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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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Should laws with no clear victims be prosecuted?
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Mar 24, 2024, 4:07 PM
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No DUI's that don't result in accidents and other people, no speeding tickets, no drug laws, no expired fire extinguishers, prostitution, none of those.
Interesting concept. What do you think?
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Lot o points [155945]
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Im guessing youd be for the fire extinguisher one.***
Mar 24, 2024, 4:14 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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It was a victimless crime, that I've ben paying for over the last 23 years
Mar 25, 2024, 9:45 AM
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any time I submit a job application. Which recently, has been often.
Should I still be paying the punishment for it?
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All-TigerNet [13147]
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Yall still got Ma-a-lago at $18M?***
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Mar 24, 2024, 4:18 PM
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110%er [7208]
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Maybe Trump can use a home equity loan to pay his bond.***
Oct 29, 2020, 8:32 AM
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Hall of Famer [24099]
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Re: Yall still got Ma-a-lago at $18M?***
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Mar 24, 2024, 5:04 PM
[ in reply to Yall still got Ma-a-lago at $18M?*** ] |
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Well, I mean we are talking about people who believe Letitia James' lawsuit was non political.
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Legend [18026]
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and others that don't know when the case even started
Mar 24, 2024, 5:13 PM
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or think it was a "victimless" crime.
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Hall of Famer [24809]
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Or that the statutes had expired on over 80% of the charges... Please "name"
Mar 24, 2024, 5:18 PM
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THE victim.
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Legend [18026]
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Hall of Famer [24099]
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Legend [18026]
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Beat of the drum must never stop***
Mar 24, 2024, 5:43 PM
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Hall of Famer [24099]
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Re: Beat of the drum must never stop***
Mar 24, 2024, 6:26 PM
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Sorry, it's just funny to me that there are people who believe this type of thing.
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Commissioner [979]
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Re: Beat of the drum must never stop***
Mar 24, 2024, 6:32 PM
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mother of all irony
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Hall of Famer [24099]
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Re: Beat of the drum must never stop***
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Mar 24, 2024, 6:35 PM
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Oh, I have no doubt that you believe that lawsuit had nothing to do with politics.
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Legend [18026]
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If we say it had something to do with politics, does that make him less guilty?***
Mar 24, 2024, 9:36 PM
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Hall of Famer [24099]
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Re: If we say it had something to do with politics, does that make him less guilty?***
Mar 24, 2024, 11:26 PM
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Nope, but at least you would be closer to what is going on. Now, if you said the lawsuit was brought for political reasons, then you would be right.
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Legend [18026]
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So, let's compromise here...
Mar 25, 2024, 1:55 AM
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A case involving then sitting President Donald Trump was started when his personal fixer, Michael Cohen, came forward about some seedy accounting practices. Letitia James brought the case because she wanted to "get" Donald Trump to help her career/political reasons. Donald Trump is guilty of fraud as proven and agreed by both of us here.
Does that cover it?
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Hall of Famer [24099]
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Re: So, let's compromise here...
Mar 25, 2024, 8:19 AM
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I haven't read through the details of the judge's ruling, but that's probably pretty close. Look man, Trump is a scumbag, and I think there is evidence that he has screwed over some people in business throughout his career. But, this idea that James brought this case because she wanted to protect banks or the financial system is absurd.
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All-In [42196]
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Does it matter the motive for bringing the case...
Mar 25, 2024, 8:24 AM
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If the accused actually did commit wrongdoing?
If I report you for something at work simply because I have a grudge against you, but you actually did do something that's against company policy, do you think HR cares about my motive?
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Hall of Famer [24099]
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Re: Does it matter the motive for bringing the case...
Mar 25, 2024, 8:36 AM
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I think motive is really important here, especially when you look at this through the overall lens of a political party seemingly trying to bring down what was the leading candidate and now nominee of an opposition party through 1000 cuts of the legal system and in some cases outright trying to suspend the democratic process to stop him from being elected.
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All-In [42196]
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But I ask again...
Mar 25, 2024, 9:40 AM
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If he committed the wrongdoing, shouldn't he be punished for it? They couldn't do it when he was president so they had to wait afterwards.
As has been pointed out before, he brought this upon himself with who he entrusted and then burned.
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Lot o points [155945]
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Flip the question
Mar 25, 2024, 9:44 AM
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Is it your contention that all other major members of the political class are lawsuit free because their all of their activities cross every T and dot every i?
