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Rock Defender [54]
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Rob Spence: Just some facts......
May 4, 2008, 2:52 PM
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Bubble screens? LOL.
Clemson has been the most balanced team in the ACC each of the last three years.
Clemson has led the ACC in scoring offense each of the last two years.
In 2007, the Tigers led the ACC in scoring offense and finished second in total offense and rushing offense and finished third in passing offense.
Clemson was the only team in the ACC with at least 2000 yards rushing and 3000 yards passing and averaged 403 yards of total offense per game.
Clemson led the ACC in touchdowns with 51, the second highest total in school history.
Aaron Kelly had 88 receptions in 2007, tied for the second highest total in ACC history.
James Davis enters his senior year ranked second in Clemson history in rushing yards and total touchdowns.
Spence has tutored three different quarterbacks in his three years to outstanding seasons. 2008 will be his first year with the same QB.
In 2007, Cullen Harper led the ACC in passing efficiency and set 22 school records.
Since Spence came to Clemson for the 2005 season, the Tigers have won at least eight games every year. It is the first time since the 1986-91 era that Clemson has won at least eight games three consecutive years.
Clemson has finished in the top 25 of both polls two of the three seasons and has been to a bowl game all three years.
In 2006, his second year as offensive coordinator, Clemson gained at least 2,500 yards rushing and passing, one of just four schools nationally to exceed those mark on both categories. It was also just the second time in school history it had been done.
Clemson led the ACC and was in the top 13 in the nation in total offense, rushing offense, and scoring offense. It marked just the third time in history that the Tiger offense finished in the top 20 in all three areas in the same year.
Leading the ACC in those three areas is not a common occurrence. In fact, it was the first time any ACC team had led in all three areas since 1990, and it was just the second time it had been done by any ACC school in the last 25 years. It was also the first time Clemson had done it since 1978.
The Tigers were a dominant team on offense at the league level in 2006. Clemson averaged a league-best 410 yards per game of total offense to finish 13th in the nation, the only ACC team to finish in the top 49 in the country in that category.
Clemson gained 719 more yards and scored 80 more points than its nearest ACC foe in 2006. It was quite an accomplishment considering the ACC had five of the top 18 teams in the nation in total defense.
The Tigers also led the ACC in yards per play (6.5), touchdowns (55), and third-down conversion percentage (42). The touchdown total and yards-per-play figure were school records as well.
Spence was the architect of one of the most-improved offenses in Tiger history in his first season. The 2005 Tigers improved 89 yards per game in total offense over 2004, the fourth-biggest jump in school history and the eighth-best improvement among Division I teams.
Spence's approach helped the Tigers to an 8-4 record in 2005, including three wins over top-25 teams. Clemson beat #16 Florida State and #19 South Carolina in consecutive games, then defeated Colorado in the Champs Sports Bowl.
At Toledo, Spence led the offense to four straight top-13 final marks in total offense, and helped the Rocket program to 35 victories between 2001-04.
Twice in his four years, the Rockets were in the top 20 in the nation in rushing, and twice the team was in the top 20 in passing.
Spence was not a one-year wonder at Toledo. All four of his offenses were in the top 13 in the nation in total offense and top 25 in scoring offense.
The Rockets gained 2,013 rushing yards and 3,676 passing yards in the 2004 regular season, joining Louisville (11-1), Oklahoma (12-0), and Southern California (12-0) as the nation's only offenses to record at least 2,000 rushing yards and 3,000 passing yards.
Courtesy of clemsontigers.com
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Junkie [411]
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Re: Rob Spence: Just some facts......
May 4, 2008, 3:00 PM
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5-3
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All-Conference [446]
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what does 5-3 mean?***
May 4, 2008, 3:11 PM
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Junkie [411]
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Re: what does 5-3 mean?***
May 4, 2008, 3:14 PM
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tied for fourth place
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All-TigerNet [11161]
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Re: what does 5-3 mean?***
May 4, 2008, 3:23 PM
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which is our all time average. Sorry, hate to use facts on you.
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Expert [1472]
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So does that mean
May 4, 2008, 3:35 PM
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Spence is about average? Thus far, that seems about right
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All-TigerNet [11161]
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Re: So does that mean
May 4, 2008, 4:08 PM
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No, we've rarely if ever been as good on offense statistically as we are now. Unless you can prove me wrong...
I don't see how that relates to my post though. Oh I see, it's the old "I need to change the arguement because I can't refute this one" move. typical.
