All-In [49613]
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In this context, there's PLENTY of reason to do so...
Mar 26, 2010, 6:52 AM
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...not even including the cheap shots he took at the state on the way out the door.
Rick Barnes left because he couldn't see any way to make Clemson better than that Sweet 16 run. He lost out on some top recruits because THEY couldn't see Clemson as anything better, either.
OP is the only coach who not only can see something better, but sees how it must be done. Not by sulking and running, as Barnes did. Not by bringing in occasional players to give the program a pulse before slipping back into a coma like Ellis did.
By retooling ... or tooling in this case, a rattly jalopy into a top fuel dragster. Of the coaches who have looked at this job, only OP has been a man with the stomach for it, the patience for it and a plan for it.
If saying so is trashing Barnes, then so be it.
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CU Guru [1632]
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Disagree; but to each his own
Mar 26, 2010, 11:55 AM
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You don't build OP up by tearing Rick Barnes down. Barnes left 12 years ago and did a good job while he was here. Why not leave it as that?
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Because he TRASHED us on the way out and because
Mar 26, 2010, 3:22 PM
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he QUIT when he could have stayed and proved himself in the ACC.
If people would stop bringing up the Barnes Era when trying to tear down OP, I would bet other people would stop worrying about the Barnes Era altogether.
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Junkie [563]
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Re: Those lofty days of Rick Barnes
Mar 25, 2010, 12:15 PM
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The ACC is NOT the same league now it was then...
then we played UNC, Wake, Duke, and GT as well as every other ACC twice every year...
The league was a lot, TONS, TOUGHER than it is now...
Upsetting UNC in that ACC tourney was one of my favorite memories as a Clemson basketball fan..
We were an overtime away from the elite 8.
Barnes era > by far than OP's so far..
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Know-it-all [2253]
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I was at the Kentucky game in Indy - my favorite sports
Mar 25, 2010, 12:44 PM
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memory that will likely never be beat. I remember watching the Minnesota game on tv. It was an incredible roller coaster ride.
I ALSO remember sitting in my car in my work parking lot listening to the Western Kentucky game going "### is going on here?" (similar to my reactions in tourney games of late).
And another memory of hearing Rick Barnes to Texas on my way home from work and the shock, disappointment and anger that went along with that.
The point is Rick Barnes lost games. Rick Barnes took the money and ran. We never got to see if he could sustain or improve upon his legacy, how he would recruit for the long haul, how he combined recruiting classes, improve his ACC tournament record or any of that. We were a stepping stone for him, that's it.
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Junkie [563]
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Re: I was at the Kentucky game in Indy - my favorite sports
Mar 25, 2010, 1:18 PM
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I don't disagree with that at all, but I just don't like downplaying Barnes era for the sake of OP.
No one knows how Barnes would do at Clemson for the long haul, but looking at every place he has ever coached I would say he would have done fairly well..
He is a good coach..
He is younger than OP, but he was chosen over all others for one of the best jobs in the country.
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Orange Blooded [4745]
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Barnes said in a interview about a year after he left that
Mar 25, 2010, 2:35 PM
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he was having a hard time recruiting Clemson. There was only one good class, and that was the McIntyre, Jurkunis, Christie, Wideman, and Jamison class that came in after his first season at Clemson.
Name a quality recruit from Barnes after that class.
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Junkie [563]
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Re: Barnes said in a interview about a year after he left that
Mar 25, 2010, 11:00 PM
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he was only here 3-4 years?
who brought in Soloman? he was a great player..
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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W/out Greg Buckner there is no "Rick Barnes Era" at Clemson.
Mar 26, 2010, 3:26 PM
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Solomon was looking at Clemson when Barnes skipped town. Shyatt managed to keep him in the fold.
Barnes recruited a few very good players and one great player. When that great player used up his eligibility, Barnes decided he had had enough.
Hard to blame him ... but I still do, LOL. Barnes quit on Clemson when the going got tough.
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CU Guru [1632]
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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What do you mean "you can't compare" the jobs? If you read
Mar 26, 2010, 3:37 PM
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this board, you will quickly become aware that the Clemson job is one of the top opportunities in all of college basketball. The Texas job was a sideways move at best, LOL.
If you believe half of what you read, you will be mystified as to how ANY coach could leave a situation like Clemson ... a charter member of the ACC with all the rights and priviledges thereof ... in order to take on a basketball program in a football conference.
The evidence is hard to refute. Clemson is one of the most coveted jobs in the nation, because we play in the ACC and we have fans who are incredibly loyal. The programn is RIPE to be taken to the "next level"!
There are great coaches lining up to come to Clemson just as soon as we get rid of this blasted albatros known as Oliver Purnell.
And it cannot come soon enough for a lot of people on Tigernet.
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CU Guru [1660]
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Re: What do you mean "you can't compare" the jobs? If you read
Mar 26, 2010, 3:45 PM
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What color glasses do you have on?
