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Replies: 33
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Legend [19586]
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GOR and ACC Bylaws FAQ
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Aug 7, 2023, 4:32 PM
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Can we get this pinned to the top of Tigernet so the same questions aren't asked over and over.
The GOR
1. What is the Grant of Rights (GOR)?
A document signed by all ACC members in 2013 and extended in 2016 granting production, broadcast, distribution and copyright of all conference sanctioned school sporting events to the ACC until 2036.
2. Does ESPN own the GOR?
No. The ACC owns the rights and has a contract with ESPN allowing them to produce and broadcast the events until 2036.
3. Does the GOR go away if a school is added to the ACC?
No. The GOR contains protocols for adding new members and they must sign the GOR.
4. Does the GOR go away if a member leaves the conference?
No. The remaining members will own that member's media rights until 2036.
5. Does the GOR go away if 8 schools leave the conference?
No. If 9 schools leave the conference, the remaining 14 (not including Notre Dame Football) would own all of their media rights until 2036.
6. Can 8 schools vote to end the GOR?
This is vague. The GOR states unanimous votes needed to change or amend it but ACC bylaws indicate a majority vote can take an action. The legal question would be, can a majority vote of ACC schools according to bylaws trump the GOR unanimous requirement.
7. Can ESPN end the GOR.
No.
ACC Bylaws
1. Can the conference be dissolved by a vote of 8 schools?
This is a little vague but the bylaws seem to indicate so. The ACC bylaws state that a quorum is defined by 2/3 of members "present" and a board action is defined by a majority vote of the quorum. The bylaws do not state any special voting procedure for dissolution.
With all that said, this would be the "nuclear" option as it would destroy the future of several ACC schools athletics programs and would leave the aggressors with a bad reputation.
2. What is the exit fee?
Assumed to be $120 million and $100 million for Notre Dame which would include their 5 game contract.
3. Does paying the exit fee get a school out of the GOR?
No.
Let's keep this going, active, and accurate. I can add to this or amend as we go along. Let me know if corrections are needed.
Edited: Noted the correction to definitions of Quorum and Action in ACC Bylaws as explained by ClemTig.
Message was edited by: CUAtTheFinishLine®
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CU Medallion [57190]
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you’re no fun.***
Aug 7, 2023, 4:38 PM
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Letterman [290]
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explain #5
Aug 7, 2023, 4:41 PM
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If 9 schools leave, and their are 5 left... that is not a viable conference. Are you saying those schools would own the media rights, even if if they added 9 new members? Would you new members get a piece of that, or just the 5 remaining?
What if they don't add and join other conferences? Who gets the rights then?
What if everyone leaves but Duke and Wake. 10 new members are brought in to form the "new ACC". Does Duke and Wake get to collect media rights money from the other 12 members for 10+ years?
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Legend [19586]
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All of the above
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Aug 7, 2023, 4:48 PM
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"if 9 schools leave, and their are 5 left... that is not a viable conference."
Well sure but the media rights deal would still include all 14 because the ACC owns the rights to all 14 and all 14 would remain broadcast by ESPN and ACC branded. Those who left the conference just wouldn't get any money. They would have forfeit their share of the ESPN agreement.
"Are you saying those schools would own the media rights, even if if they added 9 new members? "
Yes. The media money is not a contract per school. It's a contract between ESPN and the ACC for all ACC owned media. If 9 leave and 9 are added then the ACC would own the media rights to 23 schools. Big pay day for the ACC.
"What if they don't add and join other conferences? Who gets the rights then?"
The rights remain with whatever member(s) are left until there are none.
"What if everyone leaves but Duke and Wake. 10 new members are brought in to form the "new ACC". Does Duke and Wake get to collect media rights money from the other 12 members for 10+ years?"
Duke and Wake would collect whatever their share is of the ACC TV contract that is in place at that time. Again, there is no money per school. It's one big contract. The rights remain with the conference and media deal is the media deal until 2036 unless it's renegotiated.
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Rock Defender [60]
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Re: All of the above
Aug 7, 2023, 4:59 PM
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You seem quite knowledgable on the GoR and your great explanations are helpful and appreciated.
You cover most of the potential actions and results, but tell me this.
If current members can magically find a way to leave, and ESPN is obligated to continue the full annual rights amount paid to the League, although receiving a reduced product inventory, does the League office just hold the departing school's $ share(s) ? Are they obligated to share out the departing teams $ share to the remaining members?
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Legend [19586]
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Re: All of the above
Aug 7, 2023, 5:06 PM
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ESPN wouldn't be receiving a reduced product inventory though. They would still have the right to broadcast those exiting schools games branded as ACC media as the ACC still owns those rights. The TV would not change. The pay out per school in the ACC would be whatever it is divided up amongst the remaining members.
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Rock Defender [60]
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Re: All of the above
Aug 7, 2023, 5:16 PM
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I see, but that assumes the departing members will actually find a place to play without bringing any revenue. Correct?
