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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Electric car insanity
Aug 31, 2022, 5:54 AM
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The more I read about the cost of battery replacement, time and logistics for recharging, energy required for charging, etc , the more obvious it becomes that the electric car dream is nuts. I guess when the car has 100,000 miles and needs a battery the car is totaled because the cost of battery replacement will prohibit it. Of course the good news is it will be difficult to ever put 100,000 miles on one of those things because daily mileage will be extremely limited. Are we really going down this road?
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Just saw a video of an Audi owner
Aug 31, 2022, 6:47 AM
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Chraged his car 10 hrs over night and it was only at 30%. He had to go to the only Audi super charger to charge it.
Tesla's are not worth the cost. Other are not ready for primetime.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Just saw a video of an Audi owner
Aug 31, 2022, 7:08 AM
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I can see it now. Thousands of people late for work every day because “my car didn’t charge”.
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All-In [31907]
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Then you'd be surprised to know how many of our...
Aug 31, 2022, 7:51 AM
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factory workers that are late each week because they "ran out of gas"?
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Then you'd be surprised to know how many of our...
Aug 31, 2022, 7:55 AM
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Maybe but I’m 58 and I’ve never ran out of gas in my life. Well, I have on the lawn mower. Seems to always happen when I’m the longest distance from the barn.
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All-In [31907]
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More or less the same here...
Aug 31, 2022, 7:59 AM
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(I did run my '65 Mustang out of gas in high school, but the tank float was broken).
The point is that it does happen a lot to folks that may not manage their finances and life like we might.
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110%er [5694]
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Re: Then you'd be surprised to know how many of our...
Aug 31, 2022, 2:42 PM
[ in reply to Then you'd be surprised to know how many of our... ] |
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"running out of gas" is your hot take response?
You really believe running out of gas is a problem on the same order as running out of battery?
How do you live through the day?
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All-In [31907]
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It was some what of a joke...
Aug 31, 2022, 2:55 PM
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so don't get sassy with me.
But in terms of going to work, how is running out of gas a whole lot different than running out of a charge. Heck, you can charge at home while you're sleeping and you can put gas in the car at home. Right?
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All-In [31907]
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I don't like it being "forced" but it's also not really...
Aug 31, 2022, 7:49 AM
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fair to judge the long-term viability of new technology based on the current (which is really still initial) economics/costs.
I think it's fair to assume mass adoption will lead to a dramatic reduction in battery costs, improvements in charging time (look at what's already happened there) and range.
I wonder what horse owners thought of the first cars and how the initial cost/value must of looked for them.
I don't see an electric car in my immediate future, but I think there's a place for them and they will start to make more and more sense as the technology continues to improve.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: I don't like it being "forced" but it's also not really...
Aug 31, 2022, 7:54 AM
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The technology has to improve. I agree with that. We have to be confident we can make it across town on a charge. Ok that’s an exaggeration but not much
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All-In [31907]
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The range on the newer models is pretty close to...
Aug 31, 2022, 8:05 AM
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the range on a normal tank of gas.
To me, it's really the charging time vs. fill-up time that is the difference.
Strictly from an electrical engineering perspective, current technology allows for much faster charging, but it's going to require a system build-out.
My company makes some special MV cast-coil power transformers for Porche for their fast charging systems being tested now and that system will cut charge times down into the 15 minute range...which starts to be more palatable for the common driver. Right now, I think they have tech out now that can charge from 5% to 75% in about 23 min.
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Lot o points [155948]
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Kia and Hyundai today, 5 to 80% in 18 minutes.
Aug 31, 2022, 8:09 AM
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It's the infrastructure that bothers me. Just about anywhere I go, from the busiest to the most remote locations, I can find a gas station.
I've spent a little time in EV's (thanks, Turo) and I've encountered lines at the only chargers in a 15 mile radius, broken chargers with no warning when you are counting on that charger as part of your route planning, etc.
I know it will eventually happen, when the market demands it if nothing else, but there's a bit of pioneer spirit required right now to drive anywhere not urban in an EV.
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All-In [31907]
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I meant real cars :)...
Aug 31, 2022, 9:26 AM
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yeah, infrastructure is a big issue. It will come. I prefer a natural, free-market path...but it looks like we're headed to a federally subsidized path. Full disclosure, the federal subsidized path is probably going to be very good for my company and me personally, but not the way I prefer politically.
But if Uncle Sugar is dead set on spending $60BB from the infrastructure bill, I'm not going sit around and just let our competitors participate. Plus, that money is largely going to our customers...we just get the trickle down.
