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Oculus Spirit [83125]
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All-In [46825]
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Meh. It definately hurts, but not as much as
May 14, 2019, 8:37 AM
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foreign investors in major cities buying up properties to hold as an investment then place a ridiculous price tag on it.
Then when other houses are appraised and appraisers look for similar houses in the market and all of the similar are 150% over what it should be because of these foreign investors, all housing prices go up.
That's a broad generalization but I'm still not awake yet.
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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foreign investors aren't buying up blocks of houses
May 14, 2019, 11:53 AM
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I mean unless like me, you consider people from Cleveland to be foreigners.
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Oculus Spirit [97727]
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Well, between our student debt, our housing debt, our credit
May 14, 2019, 9:39 AM
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card debt, our corporate debt, and our government debt, I'd say none of it matters when inflation skyrockets all the way up to 5-6% or so. Then we're all broke.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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What is a 'normal,' housing market?***
May 14, 2019, 10:39 AM
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Oculus Spirit [97727]
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Simple. It's what we don't have.
May 14, 2019, 10:42 AM
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Get interest rates back up to 6-10% and you will see a normal housing market again.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: Simple. It's what we don't have.
May 14, 2019, 11:21 AM
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Yes and a byproduct would be that people that have savings would get a decent return on their money without the risk of Wall Street. Many older folks are being screwed by the extremely low rates their money is earning, once you reach a certain age ones appetite for risk goes way down. Nothing like feeling you are putting your life savings down on 33 Black.
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Heisman Winner [111614]
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Re: Student Debt Preventing U.S. From Having a Normal Housing
May 14, 2019, 10:57 AM
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obviously the solution is to reward housing developers with incentives and tax breaks, instead of just addressing the issue.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: Student Debt Preventing U.S. From Having a Normal Housing
May 14, 2019, 11:18 AM
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It has been addressed already, you borrowed it and now you must pay it back. Do not like too bad for you. The reason it is not able to be discharged in BK is there was no collateral, your degree is the collateral( if you bombed out then the life lesson is your collateral) and I would be willing to forgive the debt if any record of any degree is expunged from the record. The only concession that should be made is to lower the interest rate but forgiving it is just ludicrous. I paid for my kids , they got out debt free and if they forgive it I want a rebate!.
The idea of allowing a loan for University in itself is ludicrous without rules that account for ability to pay it back. Like what a degree will pay, job prospects, whether it is a private University( prestige envy) because as currently constructed it is stupid at best and foolish for most to borrow huge sums .
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Student Debt Preventing U.S. From Having a Normal Housing
May 14, 2019, 12:20 PM
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You generally can't discharge student loan debt in Chapter 7 or 13,but not because of collateral. You can wipe out unsecured debt in bankruptcy. Why do you just make up stuff so often?
The reason is because government writes its own rules. It's the same reason that if you hire someone, you can't discriminate by age, but certain federal agencies require you be younger than 37. When you write the rules, you get to do whatever you want.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: Student Debt Preventing U.S. From Having a Normal Housing
May 14, 2019, 12:33 PM
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No, unsecured debt does not mean you get to keep all the stuff in BK. Courts can and do order assets sold to repay unsecured debt in BK, the sole reason that student debt is not dischargeble is there is nothing to sell to repay debt. Do try again.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Student Debt Preventing U.S. From Having a Normal Housing
May 14, 2019, 12:58 PM
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Lol! Exempt and nonexempt assets in a foreclosure has nothing to do with whether you used an unsecured loan to acquire them. The things you can be required to sell in a bankruptcy are things of significant value that aren't needed for your business.
Now with secured loans, if you discharge the loan, you usually must sell the collateral.
Do you honestly think courts are making you sell everyday assets you bought with credit cards?
Also, it is possible to discharge student loans. It's just extremely difficult.
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CU Guru [1907]
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Student Debt Preventing U.S. From Having a Normal Housing
May 14, 2019, 1:21 PM
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Thanks for posting that and saving me the trouble. Now point to where it says your unsecured debt must be repaid using the things you bought with the unsecured debt.
