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CU Medallion [55912]
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UBI: The COVID experiment.
Sep 3, 2021, 10:25 AM
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One of the recent politicians who has intrigued APM is Andrew Yang. While he does not have the chops to get elected, even as mayor of NYC, he does have some interesting ideas. Chief among them, Universal Basic Income.
If you look at the rationale for UBI, some of it makes good sense. Firstly, and concerningly, the amount of wealth in the hands of a few people is concerning. You can fit the handful of the world's richest in a bus. Mostly tech of course. And that is problematic because gone are the days of manufacturing jobs that spread middle-class style income and benefits to the masses. So if only 20 or so people control most of the world's wealth, we may indeed need to "spread it around" as BHO said.
Secondly, UBI is a way to give poor people just enough cushion to let them get by while also freeing up some of the entitlement and welfare hoops people have to jump through now to get money from the government. So moneywise, it's kind of a wash. I do disability exams and Social Security disability has risen steadily since the mid-1980s for children and those 18-64. And it has skyrocketed over the past 20 years.
During the 2020 election campaign many argued against UBI for a variety of reasons, but then COVID hit and guess what? We all got a dose of UBI.
There have been pros - keeping a lot of people out of the worst of situations they could not control, arguably keeping the economy from a major recession, letting people deal with COVID stuff and not have to worry so much about work while doing it.
OTOH, we see what this has done to the labor market. Good luck hiring a decent employee for less than $15/hour (backdoor minimum wage). And is the economy really back? Was the juice worth the squeeze long term?
What say you P&Rites?
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All-In [46905]
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I'll go ahead and help all of those pubs on here....
Sep 3, 2021, 10:30 AM
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ARE YOU CRAZY? THIS IS SOCIALISM/COMMUNISM/FACISM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: UBI: The COVID experiment.
Sep 3, 2021, 10:30 AM
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Hall of Famer [20560]
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CU Medallion [60234]
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Hard and resounding NO
Sep 3, 2021, 10:32 AM
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FBcoach types would even more worthless
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CU Medallion [73569]
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we can't even get people to go back to work with $300
Sep 3, 2021, 10:49 AM
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extra in their pocket.
Ya, all this will do is make the lazy and worthless even more lazy and worthless.
Oh, and make them even more reliant on the government teet.
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Orange Blooded [2999]
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If it were truly universal, I would imagine wages might end
Sep 3, 2021, 10:32 AM
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up being lower. We've seen this already with companies that hire many employees in an area that still end up on government assistance to bridge the gap to a livable wage.
It's inevitable though with automation to stave off an all out class war.
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CU Medallion [60234]
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Who is paying for it?
Sep 3, 2021, 10:34 AM
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Who is paying for every person to get a check?
You and your kids. That is who is paying. Total bulls hit.
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Orange Blooded [2999]
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You're correct. But that doesn't change the trajectory that
Sep 3, 2021, 10:36 AM
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we're on.
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Oculus Spirit [97903]
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That's correct. Replacing bad ideas with new bad ideas
Sep 3, 2021, 10:41 AM
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Doesn't change anything. Lipstick on a pig.
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All-In [46905]
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We are already paying for it
Sep 3, 2021, 10:42 AM
[ in reply to Who is paying for it? ] |
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Corporations such as Walmart are already paying their people below a livable wage so that the government (and therefore us) have to supplement their income with welfare.
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CU Medallion [60234]
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That’s not meant to be a job
Sep 3, 2021, 11:58 AM
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That sustains 3-4 kids and a house. What do you not understand about that?
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All-In [46905]
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It can't sustain college kids trying to pay tuition
Sep 3, 2021, 12:05 PM
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it can't support a family.
It can't support a high school student having to work to help his mother make ends meet.
So what is that job suppose to do?
Or are we saying what is normally unsaid? That some people don't deserve enough money to live even if they work full time
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CU Medallion [60234]
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it’s supposed to be supplemental
Sep 3, 2021, 12:10 PM
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income. You know, a second job while you are in school or climbing that ladder so you don’t have a pallet deck and a 20 year old truck.