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Oculus Spirit [81925]
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Kinda sums it up.
Aug 31, 2022, 9:28 AM
[ in reply to Kia and Hyundai today, 5 to 80% in 18 minutes. ] |
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EVs still aren't really ready for long road trips. A single HVDC stop roadtrip tends to be fine, but extended ones just adds an extra ~5-10% of time just for charging.
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Orange Blooded [4701]
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Are we talking infrastructure to support all electric vs
Aug 31, 2022, 11:00 AM
[ in reply to Kia and Hyundai today, 5 to 80% in 18 minutes. ] |
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here? Because there's a clear winner.
I'd argue that 75 percent of Florida is rural but haven't had an issue with charging, and it even alerts you to road/traffic patterns and reroutes when there's a chance of running low.
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Lot o points [155948]
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Try heading West of Vail on I-70. Gets sparse quickly.***
Aug 31, 2022, 8:55 PM
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Orange Blooded [4701]
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There's like zero chance I'm going to drive from here to
Sep 1, 2022, 10:27 AM
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Vail... electric vehicle or otherwise.
You just gotta be 300 miles or less away from the next charger and I know for a fact they have them in Glenwood springs and Carbondale.
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Lot o points [155948]
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Obed: Infrastructure is a problem in rural areas.
Sep 3, 2022, 6:56 PM
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Kms: it’s great in Florida, ergo EV’s are great countrywide.
Obed: it was sketchy when I drove in CO
KMS: I’m not gonna drive CO, Checkmate.
Obed: uhhh, ok?
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Letterman [257]
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Yep, that’s the biggest hang up to me on EVs.
Aug 31, 2022, 11:10 AM
[ in reply to Kia and Hyundai today, 5 to 80% in 18 minutes. ] |
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Even if everyone was on board with wanting an EV, it’s naive to expect some guy in rural Kansas to get one, until we have a nationwide charging system built out to the extent gas stations are today.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Yep, that’s the biggest hang up to me on EVs.
Aug 31, 2022, 12:20 PM
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Correct. But often those who live in their cute little subdivisions with their postage stamp yards have no clue about the world beyond their little community.
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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the time to charge and the location and availability
Aug 31, 2022, 12:15 PM
[ in reply to The range on the newer models is pretty close to... ] |
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of chargers. My bro has an EV, took it to the beach, planned out his trip so he knew where his charging options were, only to find that they weren't working - i can't handle that lack of control. LOL
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Lot o points [155948]
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All-In [31907]
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They could sell used horses, just not allow new....
Aug 31, 2022, 8:07 AM
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ones to be born.
But yeah, that law in CA is nuts.
Like I said, I certainly don't favor it being forced by the government...specifically not at the federal level.
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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yeah. not a fan of the CA thing. But...CA
Aug 31, 2022, 12:12 PM
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but I'll give them this - at least they are going all in.
of course, i think the NY capping the size of sodas. so, now I just have to buy TWO 16 oz bottles? huh. wasted legislation
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All-TigerNet [11640]
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JFC. Does everything have to be an extreme position?
Aug 31, 2022, 7:55 AM
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Every car doesn't need a battery after 100,000 miles. There are tons of high mileage Tesla's out there with original batteries. Yes, it does degrade and Tesla's loss 6-10% of range over time.
You can't use a 120V outlet to charge an EV. It's too slow. You'll need to install a 240V charger at your home. Even the massive batteries in a Lightning and Hummer have no issue charging from 10% to 100% overnight on a house 240V charger. Superchargers are even faster especially if you're charging in the 20%-80% window.
Energy for charging is very dependent on where you live. In the Southeast, we have ample power and most utilities provide free of heavily discounted electricity for charging an EV overnight. It might as well be free. Out West, you're not so lucky.
Battery technology is on the steep part of it's development curve right now. Billions and billions are being poured into the technology. At least two companies have developed solid state batteries which are the holy grail of technology. Super quick charging, almost no degradation and long, long lives. They just haven't proven it on a large scale yet.
In the next decade we'll see batteries half the size, everything with 500 miles of range, and cost become more reasonable.
Remember when a big screen TV was $10,000? Yeah, those days are long gone. Because everyone invested in them and drove the costs down. Same thing going on with EVs.
