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Orange Blooded [2085]
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My Party left me, before I left them....
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Feb 25, 2024, 10:33 PM
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I voted for both George HW Bush (twice), Bob Dole, George W Bush (twice), Bob Barr ('08 was my protest year), and Mitt Romney. I would have voted for Reagan if I'd been old enough to vote.
I voted for every Republican that ran for Governor in Georgia for decades. I also voted for Georgia's GOP senators.
But the GOP is now a very different party, that's scornful of Democracy, and the idea of governing in general. The party is now pro-Putin, and they generally only seem to be in favor of anything that's the opposite of what they think Democrats like or want. It's all about owing the libs now, and not about governing in a good faith maer.
When Trump ran in 2016, I saw him for what he was very quickly. I was hoping that the other candidates would take him out. I liked Kasich and Christie, and was open to the other folks in the primary. But they couldn't get any traction, and they fell out one-by-one.
Since 2016, I've switched to voting for Democrats. There aren't enough Republicans with courage to stand up to the authoritarianism that rules the MAGA party. Until the GOP can fix itself, I'm with the Dems.
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All-TigerNet [12260]
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So... you would rather vote for the Party who welcomes Marxists into their
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Feb 25, 2024, 11:00 PM
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ranks, caters to every leftist fringe radical group/issue, and is willing to sacrifice our economy, and whole industries in the name of climate change. You'll vote for a party that is dedicated to increasing the size and power of the Federal Government/bureaucracy and actively seeks to regulate everything in your life from light bulbs to cars to what kind of heating device you can have in your living quarters.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion about the GOP and you are right - today's GOP is not the Bush family GOP who ultimately liked protracted foreign wars and big Government spending just as much as the Democrats.
As for me, personally, I can never recall any authoritarian regime actually wanting to cut Government regulation and the size and power of the centralized Government as part of a successful authoritarian scheme. Authoritarians only want to GROW the central Government as a means to gain more control so the GOP's intention to reduce Government doesn't quite seem to fit with your authoritarian analysis. Seems to me you may want to study the positions of Democrats and Republicans and see who supports more Government control/power and who supports less...
I know... BUT TRUMP!!!!.... geeesh....
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Legend [17302]
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Trump is not for smaller government just different big government control, power
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Feb 26, 2024, 5:15 AM
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And who’s welcoming authoritarian leaders with open arms? Of course, which party is inserting government into women’s health care? Seems you are being rather selective in big government policy criticism. Pubs big government is just different from Dems big government.
And btw energy efficiency ratings and standards for vehicles, hvac systems and appliances have been around for decades. More efficient devices become cost justifiable as incremental initial cost are offset by energy savings. From vehicles to lighting, businesses take advantage of opportunities to reduce energy costs.
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All-TigerNet [12260]
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Some truth in what you say - as I stated the Republican Inc. side of the GOP
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Feb 26, 2024, 10:35 AM
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which some on this board seem to adore - are the big Government Republicans. I think the term I used was "Bush Family GOP" which is synonymous with "Republican Inc." today. Republican Inc. are also a dying breed in the GOP because their "Democratic Lite" governance and go along to get along DC swamp games have resulted in the Conservative base finally turning on them. If you want to blame someone for the rise of Donald Trump - look no further than Republican Inc. Their constant refusal to implement the conservative agenda they campaigned on is the reason most of the base has abandoned them.
But let's not kid ourselves - the Democratic Party for well over a century has been the Party of increasing Federal Government power. It started with Woodrow Wilson (one of the Democratic Party's "progressive" racist icons) and went into overdrive under FDR and Lyndon Johnson. While momentarily tempered by JFK and Bill Clinton (thanks to Newt Gingrich's takeover of the House), the modern Democratic Party has since gone balls to the wall to become the great DC "centralized planner".
Want a specific example - just take a look at the 2020 "Biden-Sanders Unity Task Force Recommendations - Combating The Climate Crisis And Pursuing Environmental Justice" which has been the de-facto Biden Administrations agenda outline and is still available on Joebiden.com today.
If there was ever a document from a US political party that spelled out almost the complete bureaucratic takeover of US society - all under the false guise of saving the planet - then this Democratic document is it. It is a Marxist inspired screed (what do you expect from a Bernie Sanders and the Democratic Socialists who were it's co-authors) that Joe Biden and his fellow Democrats are trying to implement to increase Government power. I'll include a link so you can peruse the 110 pages of pure joy in growing Government control, power, and payoffs to union bosses.
And by the way - we're not talking about mere tweaks to "efficiency standards" that make clothes dryers a little less of an energy hog in the vein of past regulations. Nope... we're talking about things like the EPA's proposed new rules of 2027 automobile emissions standards that are so restrictive that no internal combustion engine will ever be able to meet it. They are essentially outlawing the new manufacture of gas cars without actually saying it. You want a choice between a gas car and an EV after 2027 - you ain't gonna have one if these proposed rules go into affect.
And this is just the tip of the iceberg to what Democrats and their Government central planners have in the works. Ever take a look at what Biden's HUD folks are doing through the Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing regulations?? Do you like your single family home and want your kids to one day enjoy single family home ownership??? You better enjoy it while you can because the Democratic central planners are looking to use the AAFH to have future generations all live in multi-family dwellings just like all the good Soviet planned living spaces back in the day. You know just some mere "efficiency" tweaks to bring about a more environmental friendly communal sharing of resources.
Practically every department in the Government is increasing their regulations to reflect Biden's January 2021 "Executive Order on Tackling the Climate Crisis at Home and Abroad". This EO was the Democrat's directive for every Federal Government departmental agency to write as many regulations they can to Govern any and all aspects of our lives so long as they tie it back to combating "climate change".
Your dismissal of what the Democratic Party seeks to regulate and control today vs mere "energy efficiency ratings" that have been around for decades is either ill informed or a huge white washing of what is going on. The modern Democratic Party actively embraces their ever growing Marxist Socialist/Communist wing (Bernie Sanders and all the new AOC "Democratic Socialists") and have adopted many of their central Government planning of society tenants. They really don't hide their aspirations but like Marxists of the past they are very good at selling their State control intentions in friendly language.