My first job out of college was at Enterprise Rent a Car. At night I stocked shelves at Sam’s Club. That how it works man.
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All-In [46905]
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I know this is a radical idea, but what if we took those
Sep 3, 2021, 12:12 PM
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millions in profit that Walmart makes every quarter, and use a portion of it where their workers DON'T have to work 2 jobs to make ends meet? Or is that too socialist for you?
What a crazy ####### idea that maybe people should be able to make ends meet on one job so they can spend time with their family, enjoy hobbies, etc.
Wow. Crazy. I know.
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Lot o points [156217]
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I really think macroeconomics escapes you entirely.
Sep 3, 2021, 12:16 PM
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As if that reassignment of wealth occurs in a vacuum, and there's zero cause and effect results.
I mean, you're basically the guy wondering out loud why a lotto winner doesn't just give you a million bucks since they won't miss it.
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All-In [46905]
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Stockholm syndrome ITT
Sep 3, 2021, 12:18 PM
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I knew the next answer was going to be: you can't expect a multibillion dollar business to cut a portion of their profits to pay people to live!
THINK OF THE BILLIONAIRES, HOW WILL THEY AFFORD ANOTHER YACHT?!!!
Message was edited by: FBCoachSC®
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Lot o points [156217]
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Hey FBC....I'll give you this huge shiny nickel for that little old dime.
Sep 3, 2021, 12:20 PM
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All-In [46905]
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You should definitely go to your boss and tell him
Sep 3, 2021, 12:21 PM
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that you don't need that raise, he should add it to the profits they are making.
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Lot o points [156217]
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Thanks I am my own boss. You should go look up
Sep 3, 2021, 12:24 PM
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public vs private companies and the effect that cutting a performance metric like net profit in half would have on shareholder price.
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Lot o points [156217]
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Pee Ess - it's likely that the govt employee pension
Sep 3, 2021, 12:23 PM
[ in reply to Stockholm syndrome ITT ] |
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fund that you're counting on has a decent amount of assets tied up in blue chips like Wal-Mart. "Billionaires" like you are counting on those profit margins to remain where they are.
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All-In [46905]
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So are you going to give back any raises/bonuses
Sep 3, 2021, 12:24 PM
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since your work needs it more than you?
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Lot o points [156217]
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2nd time.....I own my own business.
Sep 3, 2021, 12:26 PM
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A number that's far greater than my personal pay gets reinvested into growing my business annually.
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All-In [46905]
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Congrats. Lower your take to 7.50 an hour
Sep 3, 2021, 12:31 PM
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and pour all of the money back in your business.
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Lot o points [156217]
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Better yet, you could start your own business and
Sep 3, 2021, 12:34 PM
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give it all away to meet your arbitrarily formulated appropriate level of profitability.
Alternatively, you could continue sitting around doing the bare minimum, constantly griping about those you're paid to serve, and developing illogical hypotheses as to why your pay isn't double what it is.
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All-In [46905]
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Great ducking of the situation. Drop your pay to 7.50
Sep 3, 2021, 12:35 PM
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and reinvest the extra into your company. That's what you're expecting these Wal-mart etc workers to do.
Oh no sir, don't let make more money. The company needs it far more than I do
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Lot o points [156217]
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ducking? My employees make $15-20, but it's
Sep 3, 2021, 12:39 PM
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an irrelevant comparison you're trying to make. I created the company. I brought in the customers. I developed the way in which we serve those customers. I pay the accountants, lawyers, landlord, insurance and everything else, and I absolutely sign the checks that my employees get every two weeks.
It's a little different pay scale than showing up, putting on an apron and barely stifling a yawn as I run items over a barcode scanner.
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All-In [46905]
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I will edit the post then. Drop yours to 15 an hour
Sep 3, 2021, 12:42 PM
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The premise is still there. The working class should work multiple jobs, leave their children at home alone most days just to pay bills because that's how it has always worked then have to listen to republican mouth breathers disparage them for being on welfare because 2 minimum wage jobs still isn't enough to put food on the table.
