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CU Medallion [60043]
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Value of Life
Aug 17, 2021, 10:09 AM
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For me personally, what is the most disconcerting thing about all of our campaigns in the Middle East, its the lack of "Value of Life" as I would call it by the Taliban and a lot of Muslim community, even outside of the extremist.
You see video and imagery constantly from the Middle East of floggings, beheadings, rapes, acid burnings...basically anything that is horrible to do to another person. They do this with zero remorse and believe their God is telling them to do this to others.
I see it here in America too. Lots of inner city neighborhoods across this Country do not value life at all, which scares me. The bullied kids that decide to shoot up schools or shopping malls, they have been taught or told that life doesn't matter. Chinese interment camps...the list goes on and on, but I feel like we keep trying to turn the Middle East into a respectable part of the world, but until they fundamentally change and decide they care and value life, its not going to happen at all.
This is what scares me most, we seem as a whole world at times to not Value Life at all. We have to get back to caring for one another and valuing each others' lives.
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All-In [34600]
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Fiery But Mostly Peaceful***
Aug 17, 2021, 10:13 AM
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: Value of Life
Aug 17, 2021, 10:22 AM
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And how do you feel about "value of life" when it comes to those brown Christians at our southern border who don't speak English, but need money to feed their families and access to decent medical care?
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CU Medallion [60043]
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I think they can go through the process of getting
Aug 17, 2021, 10:28 AM
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a visa and becoming a citizen, like millions of others have done in the past. I think the Mexican Government needs to get out of the cartel business. I think we should do more to aid those in Central America/Mexico as well instead of Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan....the list goes on and on.
But your "gotcha" schtick isn't working, so move on.
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: I think they can go through the process of getting
Aug 17, 2021, 10:39 AM
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I got you dead to rights. Pretending to GAF about value of life on one hand, and then "build a wall and fend for yourselves" on the other. Too funny.
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: I think they can go through the process of getting
Aug 17, 2021, 10:39 AM
[ in reply to I think they can go through the process of getting ] |
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I got you dead to rights. Pretending to GAF about value of life on one hand, and then "build a wall and fend for yourselves" on the other. Too funny.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Do you believe in manmade climate change?!?
Aug 17, 2021, 10:42 AM
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Why haven't you killed yourself to help stop it?!? GoT yUo DeAd To RiGhTs!!!!!!
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: Do you believe in manmade climate change?!?
Aug 17, 2021, 10:45 AM
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The incoherence of your post shows you got NADA, but we already knew that. LOL.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Re: Do you believe in manmade climate change?!?
Aug 17, 2021, 10:52 AM
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All-TigerNet [12592]
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Re: I think they can go through the process of getting
Aug 17, 2021, 1:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: I think they can go through the process of getting ] |
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So do you propose to make it official and completely open the border and allow any human being that can get to America to come on in?
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: I think they can go through the process of getting
Aug 17, 2021, 1:35 PM
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Ronald Reagan wanted to open the border both ways. I'm not of that opinion, but I'm also not pretending on one hand to "value life" and then "tough chit" on the other.
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All-TigerNet [12592]
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Re: I think they can go through the process of getting
Aug 17, 2021, 3:44 PM
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https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128303672
Reagan was not in favor of open borders as espoused by the progressives, but certainly understood that we need workers and that there should be an orderly process to bring them in and legitimize those who came here illegally and have been good citizens for years.
We obviously can't nor should we in my opinion deport millions of law abiding people who have been here for many years, but in no way would he have been ok with what's going on at the southern border.
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: I think they can go through the process of getting
Aug 17, 2021, 5:37 PM
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Straight from the horses mouth. Can you imagine if this was Biden and Kamela having this exact same discussion. You guys would be going apechit. LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsmgPp_nlok
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All-TigerNet [12592]
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Re: I think they can go through the process of getting
Aug 17, 2021, 10:02 PM
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No that's incorrect re: apechit. We are indeed educating illegal children and the children of illegal immigrants today in our public schools. I'm ok with that. I'm certainly ok with providing work visas and we do need a better way of legitimizing workers from Mexico and elsewhere. Reagan was talking about a process to allow for this.
They both said we need to address the problem. Reagan indeed signed a bill in 1986 providing for amnesty for those who entered the US before 1982.It also initially was pitched as a bill that would tighten security at the Mexican border and would harshly punish those who hired undocumented workers going forward.
Unfortunately, the provisions to punish employers for continuing to hire undocumented workers was stripped out of the bill. Based on that, I think Reagan should not have signed the bill.
Employers continue to hire undocumented workers and sometimes exploit them.
This isn't a binary choice between open borders and secure borders. There should be a process in place to allow the workers that we need, to do the jobs that often are not willing to be done by Americans, through work visas. I don't believe we should try to deport law abiding illegals who have been here for many years. Reagan was generous with that number being 4 years. I would not support blanket amnesty without some type of fine.
However, since employers continue to hire undocumented workers and because we are not enforcing our immigration laws, we now have probably 20 million illegals and a massive influx under Biden.
The Border Patrol is overwhelmed and we are being flooded with illegal immigrants. We don't know who is getting in. This would seem to be important.
If you're fine with over 100K individuals a month, that we actually know about coming across the southern border, then being dispersed all over the country with no end in sight, well ok. I'm not ok with that.
I don't think Reagan and Bush would be ok with what is going on at the border either, but if we could dig 'em up and get their opinion and they said, "Yeah, it's all good. No problem," I wouldn't support that either.
If you're ok with the current situation on the border at what point seriously would you say, that's enough?
I'm certainly not going apeshyat over this. However, I differ from you in that there needs to be an orderly process for people to come to this country whether that is for economic reasons or because they are seeking refuge.
