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Replies: 63
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110%er [6099]
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True or False, if Dabo had recruited the portal we would be
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Sep 25, 2023, 10:20 AM
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undefeated.
I say false. I don't think we lost either game for lack of talent. We lost game because of mistakes - most mental - some mental mistakes by coaching staff ( like not having the play Dabo mentioned "locked") or the prevent defense at end of 1st half.
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Legend [17634]
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This is a slow plodding team against Power 5 competition
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Sep 25, 2023, 10:24 AM
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There is a speed issue at too many positions. Recruiting obviously plays into it whether the players come from high school or the portal. The portal represents a 2nd chance when high school recruiting is subpar.
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110%er [9735]
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You did not answer the question.***
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Sep 25, 2023, 10:27 AM
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All-In [25729]
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Re: This is a slow plodding team against Power 5 competition
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Sep 25, 2023, 10:31 AM
[ in reply to This is a slow plodding team against Power 5 competition ] |
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Why is our HS recruiting subpar? I don't believe it is even close. We don't develop talent. I suppose using the portal could get us talent that has been better developed by better coaches than what we can develop. And that is a sad commentary on the coaching staff. We have consistently for the past 5 yrs. had a top 5-10 recruiting class. That is NOT subpar.
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Orange Blooded [2753]
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Flip the question:
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Sep 25, 2023, 1:22 PM
[ in reply to This is a slow plodding team against Power 5 competition ] |
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Even with the roster Clemson has/has had, could we have won in some of the recent losses **even without** use of the portal, had we simply been a more disciplined team and/or with better in-game coaching decisions?
FSU '23: Certainly.
Duke '23: Yes.
Tenn '22: Debatable, but maybe.
SC: '22: Certainly.
ND: '22: Not as obvious, but I'd say it was at least possible.
We can argue over exactly how big a role the portal should play, but I think the bigger scandal of Dabo's job performance is that we often don't do as well as we could with what we have. How many times the last 2.5 years has Dabo told us how brutal it was to review game film? We are not consistently a clean, disciplined, smart team (either in execution OR in-game coaching decisions). And at the end of those clusterF's, all too often we get is blabbing about how we were "one or two plays away," and "played with a lot of heart" - which may be true, but not necessarily relevant to the question of effective preparedness coaching. It's like I'm having PTSD w/ Tommy Bowden visions - "one or two plays away," "other big name teams lost today," etc., etc.
Not to avoid the original question - would the Tigers be unbeaten w/ some transfers? I'm not sure that can be answered with certainty, given that the Duke game was not close, especially since the offense was pretty darn productive on paper. But even still, I can grant that in all likelihood, shoring up at a few positions, maybe even just WR, would have helped enough that we might have beaten FSU and possibly Duke as well, so yeah, it's possible (though not certain). But I think the far bigger problem is just generally putting an ill-prepared team out there, in regards to clean play, along with inexplicable or questionable coaching decisions and game management. If Dabo wasn't so awful at that, we likely wouldn't be so concerned about the portal.
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Legend [19586]
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True
Sep 25, 2023, 10:24 AM
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Because all this team needs to blow everyone out is a dynamic speedster at WR.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: True
Sep 25, 2023, 1:27 PM
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And how many of those are in the portal?
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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More than zero. Other teams seem to find them***
Sep 25, 2023, 2:49 PM
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: More than zero. Other teams seem to find them***
Sep 26, 2023, 10:55 AM
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Who specifically?
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Legend [19586]
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Re: More than zero. Other teams seem to find them***
Sep 26, 2023, 3:59 PM
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I'll just give you a list of those in the top 30 receiving RIGHT NOW.
Kobe Hudson 4 games 463 yards and 2td
Xavier Weaver 4 games 461 yards 2 tds
Malik Washington 4 games 459 yards 3 td (taken this year by Tony Elliot)
J'aLynn Polk 4 games 427 yards 4 td
Sam Brown 4 games 405 yards
Jamari Thrash 4 games 400 yards 5td
Anthony Simpson 5 games 393 yards 2 td
Andrel Anthony 4 games 371 yards 1td (taken this year by Brent Venables)
Luke McCaffrey 4 games 370 yards 4td
Ricky Pearsall 4 games 362 yards 1td
Jordan Watkins 4 games 347 yards 1td
Lawrence Keys III 4 games 345 yards 3td
Nearly HALF of the top 30 RIGHT NOW are transfers.
