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Mascot [5090]
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The truly sad thing is, I think a lot of people around here
Jun 4, 2009, 11:09 AM
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would be happier to see Clemson named the #1 Party school than the #1 Public University.
God forbid we try to improve the quality of education at a university.
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Legend [18800]
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And your point is?***
Jun 4, 2009, 11:11 AM
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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I'm sure Stanford is shaking in its birkenstocks
Jun 4, 2009, 11:12 AM
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right now.
To be honest, I'd rather Clemson win a NC than be #1 public university, although both seem impossible right now.
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Mascot [5090]
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We should be shooting for both.
Jun 4, 2009, 11:16 AM
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Clemson is first and foremost a university whose mission is to educate. Sports are an integral part of that but they are never more important than the university on the whole.
Why do so many people believe it has to be one or the other?
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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It doesn't....but for all its virtues
Jun 4, 2009, 11:18 AM
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remember that Clemson is a land grant university in a (once)rural area of a largely rural state. It's job has been and should be the education of the citizens of this state. Its job should not be to pursue perceived prestige and forget about these state students.
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Mascot [5090]
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The percentage of students that come from South Carolina has
Jun 4, 2009, 11:21 AM
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not changed in a very, very long time. We are educating any fewer number of SC students. We are pursuing the best and brightest of those that come from in-state and adding to their education by exposing them to view points and opinions that come from people from all over. That "perceived prestige" is a benefit to all current, former and future students at the University. You say "Stanford is shaking in their boots." They aren't, nor should they be as we will never be on the level of a Stanford. But, why do you think a Stanford degree is so highly valued? Its because of the reputation of the University.
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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I said their birkenstocks :^(). We will educate fewer
Jun 4, 2009, 11:28 AM
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students from s carolina.
Stanford degrees are highly valued because of the quality of the education, not by "gaming" the perception of the University.
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All-In [34652]
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Amateur [35]
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The problem this is presenting...
Jun 4, 2009, 11:58 AM
[ in reply to The percentage of students that come from South Carolina has ] |
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is not so much the percentage of SC students, but the type of students we are excluding. I know MANY succesful, dedicated Clemson grads that wouldn't even get a sniff from the Admission's Dept today. That's a shame, because they are good people who bring value to the University. There is nothing wrong with wanting to improve the quality of education, but not at the expense of excluding the types of students who have historically built this University!
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CU Medallion [67983]
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funny when an expose like this rankings thing hits....
Jun 4, 2009, 11:21 AM
[ in reply to I'm sure Stanford is shaking in its birkenstocks ] |
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...it is usually about Clemson. I'd love to see us have much savier media management but I've given yp on that. Of course we can produce any obscure CU swports related fact but that's it.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: Exposed hell. That is just one ugly broad's opinion.
Jun 4, 2009, 1:09 PM
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Everybody has one.
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Commissioner [991]
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We are not interested in the quality of education
Jun 4, 2009, 11:22 AM
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We are interested in the perception of it, ie rankings. If you talk to most professors around campus, all they hear about is trying to improve to a top 20 school...it is ground into their heads at every turn. You dont hear about providing students with a good education, you hear that number 20 over and over. As I said before, I saw several good professors run off simply because they did not bring in enough Research money. Now more classes are being taught by grad students, but I guess that is in the interest of higher quality education.
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Enthusiast [84]
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Re: We are not interested in the quality of education
Jun 4, 2009, 11:27 AM
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We have raised the quality of education at Clemson! Class sizes are smaller, we have better faculty because of the higher compensation, and we have more academic support for students than ever before. Clemson has not just pursued these rankings on paper, they have achieved real results in the classroom. Don't let your nonsensical hatred for all things Barker blind you to the results being actually produced.
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Orange Blooded [3599]
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Re: The truly sad thing is, I think a lot of people around here
Jun 4, 2009, 11:23 AM
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There is a difference between trying to improve the quality of education and trying to improve a ranking.
No one faults any university for trying to improve the quality of its education.
But Barker has beaten these rankings over the head of everyone as the standard by which to measure Clemson's progress. For them to now be exposed(at least in part) as a sham discredits his credibility.
Combine that with the $80 million shell game (along with concurrent tuition increases out of "necessity"), and I think there has been a pretty serious blow to the administration's credibility. Sounds like the faculty has had this view for awhile as well.
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110%er [6592]
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enough already! lets move on! has been discussed to death
Jun 4, 2009, 11:28 AM
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unhashing the same points over and over. We have a super regional coming up!
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Enthusiast [100]
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No...
