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Rock Defender [54]
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VA op-ed on ACC and realignment -
May 29, 2012, 9:58 AM
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Teel Time: Myths, facts about ACC football as Florida State, Clemson ponder future By David Teel
6:56 AM EDT, May 29, 2012
Advertisement
The ACC soon could be under siege. If Big 12 officials meeting this week decide to expand, Florida State and Clemson are potential targets, and if the Seminoles and Tigers exit, others could follow.
Their motivation? Money, of course, real or imagined, from media rights, and potential access to the four-team national football playoff expected in 2014.
As this drama has unfolded, volumes have been spoken and written about the ACC, much of it misleading or false and ignorant of the conference’s history.
Some examples.
MYTH: Long a basketball power, the ACC is not committed to football.
FACTS: Early in his tenure as commissioner, Gene Corrigan made football his top priority, and in 1990 he convinced the league’s eight members to add Florida State and Bobby Bowden’s renowned football program.
This at a time when ACC basketball ruled. Duke was in the midst of a nine-year run that included seven Final Fours and two national championships (1991 and ’92). North Carolina wasn’t far behind – the Tar Heels won Dean Smith’s second national title in 1993 – and Georgia Tech joined Duke in the 1990 Final Four.
How proud was the ACC of its football upgrade? Well, during the conference’s annual preseason media barnstorming bus tour in 1991, it arranged for us to jet west for the Pigskin Classic between Florida State and Brigham Young in Anaheim, Calif.
Never mind that the Seminoles weren’t scheduled to compete in the ACC until 1992. They were preseason No. 1, and the conference wanted to introduce them to league reporters, and vice-versa.
Florida State rolled BYU and returning Heisman Trophy quarterback Ty Detmer 44-28.
John Swofford succeeded Corrigan as commissioner, and in 2003 and ’04 he shepherded an expansion that no matter how awkward and political had one goal: upgrade football and grow membership to 12, the minimum required by the NCAA to stage a conference championship game.
Hello, Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College. Hello, title game.
MYTH: Charter members and basketball icons Duke and North Carolina exert undue influence over ACC policy.
FACTS: Were this true, Virginia Tech, Miami and Boston College would not be in the conference.
League bylaws required at least seven of nine votes for expansion approval. The tally was 7-2, with Duke and North Carolina opposed.
The expansion ringleaders were then-Florida State athletic director Dave Hart, now at Tennessee, and then-Georgia Tech AD Dave Braine, now retired. The Seminoles and Yellow Jackets were the ACC’s most junior members, further debunking the notion of an old guard keeping the conference in the dark ages.
Duke, by the way, also voted against expansion in 1990, along with Maryland. But when the “concept” measure passed 6-2, a separate ballot was conducted on Florida State. That vote was unanimous.
One final note on the Duke-UNC axis: Time was when ACC basketball earned far more than football from television rights fees, and the conference’s best programs received the most money.
Corrigan rightfully thought the ACC needed equitable revenue sharing, but you-know-who had to agree first. Sure enough, Duke athletic director Tom Butters and his North Carolina counterpart, Swofford, signed off on the deal.
MYTH: Last fall’s vote to add Syracuse and Pittsburgh to the ACC was a concession to basketball when better football options were available.
FACTS: Yes, officials from Texas and the ACC spoke informally. But their talks never were serious. Just as it was with the Pacific 12, the Longhorn Network was an issue, and the school opted to remain in the Big 12.
The lone football program superior to Pitt and Syracuse, and truly available to the ACC, was West Virginia. But the Mountaineers aren’t good enough to have been a game-changer competitively, financially or culturally for ACC football.
In fact, were the decision purely about basketball, West Virginia and its 2010 Final Four might have prevailed. Instead, the ACC opted for the better overall athletic and academic fit.
Long story short: Had the ACC chose West Virginia rather than Pitt or Syracuse, the new TV deal with ESPN wouldn't be worth significantly more, and the Florida State-Clemson-Big 12 rumblings still would be out there.
MYTH: ACC schools don’t support football enough.
FACTS: The collective ACC will never match its Southeastern Conference neighbors’ passion/obsession for football. But ACC schools have hardly neglected the sport.
Florida State, Virginia Tech and reigning champion Clemson clearly qualify as football-first athletic departments -- the Hokies rarely stop improving facilities -- and fan bases. Moreover, Virginia expanded and renovated its football stadium before building a new basketball arena and plans an indoor practice complex.
I’m old enough to remember games at North Carolina’s Kenan Stadium where we had to wipe condensation off the press box windows and conduct home-team interviews in virtual closets. The Tar Heels have since spent tens of millions on football facilities. Ditto North Carolina State.
Neither school has reaped extraordinary dividends, but the Wolfpack (2002) and Tar Heels (1997) have cracked the Associated Press’ final top 15 more recently than Clemson (1990).
