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All-In [44055]
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This myth that we don't have talent on our football team
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Oct 30, 2023, 12:57 PM
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has to stop.
When confronted with our consistent top 10 recruiting classes, the response from the pumpers is that we have talent, but not at the right positions. The position groups mentioned are typically offensive line and wide receiver.
So let's look at some of our offensive linemen who played against NC State:
Tristan Leigh - 5-star recruit, rated as the #4 offensive tackle in his class at the #16 player overall.
Will Putnam - 4-star recruit, rated as the #4 offensive guard in his class and the #118 player nationally regardless of position.
Dietrick Pennington - 4-star recruit, rated as the #9 interior offensive lineman and the #138 player nationally in his class.
Marcus Tate - 4-star recruit, #14 interior offensive lineman in his class and the #218 player overall.
Collin Sadler - 4-star recruit, #29 offensive tackle in his class.
Blake Miller - 4-star recruit, #31 offensive tackle in his class.
I'm not seeing a lack of talent here at all. I'm not arguing that they are the best OL group in the country like Dabo probably would, but there is plenty of talent here.
Now let's look at wide receiver:
Beaux Collins - 4-star recruit, #26 wide receiver and #182 overall in his class.
Adam Randall - 4-star recruit, #17 wide receiver and #103 overall in his class.
Troy Stellato - 4-star recruit, #32 wide receiver and #227 overall in his class.
Jake Briningstool - 4-star recruit, #3 tight end and #86 overall in his class.
I don't see a lack of talent here either. This list doesn't include Tyler Brown, who is arguably our best receiver and who was an unheralded 3-star recruit, as well as Antonio Williams who was injured. Williams was a 4-star recruit, the #6 receiver and #61 player overall in his class.
While there isn't a super elite Sammy Watkins type guy here, we do have several pass catchers who were highly recruited.
Perhaps when some of you say talent, you are actually referring to production. In that case, I agree, we haven't gotten nearly enough production from these two position groups. I believe that this is due to poor coaching, which has failed to develop these players' talents effectively and also has not consistently put them in position to succeed.
Finally, if talent is the issue, why didn't our coaches do something about it? You would think that we would have been using the transfer portal if we saw that we had not recruited the right players to begin with.
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Athletic Dir [867]
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Re: This myth that we don't have talent on our football team
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Oct 30, 2023, 12:59 PM
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We’ve had talent on the basketball team so why the constant failures?
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Orange Blooded [3615]
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Re: This myth that we don't have talent on our football team
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Oct 30, 2023, 1:01 PM
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The stupid refs won't allow us to have 6 players on the court. Things like that.
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110%er [5961]
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Re: This myth that we don't have talent on our football team
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Oct 30, 2023, 1:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: This myth that we don't have talent on our football team ] |
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Talent on basketball court ??
Tell me the last time we got #1 QB, or #1 anything in basketball ?
I mean, the football team is full of top 150 players nationally year in and year out since 2010 or so....basketball may get a top 100 recruit once a year, I think we have 2 this year but that is not common. Plus basketball, only the top teams get the top 20/30 guys anyway since only 5 can play and having 1 elite player can be enough to change a program
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: This myth that we don't have talent on our football team
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Oct 30, 2023, 1:00 PM
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It's not a myth. You can talk stars all you want, but what matter is speed, change of direction ability, and vertical jump. We simply don't have receivers who can consistently stretch the defense, or win contested balls.
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All-In [44055]
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So the recruiting services were wrong about all of them?
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Oct 30, 2023, 1:01 PM
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And our coaches were wrong about them?
Is this really the hill you're prepared to die on?
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: So the recruiting services were wrong about all of them?
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Oct 30, 2023, 1:06 PM
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No, they weren't wrong. You may have a player who is a 5* possession receiver. That's all well and good, but when you need a deep threat, a possession receiver doesn’t help you, even if he is a 5*.
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Orange Blooded [3615]
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All-In [48392]
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Re: So the recruiting services were wrong about all of them?
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Oct 30, 2023, 1:11 PM
[ in reply to So the recruiting services were wrong about all of them? ] |
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You forgot a few that's been here 3-4 years
Ryan Linthicum - rivals #1 center 4*
Mayes - #2 espn tackle 4*
Bryn Tucker - #4 ot and 132 best in nation 4* - graded 85% and all state Tennessee player for 3 years. Everybody wanted him. Bama, osu, ND, mich etc.
Judge Keller®
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Orange Blooded [3615]
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Re: So the recruiting services were wrong about all of them?
Oct 30, 2023, 1:12 PM
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Generally linthicum wasnt that highly regarded. That was just that one site. He still may end up alright though.
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All-In [44055]
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All-In [25753]
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Re: This myth that we don't have talent on our football team
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Oct 30, 2023, 1:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: This myth that we don't have talent on our football team ] |
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Coaches, to an extent can teach those things. At least the proper mechanics and then practice, drills, practice, drills, etc. till your tongue is dragging the ground.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: This myth that we don't have talent on our football team
Oct 30, 2023, 2:21 PM
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No, you can't teach speed or vertical ability. You can focus on fundamentals and execution, that's true. I do that needs to improve ftom the coaching staff. That said, given the lack of playmakers, that would probably improve you to 6-2, not 8-0.
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CU Medallion [55433]
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Re: This myth that we don't have talent on our football team
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Oct 30, 2023, 1:08 PM
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It's not the talent Judge, everything we're seeing is about the coaching staff that Dabo has hired, and he took the cheap road with his hires!!!