We can't be the world's policeman nor the landing zone for any and everyone wanting out of their current country. What's your number on what would be a reasonable number of people to allow in?
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: I think they can go through the process of getting
Aug 17, 2021, 10:43 PM
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If Kamela were to say "We are exasperating our relations with Mexico", trumpkins would say "so what" and go apechit.
If Kamela said "these are good, strong people", Trumpkins would holler "they're rapists and drug dealers that are going to infect us with Covid' and go apechit.
If Joe Biden were to say "We haven't been sensitive enough to our size and power", trumpkins scream "snowflake" and would go apechit.
If Joe Biden were say "Now this cannot continue without the possibility arising of trouble below the border, and we could have a very hostile and strange neighbor on our border" Trumpkins would scream "WEAK" and would go apechit.
If Joe Biden were to say "rather than talking about putting up a fence", trumpkins would chant "build that wall" and go apechit
If Joe Biden were to say "Make it possible for them to come here with a work permit, and while they're working and earning here, they pay taxes here, and when they wanted to go back, they can go back and they can cross and open the border both ways.", trumpkins would wail "see, Libs want open borders" and would go apechit.
If Joe Biden were to say "We need to understand their problems" Trumpkins scream "Not our problem" and would go apechit.
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All-TigerNet [12592]
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Re: I think they can go through the process of getting
Aug 18, 2021, 10:02 AM
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You said "you guys" would be going apechit throwing me into the basket of your pejorative of Trumpkins.
In 2016, Trump was my very last choice among the 17 GOP primary candidates. I couldn't stomach him nor Clinton and voted 3rd party. In 2020, based solely on policy as I didn't and don't like Trump the man, I indeed did vote for Trump as I feared Biden would be pulled left as he has and was not in control fully of his mental faculties. Biden has governed as I feared. Trump lost and his actions after the election were in my opinion terrible.
However, things are quite a bit different in Mexico and Central America then in 1980--41 years ago. The Mexican drug cartels didn't really come into power until the '90's after the Cali and Medellin cartels in Columbia were essentially wiped out. MS-13 has gained significantly since then.
Cuba is not able to take care of itself much less attempt to export communism to Central America or Mexico.
We need an orderly process to allow people into the country. We need an orderly way to allow those who have been here for many years to stay. I do feel we need better control of who comes here whether on a ship, plane or across the border. I don't think we need a fence across the entire southern border, but do feel border fencing in certain areas is useful.
Biden/Harris are doing little to enforce existing laws on the books regarding immigration. Mayors and Governors in some blue states are openly flaunting the law.
You never gave me a number of individuals that you think we should allow just to walk in? Is the number limitless? I've spent a lot of time in the countryside and cities of Mexico, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Honduras and Colombia. I feel sorry for the life that many of these people have, but I do believe in borders and our right to control who and how many people get in.
If you don't feel that way, ok, but lose the smug attitude. You can be for border security, have compassion for those less fortunate and take a nuanced view on how to deal with this problem.
I'm not ok with the status quo. If you are, fine. It would appear the Biden/Harris plan is no plan, just ignore existing law and leave the floodgates open.
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: I think they can go through the process of getting
Aug 18, 2021, 11:04 AM
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Lose the smug attitude? LOL. How many times do I have to openly admit on this board that it's by design that I post with the same arrogance and tone as DJT? Sorry man, don't know what to tell you.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: I think they can go through the process of getting
Aug 17, 2021, 10:45 PM
[ in reply to I think they can go through the process of getting ] |
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a visa and becoming a citizen, like millions of others have done in the past. I think the Mexican Government needs to get out of the cartel business. I think we should do more to aid those in Central America/Mexico as well instead of Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan....the list goes on and on.
But your "gotcha" schtick isn't working, so move on.
I believe that the Mexican military should approach the cartels as an enemy force. The murder and mayhem they cause should be considered terrorism and treated accordingly.
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Heisman Winner [111709]
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Re: Value of Life
Aug 17, 2021, 10:36 AM
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Oh please, save your crocodile tears , we all know you dngaf
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Hall of Famer [22948]
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Heisman Winner [111709]
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Re: You mean this guy?
Aug 18, 2021, 10:07 AM
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likely on the tail end of bender.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Value of Life
Aug 17, 2021, 10:43 PM
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I couldn't agree with you more Manac. If one reads history, it's easy to see that the value of a single life has increased. In the 10th century life had almost no value, particularly in Europe. Serfs and the Peasantry were as good as slaves subject to the whims of whoever owned the land. They could be killed for merely offending the Lord of the manor.
Gradually, men became willing to embrace the idea that life mattered. If our country meant anything it was that human life was the primary focus of governence. Men had rights rather than Monarchy. It was a stunning achievement, diametrically opposed to Monarchy.
Gradually, mankind began to, not easily, abandon slavery, moving forward pushing up the value of life. the Civil Rights movement increased it even more, the idea that people had an "Inalienable Right to LIFE, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness" began to fulfill it's promise.
Yet somehow, we now seem to have stepped back. We cherish the lives of our countrymen, yet we bomb, knowing there will be collateral damage. Killing innocent people for 20 years for an ideology that made no sense, other than the $2 Trillion in natural resources laying underground in Afghanistan.
Many parts of the world fall far behind. Afghanistan is 1 of the poorest countries on earth. Most insist on living in an era that closely resembles the 8th century where murder is a part of being faithful to God.
My fear is that that perspective could rub off on our culture, perhaps it already has. Drone missiles would take out identified Taliban fighters. But they also took out the proximate cars and houses with innocent people in them. That, is also not valuing life.
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