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Religious Pron - Mesopotamia 12 - Babylonia 2(I)
General Boards - Religion & Philosophy
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Religious Pron - Mesopotamia 12 - Babylonia 2(I)


Nov 4, 2022, 1:04 PM
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…..
Getting your head nipped off after losing a fight sucks.


Just put the severed heads over in that pile…

Severed-Heads

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…..
Any head.


And DON’T mix the severed skulls with the severed penises!

R-4

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For Israel, it was extra salt in the wound that their very own kin in Judah helped the Assyrians kill them.
Kissin’ cousins are a lot better than killin’ cousins.



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But not everyone in Israel was beheaded, bejohnsoned, or carted off to Nineveh after Judah’s treachery.
The unskilled labor in the northern Kingdom of Israel got left behind to work the land, and they became known as the Samaritans.


.





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Even before the Assyrian debacle, the Israelites/Samaritans already had a beef with their southern neighbors in Judah.
Ever since Joshua crossed the Jordan, the Samaritans maintained that THEY were the real Jews, faithfully following God’s word, and everyone else was a pretender.
Like no one has ever heard THAT before.
But let’s back up a bit and have a look at why.


Modern folks getting baptized in the Jordan


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If you’ll remember, basic ancient Jewish history took place over 4 periods:

I. Tribes
II. Judges
III. Unified Kingdom
IV. Divided Kingdom



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And, near the end of the Judges period, a rebellious priest named Eli refused to salt his sacrifices. No salt!? That demented sicko.



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Eli rebelled against the official Aaronic line of salt-shaking sacrificers, and set up his own tabernacle at Shiloh. That caused a huge theological dilemma: salt, or no salt?

At the same time, the 12 tribes realized that a confederation, even with heroic Judges like Deborah and Samson, wasn’t enough to protect them with so many foreign enemies around.



…..





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So, right in the middle of a religious schism they decided to go with a strongman and an autocratic form of government.
What could go wrong?






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Just four kings later, the Israelites/Samaritans had reached a breaking point with this “monarchy” thing. They said King Solomon went too far by building his “illegitimate” temple down in Jerusalem. It was a pretty snazzy joint, but it wasn’t what God wanted (according to the Samaritans), and it completed the festering religious rift between north and south.



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Then to top it off, Solomon’s son Rehoboam taxed the Israelite/Samarians to pay for his dad’s false temple.

The north HATED the temple in Jerusalem and that punk priest Eli who started the whole problem way back when. So they sure as hell weren’t going to pay for it.

And that completed the political rift. It was the final straw, and so the 10 northern tribes said “See ya!”



…..





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As it turned out, the Assyrians soon enough eradicated the northern tribes, so they didn’t have to worry about paying for the temple anyway.


Here’s Israel all gobbled up by Assyria, leaving only their southern neighbors to write their history from that point on.
But hey Judah, take a sad song and make it better.


…..





…..
But what about that scoundrel Eli, his church in Shiloh, and Solomon’s fake temple in Jerusalem? What exactly is going on here? And who are the REAL Jews anyway? We’ll take a closer look after the main blurb. Meanwhile, try and decide if these are fake.



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+++++++++++++++++++++++++









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It’s never easy, even in the best of times, to hold a massive empire together. So even though Assyria was the master of the known world, they had, as countries sometimes do, internal problems.



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In the Assyrian’s case, most of their problems seemed to sprout from the city of Babylon.


Babylon’s not much today…






but back then it was an ornery, troublesome metropolis.



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…..
If you’ll remember, Babylon was a pretty old city. It started as just a tiny village back in Akkadia, and it grew, and grew, and grew, over time.
That first Babylon was the “Ba” in our ABaCAB mnemonic.

Akkadia - Gutia - UrIII
Babylonia I
Cassite
Assyria
Babylonia II



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They even had a brief moment of glory under Hammurabi and a few other kings before getting smashed down by the Cassites.
Back then, the Babylonians were pretty nice. But not anymore. Babylonia II are some real bad-axxes.


No more Mr. Nice guy. Nebuchadnezzar has had enough of being pushed around and held down. Look at the fire and rage in those eyes.
Well, I’m sure he looked a lot more fiery and ragey in real life.


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Their Assyrian overlords played it smart, though. After beating Babylon down a few times to little effect, they then tried to placate Babylon and their patron god, Marduk. But Marduk would not be pleased.

The Assyrians even sent high level poo-bahs to attend Babylonian religious festivals. But Marduk would not be pandered to. The Assyrians only thought brutality and darkness was their ally. But Marduk was born in it…molded by it.


Marduk


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Actually, Marduk was known as the “Calf of the Sun”, but whatever. I’m sure he felt dark and ominous. I mean, he owned his own dragon. Is a guy who owns a dragon going to bend the knee to a bunch of Assyrian landlords?