By way of stated Party policy contrast - if you know of a Republican Party endorsed/produced document that actively calls for larger Government, more spending, and more Federal Government regulation then please post a link as I would like to read it.
In simple terms, I see it as contrast between a Party whose very stated policy and actions are working to astronomically increase the Federal Government's influence and power (the very enabling hallmark of totalitarians and authoritarian regimes) versus a Party whose last Presidential administration actually reduced Government regulations and whose stated goal in 2024 is to reduce the size and scope of the Federal Government.
So to me the choice is quite clear: If you want more guaranteed Big Government vote Democratic. If you want the possibility of reduced Government regulation and a smaller Federal Government - vote Republican.
Here's a little light Marxist inspired reading if you can stomach the BS:
https://joebiden.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/UNITY-TASK-FORCE-RECOMMENDATIONS.pdf
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Legend [17302]
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Using the recent gas & electric stove rule making as an example
Feb 26, 2024, 1:40 PM
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The regulated community has robust government affairs departments, trade associations and lobbyists to push back and ultimately moderate “proposed” government regulations and rules. In the stove example, amended changes are minimal to existing requirements and pushed back to 2028. Obviously the regulated community’s influence is enhanced with political donations and endorsements _ and most politicians can’t resist the financial incentives. Money, jobs and votes count.
My professional experience dealt with the engineering aspects of resource conservation, energy efficiency and environmental compliance. My associates in Government Affairs and Legal were the calming voices in the room when a “proposed” regulation looked overly onerous. They were quite competent at getting regulations modified. And technology enhancements closed the remaining gaps to meet the new regulatory requirements. It was never as bad as initially feared.
I agree there are a lot of nuances to the political aspects of government regulation. Neither party is 100% correct with initial proposals.
Good discussion.
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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I got news for you, buddy....
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Feb 26, 2024, 9:14 AM
[ in reply to So... you would rather vote for the Party who welcomes Marxists into their ] |
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You live in a fantasy world if you think the GOP wants to reduce the size of our government. Both parties (Democrats and Republicans) are socialist in some aspect. They both want to grow government. They both want to spend a lot of money.
One party is disdainful of voting rights and Democrats. One party is at least 60% pro-Putin. One party has no ideas on how to help average Americans with health care or to address climate change. I think you know who I'm talking about.
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Lot o points [155978]
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I think what hes saying is that
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Feb 26, 2024, 9:18 AM
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You should just be saying “I’m a modern Democrat” and stop pretending that you’re only in it for a conservative protest vote.
I’m no fan of the modern GOP either, and will withhold votes for various candidates based on it, but other than the occasional local govt Dem candidate, it’s still a violation of my conscience and morals as a conservative to pull the lever for any of the modern Dem candidates.
It’s pretty clear you’re trying to have your cake and eat it too.
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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I didn't say I was a conservative protest vote....
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Feb 26, 2024, 9:59 AM
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You didn't read my post.
I was a moderate Republican. I'm not pretending to be anything. I'm saying until the GOP fixes itself, I'm off their wagon. We have been run out of the party.
There are millions more just like me around the country. The GOP has given itself over the MAGA, and not deserving of my support.
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Lot o points [155978]
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You were crystal clear
Feb 26, 2024, 10:02 AM
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“ Until the GOP can fix itself, I'm with the Dems.”
That’s called a protest vote. Hth.
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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So what....
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Feb 26, 2024, 10:05 AM
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You said I was pretending to be a "conservative protest vote".
I never said I was conservative. You're making stuff up.
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Lot o points [155978]
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Youre voting based on, by your own words,
Feb 26, 2024, 10:09 AM
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What one party isn’t and not what another is. That’s a protest vote.
It’s no surprise we can’t understand your logic, you don’t understand it yourself.
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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You're making crap up....
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Feb 26, 2024, 10:12 AM
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And you won't admit it. I never said I was a "conservative protest vote". You said I was pretending to be one. You're lying.
Go back and read what I said, and admit on the board that you're lying. Where did I say I was conservative? I didn't. You know #### well you're making stuff up and won't admit it.
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Lot o points [155978]
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Ok
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Feb 26, 2024, 10:24 AM
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You’re a moderate protest vote.
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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You finally admitted it.*
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Feb 26, 2024, 11:17 AM
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*
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Lot o points [155978]
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lol. It doesnt change my point whatsoever.
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Feb 26, 2024, 11:25 AM
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You’re supposedly making a stand for moderation and running to a highly immoderate party. Just say “I love progressivism and I’m proud of it”. Stop trying to hedge your bets by acting like you’re making a choice that’s remotely moderate.
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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OK, self-proclaimed "independent" (pfft)*
Feb 26, 2024, 12:23 PM
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*
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Lot o points [155978]
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No, its how my voter registration reads.
Feb 26, 2024, 12:33 PM
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That’s a step more official and committed than “self-proclaimed”. Hth.
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Heisman Winner [111730]
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Re: No, its how my voter registration reads.
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Feb 26, 2024, 12:34 PM
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seems the OCD is on overdrive today. Maybe go outside or something?
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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If you say so....
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Feb 26, 2024, 12:46 PM
[ in reply to No, its how my voter registration reads. ] |
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There's nothing about the way you post that's remotely "independent". What I see is a run of the mill right-winger, who probably votes for the GOP 99% of the time. I think the way you present yourself is dishonest.
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Lot o points [155978]
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GOP probably 65-70% in local elections
Feb 26, 2024, 12:59 PM
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State and National that 99% probably is accurate, but if I disagree with a candidate I either go third party or don't vote at all. (Won't vote for President this year (nor did I in 16 or 20) unless I like the third party, for example, and I also voted for Barr in 2008 for the same reason). I dammmm sure won't vote for a Dem that I have serious, serious problems with just because I don't like the Pub candidate. Doing that wouldn't make me a better Republican, it just makes me a Democrat. You've said nothing about why you're running to the Dems, you've only said why you're running away from the Pubs.
