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Chaos in the world? Wonder why?
General Boards - Politics
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Chaos in the world? Wonder why?

5

Apr 14, 2024, 10:31 AM
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Long post warning: this is a long post with a lot o' words. Feel totally free to not read it...just as I totally feel free to write it.

As a nation, we Americans love to politicize sh!t, and for some reason, we seem to have this notion we can stop every bad thing that happens out in the world. We love to say: "This is all Trump's fault." Or: "This never would have happened if Trump was in office."

To which I say: bullsh!t. Sure, Trump's kowtowing to Russia encouraged their aggression, but Russia's a mean junkyard dog straining on its leash at the best of times. They rough up their neighbors because that's how Russia has always worked; they're an aggressor empire that surrounds their core with buffer-zone captive states. Joe's disasterous withdrawal from Afghanistan pantsed us and made us look even weaker on the world stage. But most of the bad things happening in the world have very little to do with us. Actually, for almost 80+ years now, a whole lot of bad stuff hasn't happened in the world because of us. We like to say in public: "We aren't the world's policemen"...and then we've always turned around and acted like the World Police every time some warlord in Somalia decides to commit genocide on his countrymen, or when Houthi pirates appear in the Red Sea to eff with global shipping, or when somebody like Iran invades Kuwait in a clear attempt to get a monopoly on oil. It's been on us. Every single time. And we've always stepped up and done the job.

Since WW2 - actually, since before WW2 ended, since the deal was made at the Bretton Woods conference in July of 1944 at the Mount Washington Hotel in New Hampshire, it's the single most significant event in modern history nobody seems to know anything about - there has been a specific order to the world, an order maintained by us.

That world order has a name: globalism, or the "Bretton Woods System". We set up the IMF, the World Bank, and the World Trade Organization. And basically: anybody can trade with anybody else anywhere in the world, and on our own dime, the USA will use our navy to keep the sea lanes clear, and we'll use our army to ensure military adventurism that can effect that trade is suppressed. In exchange, everybody else can do their own thing.

There was only one thing you had to do in exchange: be on our side against the Soviet Union.

For two obvious reasons, that system is ending. Reason #1 - it's increasingly evident Russia is not the Soviet Union and is becoming far more of a regional than a global threat, what the military buffs like to refer to as a "Tier 2" threat. At one point the Soviets had 55,000 tanks in East Germany poised to overrun Western Europe and almost 400 submarines poised to flood the Atlantic, and all of NATO combined was outnumbered by their military more than three to one. Russia clearly ain't that anymore (though only an idiot would let that mean puppy dog get off the chain and start rebuilding that old empire.) The only thing, really, that keeps Russia at Tier 1 are their nukes. Reason #2 is also simple: China's trying to unseat us as the dominant power in this order...while somehow still counting on us to maintain that order for them. I mean, why the $^&$ would we do that? Why on Earth would we use our own Navy - at vast expense - to keep all the warlords and potential enemies who could disrupt the trade the Chinese so depend upon - you know, like India and those Houthis - from disrupting their shipping? Even, you know, as they seem intent on building a military designed specifically to attack the very same Navy that's been protecting their trade?

So be it Trump or Biden, one thing is becoming clear to everyone: America is increasingly losing interest in maintaining that global trade order, especially since China's cheating like he!! at it while working to unseat us as the Alpha Dog. Trump just said the quiet part out loud when he declared: "America needs to stop getting caught up in foreign (real) wars" and declared (trade) war on Chinese exports...and while Biden has been a lot more involved in world affairs, he's also shown zero interest in putting American boots down in foreign soil, and has doubled and tripled down on American hostility towards Chinese trade. As a nation, there's just no appetite for maintaining the old order. Yeah, we're annoyed at the Houthis. We're peeved with Iran. We'll still take potshots at them from a distance from time to time. But does anybody in the US - well, except for maybe John Bolton - want to wade in and start another war?

I mean: what's in it for us?

Nothin'. Nada. Zero. Zilch. We bled ourselves white in Iraq and Afghanistan, and got less than nothing back in return. As a nation, on both sides of the aisle, we're pretty much done with all that. We'll help where we can, sure, but the world can sort its own sh!t out. We're all pretty much there, I think.

And the world sees that, and bad actors are stepping into the void. And the "rules-based world order" we have maintained since the Bretton Woods Conference in 1944 is crumbling. An age of war and conflict is likely coming. I don't know if there's any way to stop it at this point. We don't want to enough...and I don't know if we could even if we wanted to.

It isn't that we're being weak. It's just that there's no pressing reason anymore for us to save people from themselves, especially when they're increasingly snapping at the hand that's been feeding them. And the world is duly going apesh!t now that the World Police are stepping back.

And yeah, it's unsettling. The world is indeed going crazy and it's scary to watch. But the only alternative is yet another big war, this one likely against Iran and possibly also against China over Taiwan.

Is anybody here up for that?

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Rumor has it (on twitter fwiw) that Iran also launched ballistic missiles


Apr 14, 2024, 10:35 AM
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last night. An exoatmospheric intercept was "allegedly" caught on camera.

