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YOUR BALANCE
CDC messaging gets an F
General Boards - COVID
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Replies: 14
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CDC messaging gets an F


Aug 24, 2021, 10:41 PM
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Honest to god, it couldn't have gone worse.

Back on May 13 the CDC advised everyone that if you were vaccinated you didn't need to wear masks indoors. Not only that, but the proposition was that if you get the vaccine, your life can be normal again! No more masks, no more social distancing, it's time to party!!!

Whether or not you agree with the effectiveness of masks, one thing for certain is that vaccinated people not only took their masks off, but they then let their guard down all the way, having been given the false impression that a vaccine guaranteed them sufficient immunity such that there was no way they could transmit the virus. That turned out to be a wildly incorrect assumption.

The present situation with all these breakthrough cases reinforces the argument that calling these treatments "vaccines" is well-intentioned but probably overstated.

The CDC was overly optimistic after the spring based on the transmission data. They knew from the get-go that vaccinated people could still transit the virus and the lurking potential danger of variants.

But that messaging was in conflict with the governments rosy assessments and promotion of a return to normalcy through vaccination. They conflated the word "vaccine" to imply that these marvels of modern medicine cure us of all of our pandemic problems. We could finally go back to the office, go back to school, have big weddings, bar mitzvahs, etc.

Now, after having sold everyone on "the cure", they've unintentionally created a credibility problem thanks to all the breakthrough cases amongst the vaccinated. Apparently virus variants don't give a #### about semantics.

The public relations message fail is only going to make vaccination harder going forward, so you have to wonder if maybe they could have managed expectations and called these shots something more mundane.... like
"derisking agents", lol.


https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02187-1


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You and I disagree on the specifics of many things, but I


Aug 24, 2021, 11:25 PM
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couldn't agree more with you on this. You made a good case, and all I would add is that the cdc messaging has been less about "This is what we know and don't know", and more about, "This is how we want you to behave." Because it was the latter, inconsistency became the norm. No one ever likes that, and it never works. If the message stays on "This is what we know", that message never has to change: what one knows might change, but that's all. People will grant that. Inconsistency and agenda are never believed.

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Re: CDC messaging gets an F


Aug 24, 2021, 11:56 PM
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Messaging aside, how vengeance will be exacted upon China is what I want to know. How will their Commie #ss government be made to pay for infecting the world with their lab-spawned virus? Do they pay at all, or does the rest of the world just glance askance, like gendered-confused adolescents in biology class?

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We won’t do squat


Aug 25, 2021, 12:49 AM
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As a country we don’t even have the collective willpower to stop sending them money for their dirt cheap products and investing American pension funds in their companies.

We are over-invested in their markets. That’s a problem that can be fixed, it just takes some guts to do the right thing by your country.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/188629/united-states-direct-investments-in-china-since-2000/


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Agreed. And it goes back way further than that.


Aug 25, 2021, 2:10 AM
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So much they've gotten wrong. Plastic barriers... Worthless. 6 foot rule....... Same. Masks don't help, they do help, you don't need them anymore, double mask. Then Yesterday Fauci pushed the goal post back to the Spring. In the spring it will now be over.

And with the vaccines.... Breakthrough cases are rare. Then breakthrough cases are common. Technically they aren't breakthrough as nothing is being broken through.

Each time you know what's happening. You know the CDC is wrong based on foreign data and science. Then whatever comes here. The same thing then happens here. Then the CDC does some study and then appears shocked the same thing happened here as in other places.

Been like this since day 1.

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When a vaccinated Fauci walked into a vaccinated


Aug 25, 2021, 2:52 AM
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congressional hearing wearing two masks, any doubts of his willingness to put message over truth were gone.

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He wore two masks because he knew he could spread it just as


Aug 25, 2021, 9:16 AM
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easy as anyone else. And he then had to figure out a way to say he was wrong, he knew he was wrong, he lied, you should wear two masks, and vaccines do little to stop transmission. But he can't say that, so I can't even remember what he said that time, but it was bad I'm sure. And he's already hedging again now.

They started when they said delta was like a new virus. Another phase, whatever he said. Now he's hinting that some day a variant will come that beats the vaccine. It's already here, and they know it. Not a variant that beats our vaccine, but beats VACCINES, period.