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Orange Blooded [3615]
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Re: This myth that we don't have talent on our football team
Oct 30, 2023, 1:16 PM
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Isn't Kiffin one of the highest paid? Maybe the highest?
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Athletic Dir [884]
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Re: This myth that we don't have talent on our football team
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Oct 30, 2023, 1:09 PM
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You touched on it with the Sammy comment. Many people say there's no talent b/c the roster doesn't have that high end difference maker. Until 2019, the roster had multiple high end WRs or a combination of a WR and RB. Right now, this roster doesn't have THAT guy.
Andre Ellington was horribly underrated, just needed to plug my guy.
Cade is struggling. I don't think he's terrible. He definitely hasn't played up to the standard. MAN he has made some absolutely jaw dropping throws only to get let down on the other end more than he's been helped. Unfortunately, he's made as many or more BAD decisions/throws and they have absolutely buried the team. If he gets any level of help with a difference maker on the field the offense will look much better.
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110%er [7535]
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Re: This myth that we don't have talent on our football team
Oct 30, 2023, 1:27 PM
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Ellington was super underrated and under appreciated by our fans. We would be a lot better today if we had him on the team.
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All-In [44055]
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: This myth that we don't have talent on our football team
Oct 30, 2023, 2:24 PM
[ in reply to Re: This myth that we don't have talent on our football team ] |
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That's the point though. The only way we have won is with high end differece makers. We simply aren't constructed to win without those high end difference makers.
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All-TigerNet [13159]
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Not true. We have 100 busts over the last 3 years.
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Oct 30, 2023, 1:14 PM
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Gotta be a record.
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110%er [8540]
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Re: This myth that we don't have talent on our football team
Oct 30, 2023, 1:21 PM
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On paper talent is on paper. We have talent, but the rank and file fail to understand that other teams also have talent. We were light years ahead of the majority of teams we were playing in the 14-19 years. If we had a slow day on offense, our defense stepped up and vice versa. Now other teams have closed the gap. We still have amazing talent but other teams have both talent and desire and winning is harder and the last 3 years shows that.
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All-In [25753]
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Re: This myth that we don't have talent on our football team
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Oct 30, 2023, 1:33 PM
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Other teams we play are not filled with nepotism and cronyism coaching hires with no experience. We are out coached and I am not talking just in game coaching but developing players.
You can spend all month talking about what is wrong with the team. It boils down to one word. COACHES.
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Hall of Famer [24226]
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Tell em shill
Oct 30, 2023, 1:34 PM
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.
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All-In [44055]
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Says the guy who responds to every post
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Oct 30, 2023, 1:38 PM
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with nothing of substance.
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Hall of Famer [24226]
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Irony from you ?
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Oct 30, 2023, 2:08 PM
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Shill
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CU Guru [1045]
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110%er [7535]
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Re: This myth that we don't have talent on our football team
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Oct 30, 2023, 1:35 PM
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Three things: OL overall star rating is probably best Clemson has had except maybe few yrs with Ford but I don't know how recruits were rated then if at all? It is definitely a lack of development and coaching.
Second: there is a lot of talent on the team but we are not 2Deep anymore. 1DL gets hurt and we are playing a guy that never made the travel roster. 1DE gets injured and we have to play 2 true freshman to fill slots.
And lastly: our WRs look better as true freshman than they do as Soph and Jr yrs. Why was Antonio Williams #1 wr last yr, why is T Brown this yr both as true frshman. BCollins looked better his fresh yr than he does now. Are these guys getting better coaching in HS? Why the drop in production after frshman yrs?? This has to be coaching.
I leave it as: "In Dabo I Trust", but he has some work to do.
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110%er [5401]
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Re: This myth that we don't have talent on our football team
Oct 30, 2023, 1:39 PM
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Dabo needs to fire some of his coaches to correct the current state of Clemson football. Until the coaching changes are made, I don’t think it will matter how many five star recruits he gets.
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Team Captain [455]
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Re: This myth that we don't have talent on our football team
Oct 30, 2023, 2:14 PM
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Star ratings are just something to get the fan bases excited about. In reality you don’t really know what kind of player you are getting until they reach campus. Down fall of Florida State was they only recruited by star system and the kids never lived up to the ranking. So yes Clemsons offensive line is not very good even though they might have been highly ranked kids. Sometimes you just miss on prospects
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Scout Team [156]
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Re: This myth that we don't have talent on our football team
Oct 30, 2023, 2:39 PM
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Bama, Ohio St., and Georgia are all built on star power. Look at their record over the last 10 years. Recruiting star power was not FSU’s decline and neither is it ours. Coaching and developing (or lack there of) is our problem and was arguably their problem also.
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CU Medallion [58445]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Im not smart enough to understand the
Oct 30, 2023, 7:59 PM
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rating system for recruits or coaching and player development -- how a 3* can transform into an All-American and a 5* can ride the bench. How scouts missed on Tom Brady and yet made Ryan Leaf the belle of the ball.
I agree that to say CU isnt loaded for bear is indeed a myth.
But, it all seems very nuanced. DJ looked like hot garbage at Clemson but seems to be doing well at Oregawn State.
So, is DJ's turn around about coaching? Game planning? The talent around him? Or just the fresh Pacific NW air?
My gut tells me Dabo Swinney is a great psychologist and recruiter but an average football coach. I suspect many top coaches are same, btw.
I think he caught lightning in a bottle at Clemson. Now that it's gone, I dont know that he will again. And I doubt his formula travels well. Cant imagine him starting over elsewhere.
Another myth worth busting:
That fans owe Dabo loyalty. Fans owe Dabo nothing. Just win, baby.
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