Even Wake Forest, which no one will confuse with a football school, has upped the ante, in not only facilities but also salary. When Arkansas courted Deacons coach Jim Grobe in 2007 – yes, an accomplished SEC program tried to pilfer a coach from an ACC school that in 2006 won its first conference championship in 36 years – athletic director Ron Wellman raised Grobe’s annual salary to more than $2 million.
MYTH: Florida State bears most of the blame for the ACC’s recent football decline.
FACTS: Since Florida State Board of Regents chairman Andy Haggard’s whiny, inaccurate portrayal of the ACC’s new media contract with ESPN, the Seminoles have been an inviting target. They last finished among the top 10 in 2000, the most recent season in which they defeated a top-10 non-conference opponent (No. 4 Florida).
But Florida State carried ACC football for a decade, winning two national titles in the process. From 1987 to 2000, the Seminoles never finished outside the top five, sustained excellence that may never be matched.
Besides, Florida State has beaucoup company among ACC disappointments.
Miami was 46-4 in the four seasons before its 2004 ACC debut. The Hurricanes are 59-41 since, 33-31 in conference play, and have yet to reach the league championship game.
Clemson hasn’t posted consecutive top-25 seasons since 1990 and ’91. Georgia Tech has lost seven bowls in the last seven years. Four-time ACC champion Virginia Tech is 1-6 against non-conference top-10 opponents since joining the ACC, the lone victory over No. 6 West Virginia in 2004.
And those are the ACC’s football powers. Suffice to say the league’s other programs aren’t keeping Nick Saban, Les Miles and Urban Meyer awake at night.
The morals of the story:
* The ACC’s football shortcomings aren’t for lack of effort.
* Before blaming conference affiliation, those unhappy with their place on football’s food chain need to look in the mirror and win more games.
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Legend [19704]
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Re: VA op-ed on ACC and realignment -
May 29, 2012, 10:01 AM
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MYTH: This article is worth a crap
FACT: Any article that disputes the NC schools influence over policy isn't worth a crap.
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110%er [5443]
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Re: VA op-ed on ACC and realignment -
May 29, 2012, 10:23 AM
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so what he said was swofford really hasn't done Jack
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Rock Defender [54]
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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I'm a little confused, what does adding FSU 20 years ago
May 29, 2012, 10:03 AM
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have to do with the current ACC's committment to football?
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Oculus Spirit [83322]
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More than anything you could add questioning their
May 29, 2012, 10:34 AM
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commitment to football.
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Hall of Famer [21652]
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boom***
May 29, 2012, 3:55 PM
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Orange Blooded [4112]
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This article is right on and ....
May 29, 2012, 10:08 AM
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VIRGINIA (UVa, "The University") is going to surprise a LOT of people this year. They are going to meet CLEMSON! in the ACC Championship this year! That's right, you heard it first on TigerNet!
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Legend [19704]
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Re: This article is right on and ....
May 29, 2012, 10:09 AM
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You, crzy and Bryant get more delusional with every post you make.
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Oculus Spirit [82106]
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This coming from the guy with a psychotic break over getting
May 29, 2012, 10:18 AM
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thumbs downs...
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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^^^^ knows krzy and ain't afraid to use it.***
May 29, 2012, 10:19 AM
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All-TigerNet [13888]
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Orange Blooded [4112]
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Bloody Marys are actually ....
May 29, 2012, 10:14 AM
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Good for you! Got the V-8 (chocked full of vitamins), the vodka clears the cholesterol out of the arteries
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Starter [381]
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Re: Bloody Marys are actually ....
May 29, 2012, 10:51 AM
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Actually agree with this post overall. The only question I've had is why, in the early 90's, did we stop with just FSU, when so many other quality teams were available, while the sec made the jump to 12. We had every opportunity to keep up and chose otherwise.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: This article is right on and ....
May 29, 2012, 10:20 AM
[ in reply to This article is right on and .... ] |
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that article is A JOKE!!! full of errors(or lies)whichever U want to think
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Rock Defender [54]
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That would be fine with me, although beating the Hokies
May 29, 2012, 12:10 PM
[ in reply to This article is right on and .... ] |
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4x in two seasons has its charms as well as you certainly would understand.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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preach it brother teel.
***
May 29, 2012, 10:14 AM
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Orange Blooded [4662]
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VT was not the ACC's first choice...they wanted 'Cuse, but
May 29, 2012, 10:16 AM
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UVA pull political strings to get them in.
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Oculus Spirit [83322]
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True but you have the reasons mixed up. UVA wanted to
May 29, 2012, 10:23 AM
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initially keep VT out and Governor convinced them otherwise. The reason for Syrcacuse was the NY market.