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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So, you're basically a Republican.....
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Feb 26, 2024, 1:30 PM
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You're not really an independent.
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Lot o points [155978]
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Not as much as you're basically a Democrat.
Feb 26, 2024, 1:32 PM
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At least just going by your own words on here. I'm just wondering why you don't just say "I'm a Democrat".
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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I didn't say I wasn't.....
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Feb 26, 2024, 1:41 PM
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I said I used to vote for Republicans, and now vote for Democrats. I didn't lie about being an "independent", unlike you. My vote is a protest against the GOP, and I come from a moderate view on a lot of issues.
You are pretending as if you've caught me in some awful spin, when in fact the spin is all coming from you. Liar.
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Lot o points [155978]
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ok Chachi. Have a good one.
Feb 26, 2024, 1:43 PM
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Good luck with your Dem moderation.
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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good luck being an "independent" (eyes roll)*
Feb 26, 2024, 1:47 PM
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*
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Lot o points [155978]
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Infinity no take-backs.***
Feb 26, 2024, 1:49 PM
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CU Guru [1377]
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Re: So what....
Feb 26, 2024, 10:12 AM
[ in reply to So what.... ] |
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Lifelong republicans getting sad bc true conservatives are taking of the party. I love it.
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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True conservatives don't try and overturn elections....
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Feb 26, 2024, 10:17 AM
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Today's MAGA party is not conservative. Nice try, but swing and a miss, to put it lightly.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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"true conservatives"
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Feb 26, 2024, 10:22 AM
[ in reply to Re: So what.... ] |
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Do you even know what that means?
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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No, he doesn't know what that means....
Feb 26, 2024, 1:53 PM
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There isn't anything in the GOP that's even remotely conservative these days, at least not in enough numbers to fill a small room....
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All-In [42197]
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True conservatives, huh?
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Feb 26, 2024, 10:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: So what.... ] |
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Ones who...
-Side with the federal government over private corporations, and don't mind government interference in the market, especially to punish businesses for their political views
-Support administrations that print free money and give it to the public
-Support administrations that try to restrict 2nd Amendment rights
-Want judges to legislate from the bench
-Increased fed government spending
-Cozying up to dictators and oppressive governments that are traditional enemies and haters of Americanism
That's an interesting batch of "conservatives".
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Orange Blooded [2511]
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Re: So what....
Feb 26, 2024, 11:41 AM
[ in reply to Re: So what.... ] |
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Sadly, MAGA aren't true conservatives. Theybare RINOs. MAGA is it's own world and has no real definition. Just an ignorant cult following a fraud and a somewhat false prophet for many.
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Lot o points [155978]
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Welcome back Carlsbad!!!***
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Feb 26, 2024, 11:53 AM
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All-TigerNet [12260]
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First off - I'm not your "buddy" as you don't even know me. Secondly - you
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Feb 26, 2024, 10:42 AM
[ in reply to I got news for you, buddy.... ] |
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live in a fantasy world if you think voting for Democrats is going to produce less Government control (dare I say authoritarianism), prosperity and individual liberty and stop the ever growing tide of socialistic cancer that is eroding of our Constitutional Republic moorings.
PS... I call BS on your 60% Republican pro-Putin garbage a made up statistic that has no factual basis.
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All-In [42197]
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Yes, the 60 percent stat is false
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Feb 26, 2024, 10:50 AM
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It's much lower than that. However, among Republicans, they view him more favorably than Biden or Dems and that's a problem. Dislike those people all you want, but if you're more in favor of an evil dictator than your fellow Americans, that's a problem.
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Lot o points [155978]
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All-In [42197]
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Lot o points [155978]
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Dude, save us some time and just say you were wrong.
Feb 26, 2024, 11:18 AM
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Don’t make this a tooth extraction.
On the first one, are you really thinking people put much nuance here in 2023/2024 between Russia and Putin? They’re basically interchangeable.
As for the second one, look at the attached. You’re really claiming vast disparity? MORE Dems are favorable about Putin.
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All-In [42197]
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Da fuq?
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Feb 26, 2024, 11:23 AM
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Man, I'm gonna have to really embarrass you here.
Both parties are almost equal in their Putin/Russian favorability rating, with independents almost doubling both.
Pubs were 9 percent "very favorable". Dems were 9 percent. Indies were 2 percent. In what universe is that "doubling both?"
You understand "doubling both" would be... you know... 18 percent of the Indies?
For "somewhat favorable," it was even. But not "doubling both".
And no, your first link is about opinions on Russia vs. Ukraine. Not specific questions about Putin. That was the stat at question Smitty threw out.
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Lot o points [155978]
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Uhhhhh, the first poll that has Dems and pubs at 6 and
Feb 26, 2024, 11:29 AM
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Indy’s at 13 or so?
And don’t dive for the bushes and change your argument. I threw Indy’s in as an interesting side note, not the crux of my argument. You claimed more pubs than Dems favored Putin and it was a problem, as if it were just indisputable fact. I gave you specific facts showing that’s just BS. That just isn’t close to being so. You can do it. Just say “I’m wrong.”
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All-In [42197]
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Bruh, you posted the slide that dashed your "doubled" comment
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Feb 26, 2024, 11:34 AM
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Your first poll wasn't about Putin. Your second poll proved your claim wrong. Period.
"You claimed more pubs than Dems favored Putin and it was a problem, as if it were just indisputable fact."
No I didn't. I said, "However, among Republicans, they view him more favorably than Biden or Dems and that's a problem."
And THAT, gawd ######, is a fact. But you're straw manning me here and claiming I said something I didn't.
Tell me exactly what claim I made that was incorrect. I mean, ####, I even fed your own numbers back to you to prove your claim wrong and you're moving the goalposts.
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Lot o points [155978]
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(Edit)lol you (might) know you're wrong. This (might be) is funny.
