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Replies: 33
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All-In [27344]
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On paper we have TONS of talent at WR
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Dec 24, 2023, 6:42 PM
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If that group is healthy and doesn’t show tremendous improvement heads need to roll
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110%er [6971]
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Re: On paper we have TONS of talent at WR
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Dec 24, 2023, 6:46 PM
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100% agree
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Asst Coach [712]
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Re: On paper we have TONS of talent at WR
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Dec 24, 2023, 6:55 PM
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It’s the same bunch besides 2 true freshman minus B Collins.
It’s the same group minus a starter and plus 2 very highly touted unknowns.
I agree if the group is more of the same, Grisham should hit the road. But I have to wonder where all that talent was when Cade needed it?
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All-TigerNet [13549]
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Re: On paper we have TONS of talent at WR
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Dec 24, 2023, 7:03 PM
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A lot of it was injured…
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110%er [6971]
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Re: On paper we have TONS of talent at WR
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Dec 24, 2023, 7:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: On paper we have TONS of talent at WR ] |
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Antonio Williams back 100% healthy, Cole Turner back 100% healthy , Tyler Brown, Jake Birningstool, Adam Randall, Troy Stellato, Jake Birningstool, Bryant Wesco and TJ Moore coming in
That is a solid group if they stay healthy but if they continue to underperform in 2024, Grisham gotta go. No other choice
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Asst Coach [712]
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Re: On paper we have TONS of talent at WR
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Dec 24, 2023, 9:24 PM
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One thing Grisham can’t coach is speed. That’s where I question the talent level. If anyone should know WR talent it’s a Clemson fan. I still wish they would have opened the piggy bank and got a fast proven WR from the portal. I hope they don’t need it and I was wrong to think they do.
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110%er [6905]
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He can coach BLOCKING and for some reason that
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Dec 25, 2023, 11:30 AM
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does not improve!
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Asst Coach [712]
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Re: He can coach BLOCKING and for some reason that
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Dec 26, 2023, 9:49 AM
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The blocking looked bad for sure. I always wondered if Cade was releasing the ball to quick on the screens and not giving the blocking players time to get in position to engage. Or they just can’t block, lol. But it needs to be a strength. Your right , that’s fundamental.
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Scout Team [178]
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110%er [8095]
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Oculus Spirit [77022]
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Orange Blooded [4059]
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very surprised that position coach was not one of the heads to roll
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Dec 24, 2023, 8:00 PM
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iyam, this was year 3 of wr underperformance. Too many drops, poor routes and don’t block. That seems to be a development issue. That tidbit is worth exactly what you paid for it.
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Standout [306]
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Re: very surprised that position coach was not one of the heads to roll
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Dec 24, 2023, 9:17 PM
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Exactly, he inherited a well oiled WR core and ran it into the ground. Grisham has proven he isn’t up to the task. I hope he’s gone after the bowl game, but that doesn’t seem likely at this point unfortunately
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All-In [48374]
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Re: very surprised that position coach was not one of the heads to roll
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Dec 24, 2023, 10:35 PM
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I'm confused. Seriously. In Dabo's article, he says line up all our existing WRs and they can fly. Also said Grisham did an excellent job.
So if Grisham did such an amazing job with the freshman Brown, but Stellato took most all season to get snaps, and Dabo says that's because he was just cleared for the Duke game... what took so long. Well Dabo says it's because he didn't camp. Which is kinda a lie. He went thru camp but just no contact.
Stellato is a junior. He's been thru more camps than any receiver on our roster. So why couldn't Grisham do more with him.
As for Turner, he had 2 receptions against Duke for 21 yards, long of 11. He had a couple drops on deeper balls in that game too. Saying, he had a couple great catches in the acc championship game, a few in the Tennessee game but nothing flashy. I'm not saying he won't be great, just saying we don't really have a sample size to know what he can or can't do.
