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All-In [40936]
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Standout [312]
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Congress has turned into political theater.***
Apr 16, 2012, 3:51 PM
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Orange Blooded [2080]
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Nice ambush by the Senator...
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Mar 23, 2024, 7:14 PM
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That kid is not an expert on climate change, and I'm not sure why he was on that panel, other than to talk about changes he's seen in his skiing career related to climate in the places that he skis.
I wouldn't have put him on that panel, but so be it. However, if he thinks that humans are driving climate change and that we need to do something about it, then he's correct. Climate Science has settled the question about the existence of human-driven global warming. That part isn't up for debate really. What is up for debate is what we do about it. And absent some big changes, the Earth will keep warming, and we will continue to have changes, some of which will not be good.
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All-TigerNet [13153]
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No one that says this is a real scientist.
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Mar 23, 2024, 7:50 PM
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“Climate Science has settled the question about the existence of human-driven global warming. That part isn't up for debate really.”
Fake scientists say it to get funding and notoriety. People like you say it because you are ignorant and easily influenced. If either of the two groups believe what they are saying, why are you still using fossil fuels, why haven’t you committed suicide?
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Oculus Spirit [81925]
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Well that wins for stupid post for the night.***
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Mar 23, 2024, 8:20 PM
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All-TigerNet [13153]
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^^^ still uses fossil fuels****
Mar 23, 2024, 10:54 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81925]
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So? It's not a problem an individual can solve, your post was stupid.***
Mar 24, 2024, 9:02 AM
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All-In [34598]
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Orange Blooded [2080]
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You're a moron.****
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Mar 24, 2024, 8:45 AM
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All-In [40936]
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Here is a simple question
Mar 23, 2024, 8:45 PM
[ in reply to Nice ambush by the Senator... ] |
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how much does it cost in dollars to keep the global temperature from rising.
It should be a fairly straight forward answer since the amount of heat is directly related to CO2 output. Calculate the amount of allowable C02 to meet the paris climate accord or better yet to reduce c02 and cool the planet. Calculate to cost of alternative energy to meet the CO2 reduction and calculate the cost to produce the alternative energy.
Certainly that exercise has been done. What is the cost?
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Orange Blooded [2080]
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It's not nearly as costly as the deniers say it is....
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Mar 24, 2024, 8:42 AM
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https://www.irena.org/news/pressreleases/2022/Jul/Renewable-Power-Remains-Cost-Competitive-amid-Fossil-Fuel-Crisis
The same people who can barely bring themselves to admit that AGW exists also act like we're going to destroy our economy if we try and address the issue. But the cost renewables has come way down. And Biden's IRA bill was all carrots and no sticks, with tax credits for companies that invest in renewable energy & battery production, etc. We can address climate change without bankrupting the country.
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110%er [5694]
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Re: It's not nearly as costly as the deniers say it is....
Mar 24, 2024, 9:16 AM
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you are stupid.
If the USA's carbon emissions went to zero, it does essentially nothing on the global scale.
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Orange Blooded [2080]
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I didn't say that AGW was a US-only problem....
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Mar 24, 2024, 2:24 PM
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I said that solving the issue won't cost nearly as much as Red Hats and other denialists think.
You're an effing moron.
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Orange Blooded [4790]
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Re: Nice ambush by the Senator...
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Mar 23, 2024, 10:35 PM
[ in reply to Nice ambush by the Senator... ] |
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I do agree that this kid should have never been in that seat. But its illustrative of the college morons we have walking around repeating platitudes they've been told are true that anyone with a brain can see are not. This twenty something guy honestly thinks that because there's less snow than a few years ago that it's some kind of proof of, well, something and he wants God and everybody to do what the self described experts have told him needs to be done even though he obviously doesn't have the faintest idea about literally even the simplest aspects of climate such as how much of the atmosphere is made up of carbon.
This guys knows what to think because he's been told what to think and the fact he has absolutely no idea about any of it beyond that simple fact is completely irrelevant to him. I'm sure he will be testifying about how men can give birth at next weeks hearings because somebody told him it was true as well. Never having an independent thought is practically a prerequisite to getting a college degree these days and this guys exhibit A.
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CU Guru [1071]
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Re: Nice ambush by the Senator...
Mar 23, 2024, 11:46 PM
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I do agree that this kid should have never been in that seat. But its illustrative of the college morons we have walking around repeating platitudes they've been told are true that anyone with a brain can see are not. This twenty something guy honestly thinks that because there's less snow than a few years ago that it's some kind of proof of, well, something and he wants God and everybody to do what the self described experts have told him needs to be done even though he obviously doesn't have the faintest idea about literally even the simplest aspects of climate such as how much of the atmosphere is made up of carbon.
This guys knows what to think because he's been told what to think and the fact he has absolutely no idea about any of it beyond that simple fact is completely irrelevant to him. I'm sure he will be testifying about how men can give birth at next weeks hearings because somebody told him it was true as well. Never having an independent thought is practically a prerequisite to getting a college degree these days and this guys exhibit A.
