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Orange Blooded [4036]
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The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
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Mar 31, 2024, 9:08 AM
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That’s the question that Neff must decide. 14 years of not winning ACC regular season or tournament. Most finishing well off the lead and not making it out of first round. Losing to really bad teams while winning against some good ones. Getting to the nit and being beaten by a horrible team (at home).
This run was nice for sure. But surrounded by finishing 6th in ACC (and Brad supporters happy with that). Losing by 21 and never being in the game against Boston College. Then beating a good Baylor team.
Consistency is not a Brad thing.
Do we have the corner turned or is this just a special group with good chemistry?
Chase, PJ, Clark, Girard, Alex H, Bas all gone.
Do we think, Ian, Godfrey, Josh, Dillon, Wiggins have the talent to repeat?
Are we as a fan base - happy with 6th place finishes?
Are we happy with a good run every 7-14 years?
Is that our ceiling?
If we want more, then Neff needs to make a move.
If we are ok with 14 more years like the last 14 - then Brad is our guy.
Will Neff make a move? Highly unlikely when you add recency bias. Brads fan club will point to these three games (all good wins) and try and make Brad as an excellent coach when just looking at those games. Unfortunately, the data set is 14 years and we know what Brad is and is not.
Is 6th good enough for ACC? Is making the tournament every 4-6 years good enough?
Are you willing to risk our 6th place finish and make an effort to win with the possibility that we might get worse?
Personally, I appreciate the tournament run, the 6th place finish - but would give someone else a chance. 14 years is a long time without winning.
Who do we get? Does it matter? Not really. If they are charismatic, communicative - they will engage the fan base. That’s a start. Then the most important thing - can he/she recruit?
What say you?
Happy Easter! He has Risen!
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Orange Blooded [2218]
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Time to move on. 14 years is enough.*********
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Mar 31, 2024, 9:11 AM
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110%er [8078]
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Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
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Mar 31, 2024, 9:20 AM
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I think the way to sum it up is that Brad has become confident in his own skin. He has heard a lot of negative over the years, probably doubted himself at times. Probably felt like he didn’t have anything to lose. I’m really happy for the guy. I’m sure he cares more about Clemson basketball and his players than anyone and finally said, “I’m putting the blinders on and don’t care what anybody says or does, I’m going to go out and coach the way I know how to coach, be myself and let the chips fall where they may.” Brad’s a good coach!
Message was edited by: baker5801®
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110%er [7034]
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Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
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Mar 31, 2024, 9:22 AM
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Anomaly
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All-In [30841]
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I say we give the team a break for at least a week
Mar 31, 2024, 9:23 AM
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No1 is hurting now than they are.
Let's get them home and show solidarity for at least a few days.
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All-American [595]
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Re: I say we give the team a break for at least a week
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Mar 31, 2024, 9:27 AM
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I reject the "obvious question". It's a lunatic fringe question that got their pride hurt last night and would be saying it if we had beaten Bama and UConn and lost by 1 in OT to Purdue. Natty or bust! Clowns.
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Orange Blooded [4036]
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You make me laugh with the lunatic fringe mantra.
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Mar 31, 2024, 9:47 AM
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Trying to make it sound like it is a small group. You are incorrect. The fringe are those that supported him after each year. The majority have thought for years he should have been replaced.
Do better.
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110%er [6982]
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Re: You make me laugh with the lunatic fringe mantra.
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Mar 31, 2024, 10:17 AM
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This is right. Out of the dozens of Clemson fans I communicate with, only one wanted Brownell for the last 5-7 years, and he’s the type of guy who resists change just to resist it. We’d still have Hatfield if it were up to him.
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Orange Blooded [4976]
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Re: You make me laugh with the lunatic fringe mantra.
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Mar 31, 2024, 3:51 PM
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There is no comparison between Hatfirld and Brownellto to be made. Ford had a dynasty in the making. OP had s few good years using athletes in gimmick defense with with no basketball skills or IQ. We were headed down in a big way when he left. Brownell walked into that shart storm.