And that's just the top 30 WRs right now. This doesn't include Keon Coleman who just beat us single handedly. Or Johnny Wilson who helped. Or Lincoln Victor or Xzavier Henderson and the list goes on.
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Legend [19586]
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A Ton. Your comment leads me to believe that you haven't
Sep 26, 2023, 3:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: True ] |
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looked at the Portal the first time.
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All-In [25729]
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Re: True or False, if Dabo had recruited the portal we would be
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Sep 25, 2023, 10:25 AM
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Can we use the portal to find a few good experienced position coaches?
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All-In [44055]
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I think it depends on who we got and how much they played.
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Sep 25, 2023, 10:27 AM
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A difference maker at WR and another at OL absolutely could've resulted in two more wins.
A reliable kicker would've helped a lot too.
It's not just about talent, but experience. The portal gives us that, but developing through high school recruiting exclusively doesn't necessarily give us that.
Our staff is not good at developing players, and portal players would help overcome that.
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Orange Blooded [4095]
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Re: I think it depends on who we got and how much they played.
Sep 25, 2023, 12:22 PM
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KYS
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CU Guru [1045]
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All-In [44055]
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Its a problem for us because our head coach has made it clear
Sep 25, 2023, 4:21 PM
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that he prefers not to use the portal, and hasn’t really made much of an effort to.
The difference makers are out there every year.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: Its a problem for us because our head coach has made it clear
Sep 26, 2023, 10:56 AM
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No, difference makers aren't out there every year.
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110%er [9735]
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CU Guru [1135]
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Re: True or False, if Dabo had recruited the portal we would be
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Sep 25, 2023, 10:30 AM
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No matter the portal, the turnovers have been on Cade, Mafah and Ship.. no portal player would be fixing those.
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Standout [348]
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Re: True or False, if Dabo had recruited the portal we would be
Sep 25, 2023, 12:52 PM
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Agree. And we wouldn’t look to the portal to replace those 3.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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depends.......
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Sep 25, 2023, 10:37 AM
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are we talking about a TRUE attempt to fill some gaps with a full court press attempt to get 2-3 GAMECHANGERS (ie WR, OL, pick your position)............OR some lazy favor thrown to a great godson's step nephew of a coaching legend who's never going sniff the field of play?
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110%er [6099]
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talking a difference maker - and who out there did we have a
Sep 25, 2023, 10:56 AM
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chance with, that wasn't just doing it for NIL, highest bidder?
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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there's never a chance when you don't try.
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Sep 25, 2023, 10:59 AM
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at this point it's COMMON KNOWLEDGE that Clemson "doesn't portal"........as evidence of the ESPN graphic they flashed during the game when I watched the replay.
we've "ignored" the portal so much, that we've set a precedent with a large portion of a talent resource that EVERYBODY in the country is using.........and using against us.
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All-In [44055]
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Even if NIL was part of their decision, why would that exclude us?
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Sep 25, 2023, 4:24 PM
[ in reply to talking a difference maker - and who out there did we have a ] |
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Don’t we have an entire institute, spearheaded by Dabo, devoted to NIL and player branding?
We’ve had (and currently have) players with national NIL endorsements.
Please stop acting like NIL isn’t a part of Clemson football.
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110%er [6139]
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beside Brown, what real speed/game breakers are
Sep 25, 2023, 10:37 AM
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on the field right now? I don't think any.
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110%er [6099]
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I dont disagree, speed has been issue for while but
Sep 25, 2023, 10:54 AM
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I'm not certain there was one in portal. Now we may have found one in Brown - and perhaps if he stays healthy it will make a difference. You still can't turn ball over, have an inconsistent FG kicker and occasionally go MIA on defense.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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there was one for sure.....he just beat us.***
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Sep 25, 2023, 10:56 AM
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110%er [6099]
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if your talking about Coleman, don't think we had a shot at
Sep 25, 2023, 11:05 AM
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him. FSU recruited him out of highschool and he said he had a relationship with Norvell and FSU's QB.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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again.....we have no shot when we don't try.....