Feb 26, 2024, 11:51 AM
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"However, among Republicans, they view him more favorably than Biden or Dems and that's a problem."
Grammatically you are saying that Republicans view Putin more favorably than how Biden and the Democrats view Putin favorably. Since I don’t see where anyone polled Biden, I gave you data showing that Pubs and Dems are pretty neck and neck when it comes to favorable opinions of Putin.
If you literally meant they view Putin more favorably than Biden, then A) you need to change your sentence structure because you intend Biden and Dems to be the predicate, but you have them as the subject. The correct phrasing would be “ However, among Republicans, they view him more favorably than they view Biden or Dems and that's a problem.” If I was taken in by awkward syntax, my bad. I can’t read the link you posted because of the paywall.
It raises a question though. Biden/Putin favorability seem pretty similar to me, based on stats I posted and that I found online.
Would you say that Dem “very favorable” opinions of Trump would be more or less than 9%? If less, is that a problem to you?
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All-In [42197]
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Holy ####
Feb 26, 2024, 12:12 PM
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Grammatically you are saying that Republicans view Putin more favorably than how Biden and the Democrats view Putin favorably. Since I don’t see where anyone polled Biden, I gave you data showing that Pubs and Dems are pretty neck and neck when it comes to favorable opinions of Putin.
So because you misread my post, which is clearly NOT how it is structured grammatically (if I had said what you're claiming, I would have written it as "Republicans view Putin more favorably than Biden and the Dems DO"... why would I add Biden in that? Seriously? You think I meant to include him in a comparison of how people view Russia... c'mon, man), rather than say "oops, yeah, my bad," it pains you too much to admit you misread it so you're moving the goalposts.
Literally your argument is that you misread my clearly stated post, so therefore I'm somehow wrong.
If you look at this sentence and think, "However, among Republicans, they view him more favorably than Biden or Dems and that's a problem," that I had Biden and the Dems as the subject in here, then it's back to English class with you. "They" is the subject. I also wrote it in active voice with the subject doing the action to the indirect object (people), both Putin and Dems/Biden. All you're proposing is restating the verb, but that isn't necessary as if I meant "more than Biden or the Dems do," then I just need the verb "do," which was intentionally omitted because that's not what I ####### meant.
If I said I love Clemson more than USuCk, do you really interpret that as "I love Clemson more than USuCk loves Clemson"?
Next, there's no way you read my sentence and thought I was claiming that Pubs view Putin more favorably than Pres. Biden does. No. You didn't.
You STILL haven't address how I took your own numbers and dashed your "doubled" claim. Are you just going to pretend that one didn't happen?
I mean, that was basic math. You even posted the screenshot that proved your statement wrong.
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Lot o points [155978]
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Dude.
Feb 26, 2024, 12:23 PM
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In your poorly structured sentence, Biden and the Dems are a shared subject, along with “they”. “Do” is implied.
You’re a professional writer, so I take your sentences literally.
Using your identical sentence structure, if I said “ However, among Republicans, they eat vegetables more frequently than Biden or Dems and that's a problem”, would you be contending I should read it that Republicans eat both vegetables and humans, or that we are comparing how often the groups mentioned eat vegetables?
If I’m wrong my argument isn’t that I read it wrong , it’s that you wrote it incorrectly.
And back to the independent stat (which was correct in one of my links—much as you’d like to claim people view Russia and Putin completely separately) and was only mentioned as an aside—-you aren’t dunking bro. It absolutely was a “by the by, this is interesting”.
And you avoided my question. If less than 9% of Dems view Trump very favorably, is that as problematic to you as Pubs viewing Biden poorly?
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All-In [42197]
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Re: Dude.
Feb 26, 2024, 12:38 PM
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It's definitely not implied and I refuse to believe you actually read that thinking I was comparing Pubs feelings about Putin to Joe ####### Biden's feelings about him. Biden and the Dems were the predicate; again, use my Clemson example and tell me how you'd interpret it.
Using your identical sentence structure, if I said “ However, among Republicans, they eat vegetables more frequently than Biden or Dems and that's a problem”, would you be contending I should read it that Republicans eat both vegetables and humans, or that we are comparing how often the groups mentioned eat vegetables?
Ironically, you've structured this example incorrectly because, yeah, you need that crucial "do" in there. While it's easy to imply what you meant, the omission of that verb technically makes the sentence structured poorly because yes, someone (maybe a new English learner) could think you meant they were eating Democrats. So you just damaged your own argument. In my original sentence, both Putin and the Dems/Biden were the predicate and the indirect object, and they were both being compared. You misinterpreted the Dems/Biden as a subject.
You said independents doubled Pubs and Dems in their support for Biden. You doubled down on that by posting the sheet that I originally quoted. It shows 2 percent support from Indies compared to 9 percent by both Dems and Pubs.
I rest my case. Your statement was wrong.
And you avoided my question. If less than 9% of Dems view Trump very favorably, is that as problematic to you as Pubs viewing Biden poorly?
Yes, it is, but that question has become so ridiculously lost in your desperate effort to give me an incorrect English lesson since you misread something and to dodge your math F up that I don't even give a #### about the original point anymore.
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Lot o points [155978]
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Thank you for admitting the sentence was poorly structured.
Feb 26, 2024, 12:46 PM
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You’re trying so hard to defend it that you’re missing the point.
I substituted a single noun, verb, and adverb in both sentences and copied your structure 100%. I’m glad we can agree that for most readers of either sentence, the “Do” is implied.
Without proper grammar, we are no better than the apes, or Mackey Pillar.
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All-In [42197]
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Re: Thank you for admitting the sentence was poorly structured.
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Feb 26, 2024, 1:18 PM
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Heh, okay, man. Not sure I can get through if you couldn't pick out the right subject and predicate in the original sentence. Still dodgin' that math, though...
But I'll still throw you a ticker take parade as you stand by your computer just for your Mackey comment.
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Lot o points [155978]
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Here's the best part.
2
Feb 26, 2024, 1:27 PM
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We're like the only two reading this thread, and have been for like the last 10 replies.