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All-In [46825]
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What's real fun is telling a Tesla owner
Aug 31, 2022, 8:08 AM
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"man these new Toyotas look good"
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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I inadvertanly pissed someone off when I said "I didn't
Aug 31, 2022, 12:20 PM
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realize how much they looked alike" when referring to my KIA vs their Model Y
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Lot o points [155948]
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All-TigerNet [11640]
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My bad.
Aug 31, 2022, 10:23 AM
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I swear like a sailor. 4+ years in a garage made my vocabulary vulgar.
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All-TigerNet [13152]
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Re: Electric car insanity
Aug 31, 2022, 8:20 AM
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I'll buy one when the batteries are modular and I can pull into a battery station and change it out in 3 min. I never wait for any of my other battery operated tools to charge overnight to use again.
Until then, I will be scoffed at by EV and Hybrid drivers as I bike to work most days.
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All-TigerNet [11640]
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Likely never going to happen.
Aug 31, 2022, 8:33 AM
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all the manufacturers use different architectures for their systems. And the way they align the cells is also very different. It's pretty much proprietary based on automakers.
And lastly, they are becoming integral to the chassis. Good luck with a quick change.
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All-In [47799]
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its really interesting seeing all the MAGAt types
Aug 31, 2022, 9:11 AM
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bashing electric vehicles like EVs are against their religion.
Personally, I dont want government mandating EVs (as we're seeing in California) but the market should dictate and I think EVs will do just fine.
I have a BMW X5 45e (plug in hybrid) and love it. I drive it all electric around town but have taken trips on all gas to South Florida.
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Lot o points [155948]
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I don't get what you derive from the "MAGAT" stuff
Aug 31, 2022, 9:17 AM
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especially since most of the bemoaning about the topic is in regards to the govt mandates, which you say you don't want either, as opposed to any real objections with the vehicles themselves.
Seems any real free market proponent would want the inevitable market conversion to happen when the market demanded it, whether MAGA, Neocon, RINO, or Libertarian.
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All-In [47799]
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what you're missing is that the MAGAts don't want
Aug 31, 2022, 9:20 AM
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free markets....or regulated markets. They want whatever Trump wants. if Elon is funding Trump and Trump is tweeting Telsa and Elon, they're all for EVs. If Elon bashes Trump, they're all of a sudden anti-EV.
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110%er [5694]
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Re: what you're missing is that the MAGAts don't want
Aug 31, 2022, 2:47 PM
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you are a dumb ukck. Really, how do you keep a job? Or are you living off the gubment now?
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All-In [31907]
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meh...I'm not so sure about that...
Aug 31, 2022, 9:29 AM
[ in reply to I don't get what you derive from the "MAGAT" stuff ] |
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I see/hear a lot of people just making fun of electric cars that seem to be political in nature.
Surely you can't say all Trump supporters hate electric cars for political reasons, but there are enough that seemingly do to make it a valid point, IMO.
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Lot o points [155948]
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Brodozer drivers mock anything that’s not a Brodozer.
Aug 31, 2022, 9:31 AM
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They’re a minority you can’t do much about.
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All-In [31907]
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I know I'm influenced by my FB feed...
Aug 31, 2022, 9:33 AM
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which is surely not scientific, but there are a LOT of people in my circle that just don't like EV's because they're being "pushed by democrats".
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Lot o points [155948]
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There’s a distinction that matters in the phrase “pushed by
Aug 31, 2022, 10:24 AM
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Democrats”. It’s an accurate phrase, so is it the forced loss of choice they don’t like most or who is doing it?
I’d contend that they’d be similarly as against a red hat R proposing to drastically narrow their vehicle choices.
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All-In [31907]
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I would HOPE...
Aug 31, 2022, 10:57 AM
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that "they" would be "similarly as against a red hat R proposing to drastically narrow their vehicle choices". But man, so many just seem to me to parrot whatever they're told that I'm not really sure that would be the case.
I know it's a more complex issue, but take tariffs as an example. Anecdotally, I know so many people that, had anyone else imposed tariffs on imports, would have shouted in opposition. But since Trump did it...they played right along like it was a great idea and not defend it passionately.
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All-In [31907]
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*now defend it****
Aug 31, 2022, 10:57 AM
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Oculus Spirit [81925]
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This post is a pretty good example of not understanding a
Aug 31, 2022, 9:25 AM
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thing about EVs.
Let me start with this, batteries are warrantied to 200k miles.
Battery replacement is ~$8k-15k depending on type of EV, and only getting cheaper.
I have 46k miles in a 16 months of ownership.