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Sep 25, 2023, 11:15 AM
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Dabo, by most accounts on here is supposedly the "greatest recruiter" in the universe.............if that's true i'm sure he could put his mind to it and do the same/similar with the portal............but he doesn't.
If Riley agreed I'm sure Jordan Hudson would have been an attainable player.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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So Dabo put his mind to it when Coleman was in High School..
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Sep 25, 2023, 1:32 PM
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but didn't get him, but if he puts his mind to it the same/similar when Coleman is in the portal, he gets him?
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110%er [6099]
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We signed 3 WR in 2021 class all rated higher than
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Sep 25, 2023, 2:19 PM
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FSU's Coleman, who was "only" a three star out of high school
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: there was one for sure.....he just beat us.***
Sep 25, 2023, 2:48 PM
[ in reply to there was one for sure.....he just beat us.*** ] |
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People keep saying this, but Coleman is not a gamebreaker. He had 5 catches for 86 yards. He was not getting behind out defense. That would not address the actual problem on our offense.
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Freshman [0]
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Re: there was one for sure.....he just beat us.***
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Sep 25, 2023, 4:17 PM
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What you are neglecting to mention is that Coleman also had 2 TD's. On top of that, an 86 yard receiving day would amount to the 3rd highest receiving yard total for a Clemson WR over the last two seasons (behind Collins vs Charleston Southern, Turner vs UNC). Not saying we had a chance at getting him via the portal, but Coleman is a TD machine. He has 6 TD's in 4 games so far, which is more than any Clemson WR had in the entirety of the 2021 AND 2022 seasons. To not label him as a gamebreaker is just outright false.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: there was one for sure.....he just beat us.***
Sep 26, 2023, 11:06 AM
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No, it's completely true. Coleman did not get behind the defense on either touchdown. The second occurred only after Nate Wiggins got hurt and Coleman was matched up on a backup.
Coleman would not solve our problems. He's not going to stretch the defense, whichbis what we need. We need players who are better than Coleman. We need someone with the abilities of Mike Williams/Sammy Watkins/Tee Higgins/Amari Rodgers/DeAndre Hopkins, etc. If we don't get that level of talent, and more than one of them, it won't solve the problem.
Bottom line, if Keon Coleman was on the team, we would still be 2-2.
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Freshman [0]
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Re: there was one for sure.....he just beat us.***
Sep 26, 2023, 3:17 PM
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I see your point and agree that the talent level isn't there for us. I'm not even saying that we need a Keon Coleman on our team, even though talent-wise he would be the best WR on our team as it currently stands.
Getting behind the defense is not the end-all be-all indicator of a gamebreaker. Mike Williams, Tee Higgins, and Deandre Hopkins weren't known for getting behind the defender either. They were all fantastic route runners and high-point receivers with strong hands which does make them a gamebreaker, in the same way Keon is. Not saying Keon is on their level, but those are the few things that he is really good at. Sammy is the only one you named that was known for taking the top off of a defense.
With your definition of a gamebreaker, would you not consider Renfrow or Humphries as one? Guys who were not known for stretching the defense but were a guaranteed first down machine. Amari Rodgers fits that mold as well. All were great at creating separation with their route running and shiftiness.
I disagree with your last point. If we had Coleman, then he wouldn't be on FSU and we beat them by two scores since he had that type of impact on their bottom line. We'd be 3-1, at worst.
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110%er [6139]
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Re: there was one for sure.....he just beat us.***
Sep 26, 2023, 8:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: there was one for sure.....he just beat us.*** ] |
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Who can consistently win a 50/50 ball on our team? No one that I’m aware of. Coleman would most definitely help our team.
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CU Guru [1685]
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All-In [27193]
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Re: True or False, if Dabo had recruited the portal we would be
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Sep 25, 2023, 10:58 AM
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Impossible to say. The one thing is clear: Dabo's refusal to use the portal is at this point more about hubris and less about need.
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Legend [16263]
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Re: True or False, if Dabo had recruited the portal we would be
Sep 25, 2023, 4:25 PM
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Brown was one of the last kids signed in the '23 class. If Dabo is using the portal like you 'hubris' about he isn't even on our roster today, and our future is less bright.
