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All-In [29046]
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The HUNH rule debate
Feb 20, 2014, 2:27 PM
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OK, I think we can stop rehashing this (though feel free to do what you like).
What I think (hope) we can all agree to:
1) The rule is not truly suggested on any safety basis
2) The offense does have an advantage in being able to determine tempo and thus can limit the time available for the defense to sub
3) Some folks see that as "unfair" others do not
4) Saban is couching his argument in safety because that argument gets popular traction. In fact it is, I believe most would agree, an argument based on his not liking the disadvantage he feels his defense to be in against a HUNH offense.
So the debate really centers on whether the advantage the offense has (or rather the fact that the rules now allow the offense to push the tempo as fast as the ball can be set) is unfair or not. I don't think it even comes close to being unfair, but that is the real argument in my estimation.
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All-In [26968]
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I find myself not caring about this debate.***
Feb 20, 2014, 2:29 PM
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All-In [29046]
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That's cool, to each their own.***
Feb 20, 2014, 2:30 PM
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110%er [5093]
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Great post
Feb 20, 2014, 2:34 PM
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That certainly should set the boundaries for the discussion.
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Expert [1376]
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So....
Feb 20, 2014, 5:40 PM
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You agree the "unfair" suggestion made by you is complete nonsense, and that a defense can substitute if desired?
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All-TigerNet [13057]
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I'm all for keeping things as they are, but i really
Feb 20, 2014, 2:42 PM
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don't want to hear anymore of the "but the defense IS allowed to substitute" argument because it's incredibly stupid. Being "allowed" to do something and it actually being possible are two entirely different things.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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The defense is also allowed to have Dlinemen who aren't...
Feb 20, 2014, 3:17 PM
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extremely overweight.
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All-TigerNet [13057]
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And that's also something that's feasible to do, unlike
Feb 20, 2014, 3:23 PM
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subbing players when teams are snapping the ball with 30 seconds left on play clock.
Unlike the argument, there is some legitimacy to yours. Congrats!
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Hall of Famer [22418]
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It's a solution in search of a problem. There is no debate.
Feb 20, 2014, 2:49 PM
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Saban wants to win a national championship every year. He doesn't want to wait til next year. He wants it now. He knows his team as constructed will beat almost everyone it plays but will struggle with up tempo teams and keep him from winning the championship.
With his recruiting prowess, you would think he could switch to the hunh and really exploit his talent and depth advantage, but that will take time(even for Saban, it might take a year or two  ) to recruit that type of player and implement the system and he doesn't want to wait.
He needed a rule change and he needed it now.
Voila! "Player safety."
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All-In [26211]
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Re: It's a solution in search of a problem. There is no debate.
Feb 20, 2014, 3:00 PM
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It is quite obvious that if Saban knew how to defense the hurry up, we would not be hearing from his majesty. Since he has no clue how to stop it, enact a rule that outlaws it.
Problem solved. Politics works the same way.
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CU Medallion [64708]
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The bottom line is....
Feb 20, 2014, 3:05 PM
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Saban thinks it will be easier for him to get the rule changed than to adjust what he does defensively both from a scheming standpoint and a recruiting standpoint.
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CU Medallion [58647]
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I agree that it's really about Saban not liking the
Feb 20, 2014, 3:10 PM
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disadvantage HUNH causes for his defense, but until he admits that, and as long as he hides behind the "safety" charade, the debate that counts will continue to be about safety, as ludicrous as that may be. Saban has more or less painted himself into a corner here, as I think he'd almost have a better chance winning on fairness as opposed to safety. Obviously Saban chose the safety route so as not to look like a cry baby, but it may have backfired.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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The player safety issue is with the way Nick Saban….
Feb 20, 2014, 3:23 PM
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has too many players overweight. Which leads to more cramps and dehydration, and after their playing days players are more vulnerable to diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease. So maybe the NCAA should start looking into Alabama's S&C practices to get Bama players off of the ribs and pork chops diet.
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Rooter [206]
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My thought is....
Feb 20, 2014, 3:13 PM
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if the guys on a HUNH offense have to be in good enough physical shape as not to need a sub, then why is the defense in a disadvantage. They should be in just as good physical shape in this age of HUNH offenses.
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Enthusiast [103]
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Re: My thought is....