Mushussu, Marduk’s personal dragon.








They even put Mushussu on the city walls.



…..





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And so, over time, Marduk decided he no longer wanted to be just a city god. He wanted to be a REGIONAL god.


Marduk and his pet dragon Mushussu, about to rip shid up. I think those might be lightening bolts in his hands.


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If Assyria’s only problem had been Babylon, they probably could have stomped them down for good. But with enemies on all sides, and lots of other internal woes, Assyria just had too many balls in the air all at once by the end of the 7th century BCE.

So in one of the most spectacular and unexpected crashes in all of recorded history, it all came tumbling down in about 600 BCE.


The Assyrian capitol, Nineveh, burning to the ground.


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…..
Assyria’s collapse was so fast and so unexpected, as empires go, that it’s still a topic of study and speculation today. It’s almost as if the entire structure was just one giant fraudulent house of cards that finally collapsed under its own corruption and deep-seated rot.



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But the push that brought it all down was the resurgence of Babylon II, with a little help from their friends. We’ll take a closer look at how it happened, and the grave consequences for tiny little Judah.

Will the tiny flame of Judaism survive?
Will Christianity even have a chance to be born?
We’ll find out in the next episode.


David and Goliath, or Judah and Babylon? This time, David doesn’t have any stones.


…..















+++++++++++++++++++++++++










…..
And now, back to the Samaritans and the mystery of the “real” Jews.

If you talk to a Samaritan today, they will gladly tell you that long before there was a temple in Jerusalem, the Jews were worshipping on Mount Gerizim, the way God intended. He said it right here in the Bible:


“When you have crossed the Jordan, these tribes shall stand on Mount Gerizim to bless the people…”– Deuteronomy 17:12

And here:


“When the LORD your God has brought you into the land you are entering to possess, you are to proclaim on Mount Gerizim the blessings…”– Deuteronomy 11:29
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…..
Mount Gerazim, the Holiest place on the planet to the left-overs of the 10 Tribes, the Samaritans.


…..





…..
It sounds simple enough. There’s no mention of Jerusalem in any of those verses.
So to this day, the Samaritans claim they’ve got it right, and everyone else has it wrong.






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And everyone else has had it wrong since they first followed Eli to Shiloh, and then David and Solomon to Jerusalem.



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The Samaritans will even tell you that Isaac was nearly sacrificed by Abraham at Mount Gerizim, and not on the Temple Mount down in that pretenderville, Jerusalem.


Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah.
Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.” – Genesis 22:2


That’s the REGION of Moriah, not Mount Moriah, aka Zion and Jerusalem. Here’s the region of Moriah, where Mt. Gerizim is. Mt. Gerizim is in the foreground, Mt. Ebla at upper left, and the capital of the Samaritans, Shechem (Nablus), is at right.


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The Samaritans even have their own Bible. It’s their version of the Jewish Torah. And it’s short. Just the first five books. Anything else is bunk, according to them.





Way.







…..
All the prophets, and all that later stuff, etc., are pretenders and fabrications. God gave Moses the 10 commandments, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy, and that was it. Everything else is man’s corruptions, not God’s words.

It was priests like Eli that changed God’s word, way back in the period of the Judges.
For instance, the 10th commandment actually says:

“You shall set up these stones [altar], which I command you today, on Mt. Gerizim.”


At least, according to them.


An old Samaritan Bible. Practically pocket sized.


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This is the London Polyglot (or, comparative text) that shows the Jewish Bible and the Samaritan Bible, side-by-side.
It’s sort of a religious Rosetta Stone that highlights the differences.



…..





…..
There are about 6000 “tittle” variations, a comma here, a capitalization there, but the Bibles are mostly the same, substantively.
The Samaritans do say Moses had one wife, the Jews say he had two. And God is presented a little more indirectly in the Samaritan text. The Samaritan Bible often says “God’s angels said…” and the Jewish Bible says “God said…” Stuff like that.



…..





…..
But the HUGE difference is the place of worship. Samaritans say God himself chose Mt. Gerizim, and the Jews say God told David to choose Jerusalem.
That’s the big rub, to this day.


The City of David. Solomon’s Temple Mount. West Wall to the left, Dome of the Rock at center, Mount of Olives off to the right.


…..





…..
There is one other interesting difference between the Jewish Orthodox and Samaritan Bibles. In the Jewish (and Christian) Bible, in Deuteronomy 27:4, God tells the Jews to cross the Jordan and build their very first altar in the Promised Land at Mt Ebal. Note the brown triangles below.

“And when you have crossed the Jordan, set up these stones on Mount Ebal…Build there an altar to the LORD your God, an altar of stones.”





Mt. Ebal, at left, with towers


…..