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110%er [8036]
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Re: You make me laugh with the lunatic fringe mantra.
Mar 31, 2024, 8:35 PM
[ in reply to You make me laugh with the lunatic fringe mantra. ] |
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Trying to make it sound like it is a small group. You are incorrect. The fringe are those that supported him after each year. The majority have thought for years he should have been replaced.
Do better.
The LF are the delusional haters of the world. They make statements like Brad has not won the ACC regular season or tournament in 14 years as if we had won either before his arrival.
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Orange Blooded [4036]
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Re: You make me laugh with the lunatic fringe mantra.
Apr 1, 2024, 8:38 AM
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lol, clown response. People that are tired of being happy with 6th place ACC finish are not haters. We strive for better. You apologists simply bring up the past just to hide the present. 14 years - please explain all the many positive things Brad has done and explain why he has shown the ability to get us to the next level. You can’t. Not sure why you guys are so adamant that he can do so, when 14 years show he has not. The majority of fans don’t hate Brad, they are just tired of the same and not winning. 6th place ACC finishes are nothing to be excited about.
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110%er [8036]
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Re: You make me laugh with the lunatic fringe mantra.
Apr 1, 2024, 9:44 AM
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lol, clown response. People that are tired of being happy with 6th place ACC finish are not haters. We strive for better. You apologists simply bring up the past just to hide the present. 14 years - please explain all the many positive things Brad has done and explain why he has shown the ability to get us to the next level. You can’t. Not sure why you guys are so adamant that he can do so, when 14 years show he has not. The majority of fans don’t hate Brad, they are just tired of the same and not winning. 6th place ACC finishes are nothing to be excited about.
Must be terrible to be disappointed at everything. BTW a few things have changed in the 14 years with the result being two 20+ win seasons but doubt you want to admit anything which does not support your tired, empty narrative
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110%er [6982]
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Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
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Mar 31, 2024, 9:36 AM
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Neff’s hands are tied. You can’t fire a coach who just went to the Elite 8. Brad will be retained and extended. If we do nothing over the next 3-4 years, then perhaps he’ll be let go
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Trainer [39]
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Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
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Mar 31, 2024, 9:37 AM
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You absolutely can fire him.
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All-In [40100]
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Ive been one of the biggest critics of Brad Brownell,
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Mar 31, 2024, 9:41 AM
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But no, no you can’t.
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Legend [18798]
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Orange Blooded [4596]
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Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
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Mar 31, 2024, 10:55 AM
[ in reply to Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly? ] |
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"Under Leggett, the Tigers reached the College World Series six times.[2] As of the end of the 2012 season, he had a career record of 1,224–694–1, with seven conference tournament titles and 23 NCAA tournament appearances. He was named Atlantic Coast Conference Baseball Coach of the year in 1994, 1995 and 2006.[3] In 1994, his team won 57 games, a record for the second most single-season wins in ACC history (behind the record 60 wins set by the 1991 Clemson team).
But HE got fired, while Brownell coasts along.
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All-In [25015]
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Legged was let go after a 3 year down turn
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Mar 31, 2024, 11:52 AM
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Where we lost in regionals, often in embarrassing fashion (18-1 loss to Oregon). He was not fired right after a CWS appearance
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Legend [16930]
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Re: Legged was let go after a 3 year down turn
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Mar 31, 2024, 12:29 PM
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He was also let go immediately before the opening of new facilities. The same opportunity that Brownell was given a lease on life to see through and then given six additional seasons to show this eventual return. None of which is to say I think Brad should or will be fired but Leggett is an object lesson in what not to do. He had one year left on his contract. If that season had gone south he probably would have assisted in bringing someone like Bakich into the program.
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Orange Blooded [4596]
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Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
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Mar 31, 2024, 9:39 AM
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It took Scott Drew years at Baylor to win a natty with all sorts of anomaly.