But god forbid this country actually look after the workers. Hell no. We got to make sure 10 multi billion dollar companies have the best profit margins ever.
Then the workers come on threads like this and defend it.
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Lot o points [156217]
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So it's your opinion that job creators should make
Sep 3, 2021, 12:44 PM
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exactly the same as those who work for them?
It's like you've taken the worst parts of every economic system and combined it into one model. That's amazing.
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All-In [46905]
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No I'm using your outlook against you
Sep 3, 2021, 12:47 PM
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that workers who can't make ends meet should not get more money because profit margins have to be as big as possible even when there is plenty (maybe not your business but large corps like Wal-mart) to pay them a livable wage. Instead these companies pay under the livable wage threshold and expect us, the taxpayers to supplement it.
It was either Wal-mart or mcdonald's that actually had training and pamphlets on how to get on welfare because they knew their workers wouldn't make enough to live on.
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Lot o points [156217]
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Again, you’re too micro, but I’ll play.
Sep 3, 2021, 12:58 PM
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Let’s end govt assistance for anyone who is working. Everyone would quit and Walmart would have to pay them more to get them back. It’s a market solution. You’re mad at Walmart but the govt assistance is the variable bastardizing the equation and allowing Walmart to pay less.
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All-In [46905]
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Yep. Punish the poor by withdrawing the only thing keeping
Sep 3, 2021, 1:03 PM
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them afloat. Great idea
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Lot o points [156217]
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It’s the govt intervention that got the wage to where it is
Sep 3, 2021, 1:06 PM
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But sure, let’s have govt intervene some more to make it “fair”. I’m sure it’ll work this time.
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All-In [46905]
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Because people working multiple jobs and still them and
Sep 3, 2021, 1:07 PM
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their kids starving does not make a great society.
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CU Medallion [64837]
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Where are these starving kids?
Sep 3, 2021, 1:16 PM
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most are fat as heck
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All-In [31938]
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If someone is a hard worker and working multiple...
Sep 3, 2021, 1:19 PM
[ in reply to Because people working multiple jobs and still them and ] |
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jobs and they and their kids are starving, then there are a lot of other bad choices/habits in the equation.
Avg wage at Wal-mart is $16.40/hour.
There are a TON of available manufacturing jobs paying $15/hr and higher, with good benefits available just about everywhere right now.
Now is just the wrong time to be arguing about someone wanting to work hard and not being able to survive. It's BS in my opinion.
I've got 20 open positions right now with the lowest paid one over $15/hr...we can't fill them. And if we do fill them, a high % of the time the new employee is gone within the first month due to attendance issues.
There is a certain segment that simply don't want to work. It's a big problem and it's being exposed more than ever right now and a UBI will not only not help that situation, but it will make it much worse.
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Oculus Spirit [79506]
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All-In [46905]
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I know for a fact I make more than you***
Sep 3, 2021, 1:04 PM
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CU Medallion [64837]
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Re: I know for a fact I make more than you***
Sep 3, 2021, 1:06 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79506]
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Oh I'm rolling plah doh snakes waiting for this to pop off
Sep 3, 2021, 1:12 PM
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I've never seen a social studies teacher try to flex on someone with their salary, so this should be good.
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All-In [42418]
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Oculus Spirit [79506]
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All-In [46905]
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The way you post and your outlook on life screams
Sep 3, 2021, 1:14 PM
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Industrial maintenance in Liberty SC
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CU Medallion [60234]
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You are such a ########
Sep 3, 2021, 1:15 PM
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for real.
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All-In [46905]
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I don't think I was replying to you***
Sep 3, 2021, 1:16 PM
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CU Medallion [60234]
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You weren’t but you are still a
Sep 3, 2021, 1:31 PM
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Fuck-Tard and Snapchat proved it beyond all means.
You are so miserable that you project onto others and it’s quite admirable that you continue to wallow in self defeat.
