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110%er [5677]
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Just Saying
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Feb 6, 2024, 12:00 PM
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IF we make a coaching change in basketball here is what we have to offer a new coach.
1. We have never won the ACC
2. We have a less than stellular NCAA tourney history
3. What coach would jump at the chance to come here
4. How many top recruits would choose us
Based on the above a new coach would have to be given a long leash. Immediate results could be worse than what we have now.
My opinion is this is what Neff is struggling with concerning making a change.
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110%er [8003]
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Re: Just Saying
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Feb 6, 2024, 12:35 PM
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All evidence points to your being correct. How do we hold on to all the good things CBB has accomplished then add a trip to the dance every 3-4 years? All without losing the excellent incoming class and without breaking the bank? We may lose the current ESPN deal in 2027 which could mean less revenue. Legal fees to get out of the conference or join a new conference may be significant. Direct payments to athletes look to be an actual thing while we will also need our fans to also donate to the NIL funds without lowering their Iptay contribution.
lots to consider
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110%er [6861]
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Very little to consider actually. Whats the downside in trying someone new?
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Feb 6, 2024, 12:38 PM
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We might miss the NCAA tournament? Oh, wait......
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110%er [8003]
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Re: Very little to consider actually. Whats the downside in trying someone new?
Feb 6, 2024, 12:52 PM
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We might miss the NCAA tournament? Oh, wait......
there are actually other aspects of a program used to measure success.
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110%er [6861]
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Ok, how about these downsides
Feb 6, 2024, 2:12 PM
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Might not win the ACC regular season? Oh wait.....
Might not win the ACC tournament? Oh wait....
Might get clapped out in the first round of the NIT by Moorehead State? Oh wait....
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Orange Blooded [2099]
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Re: Just Saying
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Feb 6, 2024, 12:37 PM
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Uhh, this has been the case our whole history. And we've had a coach every time one has left/been fired. There are plenty coaches out there who see Clemson as a "dream" job - coach in the ACC, less expectations than other ACC schools, chance to do something no one in school history has done, etc. etc.
It's the same reason people go to coach football at South Carolina or Vanderbilt or Kansas. They want a shot at the highest level.
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110%er [7979]
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So coming to us as a basketball coach is the same as going to
Feb 6, 2024, 12:40 PM
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Cootlumbia to coach football? Ouch!
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All-In [44055]
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The two situations are very similar in terms of program history.
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Feb 6, 2024, 12:44 PM
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The difference is that South Carolina is a football school with rabid fan support and significant financial support for the program. Clemson basketball is the redheaded stepchild by comparison.
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Hall of Famer [22741]
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Re: The two situations are very similar in terms of program history.
Feb 6, 2024, 2:11 PM
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I said that recently. SC has a lot of delusional football fans. We only have a few delusional basketball fans.
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Legend [16921]
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Orange Blooded [2099]
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Re: So coming to us as a basketball coach is the same as going to
Feb 6, 2024, 2:07 PM
[ in reply to So coming to us as a basketball coach is the same as going to ] |
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In a lot of ways, yes. We haven't won anything in hoops, have little history to lean on, there's plenty other big fish in the conference so we get the "hand-me-downs" when it comes to recruits. It's unfortunate, but it's reality.
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110%er [8003]
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Re: Just Saying
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Feb 6, 2024, 12:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: Just Saying ] |
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Uhh, this has been the case our whole history. And we've had a coach every time one has left/been fired. There are plenty coaches out there who see Clemson as a "dream" job - coach in the ACC, less expectations than other ACC schools, chance to do something no one in school history has done, etc. etc.
It's the same reason people go to coach football at South Carolina or Vanderbilt or Kansas. They want a shot at the highest level.
How has cycling through coaches worked out at SCAR, Vandy or Kansas?
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Just Saying
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Feb 6, 2024, 2:25 PM
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How did it work for Alabama - at football and basketball. Stop with your nonsense.