No matter. Its a silly discussion because Clemson rightfully isn't firing an elite eight coach.
Support the team and stop with the unnecessary questions.
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Legend [16930]
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Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
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Mar 31, 2024, 10:57 AM
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Brad Brownell does not compare favorably to Scott Drew. Drew was a second year head coach who took over a program in shambles and on probation. Brad was in his ninth year taking over a program that had been to 3 straight tourneys. In 14 seasons Brad has been to 4 tourneys winning 2 round of 64 games, two round of 32 games, and one Sweet Sixteen games. In his first 14 seasons Drew made 7 tourneys, won 5 round of 64 games, won 4 round of 32 games, and two Sweet Sixteen games. This was after starting with 4 consecutive losing seasons repairing the damage done at Baylor. In the decade after, he only missed the post season once and in his two NIT appearances made the final both times, winning one. It takes that level of consistency to eventually punch though and win one.
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110%er [5066]
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Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
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Mar 31, 2024, 9:40 AM
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No one has any idea what is going on behind the scenes in the recruiting and portal games. Firing Brownell at this point would set this program back significantly...Clemson does not have the program pedigree to do such a bold move...Programs like Kentucky, Duke, or UNC can most definitely make these types of moves and quickly rebuild or maintain their program without missing a beat. Personally, I am ok with Brownell remaining our coach. The way he addresses the team needs via the portal has been very good. He is on to something with this.
Message was edited by: jsebe10®
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Orange Blooded [4976]
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Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
Mar 31, 2024, 3:54 PM
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He's also got a heck of a PG coming in from HS next season
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All-In [30461]
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We all know that it is, and history shows that it is an anomaly, however
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Mar 31, 2024, 10:30 AM
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You can’t get rid of a coach you just took your team to the elite eight regardless of 14 years of ACC failure and pathetic postseason record. You give him a small extension two years tops you give them a small raise and you reduce the buyout. Let him prove that this wasn’t an anomaly. But if next year we are back to the NIT or no NCAA, then that’s all we need this is anomaly and he cannot consistently make us a championship caliber program.
Now some people might be extremely happy and think that any elite eight every couple of decades, and NCAA win every five years and no ACC titles ever enough. I disagree and think Clemson can do better.
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Orange Blooded [4596]
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Re: We all know that it is, and history shows that it is an anomaly, however
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Mar 31, 2024, 11:08 AM
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Gonna go with anomaly.
At a "football school"...
2019–20 Alabama 16–15 8–10 9th
2020–21 Alabama 26–7 16–2 1st NCAA Division I Sweet 16 (*)
2021–22 Alabama 19–14 9–9 T–5th NCAA Division I Round of 64
2022–23 Alabama 31–6 16–2 1st NCAA Division I Sweet 16 (*)
2023–24 Alabama 25–11 13–5 T–2nd NCAA Division I
Alabama: 117–53 (.688) 62–28 (.689)
That's 4 consecutive trips to NCAAT in 5 years at the program, two Sweet 16s, plus one Final Four not shown above as wikipedia not updated (First Final Four in school history). (*) Also won the SEC regular season AND tournament the two years shown there.
Brownell's journey not at all similar:
2010–11 Clemson 22–12 9–7 T–4th NCAA Division I Round of 64
2011–12 Clemson 16–15 8–8 7th
2012–13 Clemson 13–18 5–13 11th
2013–14 Clemson 23–13 10–8 6th NIT Semifinal
2014–15 Clemson 16–15 8–10 T–9th
2015–16 Clemson 17–14 10–8 T–7th
2016–17 Clemson 17–16 6–12 12th NIT First Round
2017–18 Clemson 25–10 11–7 T–3rd NCAA Division I Sweet 16
2018–19 Clemson 20–14 9–9 T–8th NIT Second Round
2019–20 Clemson 16–15 9–11 9th Postseason Cancelled
2020–21 Clemson 16–8 10–6 T–5th NCAA Division I Round of 64
2021–22 Clemson 17–16 8–12 10th
2022–23 Clemson 23–11 14–6 T–3rd NIT First Round
2023–24 Clemson 24–12 11–9 T–5th NCAA Division I Elite Eight
Clemson: 265–189 (.584) 128–126 (.504)
It's not wrong for Clemson fans to wish for a coach with results more like Oakes and less like Brownell.