Not shure if real, but if not, it's a good fake.

https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1779306782596256199

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-tiggity-110.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


I wonder how well that would work against a 'ramjet' missile...?***


Apr 14, 2024, 10:58 AM
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In theory it should still work. You're not catching up with the missile

1

Apr 14, 2024, 11:29 AM
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You're just intercepting it. A lot of math and computing, and data would have to fly, but you should be able to intercept one no matter how fast. The russians have figured out how to steer their ballistic missiles though, making random turns making an intercept course hard, or possibly impossible to calculate.

Still think the most likely case for anyone detonating a nuke in the US is smuggled in somehow.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-tiggity-110.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Re: In theory it should still work. You're not catching up with the missile


Apr 15, 2024, 9:45 AM
Reply

Not true at all. The faster it is going, the harder it is to shoot down.

The most obvious issue is that the interceptor has to process targeting information 2x, 5x, 20x faster. Interceptors were designed for the threat of yesterday, not hypersonics, which is generally defined as speeds > Mach 5.

Another issue is that the interceptor generally will need to fly faster. This brings its own set of problems with it.

The faster it flies, the hotter its surface gets as well as all the internal components get hotter. Hypersonic missile surfaces can exceed 1000 deg C. At these temperatures molecules start to ionize near the radome surface which attenuates any radar or other RF sensors that are targeting the incoming missile. So the degraded signal makes the target harder, maybe impossible, to track.

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Re: Rumor has it (on twitter fwiw) that Iran also launched ballistic missiles


Apr 14, 2024, 12:16 PM [ in reply to Rumor has it (on twitter fwiw) that Iran also launched ballistic missiles ]
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The US is claiming they shot down several.

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Re: Rumor has it (on twitter fwiw) that Iran also launched ballistic missiles


Apr 14, 2024, 12:23 PM
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The Israelis, anyhow, are verifying this.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/how-israel-foiled-irans-ballistic-missile-attack-that-focused-on-an-f-35-airbase/

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Israel would do best to let this be it.


Apr 14, 2024, 3:17 PM
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Has to be embarrassing enough for Iran as it is.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-tiggity-110.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


So this is the final vestiges Western Colonialism? How will the BIS handle it?***


Apr 14, 2024, 11:01 AM
Reply



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Re: So this is the final vestiges Western Colonialism? How will the BIS handle it?***


Apr 14, 2024, 12:57 PM
Reply

I genuinely don't know. I don't have much of a crystal ball. Peter Zeihan's been doing a really interesting web series on what the world looks like "Post-America" - which means what happens when America finally does take that last step back from the Bretton Woods system and just lets the pieces fall where they may, not the end of America itself - and it's really fascinating. And in many, many cases...very grim.

I keep saying this, but while the world may be tired of us and we did bring a certain amount of that on ourselves, the world is also very much going to miss us when we're gone. Up until Bretton Woods the world had always been about clashing empires, and it looks very much intent on returning to that...even as the US is sort of falling back to a pan-Anglo inner circle that also likely includes Japan, Mexico, and - shockingly - Vietnam, in addition to Canada, Australia, New Zealand...and whether they like it or not, England. The limies pretty much sealed that fate when they Brexited the EU - which isn't long for this world anyhow - and we're the last game left on Earth, and at some point the Brits are going to have to bow to the inevitable and come to us with hat in hand. They'll be grumpy about it.

The rest of the world...I don't think we'll much care, as long as it doesn't trouble us. What happens then is likely really bad, since so many of those nations have become extraordinarily dependent on the global order. What happens when Africa - which is on a razor's edge as far as food supply anyway -can't get farm equipment and fertilizer from the US or Europe? What happens when the Chinese can't get fuel out of the Middle East and Russia because India's blocking it or there's widespread war in that part of the world? What happens when Iran and Saudi Arabia finally go at it with serious intent? What happens when Russia collapses, and China? Because all that's coming, and a whole lot more.

I think as a nation we pretty much need to batten the hatches and ride it out, protect our little coalition, and acknowledge we really can't stop it. We did our part and then some for 80 years...but I don't see how we keep it going much longer.

An example from Zeihan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v8AT1Q9-iI

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Climate change hysteria, thats why.

4

Apr 14, 2024, 11:27 AM
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Your assertion that trump emboldened Russia is laughable.

Russia was nothing until the EU gave up fossil fuels. Now the EU demands that the U.S. protect them from Russia, while simultaneously funding Russia’s military.

This is why trump called out NATO (especially Merkel). Biden subsequently cancelled a pipeline in the U.S. and approved Russia’s in a ### moment so that Germany could import even more natural gas from Russia.

The climate alarmists are to blame.


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stop bringing fakks, libtards dont like it***

1

Apr 14, 2024, 11:48 AM
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If she's a hollerer, she'll be a screamer.
If she's a screamer, she'll get you arrested.


Re: Climate change hysteria, thats why.


Apr 14, 2024, 12:07 PM [ in reply to Climate change hysteria, thats why. ]
Reply

Every word in that post is just...wrong. But arguing with you would take time and concern I just don't have, and you've long-since convinced everyone on here it's pointless.