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All-In [46905]
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I'll be waiting for your "pay attention to me" rant
Sep 3, 2021, 1:34 PM
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around 10 tonight
Message was edited by: FBCoachSC®
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CU Medallion [64837]
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That's not what he does, but
Sep 3, 2021, 1:15 PM
[ in reply to The way you post and your outlook on life screams ] |
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even if he did, we have a stack of dudes pulling down $100K plus in "industrial maintenance". some probably in the $120-130K range.
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All-In [46905]
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I doubt that's the case at King Lumber Mill***
Sep 3, 2021, 1:17 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79506]
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Oh but it is, so this is yet another thread where you
Sep 3, 2021, 1:18 PM
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display your profound lack of knowledge about anything outside of a high school campus.
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Oculus Spirit [79506]
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I also want to point out the hilarity of a backwoods redneck
Sep 3, 2021, 1:27 PM
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like yourself who lives in a ###### house in a ###### town disparaging blue collar maintenance techs.
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Oculus Spirit [79506]
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Even if I worked industrial maintenance in Liberty, SC
Sep 3, 2021, 1:17 PM
[ in reply to The way you post and your outlook on life screams ] |
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It would still pay more than you make.
The way you post and your outlook on life screams, well, small town social studies teacher with average to below average IQ.
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All-In [46905]
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I think you mean educated***
Sep 3, 2021, 1:17 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79506]
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I hope this is where you conflate getting worthless degrees
Sep 3, 2021, 1:20 PM
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with intelligence so we can put the cherry on top of this thread.
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All-In [46905]
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"worthless degrees" from a dude who barely got out of HS***
Sep 3, 2021, 1:26 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79506]
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I've got a B.S. degree from Clemson there hotshot.***
Sep 3, 2021, 1:29 PM
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All-In [46905]
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Congrats on the lowest form of post HS education***
Sep 3, 2021, 1:29 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79506]
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I'd imagine it was a lot more rigorous than anything
Sep 3, 2021, 1:32 PM
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Francis Marion could throw at me.
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All-In [46905]
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We did a little more than "righty tighty lefty loosy"***
Sep 3, 2021, 1:34 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79506]
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But not much more, it appears.***
Sep 3, 2021, 1:36 PM
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All-In [42418]
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This thread...
Sep 3, 2021, 2:07 PM
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A+++++
Y'all please don't stop.
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Oculus Spirit [79506]
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That down with the bourgeoise meme was pretty fire wasnt it***
Sep 3, 2021, 2:53 PM
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CU Medallion [60234]
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When is the last time you think
Sep 3, 2021, 1:34 PM
[ in reply to I'd imagine it was a lot more rigorous than anything ] |
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FBCoach went to a Clemson game? 88 when grandpappy and memaw took him for his birthday?
Never ever seen the guy post one thing about Clemson football or any sport.
And the dumb-fuck got himself fired after one season of head coaching so lord knows he is one to talk about people’s jobs.
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Oculus Spirit [79506]
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I don't think he's ever been north of Newberry, so probably
Sep 3, 2021, 1:42 PM
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never. I do like how he gets all virtue signally about the working man, and then in the same thread starts talking disparagingly about blue collar workers.
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CU Medallion [64837]
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Nothing good happens north of Newberry, anyway.
Sep 3, 2021, 1:59 PM
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besides Clemson.
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All-In [42418]
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I mean, Greenville's okay sometimes.
Sep 3, 2021, 2:14 PM
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Spartanburg, too, if you're into meth, mullets, and crime.
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All-In [31938]
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All-In [46905]
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Pretty #### close before taxes***
Sep 3, 2021, 1:22 PM
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All-In [31938]
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Not trying to be rude, but you make <$60k and you're...
Sep 3, 2021, 2:25 PM
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running your mouth on here about salaries?
This is confusing
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Oculus Spirit [79506]
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It’s always the poorest people who talk about how much
Sep 3, 2021, 2:36 PM
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Money they make. It’s lakebums rule of life #14.
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Lot o points [156217]
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Generally true, except my R8 sleeve tat doosher
Sep 3, 2021, 2:44 PM
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breaks that rule....he actually does clear $400k+, he just doesn't have the manners not to talk about it.
