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CU Guru [1631]
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A Response to Pawless' "post of the day"....
Feb 10, 2007, 7:59 AM
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First thing, all you people who actually voted for this post proved your intelligence, or rather lack thereof, in regards to Clemson University.
Now to Mr. Pawless' post:
#1. Numerous credible sources (including the media goons) have confirmed that there was indeed an addendum. Secondly, Bobby Bowden committed a major violation by talking to the kid after he signed with Clemson, and thirdly, it has been reported that indeed it did affect his decision even so far as his mother calling our coaches when they received the LOI to ask about said addendum.
#2. The review board is nothing new. The make-up of the review board and the timing of the decisions and the stringency of their standards are. In fact, the board REJECTED NINE recruits that later signed with other schools (UNC, FSU, USC, UGA, Notre Dame). IT WANTED TO REJECTED SIX MORE RECRUITS BUT BOWDEN HAD TO BEG THEM TO LET US SIGN THEM.
#3. IF YOU CANNOT SEE THE OBVIOUS RECRUITING DISADVANTAGE WE ARE CURRENTLY UNDER, YOU ARE A FOOL.
It's a pretty simple scenario. Let's take Dwight Jones for example, a kid who already knows he is borderline. Butch Davis simply goes into his home and says, "Clemson won't sign you. They will not even give you a chance to qualify. Come to UNC, where we will give you the chance to qualify, and if you don't we will help you get to a prep school that can."
Pretty simple.
#4, You are right Bowden and crew do a great job evaluating talent. Just imagine how great these classes were if we were able to sign: Jo Jo Cox, Dwight Jones, Tydreke Powell, Ryan Houston, Brandon Paul, Weslye Saunders, Olufemi Ajiboye, Jarius Wynn, or Ian Williams. FYI, Ajiboye and Wynn early enrolled at their schools in January. If they're good enough for USC and UGA, they aren't good enough for Clemson?
Finally, on a bigger picture, what is Barker doing to our great university that TG Clemson created for the farmers and working people of South Carolina? Clemson was never meant to be Harvard or the like. TG Clemson is turning in his grave as Barker destroys our great university. Further, why does Barker to put on a public face of supporting the CUAD while he is destroy it behind closed doors. Why did Barker force the CUAD pay to repair the roof ON A BUILDING THE UNIVERSITY DOES NOT OWN? Why did Barker refuse to let the CUAD use the bond ceiling increase funds to finish the West End Zone? Instead he spends $14 million on some land in North Charleston and a friggin wastewater research committee.
Barker is killing our athletic department and our great university and you people who blindly support him are aiding and abetting his dispicable acts.
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CU Guru [1631]
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wastewater research facility, not committee******
Feb 10, 2007, 8:01 AM
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All-TigerNet [12269]
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JDH knows what he is talking about - Everyone read this!***
Feb 10, 2007, 8:06 AM
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CU Guru [1372]
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POTD!!!***
Feb 10, 2007, 8:06 AM
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Expert [1986]
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Great Post!***
Feb 10, 2007, 8:09 AM
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Expert [1986]
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Wastewater research is needed for managing CU Athletics
Feb 10, 2007, 8:13 AM
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...and it needs to be done in post haste because it is turning to chit sooner than later
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Orange Blooded [2272]
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WOW Nice Job!!!***
Feb 10, 2007, 8:13 AM
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Orange Blooded [2002]
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Tell it***
Feb 10, 2007, 8:15 AM
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Associate AD [813]
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Excellent points, except one.....
Feb 10, 2007, 8:25 AM
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Finally, on a bigger picture, what is Barker doing to our great university that TG Clemson created for the farmers and working people of South Carolina? Clemson was never meant to be Harvard or the like. TG Clemson is turning in his grave as Barker destroys our great university.