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Dunno ... is "sarcastic" a color?***
Mar 26, 2010, 3:48 PM
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All-Pro [658]
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Rick Barnes couldn't get to the Final Four with Kevin Durant
Mar 26, 2010, 4:19 PM
[ in reply to Re: Those lofty days of Rick Barnes ] |
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and D.J. Augustine. Stop over-hyping his coaching abilities.
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110%er [9674]
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OPs ACC is watered down compared to the Barnes "era"
Mar 25, 2010, 2:49 PM
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Plus, before the season Barnes' first team was thought by many to be the worst team in ACC HISTORY. He coached those boys up!
He got in Dean Smith's face, made a run in the NCAAs, won a couple of 1st round ACC tourney games - he did a fine job at Clemson.
But then he wussed out and went where he didn't have to recruit/play against UNC/Duke. (Why do you think he turned down the NCState job?)
OP is also doing a fine job - and I don't think Clemson can get anyone better.
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Orange Blooded [2441]
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May be watered down but generally speaking, you now
Mar 25, 2010, 3:20 PM
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have to win two games in the ACC tourney to reach the semis. Now, you only have to win one.
I have only seen OP given credit for the one ACC tourney run in which we went to the finals. How about 2005 (I believe) when we beat Maryland, which was a bubble team playing for their tourney lives, in DC and then pushed the eventual national champion UNC team to the limits before Felton took over down the stretch?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Man - those "moral victory" losses keep cropping up as
Mar 25, 2010, 3:22 PM
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great OP moments.
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Orange Blooded [2441]
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That wasn't a moral victory. We weren't any good that year
Mar 25, 2010, 3:28 PM
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and we did beat Maryland a few miles from their home court. Barnes went to the semis twice based on one win each time. Purnell has done the same thing. My point is that other than the sweet sixteen year, Barnes and Purnell have had similar fates both in the ACC and in the NCAA.
Those that say that the Barnes era was much better than the OP era must not remember the W. Michigan loss.
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Junkie [563]
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Re: That wasn't a moral victory. We weren't any good that year
Mar 25, 2010, 11:02 PM
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I think most remember the UNC win as one of the greatest in our lifetime for Clemson...
the sweet 16 run was the best year for Clemson bball in my life... cept for maybe the sweet 16 run with ellis where tate george.. nevermind,,
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Rock Defender [54]
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I get so tired of that stupid excuse, be it FB or BB. "Clems
Mar 26, 2010, 12:24 AM
[ in reply to OPs ACC is watered down compared to the Barnes "era" ] |
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"Clemson can't get any better" is a cop out and complete BS!
The guy a Mizzou has only been there 4 yrs, with less talent, in a lesser BBall conference, yet in only yr 3 made the Sweet 16, OP in yr 7 hasn't won a game yet in the NCAA Tourney!
We could fire OP and go get the guy from Mizzou right now! Guarantee it! And he's already proven he's better than OP. This year, last year, abd before he even went to Mizzou.
Would you take Urban Meyer or jim Tressel as FB coach? Of course you would, and CU could of had both before they went to Ohio State & Florida. Meyer was at Utah and Tressel in I-AA ball.
There are plenty of great young PROVEN HEAD coaches out there, you just have to go find them and get them!
Clemson is a top 10 job, top 15 depending on how you judge it. you think we can't get a guy from Utah or Boise or I-AA? Of course we can!! Only a ###### or fan in denial wanting to make excuses is that stupid!
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Orange Blooded [3290]
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Re: I get so tired of that stupid excuse, be it FB or BB. "Clems
Mar 26, 2010, 5:31 AM
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A top ten job? in Basketball? ummm ok...back to reality
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110%er [9674]
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Well, Clemson's previous FB coach matched your
Mar 26, 2010, 9:48 AM
[ in reply to I get so tired of that stupid excuse, be it FB or BB. "Clems ] |
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description. You know, Shyatt fit your description as well. (Successful assistant under Barnes, took Wyoming to the NCAAs in one season there.) Neither worked out (CTB was OK) - but how do you know which young coach will be the next Meyer or Tressel or the next Shyatt?
And I disagree - I doubt coaches will be beating our door down to get in when OP leaves.
OP is good. We could do a lot worse (and usually do in basketball).
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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We could get the hot young coach from Wyoming who just won
Mar 26, 2010, 3:43 PM
[ in reply to I get so tired of that stupid excuse, be it FB or BB. "Clems ] |
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19 games and got the Cowboys into the NIT in is first year.
Oh wait, that was Larry Shyatt.
I agree 100% with you that there are dozens of young guys out there who fit the decription of the next Bobby Knight or Mike Krezyzewski.
The problem is idnentifying them before it becomes obvious.
Seriously, I would love to kniow exactly why you think the guy from Missouri would pack his bags and come to Clemson.
While Clemson can be legitimately considered a top job in football, there is no rationale for the same argument in hoops. Perhaps we could do a lot better than OP. But, we could just as easily hire another Larry Shyatt.
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All-Pro [658]
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Rock Defender [54]
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