But carry on anyhow. You get something out of it, I guess.

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You said this " Trump's kowtowing to Russia encouraged their aggression"

2

Apr 14, 2024, 12:30 PM
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But did not support that statement with any facts. Why? Because there aren't any.

Did he ease sanctions like Biden? Did he broker the Uranium One deal, like Clinton? Did he try to reduce natural gas exports like Obama and Biden that would enrich Russia.

No. He didn't do any of those. He did do these things, however:
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/on-the-record-the-u-s-administrations-actions-on-russia/

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Re: Climate change hysteria, thats why.


Apr 14, 2024, 12:47 PM [ in reply to Climate change hysteria, thats why. ]
Reply

Yes Trump emboldened Russia to the point that Russia did absolutely nothing remotely aggressive during his term (unlike during Obamas terms) and then immediately attacked another country yet again once the Biden administration took over. So eight years of Russia aggression, four years of Russia passivity, and three years of Russia aggression (and counting) means its the guy who was in charge during the quiet years who is the problem. Left wing kooks never disappoint with their revisionist history. Next thing you know they'll be telling us the problems at the border are also Trumps fault. Oh wait.....

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Why exactly would Russia act aggressively or hostile to neighboring nations

2

Apr 14, 2024, 8:45 PM
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when a sitting US President was actively trying to weaken and ultimately dismantle NATO? The dissolution of NATO is 1.A on Russia's wishlist. It's tough for you guys to accept that Putin is about a million times smarter than Trump, especially in geopolitics--something Putin has been doing for half a century.

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Well they continued to fight Ukraine while Trump was in office....


Apr 14, 2024, 8:51 PM [ in reply to Re: Climate change hysteria, thats why. ]
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They are still in Syria to this day. And they continued with political assassinations, as well as with trying to disrupt elections & such.

This narrative that Putin behaved when Trump was in office is nonsense.

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ALL of that is BS. ALL of it.***


Apr 14, 2024, 11:53 PM
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Unfortunately I think yesterday was just a practice execise


Apr 14, 2024, 12:32 PM
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in how many ordinances have to be fired to overwhelm the Isreal Air Defense System. They are incredibly Vulnerable with 90% of their drinking water coming from 3 Desalination Plants on the coast, all within range of Hellbalah rockets to the north, along with 70% of their domestic energy supply being pumped through offshore platforms and vulnerable to rocket attacks to the West. About 5-10 well-placed ordinances would bring their nation to its knees.


The only solution I see is to put Netanyahu in a straight jacket and set him on a 1-way flight to Tairan with a nice Gift Basket signed by all the Nato Members. I think we may be able to reach some sort of cease fire agreement and hostage return, then, and only then.

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Re: Unfortunately I think yesterday was just a practice execise


Apr 14, 2024, 1:47 PM
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I don't know that even that would work. That whole region is a powder keg our attempts to keep the peace increasingly look like trying to contain an explosion in a mason jar - and the explosion is likely going to be just that much worse for the attempt.

We need to distance ourselves. Soon. Yesterday would have been better. Banking on guys like Netanyahu and Bin Salman and the Ayatollah and whatever psycho's running Hamas to come to any sort of reasonable mea culpa seems...optimistic.

Do any of them even have that file on their hard drive?

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The last 20 years have been a mind ####


Apr 14, 2024, 2:54 PM
Reply

Really there is only one party in American politics that has done a complete about face when it comes to this question. The rebellion against Obama after he talked tough about taking action in Syria signaled the party’s preference for completely withdrawing from the world. It is no surprise either after everything they screwed up under Bush in Iraq. The lies they tell now about the recent past and their newfound isolationist religion showcase how their once strong credibility on the matter was irrevocably lost.

So the GOP has no credibility, where does that leave us? A Democratic Party that is staunchly anti-Russia and anti-China, containment-focused, but over-run by foreign lobbyists dictating how we run our own foreign policy, Israel for example but also now Ukraine and Taiwan to a lesser degree.

I feel like party politics is largely driving this problem though, and that’s a dangerous thing because our enemies see it and are much more willing to take risks knowing we don’t have the national resolve to act. See Putin and Crimes in 2014, Putin in 2023, Iran on Oct. 7, etc.

If nothing else, we do better when our chief adversaries fear our resolve. Now they just see political dysfunction that has carried outside the border,

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Well, about half of the GOP is pro-Russia....


Apr 14, 2024, 8:56 PM
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They are more likely to actually quote Russian disinformation & fall for Russian tricks than I ever would've imagined. They literally sound like they're giving Vladimir Putin's talking points for him. And if Ukraine falls, it will likely be blood on the GOP's hands.

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Re: Chaos in the world? Wonder why?


Apr 15, 2024, 2:54 AM
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Snek

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The reason there will be a Post American World


Apr 15, 2024, 9:50 AM
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is because the left is knowingly destroying the ability of the USA to be the dominant financial and military global power. Period.

The 'capitalism is evil' culture along with everyone is a victim, nonstop deficits, bigger gubment, and borrowing are the problems. These are the reasons the USA is in decline and will likely stay that way.

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