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But the Samaritan condensed, 5-book Bible says:

“…cross the Jordan you shall raise these stones, which I command you today, in mountain Gerizim. And you build there the altar to the LORD God of you. Altar of stones.”


Ruins atop Gerizim then…




And today…


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So where was the very first altar ordered to be built in the Promised Land? On Ebal, or on Gerizim?


When the Dead Sea Scrolls were found in 1946, they gave the remarkable opportunity to read the earliest known copy of Deut 27 and that very verse.
And it matched the Samaritan’s version and God’s order to put the first altar on Mt. Gerazim.

So, until other evidence is found, for that particular verse it would seem that it’s Samaritans 1; Eli, David, and Solomon, 0. Or, maybe God just came to them both in different ways.


The Dead Sea Scrolls. The final judge, so far, on the great first altar debate.


…..

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Something weird going on, all text it hyperlinked


Nov 4, 2022, 4:26 PM
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to some dup-list web site.

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Re: Something weird going on, all text it hyperlinked


Nov 4, 2022, 5:42 PM
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Hmmm. Didn't notice that before but yeah, it does. Not sure what caused it, or how to fix it, but thanks for pointing it out. Weird.

2024 free_orange level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Now Imma gunna read it all! thanks for posting.


Nov 4, 2022, 6:25 PM
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I agree with the posted on the Lunge. Would be great to have these all accessible somewhere. Maybe someone will build a table of links to all of them.

Hint hint hint to you programmer dudes.

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Re: Religious Pron - Mesopotamia 12 - Babylonia 2(I)


Nov 4, 2022, 6:30 PM
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So what you're saying is modern translations of the Bible are wrong and should change the verse to the Samaritan version?

Or have some of them done so?

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Re: Religious Pron - Mesopotamia 12 - Babylonia 2(I)


Nov 4, 2022, 8:10 PM
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Lol well, not exactly. As always, things are a bit more complex than they first seem. There are multiple issues here.

First, as it relates to just this verse, the oldest copy we've FOUND is in the Dead Seas scrolls.
So one might think that the oldest found would be the most accurate. But that's not always the case.

It might not be the oldest, just the oldest found so far. That's why I said "Samaritans 1", for now...

Second, the Dead Sea scrolls were actually written by a minority sect of the Jerusalem Temple, the Essenes (other sects were the Pharisees, kind of the blue collar guys; the Sadducees, sort of the white collar guys; and eventually the Zealots, sort of the camouflage guys who ended up on Masada.)

That's kind of weird in itself...that the Essenes, who lived right outside of Jerusalem in Qumran, would be writing in agreement with the Samaritans up north. Of course, that might explain why they were outside of Jerusalem and were considered a minority sect in the first place, lol.

But what I'm getting at is, how does one know to trust the Essenes? Or to trust some other sect? Or as Festus on Gunsmoke used to say "How do you know who wrote the writing wrote the writing right?"

As I've mentioned before, every text, in every religion, is another man's interpretation of God's message. Unless it comes to you directly, it's filtered through someone else, and so you have to ask "Do I trust them?" Whether it's Moses, or the Buddha, or Joseph Smith.

So "oldest" doesn't mean only, or first, or even correct. It just means that's the earliest we've got, from whomever, for now.

In fact, a lot of newer translations are actually better than old ones, because we have a better understanding of history, or language, or both. For instance, for the longest time we only had the Hebrew version, in the Bible, of the siege of Lachish. Then we found the Taylor Prism and got the Assyrian version. Now, at the time, the Hebrews didn't have the Assyrian version and the Assyrians didn't have the Hebrew version. But we have both. So we have a more complete view, from both sides, than either had from just one side, when it actually occurred.

In terms of language, Hebrew is notoriously vague. Lots of words mean multiple things. Like if I say "Bring the shrimp over here", am I talking 1 shrimp, or many shrimp? And modifiers are hard to translate. Like if I say "Jack and Jill are tall and slim." Do I mean both of them are tall and slim, or Jack is tall and Jill is slim? So translations are really, really tough, and without context, even having the original of something leaves a lot of room for interpretation. So while it might seem that older is closer to the "truth", that's not always the case.

Inerrancy in the Bible is only a big deal if one makes it a big deal, imo. There are about 150 versions of the Bible, I think, and all of them go back to either the Hebrew Bible or the Septuagint, in Greek, as far as I know. So there are bound to be differences. But the overarching message is the same for all - faith. Now, the details will split folks up. And we'll get into a lot of that as we go. That's why there are denominations and sect, lol. Salt or no salt? Leavened bread or unleavened? Infant baptism or adult baptism, on and on and on. But I wouldn't call any of them "wrong."