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All-In [42196]
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No.***
Mar 25, 2024, 9:50 AM
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Lot o points [155945]
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So if deep dives into their every potential
Mar 25, 2024, 9:53 AM
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Wrongdoing, whether egregious or technicalities, becomes the norm as an election tactic, is that a positive development?
This is the gist of why I (and I assume P6) are saying the “why” matters here as much as the “what”
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All-In [42196]
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Actually, if it uncovers wrongdoing, then yes.
Mar 25, 2024, 9:56 AM
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We have an accountability problem in America right now, and it's being embraced pretty strongly by millennials and Gen Z. Trump has been a poster child the last few years for not being held accountable for wrongdoing and behavior. When people see that behavior go unchecked with leaders, they think they can act that way as well.
Maybe it's time some more lessons are taught about what happens when you commit wrongdoing regardless of your prominence or power.
Do you feel Trump shouldn't be held accountable for wrongdoing simply due to timing or possibly political motivation?
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Lot o points [155945]
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I am fine with him being held accountable.
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Mar 25, 2024, 10:01 AM
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I’m just saying either they all should be or none should be. This conveniently selective prosecution crap is what stinks.
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All-In [42196]
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I absolutely agree they all should be. Let's hope this starts a trend.***
Mar 25, 2024, 10:03 AM
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Lot o points [155945]
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It wont.
Mar 25, 2024, 10:15 AM
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And that’s the problem. The club will continue to take care of members of the club.
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All-In [42196]
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Oh well.
Mar 25, 2024, 10:16 AM
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But hey, at least they nailed one crooked POS ### hole.
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Lot o points [155945]
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Oh yeah, they got one thats easy to hate.
Mar 25, 2024, 10:18 AM
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It’ll really be fun though eventually when they do the same thing to an a-hole you like.
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All-In [42196]
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Yes, yes
Mar 25, 2024, 10:21 AM
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If they get Trump, they'll get us! Heh.
Trump's a crook and a criminal who has skirted the law too many times. Hopefully this ruling is the least of his problems, and hopefully we see him behind bars soon.
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Lot o points [155945]
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Youre being incredibly myopic if you think thats an impossibility.
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Mar 25, 2024, 10:25 AM
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This state/local DA attack from all sides is a brand new page in the political playbook.
Maybe Trump deserved some or even all of it, but you’re high if you think that the political establishment will mothball this tactic once Trump is out or the picture. It absolutely will get used against someone you support in your lifetime.
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All-In [42196]
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Well, when it does
Mar 25, 2024, 10:29 AM
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You can drop the big "Told ya so" on me. Until then, I'm pretty skeptical. I think one of the biggest POS in our nation is getting his come uppance--finally.
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Lot o points [155945]
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*bookmarked*
Mar 25, 2024, 10:31 AM
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Can’t wait until the big 2048 election to bring this one out.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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Lot o points [155945]
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Being optimistic with my assets in the pursuit of securing a loan?
Mar 25, 2024, 10:00 AM
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Clearly different orders of magnitude, but I’d say I HAVE gotten away with this, and you likely have too.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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I don't think so
Mar 25, 2024, 10:32 AM
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The only thing that would even be near that for me would be buying a house. The last 4 houses I've bought were post 2008, and all of those loan process resembled financial colonoscopies. There was never even the possibility of juicing up what something was worth in order to secure a loan for it.
In fact, I don't think I was ever involved with that process aside from just paying for the assessment.
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Lot o points [155945]
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Youve never gotten any unverified and unsecured credit?
Mar 25, 2024, 10:36 AM
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Jeez, every mortgage I got from 99 until 2008 was at least half unverified. I’m not saying I was some giant con artist, but If your 401k had $814,832 in it and you put $815k on the application, you were guilty of this.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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Not that I am aware.
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Mar 25, 2024, 10:46 AM
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I've owned 6 houses, 4 of which were purchased post 2008. Those loans necessitated copies of my w-2's, so there was no lying about them.
I don't recall exaggerating for the first two either, because at the time there was no reason to. I used to follow the Dave Ramsey 20 year loan, no more than a 1/4 of salary thing for payments (which in retrospect was dumb, because if I had bought more house, it would have appreciated at a greater rate). So the houses were uh...economical.
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Hall of Famer [24099]
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Re: But I ask again...
Mar 25, 2024, 10:40 AM
[ in reply to But I ask again... ] |
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I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished if he broke the law, and it appears he did. I'm just saying that this whole idea that NY was trying to protect the secondary mortgage market or any other part of the financial system is complete and utter nonsense. Dude's been doing business in NYC for half a century, seems like NY would have been concerned about protecting their citizens a long time ago. Of course he was lining the right pockets at one time, so no one wanted to take a real look. And, he didn't all of a sudden become high profile (especially in NY) when he became President.