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Orange Blooded [2514]
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Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
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Mar 31, 2024, 10:56 AM
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I think it comes down to talent. Even the great Dean Smith took 20 years to win his first National Championship.
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Legend [16930]
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Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
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Mar 31, 2024, 11:07 AM
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Extreme false equivalency. Dean Smith made the Final Four in the conference champs only era in his sixth season. By season 14 he was a five time regular season champ, five time conference tournament champ, had won an NIT championship, and had made the Final Four four times. He had won 12 NCAA tourney games by the end of season 14. Brad stands at 6.
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Orange Blooded [2514]
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Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
Mar 31, 2024, 11:19 AM
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He had some rough years to start. Then he did get going, but even in between he had just some okay years. It is an extreme difference, but if you have the talent you get it done. When he did win it and only lost 2 games he had MJ, Worthy, and Sam Perkins. We never have the consistent talent, so who knows about the coaching? You get the pieces in place and anything can happen. Will we ever?
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Orange Blooded [4596]
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Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
Mar 31, 2024, 1:18 PM
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Recruiting talent is part of the coach's job, isn't it?
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Orange Blooded [2514]
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Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
Mar 31, 2024, 2:06 PM
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Obviously. Hopefully we do well in the new NIL world too.
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CU Guru [1639]
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Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
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Mar 31, 2024, 11:02 AM
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You are out of your mind to think an elite 8 coach will get fired. Brad is staying and I think he has done very well. Get on the bus.
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Orange Blooded [4036]
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Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
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Mar 31, 2024, 11:35 AM
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Not trying to argue, but what are you referring to when you say he has done “very well”? I don’t think he will be removed, I just question why there is a faction that support him doing almost nothing at Clemson. This was a good year, for sure.
But what inspires you to believe he can repeat it on a regular basis?. (I don’t expect every year).
14 years of data does not support a trend line that is positive.
Again, I really want to hear your thoughts. Maybe I am missing something.
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CU Guru [1959]
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Re: He reverted back to old Brad with 8 minutes left in the first half.***
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Mar 31, 2024, 11:22 AM
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Legend [16930]
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Re: He reverted back to old Brad with 8 minutes left in the first half.***
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Mar 31, 2024, 11:56 AM
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I put it around the 5 minute mark of the first half. It wasn’t the missed free throws (though they could have kept us in it) that killed us. It was the absolute refusal to adjust to the corner 3 pointer from Alabama that killed us. They hit 9 three pointers from the corner at, I believe, a 75% pace. Maybe 2 made were adequately guarded. They quickly figured out how to collapse our zone and create wide open shots over and over again. And it continued well into the second half. And we went stagnant on offense when we stopped moving the ball inside. The high low game with Schieffelin down low was dominating and all of a sudden we’re running JGIII on back door cuts with Schieff at the top of the key. Just an absurd stretch of time in the game.
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Heisman Winner [111751]
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Re: He reverted back to old Brad with 8 minutes left in the first half.***
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Mar 31, 2024, 12:33 PM
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we were attempting to run back door with Girard the entire night, it was almost comical at the end cause he knew he was not getting the ball, but they kept running it.
At the end of the Day, Bama is loaded with top 100 players, 3 5 stars and 5 5 stars in the last 3 classes, plus that transfer Sears who just shot the roof off the place last night. A few missed free throws, and a couple of bad bounces for Bama and we are in that game.
