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Oculus Spirit [97898]
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This post is a followup to a PnR post from the weekend
Feb 19, 2024, 8:40 AM
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gosmitty would probably be interested. Figured I'd stick this in here.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/largest-covid-vaccine-study-yet-finds-links-to-health-conditions/ar-BB1iuvvi
Again, every adverse event is also an adverse reaction to the virus. The vaccine IS THE virus. The virus is nasty. The vaccine is much LESS nasty, but it's still nasty. The virus is 100 times more nasty, across the board, for almost every adverse reaction. NO ADVERSE REACTION LISTED is 1) an adverse reaction to the vaccine that the virus also doesn't cause and 2) NO ADVERSE REACTION LISTED happens more in the vaccine than in the virus. Heck, no adverse reaction from the vaccine happens 2% as much as happens when you get the virus.
This is why I have always followed the virus closely. Know the virus, and you understand the risk. Believe lies about the virus, and you will not understand the vaccine risk. The biggest lesson public health officials have learned is NEVER TO LIE ABOUT THE VIRUS. They did at first to keep calm and order (ostensibly). They said it isn't airborne. A lie. Did not transmit as an aerosol. A lie. Mutates slowly. A lie. You'd get lifetime immunity (and eventually herd immunity), a lie. Remember Fauci guesstimating if a certain percentage of people got the virus it would go away? He was lying and he knew it. Then you have the omissions. They never told people you have a 10% chance of getting myocarditis from the virus. Ohio State University did a study and found that and were going to cancel their football season over it, but that study was debunked, attacked, and they played anyway for the money. 10% showed evidence of myocarditis (per MRI scans which are more sensitive). TEN PERCENT of college athletes. Now .01% get it from the vaccine. Anyway, that was largely an omission. They didn't mention covid reactivates latent viruses as it damages your immune system. This includes herpes, and GBS, among others. Not mentioned. Got to keep people calm. They pretended long covid was some new mysterious syndrome. It isn't. There was long SARS documented in 2009 with the SAME symptoms. Almost 1/3 of healthcare workers who got and survived SARS in 2003, NEVER WORKED AGAIN. They never mentioned the virus literally changes your blood, and causes clots. It does, MUCH more often than the vaccines of the same virus.
People were never given adequate information to make a proper risk assessment. Leaders just assume people will follow their advice after hearing them tell lies. Doesn't work that way.
Early in the pandemic a scientist said something that has proven true. He studied the virus in an academic setting in another part of the world that doesn't give a crap about US politics. He said "Rare infections will become less rare and common infections will become more severe and present differently." And this is what is happening. Measles is back. TB is back. Strep A is killing record numbers of children. Monkeypox came out of nowhere and is now endemic. RSV has become more common and severe. Same with influenza.
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All-In [34725]
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Oculus Spirit [97898]
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Why is the guy on the left wearing a skirt?***
Feb 19, 2024, 9:40 AM
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Orange Blooded [2126]
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Wow, there's a lot here to respond to....
Feb 19, 2024, 3:40 PM
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One reason that "measles is back" is because many people are now not getting their children vaccinated. The anti-vaxx crowd has muscled their way into the conversation now, and it's not just about the Covid vaccine, but about other vaccines as well.
I would note that there's a difference between a "lie" and something that changes in our understanding that requires us to update guidance. I think you're conflating the two a little bit.
First, let's give an example of a lie:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/28/trump-says-he-still-thinks-hydroxychloroquine-works-in-treating-early-stage-coronavirus.html
Trump was pushing the hydroxychloroquine even though he knew it was a quack remedy for this purpose.
Stone cold pack of lies.
Now, here's an example where an update was made to guidance (not a lie, but a new understanding):
https://www.cnn.com/factsfirst/politics/factcheck_e58c20c6-8735-4022-a1f5-1580bc732c45
Fauci initially downplayed the need to wear masks, and later changed his view. This was because there was a mask shortage at first, and also this was before it became apparent how asymptomatic the spread was for this virus. People could get infected with no symptoms, and they could spread the virus when they were asymptomatic. Once that became apparent, the guidance on masks changed, including from Fauci. That's not a lie. That's an update in guidance.