We could say anything about anyone, like hotsawce having 2" baseboards or CharlestonTiger15® trying too hard to live up to a bourgeoise upbringing or Lakebum1® probably having Luke Bryan on his boat stereo at least a couple times a summer, and they'd never know.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Re: Here's the best part.
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Feb 26, 2024, 2:17 PM
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All-In [38205]
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Lot o points [155978]
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I posted the stats a week or two ago from 2023
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Feb 26, 2024, 10:50 AM
[ in reply to First off - I'm not your "buddy" as you don't even know me. Secondly - you ] |
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That showed the exact same percent of the Dems and Pubs (and it was a small percent) were pro Putin/Russia.
I’d call him a liar but maybe it’s not a lie if you believe it, much like the rest of his illogical diatribe.
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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It's not about "more" or "less" government....
1
Feb 26, 2024, 11:16 AM
[ in reply to First off - I'm not your "buddy" as you don't even know me. Secondly - you ] |
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Both parties are into big government.
One party is full of election-deniers, and led by a man who tried to overthrow an election in 2020, and who is pro-Putin. There's no doubt that Trump loves Putin, and people in the primaries still vote for him at about a 60/40 clip.
People like you do live in a fantasy world.
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All-In [42197]
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How can you look at Trump's four years and his platform
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Feb 26, 2024, 10:34 AM
[ in reply to So... you would rather vote for the Party who welcomes Marxists into their ] |
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And not realize that he supports and has supported big government spending and federal government overreach? It was there, plain as day.
He's no different from the Dems; just different in the end game.
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All-TigerNet [13160]
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First of all; you sound like a Media Matters generated fake elector.
1
Feb 25, 2024, 11:07 PM
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Second of all; Biden’s student loan payoff is a slap in the face of democracy greater than anything Trump has ever done.
Thirdly; you infer that all the GOP are in lock step against the Dems. Now go look at voting on actual bills and see which party marches to the same tune on EVERYTHING.
When people switch parties; what issues have caused you to do that? What policies of Trump’s made you switch from conservative to fkn rtrded?
Lastly; are you a bot, terribly misinformed, or trying really hard to be liked by people that you idolize?
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Head Coach [788]
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Re: First of all; you sound like a Media Matters generated fake elector.
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Feb 25, 2024, 11:11 PM
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Hey chief, paying off student loans is a greater assault on democracy than storming the capital and attempting to cancel millions of votes????
You gotta put some better stuff in your peace pipe.
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Lot o points [155978]
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Yes. Giving the finger to 1/3 of the govt branches is
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Feb 25, 2024, 11:13 PM
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Ignoring our system of govt, usurping control at the expense of separation of power, and far worse than a riot. Hth.
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Heisman Winner [137988]
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But what if, and bear with me on this:
1
Feb 26, 2024, 7:45 AM
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what if, the riot was about ignoring our system of government and usurping control at the expense of separation of power?
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Lot o points [155978]
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Sure
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Feb 26, 2024, 8:09 AM
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Show me Trump at the center of organizing and coordinating said riot, and let’s talk. Joe’s actions on this one are coming directly from him. Trump’s are loosely tied because it was some supporters doing it. I’m not saying Trump wasn’t giddy to see them acting out on his behalf, but I still haven’t seen where he was directly culpable for their actions as Biden was for his in this case (twice now actually, most recently bragging about “not letting the Supreme Court stop him”).
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Heisman Winner [137988]
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That's...interesting.
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Feb 26, 2024, 8:37 AM
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Trump and Roger Stone have been close confidants for 35 years, since before you were in high school. Roger Stone was actively coordinating a violent coup attempt with the Proud Boys. These are all facts.
Now, are we to understand that Stone was doing all of this without any Trump having any knowledge of it? That's the only thing that would make your version make any kind of sense at all. Sure, there isn't a memo on paper from Roger Stone addressed to Donald Trump with details of his plot, and a signature from Donald Trump indicating "I read this". But how, on one had, are you 100% certain that Joe Biden was taking money from foreign entities as VP, without a single piece of HARD evidence, i.e., a single bank transaction, but "you just know, you know?", and yet...you can make the claim that Trump had no knowledge of what Roger Stone was doing?
Did Trump also have no knowledge of the PowerPoint that his Chief of Staff put together and showed the rest of his Cabinet? Was Trump in the bathroom when that happened?
If you're going to make assumptions and leaps, then Biden is guilty of bribery AND Trump is guilty of plotting to overthrow the government. If you're not making leaps and assumptions, then neither has any evidence whatsoever of wrongdoing.
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Lot o points [155978]
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Bro what are you even talking about.
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Feb 26, 2024, 8:46 AM
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Why are you veering to Biden bribery when I’ve been talking about him knowingly issuing unconstitutional EO’s?
I’m talking about him issuing two edicts that fly in the face of a Supreme Court ruling in a shameless attempt to buy votes, and actually bragging that he didn’t let the Supreme Court stop him. That’s indisputable fact.
Trump’s connections to J6 are still tenuous and not proven, or he’d be under the jail by now.
You can make all the loose connections you want but, no, the direct correlations to each’s bastardizarion of the Constitution are not identical.
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Heisman Winner [137988]
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Because those are two situations similar in the amount of proof that exists
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Feb 26, 2024, 8:57 AM
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for each supposed crime, and I'm pointing out how certain you are that one of them happened, and how "well, that's tenuous at best" you are with the other, based on the team you pull for.
Biden's EOs on student loan forgiveness certainly aren't as cut and dried as you're making them, either, or if they are, you should go straighten out all the legal scholars that don't seem to know for certain.
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Lot o points [155978]
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Ahhhh, so youre saying there could be a technicality
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Feb 26, 2024, 9:02 AM
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Sort of like a VP not certifying an election would be a technicality? And I’m the one cherry-picking?
And “all the legal scholars”. lol. Ok. There’s are sooooo many lining up to claim this is completely different from the HEROES forgiveness plan.