Jun 4, 2009, 11:29 AM
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I just think a lot of people are fed up with not winning a freakin ACC title since 1991, and want Clemson to be able to compete on a level playing field with other programs athletically.
That's how I feel anyway.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Thank God for rationality***
Jun 4, 2009, 11:32 AM
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110%er [6169]
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I don't understand why you equate "education" to a number
Jun 4, 2009, 11:33 AM
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I have two parents, an aunt, an uncle, and a brother, along with numerous friends, who received degrees from Clemson before it was Top 20. Did they all of the sudden receive a lesser education because US News says Clemson wasn't as good back then as it is now?
Buying into this Top 20 crap is ruining Clemson. Neither Auburn nor Alabama are in the Top 20, but if you try and get a job in the state of Alabama, is a Clemson degree going to trump a candidate from either of the in-state schools with the same student record as you? You're dreaming if you think so.
Please tell me what a Top 20 degree will get me that a non-Top 20 degree won't.
I went to Arizona State my freshman year for college. I transferred beceause I missed home. Despite ASU's lower ranking than Clemson, I really can't find much difference between the quality of education there and the education I get here.
If anything, more people will consider ASU's degree more valuable simply because it's not from a school in the South.
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Enthusiast [84]
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Re: I don't understand why you equate "education" to a numbe
Jun 4, 2009, 11:38 AM
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How is is ruining Clemson if students love the university even more? How can that be a negative?
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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You honestly believe that students love clemson even
Jun 4, 2009, 11:43 AM
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more since it is in the top 20?
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All-TigerNet [14921]
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Do we get a better Clemson education now then your family
Jun 4, 2009, 12:26 PM
[ in reply to I don't understand why you equate "education" to a number ] |
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did back then? Yes, I think so. I too have family that graduated from Clemson and they all agree that it is a much better school today than it was then.
As for the Bama/Auburn thing, outside of The US News and World report, I'm sure people will also tell you, objectively, that Clemson is a MUCH better school than either of those. Do the rankings show it? Yes. Is it true without the rankings? Absolutely. So maybe I am dreaming but (and Alabama is probably a bad state to think this) I like to think I live in a world where people with degrees from better institutions get hired. That means, all things equal, Clemson grad over Auburn/Bama anyday.
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110%er [5630]
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You are both assuming that people have no biases and
Jun 4, 2009, 2:25 PM
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have a wealth of knowledge about all 3 schools at their disposal.
I dare say though that both Alabama and Auburn have more general 'cache' than Clemson to the average person in the country.
Guess where that 'cache' comes from... the athletics of each school. As it has been stated by people numerous times... Athletics is the Front Porch of the University. They must be competitive in order to give a good impression to the casual observer. And it is the casual observer that you are ineterested in impressing. The non-casual observer, ie the person who already knows everything they need to know about he schools, have their minds made up anyway.
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Legend [19208]
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Since this is a sports board the majority on here
Jun 4, 2009, 11:36 AM
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(as opposed to some academic forum) would like to see Clemson in the national championship hunt in football, basketball, and baseball (as well as other sports). Why. Because this is a Clemson sports board!
GO TIGERS!!!
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Legend [19610]
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I'm a fan, not a grad. While I want to see Clemson succeed
Jun 4, 2009, 11:36 AM
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academically, the real reason I was drawn to the Tigers was because of Clemson sports, the beautiful campus and the stadium.
Frankly I'd be embarrassed to pull for a UNLV-like team and I take pride in high athletic graduation rates. But at the same time, I really don't want, as a fan, to see Clemson turn into a place where great athletes get turned away. And I know it will be difficult to succeed if we start having the same academic standards as an Ivy league school.
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All-TigerNet [14921]
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See I have no problem with you saying that because you don't
Jun 4, 2009, 12:33 PM
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have a degree from Clemson. I completely understand your position. But some people on here need to recognize that a lot of us do and want that still to mean something. I love Clemson sports as much as the next guy (missed 1 home football game in the last 4 years) but I went to Clemson UNIVERSITY not Clemson Sports College.
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110%er [6219]
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I don't understand how we're the #22 public college
Jun 4, 2009, 12:40 PM
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in the country when this board is the biggest collection of idiots on the internet. The sad thing is that I post here, so it doesn't say much about my standing.
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110%er [6219]
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And one other thing... While we're at it....
Jun 4, 2009, 12:43 PM
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I support Tommy Bowden!
[Insert long, stat-manipulating defense of mediocrity here]
Now give me some points.
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110%er [5636]
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I support him too...
Jun 4, 2009, 12:44 PM
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doing whatever it is he's doing today
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