I do think Fauci lied about herd immunity, although I think it needs context. When he was talking about herd immunity, he always was unsure of what level of vaccination would give us true herd immunity, so he stated it as a range. Where he lied, he initially said 60-70%, and then later he moved it to 70-90%. I think part of this was to get more people to sign up for the vaccinations. I'd contrast this to Trump who was pushing quack remedies, making fun of masks, and making statements about the virus that was causing people to intentionally do the more dangerous things.
If you're going to talk about who did the most damage with their lies about the pandemic, I'd throw in Trump along with the anti-vaxx (mostly right-wing) crowd.
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Oculus Spirit [97898]
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Public health lied the most, in an opposite direction, which gave the
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Feb 20, 2024, 10:33 AM
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anti-vax movement all the ammo they needed. And between public health's lies, and also omissions, this leaves ample ignorance for anti-vaxers to thrive.
One thing I've seen a lot of in the anti-vax community are all these stories and pictures from autopsies and funeral homes of these fibrous, long, solid, white clots that are removed from the vessels of dead people. Most blood clots are red, and white, fibrous clots have always been very rare, until covid (vaccines say others).
One of the things they're learning about the virus is that it infects macrophages throughout the body. I've even posted a picture of it doing just that. With alveolar macrophages in the lungs, specifically in the example I posted a while back. When covid infects these macrophages it causes inflammation, but otherwise the virus just resides in them as a carrier. This allows the virus, in a benign form, to access the entire human body essentially. But in the lungs, the reason so many people have breathing issues long term is because of the damage caused by the residual virus setting up camp in macrophages in the lungs. This is why a large percentage of people (roughly 40%) have some type of permanent lung damage after even mild infections. Macrophages are present throughout the body, but covid seems to prefer infecting some easier and more frequently than others (mostly in the lungs and heart). This can in time lead to pulmonary fibrosis over time (my barber's wife died from this 2 years after she got covid).
Back to the white, fibrous clots. They are real. They are bad. And they are deadly. And....they're caused by the latent infection of macrophages in the circulatory system. And like the macrophages that are infected in the lungs, they cause fibrosis, in the arteries and veins. These are the long, stiff, fibrous clots removed from many people's vessels after death. Now the anti-vaxers will say vaccines cause this, but the study below they observe the virus itself doing this, the same way it does it in the lungs. Oh, and once again they observed the infection of macrophages using techniques developed studying HIV, which also infects immune cells (CD4 T cells specifically for HIV).
Read up...
https://www.nature.com/articles/s44161-023-00336-5
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Orange Blooded [2126]
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Trump lied the most, and it's not even close....
Feb 20, 2024, 1:28 PM
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That's what gave ammo to the anti-vaxxers, as he gave his followers license to hate and attack Fauci and others.
Thanks for linking the study. It's an interesting read. Alot of people with that type of inflammation have long covid, and the virus remains a risk to them.
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Oculus Spirit [97898]
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The CDC, and their parade of directors, lied the most.
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Feb 20, 2024, 2:03 PM
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Fauci basically omitted, and dodged, and qualified everything. Listening to Fauci talk about covid was like watching a Bill Clinton deposition about a BJ.
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All-TigerNet [12657]
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...And he's still trying to be clever by half
Feb 21, 2024, 9:06 AM
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Fauci has parsed his words on what is gain of function research.
He demonized those who early on theorized the virus may have originated in the Wuhan lab.
He pitched non science with his double masking discussion.
He now acts as if he had nothing to do with school closures, again treating the subject in a Clintonian fashion. He's correct that he never ordered the closure of a single school or even had the power to do so, but his recommendations certainly led to school administrators closing schools and keeping them closed. He should man up and own that.
He now says he is not convinced that the drop in education achievement is related to schools being closed. What pray tell then caused this precipitous drop in such a short time?
Initially there was a lot that was unknown, but so much more is known now.
My biggest beef with Fauci, the CDC and the FDA is that the focus was too one sided on reducing COVID infections instead of seeking a balance between dealing with COVID while simultaneously living as normal of lives as we could have and should have with a virus with a low probability of death in most of us.
We still haven't had a good explanation why children are continuing to be recommended to have this vaccine which hasn't been thoroughly studied. Kids rarely have issues when infected with COVID.
Fauci acted as if the repository for knowledge on virology rested solely in his brain and anyone questioning him was essentially ignorant. "We must follow the science"--his science or be ridiculed.
So now we find ourselves going from 10 days of quarantine to 5 to 1 day once afebrile and without symptoms. There is no science behind this, but this is a rational approach to balancing a normal functioning society with a virus that is nonlethal or even severe in most people.