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All-In [31938]
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All rules have to have an exception for heavy dooshers***
Sep 3, 2021, 3:06 PM
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Lot o points [156217]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Orange Blooded [2999]
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I'm talking about 15-20 years from now. Automation
Sep 3, 2021, 10:40 AM
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isn't going away.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: I'm talking about 15-20 years from now. Automation
Sep 3, 2021, 10:49 AM
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Orange Blooded [2999]
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But that's an objective problem. We've told people if
Sep 3, 2021, 10:52 AM
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they're unhappy with the wage they're receiving in a low-skill job (Subway sandwich "artists" obviously excluded) to go and get a better one. You can make more delivering for a McDonald's than working in one.
There's around 12 million working in food service in the US. I'm not sure if there's a need for 12 million additional tradesman.
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Lot o points [156217]
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Why do all 12 million need jobs?
Sep 3, 2021, 11:41 AM
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Do you foresee a future where a McDonald’s doesn’t need a single human? Where good chefs at nice restaurants are no longer desired? Where diners value a robot more than good table service?
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Hall of Famer [20560]
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Re: Why do all 12 million need jobs?
Sep 3, 2021, 11:44 AM
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Maybe a couple, to maintain the robots and maintain oversight, and do occasional customer service when the robot (or more likely the customer typing in the order) messes up.
Mickey D's and a lot of fast-food places are going to be largely automated kiosks at the some point. They're starting to get there in a lot of places in their stores already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3Gi1kab-qQ
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Lot o points [156217]
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I understand and agree. They were just one facet of my
Sep 3, 2021, 11:47 AM
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Rebuttal. For mid to higher end dining though, unless cultural preferences change drastically, we want skilled labor (dare say artists at the highest end) preparing our meals and a human touch of service delivering it.
For Applebee’s/chili’s and down, sure, some automation will come. Above that? Don’t see it in my lifetime.
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Hall of Famer [20560]
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Re: I understand and agree. They were just one facet of my
Sep 3, 2021, 11:54 AM
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History also tells us that the more basics people have, the more people will want their luxuries. So IMHO the demand for actual fine dining is going to continue to grow even as the bottom-level jobs at Mickey D's get increasingly whittled down.
The problem is going to be transitioning a lot of basic laborers to more skilled trades. Right now increasingly we're seeing big chunks of people not making that jump...and winding up completely homeless. Or outright criminals. And that's no good either.
If we don't address that problem all this New & Improved is going to create an increasingly resentful underclass of perpetual losers with no hope of upward social mobility. In fact you can argue we're doing it in droves already.
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Lot o points [156217]
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We're definitely doing it.
Sep 3, 2021, 12:13 PM
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I'm sure someone (assuming anyone reads a reply this deep in a thread) will give me a "let them eat cake" type response, but the fact is, for the most part, the struggle is no longer all that real.
Most of our extreme homelessness and poverty issues have mental health/substance abuse tie-ins, so largely not economic. The rest of our "lower class" lives better than the most fortunate in a large swath of the world.
Like I said, I'm not callously suggesting they've got it good, but housing, food, and transportation are accounted for to the point that someone motivated by base survival instincts (the strongest motivators of all) no longer need experience those motivations, and for those who aspire for more, for a large portion of them we saw that an extra $600 a week dissolved those aspirations completely under Covid unemployment benefits.
As we type this, in my area there are relatively unskilled jobs going unfilled in the $20-25/hour range, while plenty of able-bodied potential workers are at home "earning" far less than that.
Either the worker class has been convinced that ambition doesn't pay, or Uncle Sugar has finally chipped in enough to buy their ambition.
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CU Medallion [64837]
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preach.
Sep 3, 2021, 12:20 PM
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By all standards, I excelled through grade school (student of the year, etc.). I am a degreed mech. engineer from Clemson. I spent 5 years cutting my teeth as a lead mechanic on rotating shift. I've turned wrenches and troubleshot and hydraulic electrical components over every inch of our $1B factory. Basically, I'm saying that my 'ish don't stink when it comes to my job.