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110%er [9174]
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That's a ripper, Rocko
May 4, 2008, 6:42 PM
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Nice Job
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Expert [1472]
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Re: So does that mean
May 4, 2008, 7:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: So does that mean ] |
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Actually I still think Spence can do great things. I'm just more preoccupied with our record than our statistics. Maybe that's where we really differ
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Rock Defender [54]
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How does our record reflect on the OC only?
May 5, 2008, 9:59 AM
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And by the way, our record and set of accomplishments are going up since Spence got here. We were 24th in the country last tear, and we moved up to 22nd after 2007.
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Rooter [249]
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If a football team weren't comprised of ST and defense
May 4, 2008, 5:13 PM
[ in reply to Re: Rob Spence: Just some facts...... ] |
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in addition to offense...the record would be a more accurate reflection of the OC's job performance.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Yet another "yup" ;^)***
May 4, 2008, 5:33 PM
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110%er [8075]
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Re: Rob Spence: Just some facts......
May 4, 2008, 3:11 PM
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Tigga, you should never, ever use facts on T-Net. It will only confuse them in their rush to find something to b$tch about.
Good post and thanks...
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All-In [40950]
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if you read those facts it almost makes
May 4, 2008, 3:19 PM
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it seems like we are the best or at least one of the best teams in the conference since Spence has been here. But the facts are that Clemson and been 4-4,5-3,5-3 the last three years. We are clearly slightly above average at best.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Yeah, we are above average. But is it all the OC's fault we
May 4, 2008, 3:59 PM
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aren't #1 on the list? I don't think you can say that.
Obviously we need to beat either VT, BC or both.
Since 2005,
(Rank, Team, Clemson record against)
1)VT : 21-5 (0-2)
2)GT: 16-9 (1-2)
3)BC: 16-9 (0-3)
4) WAKE: 15-10 (2-1)
5) Clemson: 14-10 (-)
6) UVA: 13-11 (-)
7) FSU: 13-12 (3-0)
8) Miami: 11-13 (0-1... Stuckey is still wide open!)
9) Maryland: 11-13 (2-1)
10) UNC: 9-15 (1-0)
11) NCSU: 8-16 (3-0)
12) Duke: 0-24 (2-0)
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All-In [40950]
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no, my point was that your original post used facts
May 4, 2008, 5:10 PM
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to make it look like our team's production was very good over the last three years, when the fact is that we have been average and in the middle third of the ACC and historically no better than we usually are.
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Rock Defender [54]
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I think you are missing the point............
May 4, 2008, 5:31 PM
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Our offensive production is as EXACTLY like shown in the bullets points of the original post. And obviously the production is at the the top or near the top in every category. You're trying to lump all of our losses on the playcalling of the OC, and that just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
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CU Medallion [53922]
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110%er [8957]
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Or, can you stick to the gameplan an not let your
May 4, 2008, 4:55 PM
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receiver get wide open for a scrambling Matt Ryan?
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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Commissioner [980]
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But no ACC title game. Not even close.***
May 4, 2008, 3:12 PM
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All-American [570]
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What's your definition of close??
May 4, 2008, 3:16 PM
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1 game away each of the past two years is pretty darn close. No excuses for not getting done, especially last year, but how can you say not even close?
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MVP [548]
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close means almost pregnant.***
May 4, 2008, 4:23 PM
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CU Medallion [53922]
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LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!***
May 4, 2008, 4:25 PM
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Orange Blooded [2763]
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Orange Blooded [2328]
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Orange Blooded [3974]
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All-TigerNet [11161]
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exactly, anyone who says we haven't been close
May 4, 2008, 3:20 PM
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plain doesn't know what close means.
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All-Conference [405]
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When does "close" count?
May 4, 2008, 3:37 PM
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horseshoes, hand grenades, nuclear weapons, and USC athletics.
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All-TigerNet [11161]
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ask rowdyman since he was the one that brought it up***
May 4, 2008, 4:09 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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We have most certainly been very, very close.
May 4, 2008, 3:35 PM
[ in reply to But no ACC title game. Not even close.*** ] |
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But in any case, it's not the fault of the OC. There may have been some (in hindsight) bad play calls, just like there were bad defensive plays from time to time, just like there have been some bad special teams plays from time to time.
Just like any other school or team at aany level in any sport.
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Legend [16070]
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110%er [9174]
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CU Guru [1236]
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Stats are great, but look at the games that count...