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CU Guru [1893]
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Re: He reverted back to old Brad with 8 minutes left in the first half.***
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Mar 31, 2024, 5:50 PM
[ in reply to Re: He reverted back to old Brad with 8 minutes left in the first half.*** ] |
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Going to the zone defense after Hall's 3rd foul was a big mistake. Anomaly. 4 NCAA appearances in 14 seasons. Hadn't won an a NCAAT game since 2018. Can't win more than one ACCT game each year.
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110%er [6692]
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Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
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Mar 31, 2024, 11:24 AM
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A couple of things:
- He’s won twice in Chaoel Hole, something no Clemson coach has done
- No other Clemson coach has won a conference tourney
- How many other Clemson coaches boast a Sweet 16 and an Elite 8?
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CU Guru [1959]
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Re: Yes, after Dean Smith retired and Carolina was down.***
Apr 1, 2024, 8:59 AM
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Letterman [291]
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Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
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Mar 31, 2024, 12:46 PM
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I've said it before but I don't think it's really fair to judge Brownell on all 14 years. It was only about 4 years ago that we finally finished updating Littlejohn to give him better facilities. It was only 2 years ago that Neff took over and started allocating more money to the program so that we could actually get and keep great assistant coaches. The most accurate way to judge Brad would be on the last couple of years.
The NIT loss last year was certainly disappointing but overall it was a better year than expected. This year was phenomenal. You can point out that we lost to BC in the acc tourney but that doesn't mean it wasn't a phenomenal year. We far exceeded expectations.
You absolutely can't fire Brownell after taking us to the Elite 8. We wouldn't be able to find a decent coach who would want to take the job after that. You have to extend, hopefully with a small buyout and focus on what happens with recruiting from here. If Brad can come up with some big transfers and some more big recruits then we should feel great about the job he is doing in the very short period of time that he has had the resources to do it properly.
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Legend [16930]
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Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
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Mar 31, 2024, 1:42 PM
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The “new” Littlejohn was completed 7 1/2 years ago. The first full season in it was the last Sweet Sixteen appearance. The great assistant coaches he went out and hired with his new money were literally his assistants from UNC-W. I don’t believe for a second he couldn’t have gotten the money to bring them on board at any time. Not calling for him to be fired. But the idea that he should only be evaluated since the last two seasons is ridiculous. He had what he needed, had the new advantage of a Sweet Sixteen appearance (similar to the boost everyone acts like we should get now) and he went stagnant for 5 years.
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Head Coach [771]
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Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
Mar 31, 2024, 1:42 PM
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Don't think you just learn coaching overnight...you is or you aint...proven game plans work in coaching...some is adjusting your game plan to fit your talent or training your personnel to utilize fundamentals! Brad did not come upon that formula last month!
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110%er [8545]
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Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
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Mar 31, 2024, 1:50 PM
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Wow, you took all that time to say you know about basketball, have been athletic enough to play basketball and do not like Brad Brownell. Thankfully. I only read the first sentence and knew all I needed to know.
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Asst Coach [746]
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Maybe we should hire
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Mar 31, 2024, 5:27 PM
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Some of you geniuses…..sheesh…..
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CU Guru [1773]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 1541
Joined: 11/27/22
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Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
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Mar 31, 2024, 5:30 PM
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You are a fool if you think there is even a chance he is fired....great year overall!
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All-TigerNet [10906]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12989
Joined: 8/4/14
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The ONLY way Brownell doesn't return is if he takes another job somewhere!***
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Mar 31, 2024, 5:54 PM
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All-American [593]
TigerPulse: 85%
Posts: 729
Joined: 4/10/18
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Re: The ONLY way Brownell doesn't return is if he takes another job somewhere!***
Mar 31, 2024, 8:14 PM
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Here’s hoping!
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Scout Team [153]
TigerPulse: 65%
Posts: 254
Joined: 4/16/16
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Re: The obvious question. Did Brad finally learn coaching or is this an anomaly?
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Mar 31, 2024, 8:50 PM
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It will be the same old story if we keep him. We need someone to get us to the next level and be consistent instead of once every four or five years.
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