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Legend [19586]
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Re: All of the above
Aug 7, 2023, 5:42 PM
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Bingo. Which is why no one has left or been invited and won’t be until a legal avenue to break ties exists.
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Rock Defender [60]
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Re: All of the above
Aug 7, 2023, 5:51 PM
[ in reply to All of the above ] |
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Hmm?
"Yes. The media money is not a contract per school. It's a contract between ESPN and the ACC for all ACC owned media. If 9 leave and 9 are added then the ACC would own the media rights to 23 schools. Big pay day for the ACC".
I thought the contract annual value is not increased due to additional members. ESPN pays the ACC the full,annual amount if members leave or members are added? If the membership increases beyond the current level ESPN pays more?
In the new Big12 agreement ESPN fee is boosted for each new member equal to the $ paid existing schools. This feature is what underpins the 4 new members to make the move and leave the PAC, where the Apple offer only was firm for $21- 25 million not matching the Big 12 guarantee of $32million. Apple offered a potential for more $ based on growing subscription levels. ASU President argued that over next 10 years the higher money from the Apple subscription incentives would get PAC to $60 million SEC level. But the other 3 Presidents just saw more risk and took the $32M guarantee, and ASU reluctantly tagged along.
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CU Medallion [51016]
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Are you sure about the part where you say
Aug 8, 2023, 9:44 AM
[ in reply to All of the above ] |
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the ACC holds the rights for each school if they leave and ESPN would still air the games as if they are still ACC teams? I read it as the ACC will get the TV money generated by teams who leave, so if Clemson leaves and joins a conference that ESPN does not air, income from Clemson's games would be based on that conference's contract and go to the ACC.
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Legend [19586]
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No that is not how it could work
Aug 8, 2023, 9:54 AM
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ESPN would not be able to broadcast the games as SEC branded or Big12 branded unless the ACC gave them permission to do so as the ACC would still own the media rights.
Now if ESPN worked out a deal with the ACC to pay them for the media and the ability to rebrand it then of course they could do that but why would ESPN pay twice for the same media? They're already under contract with the ACC for that very same media branded as ACC. I don't see ESPN paying them even more just to rebrand it.
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Rock Defender [60]
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Re: GOR and ACC Bylaws FAQ
Aug 7, 2023, 4:47 PM
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Excellent and accurate Cliff Notes version.
As you read this and understand the negotiating positions of both the League and ESPN you quickly grasp how absolutely terrible this contract is over an extended period of time. Did the League not receive any flexibility or recognition that events and market conditions would shift in the next 20 years?
Sounds like a Mafia contract to me, you know where only 1 side shows up to negotiate, but both sides always sign up.
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Legend [19586]
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The more I read it
Aug 7, 2023, 4:49 PM
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The more it sounds like something that a bunch of basketball bozos came up with and tricked football brand schools into signing to subsidize themselves long term.
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Rock Defender [60]
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Re: The more I read it
Aug 7, 2023, 5:21 PM
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As I digest all the online information about the GoR and the positions of the other conferences on additional members one could suggest that Clemson is best served by doing 2 things.
Over the next 10 years, win as many football games, conference and national championships as possible, while simultaneously going full speed in boosting academics to position for future AAU and BiG membership, as that League will have the fattest bank.
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Legend [19586]
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CU Guru [1760]
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Re: GOR and ACC Bylaws FAQ
Aug 7, 2023, 4:53 PM
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What damages could the ACC sue for with breach of GOR if at the end of the day, the ACC member schools still get the same $30 million? I think that's how ESPN will move fsu / clemson to the SEC and move Cal and Stanford to the ACC and renegotiate the ACC contract. For espn, fsu/florida clemson/usc will be conference games... they go to 9 games and make more money and more money off of big name matchups.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: GOR and ACC Bylaws FAQ
Aug 7, 2023, 4:56 PM
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ESPN has no say so in the matter. The ACC owns the rights. ESPN has no authority to force the ACC to release those rights nor does ESPN have any leverage to not pay the ACC as they are obligated to their contract as well.
There's a reason that every single conference in college football has had big movement the last 2 to 3 years except.......the ACC.
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CU Guru [1760]
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Re: GOR and ACC Bylaws FAQ
Aug 7, 2023, 5:03 PM
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ESPN has the gold.... so they have plenty of say. If they can maximize profit while mitigating *financial* damages, contracts can be modified, or damages in court can be minimized. If they can get Standford into the conference where ND is tied... and then make the playoff harder to achieve, they might could even get ND a little later on. They could tie the other ACC schools out of the BiG or BIG 12 using the GOR.
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CU Guru [1760]
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Re: GOR and ACC Bylaws FAQ
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Aug 7, 2023, 5:06 PM
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My only evidence is why else would Paul Finebaum ever say a kind word about Clemson being in the sec! 