May 4, 2008, 3:35 PM
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VT last year was miserable.
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Rock Defender [54]
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VT was the 4th best defense in the country last year and 3rd
May 4, 2008, 3:39 PM
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ranked scoring defense. They were ranked that high for a reason. Yet we had almost 100 more yards and scored more than their avg pts/game. VT scored 21 points off a tipped INT, a punt return, and a kickoff return. Kinda hard to pin that on the OC.
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110%er [8957]
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Legend [16070]
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I think people have forgoten where our offense was...
May 4, 2008, 3:44 PM
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before he got here.
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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We are MUCH better. But we could have been better still.
May 4, 2008, 4:00 PM
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I support Spence. I think this year we kick serious ###. But so far Spence has had his problems. I am glad we have him but I can't ignore that our offense has struggled vs. good competition even though we have the talent to do better. I say our offense breaks out this year and everyone starts worshiping him with only the anti-Leggett-type fans still doubting him.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Not sure where you get "we have the talent to do better".
May 4, 2008, 4:25 PM
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We've had our shares of oline problems, major QB issues, and a lack of depth at WR. I think we have done quite well considering all of that. And I agree with you in that we have a nice stable of very good athletes at WR now, and of course RB. Cullen Harper should be strong and perhaps better. So all in all it basically boils down to the OL,... which is a topic for another discussion.
Point is, yeah, our offense has bogged down at times, but a lot of times its been because of the things mentioned in the first paragraph.
When you take a good look at how we lost in 07 though, you can see how close we actually were. We played 4 of the top 20, and 2 of the top 10 defenses in America, yet our offensive output was as good as or better than anyone against those teams. There were some reasons other than our playcalling that contributed to our losses.
I'd be curious too to see what you would say were Spence's problems? Has he made some (in hindsight) bad play calls? Yes. Has any offensive coordinator called the right play every time in every game? Obviously you know better than that.
There's a reason Spence is coveted at both the college and NFL levels although I'm saying he is above criticism. But overall he has done a heck of a lot to take us where he has in 3 years. And like you said it looks like it could be set to really take off... (with a good oline).
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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Too bad the entire point of football is to win games.
May 4, 2008, 3:55 PM
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You are biased if you ignore the fact that we racked up huge numbers against crappy opponents. Spence isn't bad at all but touting stats that are bloated by weak competition doesn't mean THAT much. We need to get to a point where our offense is never completely shut down against good teams. I would trade the 50 point blowouts for a semi-smooth offense against solid competition. It's a fact that several other teams do more with less. Spence simply has a not so great track record against our toughest competition.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Every team plays 'crappy opponents'....
May 4, 2008, 4:29 PM
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Our schedule wasn't thaat bad last year.
And there are plenty of reasons to go around as far as why we lost 4 games in 2007. But there is no way they all fall on the OC. So please, stop trying to say things like "the entire point of football is to win games" as if it's somehow all Rob Spence's fault we didn't win more than 9.
here is the key point - THE FACTS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.
By the way, we finished in the top 25, so that's not too bad by any stretch.
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Rock Defender [54]
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yeah and we still nevr threw the ball down field with
May 4, 2008, 4:32 PM
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charlie at the helm. I could understand with will because he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn but with charlie? come on man. Rob needs to get it together this year or he will be on my next gotta go list.
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Rock Defender [54]
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I don't think anyone really cares
May 4, 2008, 4:41 PM
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if he will be on your "next gotta go list" or not, but I guess you're entitled to your opinion.
The thing is, the bullets points at the top are FACTUAL, ..and it appears we are getting better.
In other words, the facts speak for themselves.
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Legend [19352]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Maybe if I was we would actually get something done.
May 4, 2008, 6:25 PM
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Fear makes people do things. If they think their jobs are on the line they will do what it takes. Look at Tommy, everytime his butts on the hot seat we produce down the stretch. Look at the cardinals so far this year 2. every position except for 1st and 3rd are battling to play everyday. We srr how thats turning out.
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Legend [19352]
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Lol basing a 162 game season off of Aprils performance
May 4, 2008, 6:34 PM
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sure you aren't a cubs fan?
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Rock Defender [54]
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wasn't bashing the cards man***
May 4, 2008, 7:51 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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LOL......
May 4, 2008, 4:44 PM
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those stats are so skewed it's not even funny. Anybody can put 600 yards up against La tech and Duke. Go check the stats from VT, Auburn, etc.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Everyone plays teams like Duke........