Regarding the quality of education and Clemson's place among its peers, you could not possibly be more wrong. Clemson is NOT, repeat NOT, trying to be Harvard. What President Barker IS trying to do is raise the bar at Clemson and make it better. He's trying to make Clemson a leader among the nation's public, research-based institutions. What you are essentially saying is that students of South Carolina, specifically those inclined to pursue agricultural and mechanical fields of study, won't be smart enough to attend Clemson if it's a Top 20 school.
TGC's Will says ...but to always bear in mind that the benefits herein sought to be bestowed are intended to benefit agricultural and mechanical industries.
Seems to me the best way to continually benefit those industries is by striving to produce better and better graduates that serve those industries.
It also says ...and should be a high seminary of learning in which the graduate of the common schools can commence...
It doesn't say a word about whether or not we should strive for the best graduates of those "common schools". Common sense dictates we should.
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CU Guru [1631]
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I respect your opinion and we shall agree to disagree...
Feb 10, 2007, 8:38 AM
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Barker is going at it the wrong way.....IMO....
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null [2145]
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How do you believe he should go about continually
Feb 10, 2007, 10:55 AM
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improving Clemson? I would assume you want it to continue to grow as an institution, but in a different manner.
What would your goals of Clemson be and how would you suggest we get there?
I am only asking this because of your strong convictions, which I respect. I think others might agree if you say what you want the institution to be and what it would look like. I don't think Clemson wants to be Harvard.
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CU Guru [1071]
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You disagree ONLY because you are choosing to be
Feb 10, 2007, 11:49 AM
[ in reply to I respect your opinion and we shall agree to disagree... ] |
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ignorant. At no time has Barker or anyone in the administration ever talked about competing with Harvard or ANY private school. It is impossible for me to believe that you and others are really so stupid as to believe what your posting. Your "ignorance" is deliberate and designed to deceive people.
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CU Guru [1631]
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Thanks for your opinion...
Feb 10, 2007, 11:51 AM
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#######...I'll put it in the circular file with the rest of them.....
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CU Guru [1071]
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That will be much easier for you than providing ANY facts
Feb 10, 2007, 11:54 AM
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to support your a$$inine claim that Barker wants Clemson to compete with Harvard.
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Commissioner [953]
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Farmers and working people are dumb???
Feb 10, 2007, 8:48 AM
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I don't have enough info to point fingers yet other than to say a major screw-up occurred and the President and AD better fix it now and must be honest with us.
But on the Top 20 Public University goal it amazes me that our own folks fall into the stereotypical view of S.C. residents. Are country people automatically dumb? Can S.C. students not elevate their educational level? Are you saying that as a state we are stupid and can never improve?
I don't buy it. And those "country" people that went to Clemson long ago and went on to do great things are some of the smartest folks I know. In their day they were considered the bright students in our state. Clemson was hard back in the day plus it was military. It has never been a school that anyone off the street could just walk into and graduate from without brains and effort.
Clemson has always been a leader. Clemson is trying to lead our state out of its educational stupor. To think that we can't have a goal of a Top 20 PUBLIC university (not Harvard, not Duke, not Stanford) because our citizens can't improve is sad. If UGA can be a Top 20 Public University, then we can as well.
Sure there are many factors that have to improve, but it is a worthy goal. To use this obvious foul-up as an indictment of the goal is wrong. Implementation may be out of whack in this case, but I don't think this sports related problem overshadows the amazing things the pursuit of the Top 20 goal is doing for Clemson.
I guess in short, I want it all and demand it all. We can be Top 20 in both sports and academics IF we fix these problems and move forward.
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CU Guru [1631]
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Wow...please show me where I called farmers dumb....
Feb 10, 2007, 8:56 AM
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In fact I grew up in one of the poorest counties in SC and spend countless days of my youth working on the farm......
If you don't think Barker's agenda, including his signficant tuition increases (while sitting on a $120million cash reserve), is preventing many SC kids from attending Clemson you are kidding yourself.
Heck, even Barker would not stand a chance of getting in Clemson under the current standards.....