Even if you Google the definition of unsecured debt, the definition proves my point:
In finance, unsecured debt refers to any type of debt or general obligation that is not protected by a guarantor, or collateralized by a lien on specific assets of the borrower in the case of a bankruptcy or liquidation or failure to meet the terms for repayment
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: Student Debt Preventing U.S. From Having a Normal Housing
May 14, 2019, 1:31 PM
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You need to read them and also comprehend what you are reading first. Big first step right there CU17
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Student Debt Preventing U.S. From Having a Normal Housing
May 14, 2019, 2:26 PM
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I understand it perfectly. Please show me in your links where you must sell the things you bought with unsecured debt to pay back creditors in a bankruptcy.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: Student Debt Preventing U.S. From Having a Normal Housing
May 14, 2019, 2:48 PM
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Unsecured creditors cannot take any property to satisfy their debts. Instead, they typically have to file a lawsuit against you and win before they can initiate collection proceedings. If you have any nonexempt property, the trustee will take it, sell it, and distribute the proceeds to your unsecured creditors. (If the property is the security for a debt, the secured creditor will be paid first. For example, if you owe $5,000 on a car that's worth $9,000, the holder of your car note will receive its $5,000, and the remaining $4,000 will be distributed to your unsecured creditors.) Unsecured creditors are paid in order of priority. Priority debts are those that, for public policy reasons, are repaid first.
The "best interest of creditors" test calculates the minimum amount you must pay to your nonpriority unsecured creditors through your Chapter 13 plan. The test ensures that creditors will not be disadvantaged just because you filed for Chapter 13 rather than Chapter 7 bankruptcy. If you can't repay this minimum amount, the court will not confirm your Chapter 13 plan (which means you won’t be able to proceed with your case). The amount that you must pay unsecured creditors is the greater of your disposable income (discussed above) or the value of your nonexempt property (property that a bankruptcy exemption doesn’t protect). In essence, your creditors will always get at least an amount equal to your nonexempt property, regardless of whether you file for Chapter 7 or 13 bankruptcy—and even more if your disposable income exceeds the value of your nonexempt property. However, the way creditors get paid for your nonexempt property differs depending on the chapter that you file. Nonexempt property in Chapter 7 bankruptcy. In a Chapter 7 bankruptcy, you’re allowed to keep the property you’ll need to work and live using bankruptcy exemptions. The Chapter 7 bankruptcy trustee sells any nonexempt property and uses the proceeds to pay unsecured creditors (both priority and general unsecured creditors). Nonexempt property in Chapter 13 bankruptcy. By contrast, the Chapter 13 bankruptcy trustee won’t sell any of your property—but that’s not to say that you’ll get a windfall of sorts. You’ll have to pay for your nonexempt property in your Chapter 13 repayment plan. This system ensures that unsecured creditors receive virtually the same amount in both a Chapter 7 and a Chapter 13 bankruptcy.
1. The Collateral For Your Student Loan Debt Is Your Future Earnings When you buy a car and get a car loan, the collateral for the car loan is the value of the car. If you don’t make your monthly payments, the bank simply repossesses your car. The same is true for a house and a mortgage. You don’t pay your mortgage, the bank forecloses on your house.
So when you take on student loans, what do you think the collateral is? Just goodwill? No, the collateral on your student loans in your ability to earn money in the future. If you fail to pay back your loans, the lender (either the government or bank) can garnish your wages, garnish your Social Security, and even offset and take your tax refund.
This is the key reason why, for the most part, student loans aren’t dischargeable in bankruptcy. Bankruptcy helps liquidate your assets to repay your debt and cancels the rest if you really can’t repay it. But with student loans, as long as you have the ability to earn, you have the ability to pay something. It’s also the key reason why there is student loan forgiveness for being disabled – you simply can’t earn any more money to repay the loans.
So, when you take out student loans, you need to calculate your ROI (return on investment) and ensure that you can repay the debt.
