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Replies: 52
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All-TigerNet [13723]
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What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell?
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Feb 21, 2023, 12:21 PM
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I'm asking more from the perspective of not what you think he should do but what you think he will do. I think if we close out 2-2, win 1 ACC tourney game, and finish 22-10 without considering any post-season results (NIT?), Neff might hang on another year.
He might feel like we have a strong nucleus returning next year, and keeping Brad around one more year with the clear ultimatum that it is Big Dance or Bust, might just be the way he goes.
I'd say right now it is a coin flip on what he does unless we go 0-4 or 1-3 and out in round 1 of the ACC Tourney.
Thoughts?
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Oculus Spirit [91480]
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50-50...
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Feb 21, 2023, 12:24 PM
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but remember with Streeter it was THE Head Coach that made the decision to part company and tgen it let Neff know and the two obviously agree.
Not the same with BB; it's all on Neff.
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Oculus Spirit [91480]
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Geez..the typing with big fingers & correcto correcting me!
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Feb 21, 2023, 12:27 PM
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..and then he (Dabo) let Neff know...and both obviously AGREED.
That's better! LOL
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All-In [40293]
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Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell?
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Feb 21, 2023, 12:29 PM
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Unfortunately slim to none. That means his contract will get extended, and next season we'll be back to a .500 - .600 team again.
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All-TigerNet [13723]
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Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell?
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Feb 21, 2023, 12:35 PM
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A lot might also ride on what candidates become available and the type of coach we could attract to replace him. If the options aren't very good he may want to wait another year. It will be an interesting test of how Neff leads. I don't see Neff pulling the trigger unless he has a solid lead on who might replace him.
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110%er [6518]
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Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell?
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Feb 21, 2023, 12:43 PM
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At this point, hire the Daniel HS basketball coach. Couldn’t be any worse.
Just do something to show that Clemson Basketball needs new life.
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Orange Blooded [4610]
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Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell?
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Feb 21, 2023, 3:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell? ] |
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There's still a good chance to be in that range by the end of this season, too.
If we lose the last 4 regular season ACC games, we'll be 11-9 in the ACC, one game above .500 at .550.
That would put the overall record at 19-12, 0.613, which is better than .600. But if we than also lose the first ACCT game, too, would be 19-13 or .575.
At this point, though, even if we win all 4 remaining games (23-12 and 15-5 ACC), we still need to run the table at the ACCT to get the NCAAT bid. Losing in the championship game we could be 25-13 (.658) and still miss the NCAAT.
That the multiple inexcusable loses would lock us out of the NCAAT with CBBs "most historic" team would be the reason to part ways even after a "historic" season.
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Orange Blooded [2727]
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Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell?
Feb 21, 2023, 8:02 PM
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There's still a good chance to be in that range by the end of this season, too.
If we lose the last 4 regular season ACC games, we'll be 11-9 in the ACC, one game above .500 at .550.
That would put the overall record at 19-12, 0.613, which is better than .600. But if we than also lose the first ACCT game, too, would be 19-13 or .575.
At this point, though, even if we win all 4 remaining games (23-12 and 15-5 ACC), we still need to run the table at the ACCT to get the NCAAT bid. Losing in the championship game we could be 25-13 (.658) and still miss the NCAAT.
That the multiple inexcusable loses would lock us out of the NCAAT with CBBs "most historic" team would be the reason to part ways even after a "historic" season.
If we won out the rest of our games, we would not need to win the ACCT to make the big dance -- 24 wins should be our magic number this year IMO.
23 regular season wins means we probably locked a 4 seed or better and get a double-bye. 1 win in the ACCT should be enough...of course, I'd definitely take winning the ACCT to erase all doubt 
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All-In [27444]
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Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell?
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Feb 21, 2023, 12:31 PM
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Getting better every game
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All-TigerNet [13723]
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Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell?
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Feb 21, 2023, 12:43 PM
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My apologies, I meant for this to post on the basketball board.
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110%er [8169]
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Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell?
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Feb 21, 2023, 12:45 PM
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If we are coming off a 22-10 season with much of the team returning and just starting to see the investment with better assistants paying off I dont see him pulling the trigger. Maybe he has a replacement picked out and is ready to pull the trigger but I doubt it especially if the replacement requires additional funding.
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CU Guru [1487]
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You poor guy.
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Feb 21, 2023, 12:53 PM
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If we don't make the tournament again, and finish in the 70's or worse again, then it's over and rightfully so.
Are.you even reading these replies? The facts I'm listing destroy the things you're saying.