That being said, we need 20 of me at our plant, not just 1 or maybe 2. I consider myself to be a skilled laborer.... the guys who we pay to be skilled laborers, are probably just regular laborers and our laborers should be wearing drool pans and catching flies in their mouths.
I was going somewhere with this, but I really just wanted to brag on myself and tell yall that I'm ready to get the hailll out of this place and crack a beer.
luv you bois
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Oculus Spirit [79506]
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A big part of the current problem is a large chunk of the
Sep 3, 2021, 10:56 AM
[ in reply to Re: I'm talking about 15-20 years from now. Automation ] |
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labor pool can't even do those things. They are for all practical purposes completely untrainable. It is shocking how many people are barely above the intelligence level of domesticated pets, and it seems to be getting much worse.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: A big part of the current problem is a large chunk of the
Sep 3, 2021, 11:10 AM
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Lot o points [156217]
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Reminds me of the handwringing over automobiles.
Sep 3, 2021, 11:36 AM
[ in reply to I'm talking about 15-20 years from now. Automation ] |
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They’d devastate the economy by putting breeders, stable owners, blacksmiths, and oat farmers out of work!!!!
There will be jobs in the future, not even that far away, that you and I can’t dream up right now
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CU Medallion [73569]
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even more recent, computers
Sep 3, 2021, 11:46 AM
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computers were supposed to put millions out of jobs.
instead, it created millions of new high paying jobs.
music files were supposed to kill the music industry
then streaming music was supposed to kill the music industry.
besides the crappy music being made, the music companies are still doing fine
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Orange Blooded [2999]
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You're correct in some regards, but I think it's
Sep 3, 2021, 12:27 PM
[ in reply to Reminds me of the handwringing over automobiles. ] |
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the masses that are getting glossed over here. It's hardly an apt comparison when you consider that Ford was revolutionizing mass employment while automation will revolutionize mass unemployment.
Yes there will always be technical folks, but for those that were mentioned above that are simply untrainable, who's going to hire them to move a pile of papers from one side of the desk to another for 38 hours a week. The state?
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Lot o points [156217]
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BTF....friend......let me allay your fears for fast food
Sep 3, 2021, 12:31 PM
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workers with a single question.
"How often is the milkshake machine broken at a McDonalds?"
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Orange Blooded [2999]
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CU Medallion [64837]
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I thought for sure that the horse themed adult novelty
Sep 3, 2021, 12:27 PM
[ in reply to Reminds me of the handwringing over automobiles. ] |
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toy business would go out of business with the advent of the automobile, but thankfully degenerates like you all have kept them going.
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Hall of Famer [22044]
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I don’t think we’ll see automation move the needle
Sep 3, 2021, 5:23 PM
[ in reply to I'm talking about 15-20 years from now. Automation ] |
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As drastically or quickly as everyone says, and I’m in the automation business. Maybe in my grand kids generation, but even that’s stretching it.
Having said that though, us and all of our competitors are hiring. Our customers are hiring. There’s a huge need in the labor force to grow automated capabilities that aren’t being met.
The equipment needs to be designed, engineered, manufactured, coded, installed, commissioned, and maintained. That takes a lot of human capital.
There is a serious gap in STEM type people to support this growth.
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All-TigerNet [12679]
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Re: UBI: The COVID experiment.
Sep 3, 2021, 10:47 AM
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Brave new world--Money for nothing, chicks for free.
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Hall of Famer [24515]
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I think the problem needs to be first stated, whatever it is
Sep 3, 2021, 11:24 AM
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Wealth cannot be shifted by shifting currency. Attempts have consistently failed, in some cases so spectacularly that govts have murdered citizens who were merely examples of the failure, 50 million by the Soviets. Take all the money in the US, collect it (the govt can't, but lets just say), and distribute it equally. Come back in 5 years and everyone will have what they had before. Its not about currency.