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All-In [42196]
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Re: But I ask again...
Mar 25, 2024, 3:59 PM
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That's fair; I won't argue with you on all of that. But hey, he decided he wanted to be a complete POS president and burn bridges with all the other crooks he employed. If you want to go that route, better make sure that house is in order.
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All-In [31907]
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All-TigerNet [12592]
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Message removed by Author
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Mar 24, 2024, 5:23 PM
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Message removed by Author
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Commissioner [979]
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Re: Should laws with no clear victims be prosecuted?
Mar 24, 2024, 5:39 PM
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>However, the difference between a victimless DUI and one that results in injuries or death is often nothing more than luck.
Exactly
>The guy that got 10 years for killing my brother in law and amputating my sister in law’s leg above the knee in a boating “accident” certainly had no intention of hurting anyone. He’s no different than many who drink and drive or boat and drive.
Yikes. I'm sorry to hear that
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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Isn't that what most laws do?
Mar 25, 2024, 9:37 AM
[ in reply to Message removed by Author ] |
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Lifelong tickets for expired fire extinguisher violations are to protect me from a fire, I guess. DUI is punished so you won't go do it again.
Trump being fined for his "accounting errors" is to keep others from doing it again. I'm guessing that was also a choice to do, correct?
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Letterman [294]
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That is the very argument used by
Mar 24, 2024, 5:33 PM
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some of the defendants caught soliciting minors over the internet and it turned out to be cops on the other end.
“No victims! Who was the victim!”
Not surprised Trumpist sociopaths are using the same defense and have no concept of the importance of intent.
Like most other instances, they’re probably just repeating Trump’s idiocy to get a reaction out of people. Not worth trying to engage in an honest debate because they’re incapable of it.
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CU Medallion [60043]
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Its a crime against the state.
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Mar 24, 2024, 5:34 PM
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Not hard to comprehend
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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So should it be punished?***
Mar 25, 2024, 9:38 AM
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All-In [34598]
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Two entities engage in a business deal. Both are happy and satisfied.
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Mar 24, 2024, 6:18 PM
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What's wrong with this picture? Two levels of justice in this country will not work.
Easy question: How many times has the State of NY sued another person/business for the same "crime"?
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Orange Blooded [4789]
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Re: Two entities engage in a business deal. Both are happy and satisfied.
Mar 24, 2024, 9:01 PM
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Better be careful or you'll get called a sociopath by the basement swelling burner accounts.
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All-In [31907]
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Serious question...did you take the time to read the ruling?...
Mar 25, 2024, 7:57 AM
[ in reply to Two entities engage in a business deal. Both are happy and satisfied. ] |
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if you read the ruling and came away with those questions, then fine.
But, hard to believe anyone could read that ruling and not know that that line of reasoning (in your post) is flawed.
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All-TigerNet [13147]
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Lots of victims of illegal immigrants. Gonna start prosecuting?***
Mar 24, 2024, 9:18 PM
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All-In [42196]
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I know why you're posting this
Mar 25, 2024, 7:45 AM
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Because of the argument Trumpkins have made about his NY ruling and his finances.
But you have to remember, that's not really why they oppose it. They only oppose it because Trump is their "victim". He can do no wrong in their eyes.
In any case against Trump where a victim is named, they'll rally to denigrate that victim.
But to actually answer your question, yes, some of those should. I can pop off rounds on my street in a drunken Curly Bill fashion and just because no bullets hit anyone doesn't mean law enforcement shouldn't come get me. I put lives in danger.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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I would hope the obviousness of the faulty logic in the question
Mar 25, 2024, 9:55 AM
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might dissuade some from using the "there is no victim" nonsense of an excuse.
But some are still clinging to it.
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All-In [42196]
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They're fed a line of made-up logic from Fox or some YouTuber
Mar 25, 2024, 9:58 AM
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And they latch onto it. We're getting a combo of that excuse + "it's politically motivated!"
Anything to deflect from the concept that Trump should and is being held accountable for his wrongdoing.
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CU Guru [1374]
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Re: Should laws with no clear victims be prosecuted?
Mar 25, 2024, 8:56 AM
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Yes because they still broke the law. You have to go to traffic court, magistrate court, or general sessions. If the state can prove you are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, you are guilty of the crime.