May 4, 2008, 5:11 PM
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VT was the 4th best defense in the United States last year. They gave up on average 297 yards per game. We didn't block well in our running game, but we ended up with almost 100 more yards than most teams got against them. We actually made a run of it, and had a missed opportunity or two in the endzone as well. I don't think VT planned it that way. They are hardnosed and never stop attacking, so we took advantage of the holes they left and made a game of that.
You also mentioned Auburn. They were the 6th ranked defense in the United States. Unfortunately our very solid QB picked that game for his worst showing from an accuracy standpoint, yet there we were, set to win the game.
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Legend [19352]
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Every school has cupcakes on their schedule
May 4, 2008, 6:01 PM
[ in reply to LOL...... ] |
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next argument.
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null [2861]
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I'd like to see the stats on 3rd down conversion's when we
May 4, 2008, 4:56 PM
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need 3 yards or less. I bet those stats are ABYSMAL. He's horrible in SITUATIONAL play-calling. If his game-plan gets interrupted we're effed. Like VT's run stopping last year until they sent in the scrubs and we got some numbers on the board.
He stinks when it counts.
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Oculus Spirit [83161]
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I think the play-calling is fine. It's just very tough when
May 4, 2008, 5:09 PM
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you can't run on teams when they know you're gonna run.
We need to be able to run when everyone in the stadium knows it's coming...easier said than done.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Letterman [298]
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Oculus Spirit [83161]
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Nice post but Spence and TB will continue to catch heat
May 4, 2008, 5:12 PM
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until we win the ACC. Stats are nice and I like Spence and TB but our fans need to put some heat on until they get it done.
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Varsity [249]
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Spence holds us back...in most years so does our O Line.***
May 4, 2008, 5:51 PM
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Legend [16186]
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Spence has done a very fine job. I like him.
Sep 17, 2018, 8:19 AM
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I'm glad we have him back. Maybe a few years of continuity will get us over the big hump of a conference title and BCS win that so many see as the only measure of success.
Personally, I'm pretty sick of all the moaning and groaning from so many pain in the butt Tiger fans. Makes me sick.
Harley
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Orange Blooded [2763]
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Statistics are for losers - only one measure of success
May 4, 2008, 6:30 PM
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I'm not here to knocks Spence - in fact I wish him nothing but success. But please don't recite silly statistics of yards and scores that were run up on hapless opponents while we struggled to gain a first down against ACC contenders.
There is only one thing that counts - it is not 'how many wins this year'. It is: did you win the ACC Championship?
That's it - it's simple. We are playing for the championship of our conference - you win it or you don't - that's it kids.
By the way - "Spence has tutored three different quarterbacks in his three years to outstanding seasons." I won't call the QB out but I must say that he has not had 3 quarterbacks with outstanding seasons. That's just a fact.
The bottom line - Spense is OK with me. Now lets win the ACC Championship and celebrate and stop offering up Coot-like stories about why we are really OK while finishing in fourth place in an unimpressive conference.
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Athletic Dir [861]
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This says it all - POINT***
May 4, 2008, 6:39 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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About the ACCCG, maybe, but the offense, not at all.***
May 5, 2008, 10:27 AM
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Standout [313]
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CU Guru [1893]
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Re: Statistics are for losers . Correct.
May 4, 2008, 8:46 PM
[ in reply to Statistics are for losers - only one measure of success ] |
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Spence has yet to prove himself to me. Clemson should have killed USC last year. But his determination to run the ball kept USC in the game. If Spence had come out throwing the ball, Clemson would have won by 3 TDs.
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Hall of Famer [21284]
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Sorry, but I gotta disagree with you. The Clemson-USuC
May 4, 2008, 9:01 PM
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games the past two years were the exact opposite of each other. Two years ago, SCU completely dominated the game and barely won. This past year, we completely dominated the game and barely won. We had a gameplan and were cramming it down their throats the entire game. They had a couple of big plays that kept them in it.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Sorry, but you seem very confused.....
May 5, 2008, 10:22 AM
[ in reply to Statistics are for losers - only one measure of success ] |
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The stats are what they are. They are based on the full schedule, which was not as bad as you seem to think. We played some poor teams and some good team - JUST LIKE EVERYONE in the country. Everyone in the country had just as many opportunities to 'pad' their stats against teams that weren't as good as they were.
Your comments that "we struggled to gain a first down against ACC contenders" is incorrect. We struggled no more than or less than any teams they played. In other words, we did as good as or better against the best defenses on our schedule. In other words, you made a statement that just isn't correct.