Is raising the opportunity available to the bottom the goal, or is the focus merely the difference between the bottom and the top? If a problem is put it on the table, people will join in solving it. If the problem is instead a proxy for promoting an ideological war, war is all that will result. "Our rich people are too rich" is an ideological statement, one worth discussing. If that is the intent, fine. Otherwise, the actual issue needs to be stated.
Message was edited by: CUintulsa®
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Lot o points [156217]
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It’s a wonderful idea if
Sep 3, 2021, 11:32 AM
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-you think the welfare system has worked so well it needs to spread to everyone.
-you despise small business owners
-you want inflation to the point that the UBI amounts are almost negated
-you want the wage gap to be bigger than it is now, only with a large portion of the middle class moved lower.
-you loved the 20 year wage stagnation between Clinton and Trump and want more of it.
UBI is a fraud that cements the haves in their existing positions and more importantly to the haves, keeps the have nots securely in theirs.
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110%er [5712]
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Re: UBI: The COVID experiment.
Sep 3, 2021, 11:35 AM
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whatever 10,000 reasons you come up with for why UBI is a good idea, they are all moot because ultimately all GIVING people does is atrophy skills and create more dependence on the giving. Ultimately, this system must fail by the second law of thermodynamics.
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CU Medallion [55912]
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Good points by SOME of you. Now a personal question:
Sep 3, 2021, 12:05 PM
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Did YOU personally benefit from the COVID UBI experiment?
APM must confess he did. Firstly, the PPP monies helped me keep paying my staff when no income was coming in. Also, although I never touched it, the EIDL money let APM sleep easy knowing he had a low-interest backup should it all really fall apart.
Finally, between not doing anything for months AND getting those gummint checks, APM sure as heck built up his personal emergency fund. So if nothing else, for this marginally middle class middle aged white guy, it helped give me peace of mind, if nothing else.
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CU Medallion [64837]
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I didn't get a red cent of it.***
Sep 3, 2021, 12:14 PM
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CU Medallion [55912]
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why daphuque not?***
Sep 3, 2021, 12:18 PM
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CU Medallion [64837]
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too dang rich, I guess... which is a freaking joke***
Sep 3, 2021, 12:22 PM
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CU Medallion [55912]
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got any kids?***
Sep 3, 2021, 12:26 PM
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CU Medallion [64837]
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2***
Sep 3, 2021, 12:27 PM
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CU Medallion [55912]
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daayyyyum homes. You must be rich for real.***
Sep 3, 2021, 12:30 PM
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CU Medallion [64837]
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yes and no
Sep 3, 2021, 1:04 PM
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Couple A has a working dad making $100K. Mom stays at home and keeps the two kids. They have a 30 year mortgage on a $200K house.
Their income is low enough to get government money.
Couple B has both working parents. Dad makes $100K and mom makes $50K. They pay a babysitter $30K to keep the two kids. They have a 15 year mortgage on a $200K house.
They don't get government money, despite the fact that they have roughly the same amount of walkin' around money as Couple A.
That's just my basic explanation. I am Couple B in this hypothetical situation. Dollar amounts are pulled out of thin air.
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CU Medallion [60234]
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I have two kids
Sep 3, 2021, 1:12 PM
[ in reply to got any kids?*** ] |
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and my last commission check was taxed at 38% and I haven’t gotten one penny from stimulus. Tell me why I shouldn’t be mad a freeloaders like FBCoach.
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Orange Blooded [2999]
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Because we still need schoolteachers and coaches.
Sep 3, 2021, 1:21 PM
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Your job isn't exactly essential.
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Hall of Famer [24515]
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Good question. I don't think anyone benefited. We multiplied the
Sep 3, 2021, 1:14 PM
[ in reply to Good points by SOME of you. Now a personal question: ] |
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cost by delaying it with currency.
It began with "15 days to flatten the curve", proposed as a 'scientific' response. A year and a half later, we know what many said then, that a shutdown doesn't address what a virus does, so will create more problems than it delays. [I'm not saying we shouldn't have responded. I'm saying we got sold the wrong one for political reasons.]