In the NYC case there was not enough evidence (or any at all) to charge Trump criminally. So they, somehow, cooked up some bs case, took him to civil court and found him liable. Civil cases always have a victim. Money is paid out to the victim if the defendant is found liable. Except there is no victim in this case. Who is the money being paid to and why?
Good try though.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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Did Trump break the law?
Mar 25, 2024, 9:43 AM
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You're using the "there is no victim" excuse, but there was no victim in my lifelong expired fire extinguisher ticket...which I have paid dearly for over the last 23 years.
If I get hammered and drive my car to the store and back an no one gets hurt, who is the victim?
You say "somehow" they cooked up enough evidence to prove him guilty, but you say there was none? Do you actually believe that?
It seems many want to only punish those who break the law when they deem its necessary.
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CU Guru [1374]
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Re: Did Trump break the law?
Mar 25, 2024, 9:48 AM
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Dude. A DUI is against the law. That’s a criminal offense where you have to be found guilty in CRIMINAL court. You can’t be sued in civil court for a DUI.
Donal Trump wasn’t found guilty of anything. He was found LIABLE for fraud in civil court. The case was in civil court because the DA knew there was nowhere near enough evidence to find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in criminal court. Trump didn’t break the law. At least not that they have been able to prove, yet.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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But somehow he was found guilty?
Mar 25, 2024, 9:53 AM
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Dude that's pretty amazing he was found liable, or guilty, of something he didn't do.
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CU Guru [1374]
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Re: But somehow he was found guilty?
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Mar 25, 2024, 10:27 AM
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He was found liable by a crooked judge and a politically motivated AG out to “get him”. He was not found guilty of anything. He was found liable. You can only be guilty in a criminal court not civil court. Civil court does not require the burden of proof that criminal court does.
It is excruciatingly simple. He went to a bank for a loan, the bank evaluated his assets and they came to an agreement on loan terms. He payed the loan back to the bank. In full. The end.
How does he owe 500 million dollars for that?
I know Trump has many faults and may very well be a shady businessman. If you can’t see how ridiculous this case was and admit it was politically motivated then you are a fool or willfully ignorant.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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It really sounds like everyone is against him, just because of who he is.
Mar 25, 2024, 10:37 AM
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One would never think that in the popularity contest of life, a lying, arrogant scumbag of a loudmouth yankee businessman who spent his entire life bragging about getting over on people would ever have made any enemies.
Poor Donald.
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CU Guru [1374]
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Re: It really sounds like everyone is against him, just because of who he is.
Mar 25, 2024, 10:48 AM
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Funny no one accused him of being a fraud until after he ran for president.
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All-In [34113]
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Re: It really sounds like everyone is against him, just because of who he is.
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Mar 25, 2024, 10:50 AM
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Funny no one accused him of being a fraud until after he ran for president.
If I can prove that someone did, will you post a video of you punching yourself in the face?
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110%er [5694]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 12169
Joined: 9/28/08
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Re: Should laws with no clear victims be prosecuted?
1
Mar 25, 2024, 10:11 AM
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No way.
However, I'd now like to let you know your driver's license is suspended because we have you speeding about 3,492 times between 1990 and 2010.
You will owe $1,257,320 in back traffic fines (with interest).
If you can't pay, we'll take your house.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 56152
Joined: 9/13/04
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If someone can prove that, then I'm guilty.
Mar 25, 2024, 10:34 AM
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Have at it.
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CU Guru [1374]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 1810
Joined: 1/2/20
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Re: If someone can prove that, then I'm guilty.
Mar 25, 2024, 10:50 AM
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Exactly. If someone can prove it. No one can prove he is guilty. That’s why it went to civil court. Either way it’s obvious you just are determined to hate the bad orange man. You are completely biased against him. Have fun in you anger filled delusions. If he does when this election I would love to see your face.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 56152
Joined: 9/13/04
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"anger filled delusions"
Mar 25, 2024, 1:31 PM
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That struck me as funny, as it seems you are angry that you've been shown the logic lie of a "victimless crime".
As to the election; I'll have a sad face regardless if him or Biden win. I don't know who will win the next presidential election, but I do know who will lose: America.
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All-TigerNet [10900]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 15070
Joined: 8/6/10
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Pretty much, yep.***
Mar 25, 2024, 1:25 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 56152
Joined: 9/13/04
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So you don't think you should be charged with DUI, or speeding, or
Mar 25, 2024, 1:32 PM
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income tax fraud, or jaywalking, unless there is a clear path to someone else being a victim?
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