Posters tow the line that we had a lot of injuries, but we only had two. Williams and Cole. So, if Williams stays healthy this season, how many snaps does TB actually get? Not many imo. Dabo talked in the spring wanting to redshirt him. Just saying...
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Standout [306]
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Re: very surprised that position coach was not one of the heads to roll
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Dec 24, 2023, 10:58 PM
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Perfectly said! But careful using well thought out logic like that around here too much, some of the sunshine pumpers don’t like it very much
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Starter [364]
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Standout [306]
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Re: Quarterback wasnt there yet. Plus two big injuries.***
Dec 25, 2023, 11:42 AM
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Doesn’t excuse the drops and lack of speed. Quarterback play needs to improve but so does WR development.
I honestly ask what are the redeeming qualities that so many of you want to KEEP Grisham on staff? Why wouldn’t you want the role upgraded the way Dabo
did with the OL?
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: Quarterback wasnt there yet. Plus two big injuries.***
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Dec 25, 2023, 1:15 PM
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Because you have to determine if the problems are ACTUALLY due to coaching. You are assuming that they are, but it may not be the case.
Plus, it's also possible that Grisham has been getting some better recruits lined up as well.
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Standout [306]
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Re: Quarterback wasnt there yet. Plus two big injuries.***
Dec 25, 2023, 4:37 PM
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Drops are a fundamental problem, coaches are responsible for fundamentals. If he’s that valuable as a
RC then find a new WRC
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Starter [364]
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Do you watch football sir? I dont think Ive ever watched a game at any
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Dec 25, 2023, 7:24 PM
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level where it couldn’t be said receivers dropped some catchable balls.
How many did we have? Was it more than all the other 1-A teams in America?
Contrarily, you’re hyper focused on us and don’t account for drops everywhere at every level. It happens.
There have been WRs running free all year long. The QB MUST improve, or it doesn’t matter who we get at WR.
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Starter [364]
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WRs drop some passes everywhere even the NFL.
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Dec 25, 2023, 7:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: Quarterback wasnt there yet. Plus two big injuries.*** ] |
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We do have speed. Again, in this system there are open guys nearly every play. That’s doing your job as a receiver. The receivers are getting open, but the QB has repeatedly panicked and lost sight of the field. What else can the receivers do but get open?
Again, the entire program has been handcuffed by mediocre or worse QB play. It doesn’t matter if we have 5 Tee Higgins if the QB can’t see them and get the ball to them. There are no great teams without a great QB. The issue isn’t guys getting space, it’s the QB not seeing them.
Fix the QB and the WRs and entire offense will follow. Suddenly open guys will be getting the ball. That all there is to it.
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Asst Coach [712]
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110%er [9193]
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Football is a contact sport
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Dec 25, 2023, 4:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: very surprised that position coach was not one of the heads to roll ] |
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If the DBs can’t touch a WR and they just run air routes they can’t develop. He may know the offense but he hasn’t played real football in 3 years… think about that and consider how well he did. I think Stellato will be a stud this year if he stays healthy all off season, was a complete dog in high school.
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Legend [16263]
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Re: very surprised that position coach was not one of the heads to roll
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Dec 25, 2023, 6:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: very surprised that position coach was not one of the heads to roll ] |
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Stellato was cleared for his first contact of the year the Tuesday before Duke. He essentially hadn't practiced over spring and summer at all physically, other than exercise, rehab, and film room. He's been here a while but injured through much of it. He has actually missed more than his fair share of spring and summer stints since he's been here.
Merry Christmas!
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Orange Blooded [2922]
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There were more injuries than that..
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Dec 26, 2023, 2:24 AM
[ in reply to Re: very surprised that position coach was not one of the heads to roll ] |
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Tyler Brown was injured during NCSU…he missed a lot of that game and it cost us big time.
Stellato couldn’t get healthy until the season started.
Randall finished the year with one hand and for most of the year still showed signs of being limited by ACL.
Collins was injured down the stretch as well.
The Williams injury was huge. He’s a good one.