I totally agree with Tiggity that Fauci, the CDC and the medical establishment lied the most and have done tremendous harm as many people have no trust not only in them but even in front line physicians.
Trump bloviated about the virus as he does on everything, but he didn't know enough to begin to lie. Fauci, the CDC, etc knew better.
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Orange Blooded [2126]
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You don't think Trump knew enough to lie?...
Feb 21, 2024, 3:21 PM
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You've got to be kidding. There's no way you typed that with a straight face.
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Orange Blooded [2126]
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Trump said Covid was a Democrat Hoax....
Feb 21, 2024, 3:20 PM
[ in reply to The CDC, and their parade of directors, lied the most. ] |
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That was one of hundreds, maybe even thousands, of lies on the Covid topic alone.
After he had already tested positive, he did a presidential debate, putting potentially Biden and others in harm's way.
I think people that focus on Fauci instead of Trump are just showing their political stripes and not being serious about who was endangering people in this country.
Fauci was the target of character-assassination as soon as he showed he wouldn't go along with Trump's ridiculous loyalty tests.
And you probably already know this.
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All-TigerNet [12657]
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Re: Trump said Covid was a Democrat Hoax....
Feb 22, 2024, 2:14 PM
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That was one of hundreds, maybe even thousands, of lies on the Covid topic alone.
After he had already tested positive, he did a presidential debate, putting potentially Biden and others in harm's way.
I think people that focus on Fauci instead of Trump are just showing their political stripes and not being serious about who was endangering people in this country.
Fauci was the target of character-assassination as soon as he showed he wouldn't go along with Trump's ridiculous loyalty tests.
And you probably already know this.
Fauci, the CDC and the FDA by not being transparent lost the confidence of many Americans including me. I'm not an anti-vaxxer, voted for Nikki today and am a retired physician, so I'm not anti-science nor wearing Trump stripes.
Trump spouted a lot of nonsense about COVID while Fauci knew better about a lot of things and still isn't forthcoming about some things.
What loyalty tests are you speaking of? Trump pretty much went along with Fauci's recommendations and certainly Fauci was not prohibited from appearing almost ad nauseum on television. The man seemingly loves the camera.
Trump certainly minimized the danger of COVID while Fauci overrepresented the danger it posed to most healthy people and chose a path that did not balance the need for most people to work, go to school and live.
A very careful series of studies needs to be done on what worked, what didn't and why? This won't be the last pandemic, but the loss of confidence in our public health officials rests primarily on those individuals and their messaging, not on some of the dumb stuff Trump said and did.
Biden is the President now. Vaccine uptake for COVID is at extremely low percentages.Per the CDC, only 17% of the US population has had the updated Bivalent booster which wasn't even available under Trump.
I guess the 83% who haven't taken the booster are followers of Trump?
Once confidence is lost and a coherent message is not present, it's hard to get that back. That's on Fauci, et al and the general public at large realizing what is the point in continuing to take a vaccine that provides only a short term benefit.
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Orange Blooded [2126]
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It was clearly Trump, and not Fauci, who was making people lose confidence....
Feb 26, 2024, 9:41 AM
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You may not be pro-Trump yourself, or an anti-vaxxer (I didn't say you specifically were anti-vaxx). But Fauci was the convenient fall guy, who was sacrificed by the Trump administration in order to not put the blame at Trump's feet.
In February of 2020, Trump said that Covid was a Democrat hoax. In April of 2020, he started tweeting out "Free Maryland"...."Free Minnesota"...essentially going against lockdowns, many of them voluntary, that occurred early in the pandemic. His administration wasn't serious about the response early, because they saw it was a blue-state problem. He started mocking people who were wearing masks. He started suggesting quack remedies, such as horse pills & such. He started promoting doctors with no specialty in infectious diseases, who went on television, going against health guidance. He got infected, knew he was infected, and still went to a debate with Biden.
All of the above, on top of thousands of other lies/actions from Trump, ended up poisoning the rollout of the vaccine, where Republicans bought into anti-vaxx hook/line/sinker. The reason only 70% of Americans got the primary series was because Republicans disproportionately refused the vaccine. It was the right-wing side of America that suffered the most in the end, and that's not on Fauci. If more people had listened to him instead of Trump, a few hundred thousand more Americans would have survived the pandemic.
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