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Orange Blooded [4662]
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Regardless, it was not like VT was targeted for improving
May 29, 2012, 10:26 AM
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football in the ACC. If we had taken 'Cuse, how would the ACC look?...
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Oculus Spirit [83322]
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We'd have a few less losses, maybe another ACC title.***
May 29, 2012, 10:32 AM
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Orange Blooded [4662]
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Yes, and another subpar ACC team versus what VT has
May 29, 2012, 10:43 AM
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done...We only play VT twice every 6 years. Plus games involving 'Cuse would have hardly warranted TV exposure.
My point is that no one should be given credit for adding to ACC football lore by adding VT...they were a fallback.
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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Duke and UNC were blocking all expansion
May 29, 2012, 10:30 AM
[ in reply to VT was not the ACC's first choice...they wanted 'Cuse, but ] |
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since they knew that UVA couldn't vote for something that would hurt VT (by killing the Big East as a football conference).
Duke, UNC and Swofford didn't bank on the rest of the schools so willing accepting VT even though they were 'in the footprint.'
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Oculus Spirit [83322]
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LOL***
May 29, 2012, 10:39 AM
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Oculus Spirit [83322]
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Good article.***
May 29, 2012, 10:33 AM
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Oculus Spirit [94405]
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Stick a fork in it!***
May 29, 2012, 10:33 AM
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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Re: VA op-ed on ACC and realignment -
May 29, 2012, 10:33 AM
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If the ACC would have taken WVU over Pitt (or Syracuse) then we wouldn't be having this conversation. The Big 12 wouldn't be a viable entity. They would have had to take a weaker football playing school just to get to 10. That make up wouldn't have been attractive to TV nor potential expansion targets.
MYTH: Last fall’s vote to add Syracuse and Pittsburgh to the ACC was a concession to basketball when better football options were available.
FACTS: Yes, officials from Texas and the ACC spoke informally. But their talks never were serious. Just as it was with the Pacific 12, the Longhorn Network was an issue, and the school opted to remain in the Big 12.
The lone football program superior to Pitt and Syracuse, and truly available to the ACC, was West Virginia. But the Mountaineers aren’t good enough to have been a game-changer competitively, financially or culturally for ACC football.
In fact, were the decision purely about basketball, West Virginia and its 2010 Final Four might have prevailed. Instead, the ACC opted for the better overall athletic and academic fit.
Long story short: Had the ACC chose West Virginia rather than Pitt or Syracuse, the new TV deal with ESPN wouldn't be worth significantly more, and the Florida State-Clemson-Big 12 rumblings still would be out there.
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Legend [16343]
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i cried then laughed at this quote he put..
May 29, 2012, 10:37 AM
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The lone football program superior to Pitt and Syracuse, and truly available to the ACC, was West Virginia. But the Mountaineers aren’t good enough to have been a game-changer competitively
is he talking about the same team that demolished us the acc champs in the orange bowl last year saying they wouldnt be competitive in the acc?
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Orange Blooded [4782]
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Re: i cried then laughed at this quote he put..
May 29, 2012, 10:42 AM
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Not to make excuses, but I think WVU's destruction of Clemson was due more to bad matchups--the perfect storm of their fast offense with a good running quarterback (always our weak spot) versus our over-complicated defense that NOBODY managed to master last year--than it was to WVU simply being a vastly superior team. (It didn't help that our players completely psyched themselves out too.) After all they were the Big East representative only by tiebreaker, not by record.
Again, not making any excuses for the game or how bad we got smokes. Clearly we were out-everythinged in that game. But using that game to call WVU an elite program is a bit far-fetched.
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Legend [16343]
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never said they were elite..
May 29, 2012, 10:42 AM
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but they clearly would be competitive in the ACC
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Orange Blooded [3350]
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Last year anyway. We have to look at programs that are
May 29, 2012, 11:18 AM
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going to consistantly be players. There haven't been any in the ACC for a while so we need some. Having said that, when the NCAA begins to hold all conferences to the same level of academic accountability the parity among conferences will level out more. Athletic budgets are alway brought up with the expansion realignment talk. Do you serously think UVA and other schools in the ACC can't raise the money to compete if they wanted to? My point is $3MM dollars difference in a TV contract isn't going to mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things and isn't enough to make Clemson consider realignment. The only thing that could force us to consider moving to another conference is if it looked like we weren't going to be included in a playoff scenario and there's no way in heck that's going to happen. I'm not in love with the ACC or any other conference for that matter, but I haven't seen anything that makes me feel like changing leagues makes any kind of sense at this point. As the article points out, if our league would just win some games we can renegotiate our contract in 5 years and the money will come.
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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Who are those?
May 29, 2012, 11:21 AM
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shoot, Clemson doesn't even qualify as a "consistant player."
Neither does TAMU or Missouri or Colorado. Its not so much about on the field in expansion but rather potential and TV sets.