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Commissioner [953]
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65% in-state/35% out-of-state has not changed in ~2 decades
Feb 10, 2007, 9:17 AM
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Well...help me better understand this statement then:
"Finally, on a bigger picture, what is Barker doing to our great university that TG Clemson created for the farmers and working people of South Carolina? Clemson was never meant to be Harvard or the like. TG Clemson is turning in his grave as Barker destroys our great university."
That didn't mean that due to Barker's academic goals, farmers and working people couldn't get into Clemson?
And you didn't mention the cost of tuition in your first post which I agree is a major problem for many of our students in the state. But I don't see that as a problem the current Clemson administration created. We need to look to our elected officials, including Gov. Sanford.
As for the admissions, check out the facts: Clemson admits a greater percentage of state students now than it did 10 years ago.
http://cworld.clemson.edu/archive/2006/spring06/presview.htm
Myth No. 1: The quality of the student body is increasing because we?re taking in more out-of-state students at the expense of South Carolinians.
Fact: The enrollment mix of 65 percent in-state and 35 percent out-of-state has not changed in almost two decades. Today, Clemson accepts more S.C. students than ever. In 1997, just over 50 percent of S.C. applicants were accepted for admission; today, it?s nearly 70 percent. The quality of in-state applicants has increased significantly. The average SAT score of S.C. students has risen 16 points since 2002, narrowing the gap between the in-state and out-of-state student profile. Overall, the increase in quality at Clemson is being driven by in-state students.
Message was edited by: TigerMo®
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CU Guru [1071]
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96JDH is going to keep making things up to recruit
Feb 10, 2007, 11:52 AM
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folks to his cause. Facts do not interest him in the slightest.
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All-Pro [686]
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Re: ADDENDUM....
Feb 10, 2007, 9:24 AM
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I'm not aware of what the addendum was? Can someone enlighten me? Also, where did we get the info that the mother called to ask about the addendum?
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null [2145]
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There were rumors about Clemson sticking on something
Feb 10, 2007, 10:44 AM
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with regards to grades/scores and how it would affect the LOI, I believe.
The thing is, an LOI is invalid if a school adds any contingency onto it. If the school did so, that kid is allowed to sign and enroll at any school. The reason that schools aren't allowed to put contingencies into the agreement is that it would create a mess unlike any other known if a kid signed an LOI with one school with an adendum saying one thing, sign an additional LOI saying something else with the next school, and on and on. The NCAA only validates uniform LOI's.
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null [2145]
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Excuse me....its not the NCAA that validates the NLI, its
Feb 10, 2007, 10:57 AM
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the CCA which the ACC is a voluntary member of.
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null [2145]
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So, TG would have been stuck in his ways and would
Feb 10, 2007, 10:31 AM
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think that Clemson shouldn't change with the times.......the economics of the state, country and world have changed greatly since Clemson was founded. Something tells me that a leader such as TG would have figured out a way to keep Clemson moving forward and at the cusp of new economic times.
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Oculus Spirit [97823]
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Regarding #3....that's not exactly how it happened
Feb 10, 2007, 10:32 AM
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Butch Davis didn't have time to meet with Jones to tell him "Clemson won't sign you" because Clemson only made the decision not to sign him the day before signing day.
Excellent post nonetheless
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CU Guru [1631]
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That was an EXAMPLE of what WILL happen******
Feb 10, 2007, 10:37 AM
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Oculus Spirit [97823]
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Ahh...then that would be an improvement....I guess
Feb 10, 2007, 11:35 AM
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At least then he would know at least 24 hours before he has to sign a LOI.
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CU Guru [1071]
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The idea that Thomas Green Clemson is rolling over in his
Feb 10, 2007, 11:46 AM
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grave is a$$inine. Study his career. Read his will. "High seminary of learning" sounds much more like Barker's vision of Clemson University than the academic joke schools like FSU or the rent-a-thug-for-3 or 4 years schools like Miami.
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