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All-TigerNet [13723]
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Re: You poor guy.
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Feb 21, 2023, 12:56 PM
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It doesn't matter what you or I think. It only matters whether or not Neff is ready to do it and it might not be as cut and dry for him as it is for you.
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All-TigerNet [13723]
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Re: You poor guy.
Feb 21, 2023, 1:00 PM
[ in reply to You poor guy. ] |
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And if you really read the question you would see that I said it was not about what you think he should do, it was a question of what you think he will do.
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Freshman [-100]
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Anything less than replacing CBB
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Feb 21, 2023, 2:13 PM
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Is a dereliction of duty, plain & simple.
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110%er [6866]
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If BB doesnt make the dance, its over.
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Feb 21, 2023, 1:04 PM
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And it should be. Worst ACC maybe ever and we STILL cant make the tournament? After 13 years? There is no justification in continuing down this path and I think Neff knows it.
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All-TigerNet [13723]
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Re: If BB doesnt make the dance, its over.
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Feb 21, 2023, 1:07 PM
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We've said this in other years too and he has survived with fewer wins. This is why I don't completely trust what appears to be obvious.
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110%er [6866]
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Yes but not really with Neff***
Feb 21, 2023, 1:16 PM
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All-TigerNet [13723]
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Re: Yes but not really with Neff***
Feb 21, 2023, 1:22 PM
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Which is why I posed the question about what people thought Neff would do.
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Team Captain [459]
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Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell?
Feb 21, 2023, 1:14 PM
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Going to fire a coach who goes 22-10? Depends on how much the past counts with the AD. If he sees progress over last year then most likely will be back
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110%er [6866]
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22-10 is an utterly meaningless stat
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Feb 21, 2023, 1:18 PM
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So yes, you absolutely fire a coach who "went 22-10" if we miss the tournament. Again.
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Orange Blooded [2871]
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22-10 Is Not A Meaningless Stat
Feb 21, 2023, 1:55 PM
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At Clemson, 20-win seasons are like gold. 12 winning seasons in 13 years. No one who has ever dove on the Clemson basketball coaching hand grenade has come close to that record.
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CU Guru [1487]
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That's it Cobb. Argue your dismantled points with several handles.
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Feb 21, 2023, 2:00 PM
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All of them are equally as irrelevant.
Two top-40 finishes and an average finish of 76th in 12 years. And that 76th may very well go down after this season.
These facts destroy your feelings.
Please stick with one handle. Or did you screw up and reply in your comments with the wrong handle again?
Those that know you say its common knowledge your not the sharpest knife in the drawer. What would you say to that, JstoneOxford?
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Legend [17000]
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Re: 22-10 Is Not A Meaningless Stat
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Feb 21, 2023, 2:02 PM
[ in reply to 22-10 Is Not A Meaningless Stat ] |
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No one else has had the privilege of coaching in a 15 team, garbage conference where we don’t play every Tobacco Road team twice a year. How about we find out how anyone else might do. SOS records suggest virtually every coach but Larry Shyatt would have done better.
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CU Guru [1487]
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The Brad Bros are all the same.
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Feb 21, 2023, 2:10 PM
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1. They spout these meaningless stats without understanding context.
2. Ignore the more significant counterpoints.
3. Wait a day or two.
4. Cite the same dismantled stats again.
5. Rinse and repeat.
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Orange Blooded [4610]
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Re: 22-10 Is Not A Meaningless Stat
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Feb 21, 2023, 3:11 PM
[ in reply to 22-10 Is Not A Meaningless Stat ] |
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He's had seven 0.500 or worse seasons in the ACC. Five losing seasons in the ACC. An overall losing record in ACC play.
He had a 25-win, 11-7 ACC (3rd place ACC) year in which he made the Sweet 16. That was followed by a 20-win, 9-9 (8th place ACC) season with an NIT invite.
That was followed by two consecutive 16-win seasons and a 17-win season, with two losing ACC seasons, no postseason two of 3 years and a first-round NCAA loss (COVID-shortened season). Came in 9th, 5th, 10th respectively over those 3 seasons in the ACC.
He DID break the 0-59 streak in there, though.
This year, an historic year for all the positives, a number of the losses simply cannot be handwaved away.
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Legend [16071]
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This isn't the 1970s. 80's, 90's anymore...
Feb 22, 2023, 7:28 AM
[ in reply to 22-10 Is Not A Meaningless Stat ] |
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The ACC SUCKS in basketball. 22 wins especially with our OOC schedule is even more embarrassing. Their are schools with 5k that play a better schedule than us.