That's going to come in time. Delta has mutated at least 25 times since it began in India. No variant has mutated that much. It's also mutating in areas we know little about, not in the spike protein but in areas controlling immune suppression. The one thing we need to beat a virus, ANY virus, is for our immune system to work. Without it working, vaccines, prior antibodies, none of that will stop it from spreading. And now Fauci is recommending monoclonal antibodies, EARLY, when you're barely sick. Why? Because that's when you carry the most virus. Attack it then while your immune system is down, and it's easier to recover (no hospital). Delta brought a massive increase in the already bad initial immune suppression seen in covid, it's worse, more extreme, and lasts longer. It also brought about a greater ability to replicate, early, uncontrolled, while your interferons are suppressed. Only after it has reached maximum infectiousness, maximum shedding, and maximum levels of transmissibility, do you start to feel sick (vaccine or not). By that time the virus has already done what it needs to do. Vaccine or not. Vaccines can't help until your interferons kick in and let your immune system know you're infected. So it's game over for vaccines stopping the spread. Not happening. Same goes for prior immunity, again vaccine antibodies or natural ones, doesn't matter if you don't know to use them for days. They still help you clear the virus far faster, and that keeps you out of the hospital and alive, so they still have a very good use. HOWEVER, that was not how the vaccines were sold. That's not how prior immunity was sold. That's why there is no herd immunity happening.

So knowing it works this way, you sit back and watch Fauci squirm, and you know he knows all this, but has to keep this information hidden, and tactfully change his misguidance. And most people, Fauci knows, don't know what's in the paragraph above, and they don't want to EXPLAIN it, they just want to govern. One thing I've learned in my job is people who know nothing recoil at being informed by an "expert", especially if that expert doesn't explain things to them, so they can learn WHY something is said, or certain advice is given, ESPECIALLY advice or information they don't like, want to hear, or agree with. People generally aren't idiots, they're capable of learning basic things. People are often ignorant though, until informed. Effective leadership and governance would favor someone like Fauci explaining the X's and O's, and then when the CDC executes the game plan everyone knows why. Fauci should have explained what is in the paragraph above, THEN go into talking about the vaccines and policy. Maybe bring some charts like Ross Perot, I dunno. That doesn't happen though. He doesn't want to inform or educate. That's bad news. No one wants to hear it anyway, so he just goes out there and makes comments, suggestions, etc. without explaining anything, so no one believes him, and then the politicians can make hay, and more people end up dead.

And you can go further. This initial immune suppression was less pronounced in children, who generally carry more interferons as they have a more sensitive immune system than adults. Older you get, less interferons, more diabetes, less interferons, elderly, less interferons, so that's the reason for the age difference in infections. Delta has expanded its reach to younger, and healthier people by increasing initial immune suppression further. But again this explains things, and no one wants to hear that. When someone says kids need masks more than ever now, children are getting sick at much higher rates, and hospitalizations in children are climbing, it's much easier to hang onto old data, and say they're in no more danger than they were. That's what people want to hear. That's not the truth though. My own school district, back in January of 2020, at the height of the pandemic (previously), had around 140 students infected with covid at their peak. And that was with masks, social distancing, etc. and a different virus. Today they have 300 students positive after a week and a half of school. School started with 111 students sick. There were 300 students initially quarantined. Now there are 1,850. And this is all known, again as EXPLAINED above. And then when it happens, and people have been given no explanation WHY, they don't believe it. Some of those 300 kids are in hospitals right now. Some of them brought the virus home, infected parents, who will end up in a hospital.

Even "experts"...experts become experts because they never stop learning. They know things change, and they change by studying changes, hence keeping their "expert" status. Anyway, even experts are changing their studies. They're now looking into, and studying other parts of the virus genome they had largely ignored previously. They know this is where change is happening, not where they initially looked, and they know the whole game plan has changed. Mutations are happening now in the ORF sections of the genome dictating viral replication and immune suppression, and not as much in the S gene, that controls transmission. Evolution in the virus, as it was exposed to our vaccines targeting the spike protein, has shifted from S gene mutations to latch on better to human cells, to increasing immune suppression as the virus has learned that is how to circumvent our vaccines and continue spreading. It's just what's happening. If there is any good news, it's that the virus is likely not any more severe for those with vaccines, or antibodies from a prior infection. It IS more severe though for those unvaccinated and especially those unvaccinated with no prior immunity from infection. And this is the reason for the big vaccine push now. They know this, but haven't explained it to you, and you don't trust them, and why should you?

