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Trainer [27]
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Roots of the apparent decline of the program; After 1st CFP Championship win?
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Jan 6, 2024, 1:56 PM
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I've been a Clemson Tigers fan since Tommy West's first season of 1994-1995 (age 10), though I've been regularly watching the games since 2011 (Chad Morris' first season). Being very young then, I've had the impression that Clemson was always capable of being a good team as I sometimes watched games with my dad in the late 80's, but in 1994, I recalled that they struggled because they had a lot of freshmen on the team that year.
I, my dad, and my sister went to a Clemson vs Georgia Tech game in that same year, and we went into a museum by the basketball stadium, and he showed us a picture and description about an undefeated season that Clemson had in 1981-1982 where they won a national championship.
Anyway, during the playoff contending run over the last 10 years, I've looked for some possible seeds/roots of the perceived decline of the program. The fanbase tends to point to the 44-16 win over Alabama in the 2018-2019 national championship game (Dabo's second national championship).
I personally think it goes as far back as the beginning of 2017 following the Dabo's first National Championship win over Alabama.
The consensus by the fanbase is that Dabo has done the friends & family plan of hiring. I have agreed with this as far as replacing experienced coaches with friends/former players. Thus, this practice, although he has always done it to a degree, I think, had really started after that first win.
Right after that 2017 national championship game, Clemson lost DL coaches Brooks & Hobby. Dabo replaced Hobby with Hall a year later. Fans were concerned about future development on the defensive line, and to me, this was validated since the loss of the Power Rangers from 2019 on. I've noticed that D-linemen under the development of Bates & Hall were smaller than that under Brooks & Hobby, and the pass rush wasn't as good.
Most importantly, Dabo and staff got lazy and complacent with recruitng & evaluation after the first national championship. The consensus here is that the 2019 recruiting class has played a major role in the declining level of play on the field. I agree wholeheartedly with this. The class was quite lackluster on offense.
The 2019 class mainly got recruited after that first win. The two classes before, 2017 & 2018, which were our last great WR classes (and on offense overall), got recruited before it. Trevor Lawrence got recruited & committed before the first national championship win.
SocMan2®, JREwing®, LeonTrotsky
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Orange Blooded [4559]
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Re: Roots of the apparent decline of the program; After 1st CFP Championship win?
Jan 6, 2024, 2:00 PM
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That 2019 recruiting class was abysmal, and set us back for 3 years
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110%er [5014]
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Re: Roots of the apparent decline of the program; After 1st CFP Championship win?
Jan 6, 2024, 2:05 PM
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Just went back and looked at that 2019 class, goodness that may have been the worst class of Dabos tenure. Which is odd as your coming off a National Championship
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Trainer [27]
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Re: Roots of the apparent decline of the program; After 1st CFP Championship win?
Jan 6, 2024, 2:16 PM
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I think winning the championships attracted higher-rated players nationally, but they may not all have been the right fit for the program. Usually, Dabo has always been selective with his offers.
This may have also been the case for the 2020 and 2021 classes as they seem to also have not performed up to par (as per their rankings at the time of signing).
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110%er [5407]
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Re: Roots of the apparent decline of the program; After 1st CFP Championship win?
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Jan 6, 2024, 2:09 PM
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I agree with you. I am also going to add that Dabo dug in his heels and kept some coaches longer than he should. There is no reason for Clemson’s offensive line to be bad. To add fuel to the fire, the Wild West of the portal and NIL were implemented. Looking back, we have witnessed a perfect storm for the decline of football.
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110%er [5407]
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Re: Roots of the apparent decline of the program; After 1st CFP Championship win?
Jan 6, 2024, 2:16 PM
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I just looked it up and I am finding that NIL deals started on July 1, 2021. The transfer portal opened on October 18, 2018 and implemented the no sit out a year rule in 2021.
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110%er [9203]
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Trevor didnt sign until December 2017***
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Jan 6, 2024, 2:31 PM
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Trainer [27]
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Re: Trevor didnt sign until December 2017***
Jan 6, 2024, 2:37 PM
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Trevor Lawrence committed on December 16, 2016.
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All-American [562]
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He said "SIGN" loi not the initial verbal****
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Jan 6, 2024, 3:14 PM
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Trainer [27]
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Re: He said "SIGN" loi not the initial verbal****
Jan 6, 2024, 3:35 PM
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The point I was getting across is that he committed before we won the first national championship. If we had lost that national championship game appearnce in January 2017 but won one at a later time with Trevor Lawrence as quarterback, then he would have been the quarterback to bring Dabo's first national title.
Here, I wonder how the 2019 class would have played out in the case of a loss in the national title appearance in January 2017.
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110%er [9203]
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This decline you speak of started 3 years ago
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Jan 6, 2024, 3:21 PM
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Because we didn’t have a play maker at QB, it’s not rocket science. DW4, KB, and TL were all play makers. People scoff at KB but his legs opened up the passing game and and made him a respectable passer and he led us to a number one seed in the CFP. We get a playmaker at QB again, we get out of this horrid, unspeakable “decline”.
Hope that helps your seeds and roots.
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Trainer [27]
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Re: This decline you speak of started 3 years ago
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Jan 6, 2024, 3:54 PM
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I agree. We haven't had good quarterback play following Trevor Lawrence's departure.
A part of that does go back to the recruiting & evaluation issues during the years in which Taisun, DJU, and Cade got recruited & committed to the program.
In 2021, Clemson didn't go much after a quarterback. I think it was two players who ended up taking up baseball as their fulltime sport. 2021 had a great quarterback talent pool, but Clemson seemed not to pursue any of them hard. I think they should have.
2020 5-star quarterback recruit DJU was considered a bust by many since he was pretty poor in 2021, though he improved a bit in 2022. Still, he didn't live up to his 5-star billing at Clemson.
2019 4-star recruit Taisun didn't really develop. He had injury issues, but in 2021, when he was healthier, he didn't contribute much.
Our current 5-star quarterback Cade (in 2022 class), like DJU, hasn't lived up to his 5-star billing. The verdict is still out on how much he will improve.
A major factor may be that Cade, at his high school, was surrounded by really good offensive line and wide receiver talent, which all made him look better and inflated is star rating.
I also think Streeter may not have developed quarterbacks well, which may be a major reason why he was let go at the end of the 2022-2023 season. It was simply having transcendental talents in Deshaun Watson and Trevor Lawrence that masked this.
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All-American [562]
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2021 Caleb Williams...
Jan 7, 2024, 1:37 AM
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was the #1 QB on our board and the only 1 as well that was deemed worthy of any pursuit–
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: Roots of the apparent decline of the program; After 1st CFP Championship win?
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Jan 7, 2024, 12:32 AM
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That's not why.
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