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Re: Religious Pron - Mesopotamia 12 - Babylonia 2(I)


Nov 5, 2022, 9:49 PM
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I just went pictures, and I'm pretty sure I saw The Temple of Battery World

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Re: Religious Pron - Mesopotamia 12 - Babylonia 2(I)


Nov 8, 2022, 6:30 AM
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My memory of the scripture recalls Rehoboam increasing taxes but not to pay for the temple. He increased taxes on all Israel. I think the temple was paid for as it was built but it's likely that many of the import materials were 'donated,' in that Solomon got the King's discount.

Solomon's income from submissive foreign nations is estimated to be about 29 billion a year. That's from people who took the scripture as literal and applied present day rates to precious metals and other things paid as tax dollars. I'm sure he took taxes from Israel too but the nation was prosperous being the center of the civilized world. Even Egypt paid tax and anyone visiting to hear his wisdom brought tribute.

I don't recall if tribute was part of the calculation of his income.

I'm still looking forward to your coverage of the 400+ years between the Old and New Testament productions.

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Re: Religious Pron - Mesopotamia 12 - Babylonia 2(I)


Nov 8, 2022, 12:07 PM
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>materials were 'donated,' in that Solomon got the King's discount.

Lol yes, I'm sure that was a large part of it. David wanted to build it but was denied permission, so Solomon had men and materials waiting. It's touched on in 2 Chron 8:1-10.

The taxation part is 1 Kings 12, where Reho tells the north he won't "lighten their yoke." Probably because his dad Solomon has also built fortified towns, all manner of civic upgrades and a palace for his EGYPTIAN wife, lol.

At least he didn't let her worship Amun-Ra in the temple, I guess. Yikes.

1 Solomon brought Pharaoh’s daughter up from the City of David to the palace he had built for her, for he said, “My wife must not live in the palace of David king of Israel, because the places the ark of the Lord has entered are holy.”

Plus Sol had those other 1000 women he had to house. If you've ever seen Brigham Young's Beehive House in Salt Lake City you know how much space women can take up. He only had 56 wives and 57 kids.





>I'm still looking forward to your coverage of the 400+ years between the Old and New Testament productions.


It's coming. Babylon 2/Persia will be the last 2 civilizations for a while (till the Greeks), then I'll switch over to the religions themselves and work right on up through them to the "Silent Period", that 400 year gap where the prophets went silent and Jewish orthodoxy set in, right before the birth of Christ.

Some of the more unfamiliar stuff from that time frame are the Books of Maccabees, Jubilee, Enoch, etc. Stuff that didn't make it into the OT for a variety of reasons, but very interesting perspectives and stories nevertheless.

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Imagine 1K of panty hose and bras hanging in the MBath.


Nov 9, 2022, 10:53 AM
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https://babylonbee.com/news/historians-believe-king-solomon-spent-up-to-3-hours-every-day-just-opening-pickle-jars


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Re: Imagine 1K of panty hose and bras hanging in the MBath.


Nov 9, 2022, 7:03 PM
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Now that is HILARIOUS.

There was an HBO series a while back called Big Love with Bill Paxton and a bunch of other stars, including Harry Dean Stanton, about a Mormon with 3 wives. It was a comedy-drama, with most of the comedy coming from the unanticipated down-sides of having multiple wives.

It's worth a binge watch. Mrs. Fordt and I really enjoyed it.

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One wife or two girlfriends is plenty.


Nov 15, 2022, 11:53 AM
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In fact, I had the perfect girlfriend after the children's mother 'runn me oft.' Kim was a darling country girl who looked a lot like that ugly darling chick on Andy Griffin show. She could karaoke one song, Delta Dawn because of practiced voice control and a natural, precious country accent.

She had the perfect job, imo. She worked four days 12 hr shifts one week and 3da, 12 hr shifts the next in constant rotation except for a couple holidays. Every other week she worked through the weekend so I got time off being that she was exhausted by the shift length.

She behaved as if we were exclusive but never really pushed me to any full descriptions of my weekend off from her. I had a Meucci sneaky pete, a Joss MOP inlay which were handmade with 4 true joining points in the handle and not stickers made to look like points, and break shaft for the Joss which all went into one leather carrier case. I had a couple other rare sticks but they were always put away. Who would let those sit in a case when he had every other weekend free?

Mostly I spent the weekends hanging out with my older friend Toy. Toy was a 65 yr old parkinson suffer who could steady his hand a knock a ball in about any pocket on the table. He, another friend his age swapped a 5 dollar bill for years shooting pool.

I moved back to SC from Cleveland, TN and lost contact with Toy. I searched his name on google and saw an article which reported he had been arrested for having a still in his garage and some pot plants in one of the bedrooms.

I worked hard to get over my ex but never have. I really can't imagine have true love for more than one woman. Solomon was one lustful whoremonger, that's coming from one who understand whoremongering well.

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