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All-TigerNet [13160]
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Legend [18026]
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They also noted how HEROES Act's authority by biden is diff than PSLF authority
Feb 26, 2024, 6:22 PM
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in terms of scale and power. Basically, acknowledging that the Secretary of Education has more authority and precedent under PSLF/Education Act to waive/forgive (which is what they did with this newest forgiveness) than they attempted under HEROES.
It's different, not as OBED described it being the same reasoning, and would necessitate a more strict look at PSLF powers and waiving off of precedent (something this Supreme Court is kind of known for) so it's possible they could strike down Biden again.
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All-TigerNet [13160]
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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Great response....
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Feb 26, 2024, 9:09 AM
[ in reply to First of all; you sound like a Media Matters generated fake elector. ] |
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You insult me personally, calling me an effin' ######. This is a perfect example of what has happened on the right. When someone disagrees with you, call them names. This is one of - not the only, but one of - the reasons I am glad I'm no longer in the GOP.
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110%er [9036]
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Re: My Party left me, before I left them....
Feb 25, 2024, 11:07 PM
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this reads like a cat meme
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Lot o points [155978]
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"Im tired of Mussolini, so Im supporting Stalin"***
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Feb 25, 2024, 11:08 PM
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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No. I'm tired of the GOP, and am voting Democrat....
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Feb 26, 2024, 9:54 AM
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Your analogy is silly at best, and not deserving of a response. But I wanted to point out to you that this shows your lack of ability to comprehend the positions of the parties.
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Lot o points [155978]
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I understand the positions perhaps better than you.
Feb 26, 2024, 10:04 AM
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That’s why I’m a conservative registered as an independent.
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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No, you don't....
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Feb 26, 2024, 10:10 AM
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You see one party that supports guys who try to overthrow elections, and pretend the other party is "stalin". That's not understanding any positions. That's idiocy on your part.
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Lot o points [155978]
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I can only make the analogy
Feb 26, 2024, 10:23 AM
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I can’t make you understand it.
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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Don't worry. I understand it....
1
Feb 26, 2024, 10:28 AM
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I doubt if you do, though.
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Lot o points [155978]
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Oh snap.
Feb 26, 2024, 10:37 AM
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You employed the “I know you are but what am I” defense. I have nowhere to go from here. You might as well have triple dog dared me. I have no choice but to concede now.
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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It's not about you conceding anything....
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Feb 26, 2024, 11:03 AM
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People with your "Stalin" talking points are a dime-a-dozen on the right-wing.
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Lot o points [155978]
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So you did miss the analogy.
Feb 26, 2024, 11:08 AM
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Did you consider the GOP being Mussolini in that analogy to be a compliment from me?
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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No....
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Feb 26, 2024, 11:23 AM
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I'm not big on those types of analogies in general, because we live in a different world today.
When the left says that Trump is "Hitler", it's just as stupid as comparing the Dems to "Stalin."....
But saying that Trump is an authoritarian is basically correct. We know what he likes, and what he's done. We know where he stands on things like elections, various dictators around the world, etc.
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Hall of Famer [24815]
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Who gave the Supreme Court the finger...? Currently, our dictators are within.
Feb 26, 2024, 11:34 AM
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They have a demented mouthpiece as a front man.
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All-In [42197]
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Lot o points [155978]
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Of course it is. Many analogies are.
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Feb 26, 2024, 10:45 AM
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Who ever made an effective nuanced analogy?
I’m saying it’s illogical at best to say “X has characteristics that trouble me so I am voting for Y (which shares many of the exact same characteristics)”
It’s like a woman leaving Harvey Weinstein because she was against sexual abuse and dating Bill Cosby instead. (Trigger warning: that was hyperbole too)
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All-In [42197]
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I too disagree with the OP logic
Feb 26, 2024, 10:51 AM
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Although he was dead-on about what the GOP has become.
I just hoped maybe you were finally seeing the comparison to MAGAism and the Italian fascist movement.
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Lot o points [155978]
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There are authoritarian overlaps
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Feb 26, 2024, 11:07 AM
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Overlaps which the Dems are definitely not immune from by a long shot. Thus my analogy.
I know which party makes me make or intends for me to make changes in my day to day routine that I would prefer to not make, and 9/10 it’s not the (still highly flawed) GOP.
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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Lot o points [155978]
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Based on your post,
Feb 26, 2024, 12:03 PM
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You label most things you don’t understand as stupid.
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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No. I label stupid things as stupid.*
Feb 26, 2024, 12:21 PM
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*
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Lot o points [155978]
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Stupid
Feb 26, 2024, 12:36 PM
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Like saying you’re voting for one party because the other party is 60% pro-Putin and then someone posting actual stats that show both parties are about 9% pro-Putin stupid? That kind of stupid?
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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I'm talking about the politicians...
Feb 26, 2024, 12:52 PM
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Over half the Senate Republicans voting against the funding for Ukraine. Trump is certainly pro-Putin, and he's getting about 60% of the primary vote so far.
These are pro-Putin things that are happening within the GOP.
When they're not busy trying to make it harder to vote or sidestepping questions about the 2020 election, they're doing things that help Putin.
You can get all butt-hurt about it, because I called out your stupidity over the Stalin quote. But it's true nonetheless.
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Lot o points [155978]
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I think we've reached a great understanding.
Feb 26, 2024, 1:01 PM
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I will use small words, avoid any and all nuance, and type really slowly when communicating with you from now on.
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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Sounds great to me....
Feb 26, 2024, 1:33 PM
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You serve up the stupidity, and I'll bat it back in your face.
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Lot o points [155978]
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Re: Sounds great to me....
Feb 26, 2024, 1:34 PM
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Head Coach [788]
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Re: My Party left me, before I left them....
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Feb 25, 2024, 11:15 PM
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Trump hijacked the GOP back in 2015.
Really unfortunate for moderates and republicans.
Amazes me how Mike Johnson acts like trump is president. Johnson should wake up, get some balls and start governing like a majority leader should.
Trump gonna leave GOP in shambles.