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CU Guru [1760]
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This is the key
1
Aug 7, 2023, 5:26 PM
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https://twitter.com/MHver3/status/1688643861654945792?s=20
Why would this even be a question at this moment? full share new members can cover a lawsuit.
9 vs. 8 games is the key for ESPN because that increases revenue and makes dealing worth it to ESPN.
Cal & Standford reduce the cost of keeping the other ACC members whole and keep key players on the West Coast market (and locked in with a GOR)....
just have to make it worth more money for the other ACC schools to agree to it instead of sue. And, keeping the conference together is best case scenario for every member not FSU and Clemson.
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110%er [6453]
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Re: GOR and ACC Bylaws FAQ
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Aug 7, 2023, 4:55 PM
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Holy ####. Who the hell were our lawyers advising Clemson to sign onto this soul selling contract???
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Rock Defender [60]
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Re: GOR and ACC Bylaws FAQ
Aug 7, 2023, 5:06 PM
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Don't know their names, but do know they are certainly enjoying the high life on their ESPN lifetime retainers.They didn't just give away the money in the bank, they gave away the entire ### building.
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All-In [38141]
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Re: GOR and ACC Bylaws FAQ
Aug 7, 2023, 5:01 PM
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Since 8 schools leaving won't get it done, what about 7?
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110%er [5014]
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A sure fire way out is for FSU & Clemson is simply suspend
Aug 7, 2023, 5:01 PM
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Athletic Programs for the foreseeable future and leave the ACC with zero media to generate revenue from. I know it sounds drastic, but if you are not willing to pull that trigger, you give up a ton of leverage.
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110%er [5401]
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Re: A sure fire way out is for FSU & Clemson is simply suspend
Aug 7, 2023, 5:17 PM
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To me, that would be worse than making less money than the SEC and B1G teams.
Clemson is going to need the federal government to explode the whole football setup or figure out a way to generate more money. I am expecting ticket costs to increase.
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110%er [5014]
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The way to do that is for big brands to just walk away from
Aug 7, 2023, 5:28 PM
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Sports
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All-In [38141]
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Re: GOR and ACC Bylaws FAQ
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Aug 7, 2023, 5:11 PM
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Swofford!!!...
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All-In [25753]
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Re: GOR and ACC Bylaws FAQ
Aug 7, 2023, 5:26 PM
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Swofford and ESPN MUST have had pictures of all the college Ad's and presidents from the late Jeffery Epstein. No other rational explanation for signing that document.
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All-American [570]
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Re: GOR and ACC Bylaws FAQ
Aug 7, 2023, 5:26 PM
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IF true - I guess some contracts are not meant to be broken. Its our own fault for signing it.
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110%er [7219]
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Re: GOR and ACC Bylaws FAQ
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Aug 7, 2023, 5:38 PM
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"1. Can the conference be dissolved by a vote of 8 schools?
No. The ACC bylaws state that a quorum is defined by 2/3 of members which would be at least 10 schools."
That's not technically correct... A quorum is only needed to have a vote. From the Bylaws-
"1.6.1 Quorum.
Except as provided under applicable law, this Constitution or the Bylaws, two-thirds (2/3) of all Directors present at a meeting of the Board shall constitute a quorum of the Board; provided that, in the case of any matter requiring the affirmative vote of more than two-thirds (2/3) of all Directors present, a quorum shall only exist if at least that number of Directors equal to such required vote is present.
1.6.2 Required Vote.
Each Director shall be entitled to one vote each. Except as otherwise provided herein or in the Bylaws, if a quorum is present when a vote of the Directors is taken, the affirmative vote of a majority of all Directors present for such vote shall be an act of the Board."
There are exceptions that are specifically spelled out when higher votes are needed. Dissolution of the conference is not one of the exceptions spelled out.
So, by my take if only 2/3 of the directors show up (10), a vote could be taken to dissolve the conference, and a vote of only 6 for and 4 against would be all that is needed to end the ACC. This of course would never happen. If they all show up, 8 yes votes should be the magic number.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: GOR and ACC Bylaws FAQ
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Aug 7, 2023, 5:47 PM
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Interesting. You may be correct. I’ll read this more later and update the OP if necessary.
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All-In [36410]
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If Swoffie is Put in a Wood Chipper Does The GOR End?***
Aug 8, 2023, 9:55 AM
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110%er [5014]
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Re: GOR and ACC Bylaws FAQ***
Aug 8, 2023, 10:22 AM
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110%er [5014]
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There is no doubt that the sales people
Aug 8, 2023, 10:28 AM
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ESPN and ACC were not honest and forthright in their presentation of the GOR and what it would deliver to the membership.
FSU and Clemson along will others will leave based on fraud and breach of the contract and tie this up all the way to the Supreme court while in parallel banking some of the 70 million it’s making in investments to pay a settlement. This will hurt both the ACC and ESPN for years.
A settlement will be reached and the remaining ACC schools will add more of the “whine and cheese” schools and make runs in the roundball tournament
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