At some point, you need depth at receiver…that’s where the injuries take their toll. Our best receiving corps have had some serious depth. This one…not so much. Will some of the frosh who redshirted be ready to provide depth this coming season? We need them to do so.
This team also really needed Collins to be a true #1 ‘go to’ receiver…there were glimpses, but ultimately he didn’t get there the last 2 seasons.
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Asst Coach [712]
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Clemgalalways
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Dec 26, 2023, 9:55 AM
[ in reply to Re: very surprised that position coach was not one of the heads to roll ] |
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I really like your posts. You’re putting in words a lot of what I’m thinking. It’s amazing the rationalizations and excuses that have been made about a group that for 3 years has been a crippling weakness.
I am glad they pulled in the 2 freshman, that’s great, but what if they just are freshman and not really ready yet? Your left with the same guys minus Collins plus Turner. It is what it is.
They needed a guy from the portal to be the one you can depend on to take the top off. Imagine Brown and Williams with a real difference maker on the outside. It would make them even more dangerous.
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CU Guru [1852]
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Re: On paper we have TONS of talent at WR
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Dec 24, 2023, 9:07 PM
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Relying on an early enrollee and a summer enrollee is tough. TB6 and AW0 both at full strength should be interesting. Still don’t really have a dominant 50/50 guy unless Randall can grow a pair!
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Orange Blooded [2030]
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Randall is not built like our past 50/50 guys
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Dec 24, 2023, 10:08 PM
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Just do not see the athleticism. Earlier post makes sense to me about put all chips in a NIL package for the 50/50 wide receiver or one of those linemen we supposedly pursued but didn’t love us back.🫨
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Starter [364]
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Cade very rarely has given anyone a 50/50 ball though.
Dec 25, 2023, 7:27 PM
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He rarely even tries to do so. He’s been focusing on his primary guy and losing site of the rest of the field. The reason Mike Williams and Tee Higgins got a lot of 50/50 balls was because Deshaun and Trevor weren’t afraid to give them a chance. Cade isn’t there yet.
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Asst Coach [733]
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Re: Cade very rarely has given anyone a 50/50 ball though.
Dec 25, 2023, 11:59 PM
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OL giving him 2 seconds on almost every play doesn’t give him time to go thru progressions. The move was made to fix the OL. When he had a clean pocket ( which was rarely) he graded out over 85%. That’s elite. An improved OL will lead to far more deep balls and better WB and, theoretically, better WR play. The lack of WR blocking is hard to blame on anything but coaching however.
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Starter [364]
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Cade was only truly pressured on 30% of his passes.
Dec 26, 2023, 12:09 AM
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He had more than 2 seconds most of the time. 2-5 like most OLs. Where he needs to grow is stepping up in the pocket while keeping as much of the field in front of him as possible while buying time to spot his receivers. There’s almost always someone open in this system. Don’t bail out at the first feel of a rush… step up, move around, scan the options. Slow the game down. Don’t panic and stay cool. That’s what all seasoned and great QBs are able to do. Cade will get it.
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Orange Blooded [4791]
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Re: On paper we have TONS of talent at WR
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Dec 24, 2023, 10:13 PM
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The two freshmen have potential but we probably shouldn't expect them to walk onto campus and be difference makers from day one.
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Orange Blooded [3110]
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Re: On paper we have TONS of talent at WR
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Dec 25, 2023, 1:41 PM
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WR is the easiest position for a true freshman to come in ready to play. 2 seasons in a row our far and away best WR has been a True Freshman. That’s not always the best sign, but if they can play they can play. They don’t wait until they get to college to learn how to run, jump, and catch; but for some reason they have been waiting til the get here to forget how to do it….
That’s a coaching problem.
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CU Guru [1932]
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Re: On paper we have TONS of talent at WR
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Dec 25, 2023, 5:52 PM
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I was watching some video of Clemson during the Watson and Lawrence days and we had some big bodies out there. We're tiny by comparison now.
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