Summerized from all 3 links for you. While they may not be able to grab food,gas or other items but large purchases made for tangible property are subject to being taken and siezed then sold by court order. Yes, the unsecured creditors must seek a judgement and that depends upon how they view it from a ROI perspective but to say that they are unable is just plain wrong.Hope that helps you to understand.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Student Debt Preventing U.S. From Having a Normal Housing
May 14, 2019, 2:53 PM
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Of course it helps me to understand, because it proves my point. Thanks, I guess.
There's a lot of crazy stuff on Tnet, but you're the only poster I know who will go to great lengths to prove himself wrong and then crow about it.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: Student Debt Preventing U.S. From Having a Normal Housing
May 14, 2019, 2:56 PM
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Actually it does not prove your point, it does exactly the opposite in fact. Depending upon how the unsecured creditor views the debt they can file, if they win they do get to take assets.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Student Debt Preventing U.S. From Having a Normal Housing
May 14, 2019, 3:38 PM
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It has NOTHING to do with whether the unsecured debt was used to purchase those assets. Exempt and nonexempt assets are defined by statute or administrative rulemaking.
Unsecured debt means it's unsecured by lien or collateral. And you're trying to argue it's secured by collateral.
Are you crazy?
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CU Guru [1907]
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All-In [31896]
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Sorry, but that's not correct...
May 14, 2019, 1:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: Student Debt Preventing U.S. From Having a Normal Housing ] |
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student loans are more difficult to dispose of in bankruptcy because they are largely federally backed. Based on the changes Congress made in 2005, to discharge student loads in bankruptcy, you have to prove that the payments place undue hardship, which is a tough bar to clear. Federal student loans offer income-based payment plans, which actually make it harder to prove undue hardship. Private loans don't normally offer such payment plans, so they are a little easier to dispose of, but still quite difficult.
It has absolutely nothing to do with being secured or not.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: Sorry, but that's not correct...
May 14, 2019, 1:32 PM
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True,basically it means that as long as you have an ability to earn then it must be paid or make a good faith effort to pay.
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Orange Blooded [3520]
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Re: Student Debt Preventing U.S. From Having a Normal Housing
Jun 4, 2015, 12:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: Student Debt Preventing U.S. From Having a Normal Housing ] |
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I sorta agree with you in principle on being responsible and making good decisions...but, I think that assumes we all come from a place that sets us up for success in the first place.
I don't know your situation, but I've heard many folks brag about being able to pay for their kids education without loans/help...come to find out, they themselves didn't have any student loans because their parents were able to pay. That's a huge head start for the next generation...an advantage that many just don't have.
Plus...you didn't really address balms statement regarding tax breaks and incentives for builders/developers. We already pick winners/losers here in the US through tax policy, subsidies, etc...why not redirect some of that directly to the consumer level?
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: Student Debt Preventing U.S. From Having a Normal Housing
May 14, 2019, 1:50 PM
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Well, since Balm attempted the old move the spotlight trick it was not worth responding to in fact. The OP was on student debt and that is an entirely different subject that Balm went right to deflect the old glare.
Look, bottom line is that only roughly $150 billion in student loans are private, leaving the bulk $1.1T to the Federal Student Loan program. That is an amount that is either paid back by borrowers or the taxpaying public at large must eat. No matter how much mustard one puts on that dookie sammich I do not want a bite of it.
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All-In [31896]
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There are way too many people coming out of....
May 14, 2019, 11:43 AM
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college with debt levels that equate to a starter home mortgage payment, so I think it's reasonable to presume that that has an impact on the housing market.
I do not agree at all with having the debt relieved though...certainly not a wiping of the debt with the taxpayers paying for it.
The real problem is that too many people are going to expensive universities for degrees that don't carry the salary opportunity to justify the debt level (conceding for argument's sake that that is a valid line of reasoning) AND it costs too much to go to many universities.
Until we address those 2 issues, the situation isn't going to get better.
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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people buy stoopid #### all of the time
May 14, 2019, 1:53 PM
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some are upside down in car loans,
some overpay for real estate
And some pay for stoopid college degrees.