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Legend [17000]
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Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell?
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Feb 21, 2023, 1:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell? ] |
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Why does the w-l record suddenly matter, if that w/l record keeps you out of the tourney. It’s basketball. SOS matters and ours is terrible. The goal is the NCAA tourney. We’re not making it without winning the ACC tourney. Brad will only have 3 years left on his contract. Typically this is considered disadvantageous for recruiting. So you’ve reached an inflection point - extend him or release him. How can you possibility justify yet another extension? The last extension DRad gave actually reduced the buyouts to make this situation more tenable. Why squander it?
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CU Guru [1487]
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Common sense for those with IQs
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Feb 21, 2023, 2:06 PM
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bigger than their beltsize.
I hope that wasn't being too mean to Cobb?
But, Brad's a good guy.
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Legend [16071]
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Those numbers aren't important when you have the #340 SOS...
Feb 22, 2023, 7:23 AM
[ in reply to Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell? ] |
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in the OOC. Do we make the Tourney or not? Make it and he deserves 1 year. Don't make it and you're out. We just lost to the 3rd quad 4 team this year. 22-10 means NOTHING with anyone educated about basketball.
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CU Guru [1562]
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If Brad does get fired
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Feb 21, 2023, 1:32 PM
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Absolutely NO ONE in college basketball can say that Clemson didn't give him a fair shot. 13 years is more than enough time to establish a successful program. I think the patience that Clemson has had with Brownell bodes well for getting a top notch coach to come in and take over the reins.
Now is the time for our program to make a move in the ACC. Roy is gone, Coach K is gone and the ACC is wide open for some shuffling around at the top.
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Legend [16071]
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EXACTLY! Now I the time.***
Feb 22, 2023, 7:25 AM
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110%er [6153]
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I think at this point he has to win the ACC Tourney.
Feb 21, 2023, 2:00 PM
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The odds of making the NCAAs as an ar-larger are pretty slim right now.
But, who knows, we could have a string of games like the FSU blowout to end the season and totally catch fire.
A game like we had against FSU beats every team on our schedule and most of the NCAA field.
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Orange Blooded [4610]
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Re: I think at this point he has to win the ACC Tourney.
Feb 21, 2023, 3:12 PM
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And a game like Louisville, Loyola-Chicago, BC, or SCAR will keep us out! And lose to almost every team in the NCAA field (which we would not be in).
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110%er [6153]
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We have been consistently inconsistent for sure !
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Feb 21, 2023, 6:24 PM
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At our worst we can’t beat anyone, but at our best there is not a team in America we couldn’t beat.
Our problem is that sustaining anything close to our best from game to game has been impossible.
Sadly, I don’t see us suddenly catching on fire down the stretch.
I project a 2-2 regular season finish and one win in the ACC Tourney.
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110%er [7169]
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Neff will most likely let Brownell finish out his contract.
Feb 21, 2023, 2:00 PM
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Why not at this point?
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CU Guru [1487]
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Can't recruit with an apparent "lame duck".
Feb 21, 2023, 2:18 PM
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Show REAL progress (i.e. NCAAT) or move on. That's the way this will shake out.
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CU Guru [1902]
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Re: Neff will most likely let Brownell finish out his contract.
Feb 22, 2023, 12:30 PM
[ in reply to Neff will most likely let Brownell finish out his contract. ] |
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Unfortunately, you may be right. 70-30 that Brownell is let go. However, there is a small voice in the back of my head that says the Board doesn't want to spend the money and will claim an overall winning and ACC record justifies giving Brownell another year. When I hear this voice in my sleep, I wake up screaming in a cold sweat.
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CU Guru [1487]
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It's not possible to know right now.
Feb 21, 2023, 2:01 PM
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If we go on a miracle finish, make the NCAAT and actually win one or more, then we have to keep him no?
But then again, miracles are rare.
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Orange Blooded [2347]
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Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell?
Feb 21, 2023, 2:43 PM
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Didn’t Neff basically Dance or Bust?
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Orange Blooded [2347]
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Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell?
Feb 21, 2023, 2:44 PM
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Say dance or bust?
I need to complete my sentences.
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Orange Blooded [3681]
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Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell?
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Feb 21, 2023, 2:54 PM
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Neff will consider the consensus on TNET .. the coaches read it, along with our AD.
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All-TigerNet [13723]
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Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell?
Feb 21, 2023, 2:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell? ] |
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Nebulously implied but never explicitly stated so it is hard to say for sure where his line in the sand really is, hence why I was curious about what others thought he might actually do.