Feb 20, 2014, 4:41 PM
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I feel the same way. If you have a group of athletes on O that are able to run that offense the entire game without changing much between series, then how can the defense not? Maybe Saben and the rest of the whiners need to consider changing their conditioning programs.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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There is no debate. It's just two crybaby coaches who….
Feb 20, 2014, 3:15 PM
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refuse to go away from players who carry too much fat or excess weight.
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Oculus Spirit [94287]
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When the HUNH becomes a system more used than not...
Feb 20, 2014, 4:33 PM
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it will take Bama 3 years to recruit and develop linemen with build and stamina to defend it.
Saban knows that's his death penalty at Bama. There's no way Bama is going to let AU beat them four or five times in a row unless they are rebuilding a defunct program. It's also possible Saban has let the game pass him by.
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110%er [5093]
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I keep seeing this argument
Feb 20, 2014, 5:16 PM
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But what defense with smaller lineman has been neutralized a HUNH?
The only teams that have neutralized have been traditional defenses.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Like Saban's...wait no
Feb 20, 2014, 5:19 PM
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A&M scored points like it was going out of style the last two years.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Your own teams defense….
Feb 20, 2014, 5:28 PM
[ in reply to I keep seeing this argument ] |
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Seriously GEDof09, why are you taking up for Saban, when your team has the style of defense to stop HUNH offenses. SCU's front seven are lean and muscular players who don't carry excess weight, like Alabama's. Sorry but "traditional fat boy defenses" are a thing of the past. And your own team doesn't even run a fat boy defense.
I always knew shamecock fans were complete morons. But GEDof09's defense of his idol Nick Saban tops them all. I guess that what happens when you live off of the glory of other teams in your conference.
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110%er [5093]
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lol
Feb 20, 2014, 5:31 PM
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Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Clearly you don't. Name me the fat boys on your team's...
Feb 20, 2014, 5:35 PM
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defense. You are a complete imbecile. Your team's defense is nothing like Alabama's. Y'all don't have a bunch of fat players on your defense. Just stop it GEDof09. You obviously were dropped on the head when you were a baby by your parents. I'm actually giving your team a compliment by acknowledging that they are keeping up with the times.
But, go ahead GEDof09. Go worship Nick Saban and Alabama, all you want to.
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110%er [5093]
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I just don't understand how you can ignore facts
Feb 20, 2014, 5:40 PM
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So easily.
Their starting NT was 310. One of our starting DTs was 307. We have a backup DT at 315 and one at 318.
You're just making up your own reality.
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Expert [1376]
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"You're just making up your own reality"
Feb 20, 2014, 5:42 PM
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That's rich right there. Are you familiar with the term,"transference"?
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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You're ignoring the facts. I'm not talking about weight...
Feb 20, 2014, 5:44 PM
[ in reply to I just don't understand how you can ignore facts ] |
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I'm talking body fat percentage. You can notice the protruding bellies on Bama's players, I don't see any of your team's defensive players with a bunch of protruding bellies. Your team's back up Dlinemen didn't play that much last year, unless they were subbing for Clowney.
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110%er [5093]
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Uhm, you have no idea how to post a picture, do you?***
Feb 20, 2014, 5:46 PM
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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110%er [5093]
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I just don't understand how you can ignore facts
Feb 20, 2014, 5:41 PM
[ in reply to Clearly you don't. Name me the fat boys on your team's... ] |
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So easily.
Their starting NT was 310. One of our starting DTs was 307. We have a backup DT at 315 and one at 318.
You're just making up your own reality.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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I'm going to have to agree with TigerKing here
Feb 20, 2014, 5:38 PM
[ in reply to lol ] |
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I understand that cheering for Bama gives you a chance to cheer for a team with tradition, but Bama's defense is much bigger than the USCe defense.
Bama D-Line
Starters
DE- 290
NT - 310
DE - 290
Reserves:
DE: 287
NT: 325
DE: 320
Compare that to your defense. Also , you don't have a LB over 230 and they don't have a LB under 230
So, there is that as well.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Come on now, don't confuse a shamecock with facts...
Feb 20, 2014, 5:39 PM
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110%er [5093]
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Of course you would agree with the ridiculous
Feb 20, 2014, 5:44 PM
[ in reply to I'm going to have to agree with TigerKing here ] |
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Yes, we have smaller LBs because we can't recruit well enough to get the elite linebackers. We would gladly take a CJ Mosley.