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Legend [16158]
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No, nonsense is comparing us to Alabama and pining for Greg Freaking Marshall***
Feb 6, 2024, 2:28 PM
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Legend [16921]
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Re: No, nonsense is comparing us to Alabama and pining for Greg Freaking Marshall***
Feb 7, 2024, 5:09 AM
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How is comparing us to Alabama basketball, when one of the most frequent arguments against us even trying to be good at basketball is that football schools can’t do it, “nonsense”. They also cycled through 4 coaches - all unsuccessful - in 10 years in football before Saban. Which makes my comment completely responsive to the post I was replying too. Unlike your stammering attempt to make a personal attack that neglects any attempt at staying in context. I will concede that for someone with a loser’s mentality Gregg Marshall probably does seem like “nonsense”.
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CU Medallion [65540]
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All those things will unfortunately continue to be true if we keep the coach we
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Feb 6, 2024, 12:44 PM
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currently have.
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Orange Blooded [2848]
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What is "stellular"? Is that a stellar cell phone company, and if so, who is it?
Feb 6, 2024, 1:42 PM
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wink, wink.
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110%er [5677]
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Re: What is "stellular"? Is that a stellar cell phone company, and if so, who is it?
Feb 6, 2024, 3:46 PM
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Sorry I left the u out. BTW it is a small star.
Change that to adding the l. Did you win the 2000 spelling bee? thank you for pointing out my error.
Message was edited by: Purple Gunstock 15®
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110%er [5961]
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A new coach has opportunity to do many 1st of its kind with Clemson basketball
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Feb 6, 2024, 1:48 PM
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starting with an ACC tourney title and following up with an NCAA title...reaching I know but with a new coach comes new/restored energy for attaining new heights of success. What is the alternative, more of the same?? Brownell may be a nice guy and run a good/clean program but minimal success has to mean something, might be time for some change around those hills and start with something fresh.
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Legend [17634]
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What do we (Clemson) have to offer?
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Feb 6, 2024, 1:55 PM
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IF we make a coaching change in basketball here is what we have to offer a new coach.
1. We have never won the ACC
2. We have a less than stellular NCAA tourney history
3. What coach would jump at the chance to come here
4. How many top recruits would choose us
Based on the above a new coach would have to be given a long leash. Immediate results could be worse than what we have now.
My opinion is this is what Neff is struggling with concerning making a change.
Just the best university, people (alum, students, fans, boosters), location, and climate in the country. There has been something "in those hills" for all our lifetimes. Tired of apologizing for Clemson Basketball. The university, the people, the location and the climate are just the same for basketball as for football. Frank Howard was a legend, but Clemson Football was never great under Howard. Ford changed the road map. Dabo elevated the team and the brand. The same can be done for Clemson Basketball but only with the right coach. The AD's job is to hire the right coach.
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Just Saying
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Feb 6, 2024, 2:24 PM
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You list didn’t really stay on topic.
Clemson’s profile as a school and athletic department are very, very different than the last time we hired a basketball coach. Why would any coach worth their salt care about any of that? There are five guys on the floor. Do you know how to coach them? Is Clemson a place you can see yourself making a home? These are the questions. Do A and Clemson can do whatever necessary to make sure B remains true. Brad might check box B but he long ago failed box A. All the fear based reservation about a coaching change is ridiculous and most of you at least pretend to be man enough that you should be embarrassed by it.
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Orange Blooded [4095]
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Re: Just Saying
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Feb 6, 2024, 3:00 PM
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Any young coach that wants to make a splash before moving on to a better job.
Bring in Rick Barnes part 2 and just make a better hire when he leaves...
Any older coach from a lesser conference who want to make big bucks and compete in the ACC.
Clemson isn't a top job but it is a decent job.
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All-Conference [407]
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Stepping stone
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Feb 6, 2024, 3:41 PM
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I agree. Our basketball coaching position is probably viewed as a "stepping-stone" to a better job type position by the outside. If Brownell had proven to be a better coach - he'd have been on to greener pastures years ago.
I'd rather roll the dice with a young and hungry coach on the way up knowing he'd either fail and we'd move on or he'd move on to a better job in 4-5 seasons. To me, that possibility of the coach moving on due to success at Clemson outweighs the near certainty of what we currently have. Most of us have seen this movie too many times.
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