The govt's next response was to pay for the cost of the shutdown. I think we're up to about $8 Trillion in response, all debt financed because the govt was already out of money. $1 Trillion is about $3000 for every person, including kids, or about $10,000 per household. We've done 8 of those. $25,000 per person, $75,000+ per family. On top of several hundred of those.
To count the manifested cost would take pages, but by category:
- Inflation is going to rob us of at least all that.
- Most of that money ended up in the hands of investors - it always does, even if it started out by paying rent - who have to put it somewhere. Much of it went to real estate, so now millennials cannot afford to own a house, though many now want to. IE, the rich got richer, the problem you started out with in your original post.
- Supply chains of workers and goods is still broken, costing who knows what in productivity.
Sure, if one owned a restaurant he paid his employees and kept that going. Under those conditions mandated to us, it was the only thing the restaurant owner could do. To mandate a work stoppage and pay the cost by issuing paper currency is two costs, however, not one. When one's 28 year old daughter has to delay buying her first house - while Blackstone makes millions in buying up houses to turn us into a nation of renters - we don't connect that event with the stimmis. But that is what it is. And we then blame Blackstone and propose to tax them more as a solution. We've lost our minds.
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CU Medallion [64837]
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^^^ this dude nailed it^^^
Sep 3, 2021, 1:20 PM
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picture is just to get your attention with this huge text thread.
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CU Medallion [64837]
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manufacturing has not gone away,
Sep 3, 2021, 12:13 PM
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you just aren't aware of it.
Factories all over the country have no-experience, no-skill manufacturing jobs, offering decent money that are going unfilled.
We're paying $17/hr base, unlimited overtime opportunities, annual bonuses that are about 10%, plus good health insurance, company match 401K, 2 weeks vacation right off the rip, time bank, plus other stuff like dental, life insurance, basically the normal stuff a decent company gives out).... all of that for somebody who can just move things back and forth and count to 10 (and pass a drug test). WE STILL CANT FILL THESE JOBS. Nobody can. We are throwing away 25% of our business, during our most profitable year, because we can only fill 3 of our 4 rotating shift crews.
Our plant is just about as automated as possible. Automation galore. Half the plant is maintenance: engineers, mechanics, electricians, automation techs, etc. Most of the rest are laborers. The maintenace trade jobs are probably $28/hr to $40/hr with the afformentioned benefits. Those jobs are easier to fill, but we still struggle. Dudes from the service, especially Navy Nukes do the best.
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Hall of Famer [24515]
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Govt does something, we scream about the unintended
Sep 3, 2021, 1:21 PM
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consequence, so govt does more of it.
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All-TigerNet [12679]
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Hall of Famer [22044]
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I hate I missed this one. Looked fun
Sep 3, 2021, 5:15 PM
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First off, my biggest gripe with Donny Pump was opening Pandora’s box of sending capital directly to citizens. Should’ve never done that.
You can’t really make an argument for UBI when we have the amount of job openings available that we do. Wages are already pretty inflated due to the government paying people to not work. If folks are trying to provide for their families on a minimum wage job, they should leverage tools to get more education, training, etc to gain employment with a higher salary. I think it’s pretty naive to come in here and scream at corporations paying someone what they’re willing to be paid.
If the biggest driver of UBI is wealth inequality, you’re going about this all wrong. Paying people more money won’t fix this problem, it will exacerbate it (case in point, wealth growth since covid). What happens when you give a bunch of school bus drivers free money? They blow it on ####. Useless #### at 40+ % GM. Either way you’re feeding the shareholder class.
The issue is the financialization of our economy promoting avenues for funds to make serious returns without adding any value to our economy.
Get the fed to stop propping the market up to a dystopic level completely absent from Main Street. Limit firms abilities to buy back shares with available capital and instead reimburse to employees. Continue pushing for manufacturing jobs to come back to the states. Provide cheaper training for trades schools.
Our economy is a house of cards right now. The Fed is keeping us propped up, and by doing so catapulting wealthy individuals to higher levels of wealth year in and year out.
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