The same way Vic Beasley is undersized. You didn't go out to recruit a 235 lb defensive end.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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No, but we let a 235 pound player play D-End
Feb 20, 2014, 5:46 PM
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235 isn't big enough to play running back for Saban.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Even showing your ignorance more right there...
Feb 20, 2014, 5:47 PM
[ in reply to Of course you would agree with the ridiculous ] |
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There a number of highly rated DE prospects that come out of high school around 235 and 240. You do know that players easily add weight when going from a HS S&C program to a College S&C program.
And you noticed how effective Vic Beasley was against a HUNH offense in the Orange Bowl, when he was able to get pressure and contain the fast Braxton Miller. Even more proof that fat boy defenses don't work against HUNH.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Like over half the teams in college football use the HUNH...
Feb 20, 2014, 5:24 PM
[ in reply to When the HUNH becomes a system more used than not... ] |
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A good number of teams in the SEC run it to, but you wouldn't know that from the media who spin stories that all the SEC uses is fat boy football.
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CU Guru [1163]
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Re: The HUNH rule debate
Feb 20, 2014, 4:38 PM
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The NCAA only considers rule changes in alternating years... UNLESS the proposal is a health issue. This year is NOT one of the alternating years.
That is another reason the rule change is couched as a health concern.
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Expert [1376]
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I've only seen one person suggesting it's unfair.
Feb 20, 2014, 5:39 PM
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..and obviously he was wrong.
I agree the coaches are hiding behind the safety nonsense, but I don't think their concern is fairness either. Not one coach has said that.
As you mentioned, the hurry up does not prevent a defense from substituting. It merely makes is more difficult. Making it more difficult for the opposing team is fair game.
The issue of the very few coaches stating a concern is solely based on it being more difficult for them. This is is especially true of the guys who run practice everyday in a slow, methodical, and pound it in your face type tempo. Guys like Bielema an Saban. When those few coaches have to practice and play against the hurry up, it strains their systems and makes them uncomfortable.
That's all there is to it. It's not a matter of safety and it's not unfair. It's more difficult, especially for guys who run a system that's a complete inverse of the hurry-up. That's it. It's not really a "debate" at all.
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110%er [5093]
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Hey Thom
Feb 20, 2014, 5:54 PM
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Do you now see why I was calling posters unreasonable?
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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You're the perfect example of being unreasonable...
Feb 20, 2014, 5:57 PM
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You're arguing for a coach that runs a different style of defense than your teams, all because you have to live off of the glory of other teams in your conference. A Clemson fan gives your team a compliment and you still want to make ludicrous arguments.
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Expert [1376]
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Toogs, you cannot possible be dumb enough to believe the BS
Feb 20, 2014, 9:11 PM
[ in reply to Hey Thom ] |
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you type here.
A) It is unreasonable to say the hurry is unfair when it is perfectly within the rules. You are the only coach or fan using that excuse. Do yo enjoy being on that asinine island?
B) It is unreasonable to repeatedly say the hurry up offense prevents defensive substitutions, when that statement is patently false.
C) It is unreasonable to act as if anyone is actually agreeing with the other unreasonable things you've posted. Nobody, not one, has agreed with you. About anything.
D) It is unreasonable to call anyone unreasonable, when your post history, with both this handle and "Toogie", is chock full of being unreasonable.
E) Not including yourself, name 3 posters being "unreasonable" about this subject.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Colin Cowherd talked about this a few months ago
Feb 20, 2014, 6:08 PM
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and addressed Saban's concerns. His response to Saban was to stop whining. Cowherd actually pulled up statistics that he compiled and it showed that teams that run the HUNH offense experience more injuries to the legs. In fact, injuries in HUNH offenses are identical to the same injuries that show up in competitive runners. However, even though leg related injuries are more common, HUNH offenses experience less injuries than traditional, Saban style teams. In fact, Saban-style teams experience two to three times MORE injuries than HUNH teams, and players that play under the Saban strategy are significantly more likely to have problems in later life. The reasoning is because of conditioning. HUNH teams have so much better conditioning than teams like Alabama who have morbidly obese players pushing themselves to the limit in practice and in games.
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