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Legend [16733]
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Re: My Party left me, before I left them....
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Feb 26, 2024, 4:24 AM
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Yep but he realizes that if he not a trump puppet he will be ousted as speaker and may not be re-elected next term to serve in the house.
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Legend [17805]
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Re: My Party left me, before I left them....
Feb 26, 2024, 12:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: My Party left me, before I left them.... ] |
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Trump didn’t hijack in 2015.
The Tea Party stated the pre-Trumpian movement earlier. I made mention in another post a few days back that at least I became wary of their influence back in 2012 when a middle of the road dude like Romney started making concessions to the Tea Party.
Trump just came on board - read the tea leaves (no pun intended) like a genius - and took the Tea Party to the next level.
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Hall of Famer [24119]
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Re: My Party left me, before I left them....
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Feb 26, 2024, 12:54 AM
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When Joe Biden and Donald Trump are the candidates that the Democrat and Republican parties are putting forth as their candidates, then it's time for Americans to understand that these are not serious parties in this country.
The country outdates both of these parties.
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Legend [16733]
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Re: My Party left me, before I left them....
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Feb 26, 2024, 4:21 AM
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It left me too. I now vote person over party affiliation. Nikki will be my vote this year even if it’s a write in vote.
I learned yesterday Martin van buren came up with the idea of a 2 party system. He was wrong.
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Orange Blooded [2085]
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If the GOP nominated Nikki Haley....
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Feb 26, 2024, 9:17 AM
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That would be a step in the right direction. Far as I can tell, she's pro-Democracy, anti-Putin, and will not try to overturn elections.
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All-TigerNet [12592]
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You do you
6
6
Feb 26, 2024, 8:06 AM
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You're probably voting where you should. While the GOP under Trump has shifted more to a populist view over a conservative one, the Republican Party is still much more conservative on most matters than the Democratic Party which has shifted more to a "progressive" party instead of a traditionally liberal party.
I won't be voting for Trump, but I sure as hell am not voting for a senile puppet either or probably any down ballot Dems. You go ahead and vote for Biden and down ballot for Dems because you obviously in a pique of anger over Trump taking over the party, favor progressivism over the vestiges of conservatism.
Yellowjacket you do you. I fail to see how you think as an erstwhile Republican that electing more Dems is in some way going to restore some semblance of conservatism. The Democratic Party ain't the party of Fritz Hollings, Scoop Jackson, Zell Miller or even Bill Clinton either. The Blue Dogs are extinct.
Knock yourself out.
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CU Medallion [58448]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 4/23/00
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Spot on!***
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Feb 26, 2024, 8:48 AM
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Orange Blooded [2085]
TigerPulse: 91%
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No, the two parties are a choice of somewhat sane vs insane....
Feb 26, 2024, 12:43 PM
[ in reply to You do you ] |
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There are a whole host of issues where Republicans are literally insane.
The 2020 election - and voting rights in general - is certainly one of them. To this day, it's very hard to get many members of the GOP in congress to admit that Biden's win was legitimate. They still can't admit it.
The border is another insane issue from the GOP's perspective. They make the issue into the centerpiece of their political strategy, but at the same time torpedo any legislation that's meant to deal with the border, because Trump doesn't want to given Biden a "victory" on the issue.
Healthcare is another insane issue. After screaming "repeal and replace" for 7 years, the Pubs were unable to come up with anything to repeal or replace Obamacare.
There are large swaths of the GOP that still won't admit that man-made global warming exists, even though climate science has concluded very authoritatively that is does exist.
It's a very dysfunctional party. To me, it's self-evident because of who they have nominated & election for POTUS. But even removing Trump from the picture, it's still an insane party right now.
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110%er [9109]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 9/3/03
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I disagree with the OP, but what he said is important
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Feb 26, 2024, 8:18 AM
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To me, there is a great divide between what the Republican party (should) stand for and what the Democrats stand for. But what's important about what the OP said is that there are "conservative Democrats" as well as "liberal Republicans." Not everything is either/or. I have a neighbor who has voted both ways because he is socially liberal but fiscally conservative (a business owner from Vermont, if that explains it at all!). So for him, he can vote either way - neither party has a lock on his ideals. Not everyone is an either/or on either side of the aisle.
The dangerous thing today is that BOTH parties are moving further and further away from center, appealing to their more extreme sides but alienating the more moderate voters, which are the majority of voters in the country. So the right wants everybody to be like them and has zero toleration for the center, much less the left. And the left wants everyone to be like them, with zero toleration for the center, much less the right.
When Republicans have won and been more dominant is when they've been just right of center - somewhere around 66%-75% of the way to furthest right. This brings in the fiscal conservatives who can tolerate some social conservatism, and vice versa.
To lead a diverse nation SUCCESSFULLY you MUST work with both sides, or at least pretend to (politicians are really good at that). Trump has outright said he wants no part of the left or the middle, or even the more centrist conservatives. Biden - well, he doesn't even know left from right (literally) at this time.
Trump will not help the party. Trump will not help the nation. Trump will certainly not help anything internationally. Trump may help you wallet. Not knocking that. But is it worth it at the price of a divided and fractured nation and a diminished international standing? That's up to you.
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All-In [42197]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38274
Joined: 11/30/98
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What the GOP can't seem to get
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Feb 26, 2024, 10:23 AM
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Is that the majority of America, along with the crucial the independents, rejects MAGA and the Trump movement. It disgusts them. The GOP has won small MAGA victories at a great cost. The country continues to shift more away from that extremist right, yet the GOP just doubles down on MAGAism.
And that problem is compounded when MAGA's message is clear: It's our way or you're evil. There is no compromise. We will force our way of life on you even if we're the minority. Anyone not on Team Trump is an enemy of America.
The little marching soldiers in this movement are too stupid to see the damage, but the leaders should be paying attention to it. They're either too egotistical to change... or they have more sinister plans for securing permanent power.