Anyone will fully agree it's time to move on the to next level, i.e. ACC Championship. But attempting to lump all that on the OC as the reason we haven't gone is totally illogical and lacks reasoning. Was it Spence's fault we dropped the pass that would have put us in the ACC Championship last year? Obviously not. Was it Spence's playcalling that cost us a tipped INT TD, a punt return TD,a nd a kickoff return for a TD against VT. Hardly. Was it Spence's fault we drop TEN passes against GT and cost us any type of momentum in a close ballgame? No again.
So in a nutshell, you are not seeing the forest through the trees. The FACTS speak for themselves and cannot be disputed. You simply cannot lump our issues on the shoulders of the offensive playcaller. His work, again, speaks for itself in plain black and white.
As afar as three QBs.... check Proctor';s numbers and records. He did pretty darn good in spite of tightening up at the end of the year and not being able to complete a pass under pressure. Again, check the stats and let me know. And hey, there are TON more bullet points there to dispute if you want to focus in on only that one.
Pointing our Spence's REAL attributes is in no way, shape, or form 'cootlike' at all. Posting these FACTS is in direct response to simple-thinking people who blame the fact we haven't been to the championship game as all Rob Spence's fault. Again, the FACTS speak loud and clear. Nobody is trying to say "we're really ok" and I challenge you to show otherwise.
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Orange Blooded [2763]
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No, I think you are confused
May 5, 2008, 1:18 PM
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You again offer a defense of Spense. Go back and read my post - the first and last sentence is support for Spense. I don't hold him responsible for everything and in fact I think he's done a pretty fair job here.
But I don't buy for a second the story about every team has patsies and can run up their stats. Some do, some don't, some play those games differently. In short - what does it matter?
My entire point was this: the ONLY THING THAT MATTERS is an ACC Championship. That is why we play the game - so see who is the ACC Champion. All I read on T-Net is 'how many games will we win'? It doesn't matter - the only thing that matters is whether we won the games we needed to win to be champions.
So offensive stats that purport to show one thing when the final results say #4 in the ACC -- well sorry, but I think that is not a very good showing.
And finally, since you brought up Proctor - if you want to mount a defense of his performance go right ahead. I'll sit back in amusement while you get taken to school on that.
Now to be clear - one more time: I support Spense, I support Tommy, and I support the Tigers. The goal is ACC Championship - let's make this the year.
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Orange Blooded [2002]
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Those stats would be great if it would have helped us score
May 4, 2008, 7:12 PM
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some touchdowns against GT, VT, and BC.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Couple quick points....
May 5, 2008, 10:36 AM
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GT - 10 dropped passes prevented more scoring opportunities.
VT - We did better than most teams against their 4th rated defense. Offense was clearly not the reason we lost this game.
BC - We did as good as most teams against them. They had a very good defense too, and we dropped a 50 yard TD pass (GREAT playcall) that would have won the game.
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CU Guru [1893]
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Re: Rob Spence in OT games.
May 4, 2008, 8:41 PM
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Clemson is 0 for in OT games with Spence as the OC. In particular, the 2006 BC loss is truly galling. First and 10 at the 3, and Clemson loses the game. As the old saying goes, "statistics are for losers." When Spence actually defeats a better team, then I may change my mind. The stats are puffed up by killing weaker teams. Spence can't win games when Clemson is the underdog. Wins and losses are better evidence of coaching ability. Spence is not a good OC in my opinion.
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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This year will tell all
May 5, 2008, 1:04 AM
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can he teach the scheme to new oline? Can he coach the O to TD's not FG? Can we stop shooting ourselves in the foot on short yardage situations. If so, I will be a believer. If not...
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Orange Blooded [2775]
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Stats are great--they look great on paper....
May 5, 2008, 7:39 AM
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but rarely tell the whole story. I think most of us are frustrated that we see talent not being used at times. There seems to be a lack of abilty to modify the gameplan/offense within a half. Stats--you might want to look who we got all those points off of in 2006. We had a whole year to prepare for the same gameplan VT used and still looked totally unprepared. We totally abandoned the TE-in fact--we zeroed on one reciever. Either it's the play or the player...either way that's the OC's job to fix that stuff and it didn't get done---hence Auburn. I'm not looking to hang the guy but I am curious if I am the only one who observes these things---not!
Message was edited by: Watcher®
Message was edited by: Watcher®
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Rock Defender [54]
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