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All-In [40936]
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I ain't gettin rid of my Hemi***
Aug 31, 2022, 9:28 AM
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All-In [26968]
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Just don't buy one. I don't plan to
Aug 31, 2022, 9:54 AM
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unless things change that make them a better option for me.
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Orange Blooded [4701]
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The only people I hear complaining about electric vehicles
Aug 31, 2022, 10:56 AM
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are the people who do not own them.
Husband of bought a Tesla Y performance model over the summer. I was indifferent at first, but I will probably be buying myself one when my current lease is up on my premium gas guzzler.
My electric bill has gone up $100 compared to same month last summer, but with the increase in energy costs I'd assume the real cost of charging it to be closer to $75/month.
They make it really easy to plan your route and find chargers.
So at this juncture it's a fun car to own, but I don't think the infrastructure is there for other electric models yet.
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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Funny. I never really thought about gettign one until May or
Aug 31, 2022, 12:07 PM
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June of this year. And after I asked myself all of the 'what ifs?" I decided that getting an EV was a good choice for me (vs investing in another ICE of similar value). I was initially looking for a PHEV, but decided that an EV with a 280+ range would suit me just fine.
Everyone is different and has different needs in life. I drive on average 30 miles a day. When I commute to work, it's 80, but we have chargers at work. I made it to Asheville and around on a single charge. So, that's not an issue. Road trips are a different story, but I wouldn't call them typical. I don't know if I'll ever take it on a long road trip (especially not one where I'm pressed for time), but there are ways to plan trip around areas with high numbers of chargers.
As for the life of the battery? This arbitrary 100,000 miles thing cracks me up. it's like one ev owner early on in the process had one die at 100K and everyone assumes that we won't get better at making them.
If you don't want one, don't get one. but I don't miss paying for gas. and my power bill has only incrementally increased because I charge at work. even if I didn't, overnight off peak charging is cheaper than gas (3-4X compared to my last car that got 25MPG).
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Lot o points [155948]
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What did you end up getting?
Aug 31, 2022, 8:58 PM
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3timeTiger
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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Kia ev6
Sep 3, 2022, 4:11 PM
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so far, so good
I got the wind edition with the tech package. was able to hold out enough at the dealership to get them to come down off of their markup, which was nice. I had toi pay for their dumb addons though.
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Lot o points [155948]
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Re: Kia ev6
Sep 3, 2022, 6:51 PM
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“Hey Obed thanks for the Rec”
You’re welcome 3Time, I hope you enjoy it. It’s a sweet ride.
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110%er [5694]
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Re: Electric car insanity
Aug 31, 2022, 3:13 PM
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What CAlex doesn't understand is that people who can think objectively, sans emotion and woke influence, know that EVs are not even close to being what most people (esp lefties) think they are.
So, we poke fun at the people whose insecurity drives them to buy EVs to try and increase their social acceptance. It's just a form of virtue signaling for many. Pathetic, but it's the same reason libs like to create all the oppressed classes and feign support for them. Jussie Smollett times a million.
For others, they truly think they are helping climate change. But what they are doing is ensuring more of our economy depends on China, who owns the majority of battery raw materials. The USA could be 90% EVs and there will be zero pull back of the climate change locomotive - India, China, and other developing nations are driving that train.
If you want to do something meaningful, advocate for 100% clean nuclear power that the planet should have been using exclusively for the last 50 years.
Instead of all the virtue signaling about EVs, it would be refreshing to hear someone say they bought an EV because it goes 0-60 in three seconds, jacking your fat a$$ back in the seat, and can burn a C8 vette from a stoplight.
There's one raw element an EV won't replace - the sound of an IC engine, especially a Porsche GT3 at 9000 rpm or a vintage V10 or V12 F1 engine. Check it out - GT3 doing launch control and the double-cluck shifting. Wow - nothing compares!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwtu6lSpX6I
The elegance of all this mechanical complexity wrapped up into a very special package. As an engineer I love it.
BTW: I've never seen a count, but the EV drive train must have a small fraction of the number of moving parts - that's a plus.
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110%er [5694]
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cluck = clutch
Aug 31, 2022, 3:14 PM
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All-TigerNet [10900]
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They are a complete scam.***
Sep 3, 2022, 4:34 PM
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CU Medallion [60043]
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Nope. I will always have a stick shift
Sep 3, 2022, 5:09 PM
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Wrangler in the garage. Forever. #### the rest of them.
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Lot o points [155948]
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How many rubber ducks you have on the dash?***
Sep 3, 2022, 6:54 PM
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Replies: 53
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50