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110%er [5694]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Joined: 9/28/08
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Just save me the trouble
Feb 26, 2024, 9:31 AM
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of reading the whole post and say "I am a stupid idiot with zero ability to see the big picture, I have few morals and don't mind if the USA regresses to socialism and worse, I don't mind if the school cuts off my kid's weener if he likes to wear fingernail polish, I don't mind if criminals from Mexico and parts further south rape my daughter or granddaughter and are let go the next day, and I like paying double for chicken breasts at Piggly Wiggly"
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All-In [42197]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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You have no business questioning anyone's morals here.***
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Feb 26, 2024, 10:07 AM
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Orange Blooded [2085]
TigerPulse: 91%
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Orange Blooded [4792]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Joined: 1/8/19
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Re: My Party left me, before I left them....
Feb 26, 2024, 9:35 AM
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Cool story now to take a look at how the Democrats have evolved since 2000 and then stop whining about Republicans leaving you behind. Are you twelve or something? The trolls keep posting this exact same thread over and over. Yall getting paid by the post now?
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Orange Blooded [2085]
TigerPulse: 91%
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Joined: 1/7/00
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The Dems have certainly moved left....
Feb 26, 2024, 1:36 PM
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But they're on the right side of history on the whole Democracy & elections thing.
I don't know how often this type of post occurs. But I'm giving my political story. You can hate it if you want. I don't care.
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All-In [42197]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38274
Joined: 11/30/98
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I understand your reason for leaving the GOP
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Feb 26, 2024, 10:06 AM
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Or at least feeling they abandoned you with the neo-Trump radicalism and cult following. It's a disease and it's wrecked the GOP. However, I'm not sure that's good cause to migrate to the Dem party, particularly as they continue to struggle with radical leftism and unrealistic visions for America.
Let's keep strengthening that independent core and pushing back against this two party train wreck.
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Lot o points [155978]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 5/6/13
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You know, you could at least
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Feb 26, 2024, 10:42 AM
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Give me a TU or two for posting the same thing.
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All-In [42197]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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Listen. Strange dudes sitting on message boards distributing TUs...
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Feb 26, 2024, 10:52 AM
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...is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical Internet ceremony.
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Orange Blooded [2085]
TigerPulse: 91%
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There really isn't a third party option....
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Feb 26, 2024, 12:55 PM
[ in reply to I understand your reason for leaving the GOP ] |
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The biggest threat to this country is another Donald Trump presidency. And the only way to combat that is to vote for Biden. If I thought there was a real chance at another option, I'd take it. But currently, if you want to stop Trump, you have to vote for Biden.
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All-In [42197]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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I know, but play the long game, man
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Feb 26, 2024, 1:22 PM
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The more third party votes we can get over time, the better.
Now, where do you live? If you're in a place like SC, you might as well vote third party. A vote for Biden in SC is useless.
Now, if you're in a swing state and that's how you feel, okay.
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Orange Blooded [2085]
TigerPulse: 91%
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I live in Georgia.....
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Feb 26, 2024, 1:37 PM
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Because of people like me, Biden won in Georgia in 2020. My vote actually means something in this state. I'm hoping we can get him over the line again in 2024, but it will be tough.
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110%er [9036]
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Joined: 4/27/13
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Re: My Party left me, before I left them....
Feb 26, 2024, 10:58 AM
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has anyjuan said trump=hitler yet?
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All-In [42197]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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We don't wanna interfere with your wet dream so saved it for you***
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Feb 26, 2024, 11:03 AM
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All-In [31520]
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Re: My Party left me, before I left them....
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Feb 26, 2024, 11:26 AM
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Don’t need to get quite so worked up about it, I don’t think national politics affects any of our lives the way people seem to obsess like it does.
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Lot o points [155978]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 5/6/13
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Did you miss it? THEY LEFT HIM!!!
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Feb 26, 2024, 12:07 PM
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They said they loved him and never would hurt him and they lied, and he’s going to make them pay by hooking up with the Dem football team and sending Pub-ex vids of the Dems running a train on him until the Pubs have no choice but to realize how badly they screwed up. THEY LEFT HIM.
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Hall of Famer [24815]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 7/31/10
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I was going to be a little more subtle about it. Guess not.***
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Feb 26, 2024, 12:08 PM
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Orange Blooded [2085]
TigerPulse: 91%
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Joined: 1/7/00
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Ummmm....
Feb 26, 2024, 2:02 PM
[ in reply to Did you miss it? THEY LEFT HIM!!! ] |
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So, you've swerved from Stalin posts (because it's so smart & unique to compare Dems to Stalin) to fake 'I'm an independent' posts to posts about people running trains on other people.
You are one weird guy.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 10/30/05
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It's kinda like dating the town bicycle and when she cheats on you for the
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Feb 26, 2024, 2:16 PM
[ in reply to Did you miss it? THEY LEFT HIM!!! ] |
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30th time you decide to get back at her by banging a bunch of $10 crack hoars and end up getting AIDS.
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Orange Blooded [2021]
TigerPulse: 85%
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Joined: 7/30/04
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Re: My Party left me, before I left them....
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Feb 26, 2024, 12:15 PM
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MK Ultra at it's finest
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110%er [9101]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 10/15/99
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Amen, amen... Sadly the GOP is deaded***
Feb 26, 2024, 12:42 PM
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Orange Blooded [4059]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 3/6/01
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Brave and well-written post
5
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Feb 26, 2024, 1:15 PM
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I rarely respond to political topics, because of the vitriol. But I have no doubt that Ronald Reagan, Bob Dole, John McCain, both Bushes and many other founders of the modern Republican party would have nothing but contempt for the current cultists.
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All-American [572]
TigerPulse: 84%
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Re: My Party left me, before I left them....
Feb 27, 2024, 7:41 AM
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I didn't know David French posted on Tigernet; neat 👍
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Walk-On [104]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 11/8/05
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Re: My Party left me, before I left them....
Feb 27, 2024, 11:07 AM
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Republican my a$$, just another dem trying to look
like he might be open minded, and independent thinking.
what a joke
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