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Orange Blooded [4791]
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Re: True or False, if Dabo had recruited the portal we would be
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Sep 25, 2023, 11:01 AM
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Don't know how the portal would have prevented fumbles in the backfield, which have leas to some massive returns, and pick 6's.
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Head Coach [768]
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Re: True or False, if Dabo had recruited the portal we would be
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Sep 25, 2023, 11:02 AM
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Just as bad as FSU was in the game saturday...we outplayed them and we played folks who wanted to be at Clemson first...not for the handout!
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Freshman [-98]
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Idiots Is Idiots
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Sep 25, 2023, 11:14 AM
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Dabo once explained this to you fools - see the transfer has to want to go to Clemson. The typical malcontent that enters the portal is a quitter who made a bad choice first go round. These are not the type people that are attracted to Clemson. They want the strip club and hooker environment that Athens provides.
If YOU want that, you should simply change teams. Bandwagon leaves every hour on the hour.
Until Cade matures, we will have to admit that recruiting stars don’t mean much if one tends to choke under pressure. Hopefully he works out of it fast. That uncalled screen at the 1 showed that Cades football IQ is not that high, but he can grow thru it.
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Letterman [283]
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Re: Idiots Is Idiots
Sep 25, 2023, 4:27 PM
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In the past few years, the transfer portal... NIL, has totally changed the way college football is played. It's apples and oranges. Those who go whole hog with what the NCAA is offering. And those who stay in the stars que.
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All-Pro [650]
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Re: True or False, if Dabo had recruited the portal we would be
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Sep 25, 2023, 11:39 AM
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Some facts about the portal.
UGA has fewer portal transfers than Clemson.
Portal transfers have no more a guarantee than the uderperforming player you intend to replace.
There are few to no players in the portal who are getting playing time at quality programs (exceptions for following a coach).
Any player that would jump to Clemson this year would consider a jump to what they consider a better opportunity next year.
If the portal is the answer does this mean Dabo and co. can't recruit and develop players better than they can find on the open market?
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Orange Blooded [3617]
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Re: True or False, if Dabo had recruited the portal we would be
Sep 25, 2023, 12:35 PM
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Re “Any player that would jump to Clemson this year….”
I thought football players were still restricted to the ONE -time transfer plus grad and waiver transfers.
I don’t think it’s unlimited like in other sports.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, because in that case I’d be more in agreement with you.
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Associate AD [840]
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Re: True or False, if Dabo had recruited the portal we would be
Sep 25, 2023, 9:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: True or False, if Dabo had recruited the portal we would be ] |
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Wrong about Georgia having fewer portal transfers. We've had two, and the first was originally at Clemson before going to NW. The second is Tyson who we recruited but he chose Bama instead. There have been another couple who transferred on their own, walked on, and later earned scholarships.
Just since 2020, UGA had
4 in 2020, bunch of quarterbacks
3 in 2021, including the guy Dabo kicked off for a firearm and weed arrest. They don't win the title without him and WV transfer Tykee Smith.
1 in 2022, still on the roster
4 in 2023, Whitehead still there, Boule bounced back out, Thomas still there, Lovett still there
At least 4 on the GA roster now.
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Asst Coach [712]
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Re: True or False, if Dabo had recruited the portal we would be
Sep 25, 2023, 12:04 PM
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Would FSU have beaten Clemson Saturday if they didn’t use the portal?
Yes I think the portal needs to be used to improve weak areas. Not like FSU or some others, but instead handing out scholarships to walk ons, you could have found real help at WR or OL.
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110%er [6099]
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we were over the number of scholarship limit
Sep 25, 2023, 2:14 PM
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so we didn't hand out scholarships to walk-ons until after late transfers.
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Legend [16158]
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When our recruiting wobbled with Tony and Brent's departures
Sep 25, 2023, 2:58 PM
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we back filled our class with several greyshirt/PWO candidates, so they were already there
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CU Guru [1537]
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Re: True or False, if Dabo had recruited the portal we would be
Sep 25, 2023, 12:04 PM
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Depends on who we got from the portal
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All-American [570]
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Better players better coaching, Clemson Football
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Sep 25, 2023, 1:29 PM
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I feel like we have better players than FSU, than Duke so we either lost due to happenstance or coaching. Better players allow for unlucky events and bad coaching decisions.