And Fauci is not honest, or candid, and as such, no one believes him, and rightfully so. Same with the CDC. Same with everything. It's like your parent telling you to do something you don't want to do "because they say so" versus the parent telling you to do something you don't want to do BECAUSE if you don't do it, this will happen, or this won't happen, and then when they understand the consequences they're more likely to do it. Kids universally recoil at the first approach. So do adults.

There's no agenda in the information presented. But I think what we may end up seeing, long term, MAY be something like Brazil saw. You may notice delta spiked then dropped in India, as it has in many places. The way the virus is mutating though, means it could end up sustained at very high levels for a long time, like Brazil saw. Early indications from England and South Africa seem to show this. Cases peaked, dropped maybe 1/4, and then level off as the virus keeps going around. It is slowly rising again in South Africa and England right now. More reason for getting the vaccine.

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the virus is one of the mind as much as the body


Aug 25, 2021, 9:58 AM
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The daily news about covid has put everyone on a roller-coaster of emotions.

You ride a wave down: anxiety, fear, panic, then desperation.

Then you ride a wave up: promise, hope, cures, miracles, normalcy.

Then you ride a wave down: confusion, deceit, distrust, anger

They oversold and underdelivered on the promise of vaccines. Now people will be more easily manipulated into doing the exact thing we shouldn't be doing right now, which is to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

We really need people to get the vaccines, but we should also provide them with an extra dose of reality that they will eventually become infected and spread it to everyone in their midst, so figure out how to live with that.

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oversold underdelivered and then started the blame game


Aug 25, 2021, 10:43 AM
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to get the sheep to start blaming somebody else for a perceived danger. Strike fear then blame a group of people that is not you then attack...where have we seen that before?

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yeah, there have been more than a few


Aug 25, 2021, 12:22 PM
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you'd think enough enough people would see through all the charades by now.

I used to laugh at my parents for their absolute cynicism on every issue but now that I'm older I see it as part of the mind's primary defense against the dark arts.

Rather than absolute cynicism, I'd say healthy skepticism is the optimal state in 2021.

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The leadership has been poor from day one.


Aug 25, 2021, 2:13 PM [ in reply to He wore two masks because he knew he could spread it just as ]
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Fauci, Trump, etc. did not communicate the details of the virus well. Biden hasn't been much better.

However, it's a little unfair to criticize them for their messaging on the vaccine, when the initial research last year showed that the vaccine did prevent infection, to the tune of 95%. It has only been since multiple mutations have occurred that the vaccines' ability to prevent disease has gone down some. Still, it seems to prevent disease in at least 50%, if not 75%. That's still huge, and puts it way ahead of the yearly flu vaccine.

I still don't understand why our borders aren't more secure. It seems obvious that fewer people entering the country means less virus entering the country. It's hypocritical for our leaders to tell us to stay home and quarantine while letting all sorts of people with unknown vaccine status enter the country.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


if it was 50% the chances that 6 out of 6 in my office


Aug 25, 2021, 2:30 PM
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getting sick would have been .5^6 or 1.5%. I don't think it is 50%, but we will see. I can't figure out why this is not published since it is so easy to provide. They can tell you age, race, ethnicity but cant tell us the percent of cases that were vaccinated.

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Kinda crazy how new information can lead to different


Aug 25, 2021, 9:24 AM
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policies.

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Please forgive me, @IneligibleUser


but it wasn't new information


Aug 25, 2021, 10:07 AM
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It was known from the get-go that the actual level of immunity was never guaranteed with the vaccines against future variants.

They used the desire for freedom and normalcy as a social bribe to push the vaccine. This was unwise because most people took it to mean that they could behave as recklessly as they wanted with their newfound vaccine superpowers.

Hence, we have big problems again.

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Probably would have been better if


Aug 25, 2021, 9:58 AM
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the element of "for now" would have been included.

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Replies: 14
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General Boards - COVID
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