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Orange Blooded [3350]
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Is there an echo in here?***
May 29, 2012, 5:08 PM
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CU Guru [1895]
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Legend [16343]
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a lot of what that guy says is..
May 29, 2012, 10:36 AM
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irrelevant harping on what fsu did years ago.has nothing to do with now. also v tech wasnt even first choice.they were pretty much a force in due to virgina.
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110%er [9110]
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I have no doubt that UNC and Duke have more.....
May 29, 2012, 10:42 AM
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influence than anyone else - they and NC State and Wake Forest are the reasons everything is so focused on the state of NC.
I also don't believe the commitment to football is here to stay. I think efforts were made by bringing in FSU, etc. but now that things haven't worked out I truly believe the powers in the ACC will take steps to insure basketball comes first.
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Orange Blooded [4782]
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Re: VA op-ed on ACC and realignment -
May 29, 2012, 10:45 AM
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I think this writer has conveniently forgotten just how difficult it was to push expansion through the ACC decisionmakers. UNC and Duke wielded vastly disproportionate power in that deal and they continue to wield disproportionate power.
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Head Coach [757]
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Every member school has one vote.
May 29, 2012, 11:42 AM
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They have one vote just like every other member school.
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Orange Blooded [4782]
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You keep on thinking that***
May 29, 2012, 9:37 PM
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Head Coach [757]
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Its a fact***
May 30, 2012, 1:43 PM
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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Don't be an idiot
May 29, 2012, 11:45 AM
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If you don't think UNC wields more influence than just their one vote you are nuts
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Connoisseur [364]
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Re: VA op-ed on ACC and realignment -
May 29, 2012, 11:56 AM
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A WVU/Pitt combo would have been infinitely better than Pitt/Syracuse
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All-TigerNet [10357]
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Re: VA op-ed on ACC and realignment -
May 29, 2012, 12:02 PM
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MYTH: The ACC is a football conference.
FACT: It is not.
MYTH: Clemson and FSU are leaving.
Fact: You #### right we are leaving Swofford!
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Legend [19352]
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Re: VA op-ed on ACC and realignment -
May 29, 2012, 12:03 PM
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lol @ this "writer".
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All-TigerNet [12603]
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It's not about the past. It is about a future of hearing
May 29, 2012, 3:53 PM
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the other conferences referred to as the "Big 4 Conference" and trying to recruit agains that. About a future of $5 million per year less than a rival.
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Hall of Famer [21652]
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If we go undefeated next year we could kill that.***
May 29, 2012, 3:56 PM
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CU Guru [1055]
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Re: VA op-ed on ACC and realignment -
May 29, 2012, 4:13 PM
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Probable the most sensible post I have read on this topic in the past month and perhaps ever on Tigernet.
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Rock Defender [54]
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danka***
May 29, 2012, 9:07 PM
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Athletic Dir [861]
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Commitment is shown by how you spend your money.
May 29, 2012, 5:32 PM
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Where your treasure lies, there your heart lies. He is right to say that Clemson has not been as successful lately as some other ACC schools in football, and while this is an embarrassing circumstance it hardly shows that Virginia and Wake Forrest are more committed to football than Clemson. Our facilities are impressive, our stadium is huge, our fan base is rabid. We love football (even if we haven't won as much as we should have recently). Other schools in the ACC do not love football like Clemson does, period! FACT!
Perhaps, we have been lulled to sleep by this non-football conference in much the same way teams are lulled to sleep by Duke's high school stadium. Maybe if we get around some other schools that truly love football we will wake up.
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Enthusiast [115]
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You're right
May 30, 2012, 1:27 AM
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in saying that Clemson has been down (Thanks Hatfield. Still trying to figure out how we hired a coach that eventually managed to destroy Rice) since the debacle of firing Danny Ford. FSU is in the midst of a downslope, just as all programs must ebb and flow. What this article ignores completely is the reasons for expansion in the ACC and the reasons why the football schools are unhappy. Poor leadership is just that, but unfortunately there hasn't been enough pressure to rid ourselves of Swofford. This has been going on for far too long, and there are a lot of Tiger fans that have been anxious to leave the basketball heavy league for a while. This is more a test of the BOTs commitment to football than anything else. Do we stay in a league that will only lessen our value as a school on the national stage because it is comfortable, or do we accept an offer (where ever that offer may come from) that gives us the opportunity to return to one of the best on the football field?
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Head Coach [757]
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Or do we stay and improve?***
May 30, 2012, 1:45 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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FSU joined because they saw the ACC as weak and
May 30, 2012, 3:37 PM
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easy to dominate. It worked for awhile, but then they slowed down to ACC speed.
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Rock Defender [54]
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bmp***
Jun 7, 2012, 10:37 AM
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Replies: 54
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