Transfer portal is lazy analysis that all the network guys have jumped on.
We’ll get it fixed. Trust in the big man to make the hard decisions. He wants it more than anyone else. Think long term not short term.
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Varsity [204]
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Re: True or False, if Dabo had recruited the portal we would be
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Sep 25, 2023, 2:19 PM
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This is a depends answer. If in fact we want to pick the ones that will fit the culture and coach them up, then the answer is false. The problem is our coaches aren't coaching them up IMO.
We have the talent, we have to either coach them up or get better coaches.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: True or False, if Dabo had recruited the portal we would be
Sep 25, 2023, 2:51 PM
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We don't have the talent. Specifically at wide receiver, we have complementary players. We don't have anyone with big play ability. You can't coach Mike Williams's vertical. You can't coach Sammy Watkins's speed. We don't have anyone on the team with these physical abilities.
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Legend [16158]
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How could anybody POSSIBLY know that?***
Sep 25, 2023, 2:53 PM
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Orange Blooded [2753]
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^^^^THIS^^^^^^
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Sep 25, 2023, 2:58 PM
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I will say that I can see the point people are making . . . if we'd shored up at, say, WR maybe we'd be 4-0 or 3-1. I get it. That's reasonable, I'm not denying that as a reasonable possibility. But far more relevant and promising that portal usage would be for Dabo to start fielding teams that are better prepared on special teams and in game/clock management situations, and to get out of certain play-calling ruts.
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Legend [16158]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26449
Joined: 11/18/03
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We just weren't ready to go at Duke, for whatever reason, I
Sep 25, 2023, 3:00 PM
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don't know if a gamebreaker would have helped or not
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Starter [383]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 332
Joined: 7/19/12
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Re: True or False, if Dabo had recruited the portal we would be
Sep 25, 2023, 3:51 PM
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For every player you take from the portal, you lose on scholarship recruit. Who do you delete from this class to get a portal player?
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110%er [6474]
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Posts: 10128
Joined: 11/2/03
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Re: True or False, if Dabo had recruited the portal we would be
1
Sep 25, 2023, 4:18 PM
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If Dabo had used the portal AND hired qualified position coaches, we would be undefeated.
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All-TigerNet [13548]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 8/30/18
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Re: True or False, if Dabo had recruited the portal we would be
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Sep 25, 2023, 4:34 PM
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He could have attracted a lot of best of breed coaches when he had the chance. I still think this might have been the biggest miss. Replacing Scott/Elliot and BV was going to be tough enough, but breaking in newbies proved to be biting off more than he could chew. They are great men but we didn't need coordinators where On the Job training was required.
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110%er [6474]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 11/2/03
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Re: True or False, if Dabo had recruited the portal we would be
Sep 26, 2023, 3:34 PM
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Scott and Elliott were not good. They underperformed with generational talent.
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Orange Blooded [2351]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 2725
Joined: 9/12/04
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Re: True or False, if Dabo had recruited the portal we would be***
Sep 25, 2023, 9:25 PM
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Orange Blooded [2351]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 2725
Joined: 9/12/04
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You just cant look at the portal this way
Sep 25, 2023, 9:28 PM
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The portal is just another resource to be used. It’s new and our opponents use it. And for now we don’t. So that’s a disadvantage. For now. We will start using it sooner or later.
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Orange Blooded [3569]
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Joined: 6/24/11
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Re: True or False, if Dabo had recruited the portal we would be
Sep 25, 2023, 9:40 PM
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There was no one in the portal that wanted to look Clemsons way that could contribute. Between Deion and Norvell that well was pretty dry imo.
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Orange Blooded [4036]
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Joined: 1/3/14
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Re: True or False, if Dabo had recruited the portal we would be
Sep 26, 2023, 2:42 AM
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If Alabama could not stay on top using the portal, it is unlikely we could do any better. We are outgunned in the financial department. FL, TX, and CA teams will dominate for the foreseeable future.
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