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Orange Blooded [2973]
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Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell?
Feb 21, 2023, 3:01 PM
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A 22-10 conference finish I think gives Brownell another year with this nucleus of players. That’s a strong enough finish to possibly get a couple quality TP adds (depending on how many schollys open up) that should be easier to catch than last spring. That kind of returning roster would have no business losing any Q4 games which is the anchor around his neck right now.
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Orange Blooded [4610]
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Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell?
Feb 21, 2023, 3:14 PM
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"A 22-10 conference finish" would be a good trick with a 20-game conference schedule.
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Orange Blooded [4610]
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Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell?
Feb 21, 2023, 3:16 PM
[ in reply to Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell? ] |
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That nucleus loses Hunter Tyson, Chase Hunter, and Brevin Galloway. P.J. Hall probably does not declare for the draft, but he could.
22-10 overall would mean a 14-6 ACC result. Which would be "historic", like the loss to Louisville.
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Legend [16423]
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Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell?
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Feb 21, 2023, 3:06 PM
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I believe a lot depends on Neff's view of the options at hand this year were we to move on. If he feels like he has someone available that can help him fulfill his vision of taking our program to the next level, then it's a strong chance for change (90/10) if we fail to make the NCAA. If he is not as confident in this year's pool of candidates, and we don't tank completely and somehow miss the NIT even, then reverse that. IMO he'd rather have another rinse and repeat cycle than have to bring in someone more out of necessity than choice.
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All-TigerNet [13723]
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Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell?
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Feb 21, 2023, 3:16 PM
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I tend to agree with you. We need to get the next decision right and not just find a warm body to fill the slot simply because everyone thinks the time is now. I'd rather live with what we have a little longer and get someone who can recruit and develop players, surround himself with a good staff, and make good in-game adjustments. If Neff could find another "Bakich of basketball," it would be well worth the wait.
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Trainer [26]
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Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell?
Feb 21, 2023, 3:11 PM
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Sources tell me Neff is waiting for poll results from TNet before finalizing a decision.
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Orange Blooded [2727]
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Really Tough Call
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Feb 21, 2023, 3:19 PM
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It's easy to jump on the hate train as of late and point out things like BBs history at Clemson and lack of success outside of a season here or there.
However, when I take a moment to look at the overview, it's kind of hard to just say it's time to tear down and start new.
- Technically the most accomplished Clemson Men's Basketball coach to stick with the school.
- Technically exceeds expectations almost every year based on media expectations.
- Runs a clean program and hardly ever see an issue with team discipline outside of basketball.
As for the naysayers, they have valid points too.
- 13 years, 4 tournament appearances.
- Teams tend to not do well when expectations are up like dropping games we shouldn't (USC, Loyola Chicago, BC, UL) -- heck, win 2-3 of those games and we are at 21-22 wins only needing to win 2-3 more to all but guarantee a spot in the dance.
- Second half shooting droughts that drive fans crazy and lack of team discipline to stick to the ###### when struggling.
- Overall, just somehow beating the mark but never enough on a consistent basis to keep the fan base from being divided.
What's going to happen?
If Clemson loses out, idk how you keep Brownell around so that'd be an easier dismissal to save face.
If Clemson finishes with 22 wins (so winning half of the remaining games and 1 conference game), it'll probably be enough for the NIT and the waters get really murky...all I gotta say is if there isnt a better coach available that wants the job, Brownell most likely gets another year. They ain't gonna fire Brownell and not already have someone in place that is gonna make a splash.
If Clemson somehow finishes with a top-4 seed, or they have a magical run in the ACC tourney and make the big dance, idk how you fire Brownell.
Despite the conference being considered down, it'd historically be a great basketball year for Clemson -- heck, technically it's already a historically good year for Clemson basketball despite the change in times, basketball schedule, etc.
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Orange Blooded [2226]
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none, he's having his best yr.missing the torney, won't
Feb 21, 2023, 7:25 PM
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matter
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Orange Blooded [4754]
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Re: What are the odds Neff moves on from Brownell?
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Feb 22, 2023, 7:14 AM
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Moved on from Monte Lee who had much more success than CBB. It's LONG overdue for a change and GNeff knows it.
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Legend [16071]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 24600
Joined: 5/14/02
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NCAAs or he is gone. If Neff isn't in line with that....
1
Feb 22, 2023, 7:18 AM
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Then we have a LOT of issues with our AD.
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Replies: 52
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