Its not the taxpayers' fault that the consumer made a poor decision.
One only needs to look at a career choice and decide if the educational and economic investment is going to pay off.
Following your passion is for #######. Get a JOB
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All-In [31896]
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yes but what can change is the amount that...
May 14, 2019, 3:56 PM
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the gov backs relative to the earning potential of the degree.
Or the amount a private lender loans based on the earning potential of the degree.
Better yet though...a decent college education ought to be a LOT cheaper. I think many of the state universities have lot their focus on their main objectives.
Also, if you look specifically at Clemson...are the students really getting that much better of an education as compared to 30 years ago? The living standards are definitely much higher, the buildings are much nicer, and the food is much better.
Would be an interesting exercise if we could give recent graduates that now have $100k of debt and a marketing degree the option of doing it all over with conditions like they were 30 years ago and coming out with $20k of debt.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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100% Agree.
May 14, 2019, 3:27 PM
[ in reply to There are way too many people coming out of.... ] |
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I'd add that loans have increased which has great effect on the cost of college. It may be predatory lending but the universities are up to their earballs with guilt. The price of college and maximum loan amounts are a chicken and egg type thing. Saying the gov. did the dirty deed is just wrong. Gov is stupid with spending but these were loans not loan sharking with high interest rates.
No, don't change a thing.
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All-In [40934]
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Legend [15749]
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If Warren forgives student loans, what do I get?
May 14, 2019, 11:48 AM
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If I didn’t go into massive debt or paid it all off, what’s my reward?
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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Your share of taxes increases
May 14, 2019, 11:51 AM
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YOUR WELCOME!
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Legend [15749]
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Seriously, it disgusts me that not only do people support
May 14, 2019, 10:48 PM
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this type of plan, but some demand it with self-righteousness. At least have some sense of shame about your hope that the government would take my money to pay the debt you willingly took on.
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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Same as mine for paying my mortgage on time and not
May 14, 2019, 12:04 PM
[ in reply to If Warren forgives student loans, what do I get? ] |
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buying 4 times the house that I could afford.
The housing bail out did nothing for me except keep a false market afloat.
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Legend [15749]
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If Warren forgives student loans, what do I get?
May 14, 2019, 11:49 AM
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If I didn’t go into massive debt or paid it all off, what’s my reward?
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: If Warren forgives student loans, what do I get?
May 14, 2019, 2:54 PM
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A hardy handshake and thank you comrade. In essence there is no free anywhere in the world, never has been and never will. In the EU right at 63% of each unit of currency earned is taken in some form of tax/fee. While you may not right a check for tuition you are gonna pay for it over your entire life of earning. VAT in the EU runs 13%-28% depending upon what good or service you buy, gas taxes run $1USD to a high of $3.49 USD in Germany. Gotta love that free stuff I tell you.
The govt. may send a suppoly of KY to makes it less painful though. One can only hope!
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Don't click on this post cause the solution is inside.
May 14, 2019, 6:37 PM
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Determine a real value to all the diplomas Universities are passing out like peanuts. Make the graduates pay only the real value of what they got and make the Universities pay the balance.
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Legend [15749]
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I don’t understand. Unless a University falsely claimed that
May 14, 2019, 10:44 PM
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the 17th Century Central European Literature degree they offered would result in six-figure job offers right out of college, why is it their fault?
I had a friend who went to Duke, studied math and became a school teacher. Should her decision to pursue a less lucrative career be on Duke?
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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It took three to make the student loan process a mess.
May 15, 2019, 1:00 PM
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The gov is culpable for raising the maximum loan amount. The kids are culpable for borrowing money to get degrees which won't give them a respectable ROI but allow them to 'find themselves.' The Universities are guilty of the continual price gouging and exhausting the loan max.
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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Thought it was the avacado toast***
May 14, 2019, 11:07 PM
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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Thought it was the avacado toast***
May 14, 2019, 11:07 PM
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Replies: 41
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