Excellent post
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Orange Blooded [2080]
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Actually it's more illustrative of the Senator....
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Mar 24, 2024, 8:44 AM
[ in reply to Re: Nice ambush by the Senator... ] |
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He's been told by the polluters what to think, and so he attacks a kid who is an olympic skier to score points with morons on twitter. That Senator, who should be leading us out of the fossil fuel age instead is captured by those interests, and attacking olympic skiers.
I wouldn't have put that kid on that panel. But that senator didn't demonstrate any mastery of a topic where he should be well-informed. He just looked like a bullly.
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110%er [5694]
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No the senator has common sense
Mar 24, 2024, 9:19 AM
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which is unheard of in today's left.
The kid posts that systemic racism is the cops patrolling in high crime (i.e., black) neighborhoods.
This is the kind of woke nonsense that is outrageously stupid. Lacking any other tangible data to identify the problem, yeah, I'd say it is a mental illness.
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Orange Blooded [2080]
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That senator is an idiot....
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Mar 24, 2024, 2:22 PM
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First, he asked the kid questions to try to confuse him, and the kid didn't take the bait. Then, he tried to change the subject on the kid, to slime the kid.
The fact that you think that senator is showing common sense, when he's just parroting right-wing talking points given to him by his handlers, shows that you're lacking in some basic grey matter.
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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Kennedy doesn't have "handlers"... He's basic common sense.***
Mar 24, 2024, 5:11 PM
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All-TigerNet [12252]
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And there it is.... The old "Science is settled" nonsense...
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Mar 24, 2024, 8:30 AM
[ in reply to Nice ambush by the Senator... ] |
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Anytime you see the "Science has settled the question" or one of it's variations - it is a sure sign that what follows is nothing more than a heavily favored opinion with which one is incapable or unwilling to entertain honest debate. It is simply a convenient device to silence honest dissent, scientific or otherwise, in order to drive a preferred (and usually politically motivated) narrative.
If you believe in science, then there is no such thing as "settled science". The very foundation of the scientific method is that science is unbiased and always open to new discovery, new research, new data, new theory and new conclusions. For thousands of years "the earth is flat" and the "earth is the center of the universe" (i.e. Geocentric model) were "settled science" norms. Thank goodness our ancestors didn't stop considering other possibilities because of a false "settled science" narrative in their day.
There is hardly a whole of the scientific community consensus on climate change. But because climate change has become so politicized and is used to drive whole political agendas with enormous amounts of money attached to it - there is a concerted effort to put forth only one view of climate change and demonize any that don't conform to it. This "science is settled" BS is simply a device used by those who refuse to acknowledge or even discuss there are differing scientific views of climate change just as I'm sure the adherents of the Geocentric model did for some 1500 years before being proven wrong...
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Orange Blooded [2080]
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There are many aspects of climate science up for debate....
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Mar 24, 2024, 8:50 AM
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How to address climate change, how to judge the models, various aspects of climate, such as hurricanes, etc....
But the basic question: Are humans warming the planet?....that's already been debated and decided. There is no real actual debate about this question anymore. We know we are warming the planet, just like we know that gravity exists.
I can explain it. I can provide links. I can lay it out in front of you as clear as "2+2=4". But getting hard-right-wingers in America (basically the only group in that world where denialism still flourishes) to admit that BASIC FACT is beyond my ability.
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110%er [5694]
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Re: There are many aspects of climate science up for debate....
Mar 24, 2024, 9:25 AM
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Can we agree on the concept of 'you don't know what you don't know'? If you can't agree on that, then you should recuse yourself from all posts and any debate on any topic.
You are 100% wrong - it is not decided that humans are warming the planet. I have a PhD in engineering and you are simply very, very wrong. You believe what you want to believe - period. Your OPINION is humans are warming the plant. It is an opinion from an uneducated, non-technical person.
You can't explain it because you don't understand it. You think you understand it because you are a leftists moron that believes they understand anything they can Google and get a result for.
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Orange Blooded [2080]
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I don't care is you have 1,000 PHD's in Engineering....
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Mar 24, 2024, 2:26 PM
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That doesn't mean squat unless you're doing peer reviewed research in climate science. The field of climate science has shown over and over that AGW is happening. Your "PhD" in engineering means nothing to me or anyone in that field that does actual climate research.
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All-TigerNet [12252]
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Remember - "Settled Science" is always "settled" until it isn't....
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Mar 24, 2024, 9:42 AM
[ in reply to There are many aspects of climate science up for debate.... ] |
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We've all been taught that the speed of light is constant. Well... there is some interesting research going on that might just show that isn't the case. But you don't see the same level of uproar over scientists who dare to be looking at this issue as you do those looking at climate change that differ from some popular and political narratives. Probably because the politics of the speed of light being constant (or not) has very little political utility in making some people very rich and isn't going to drive a massive political agenda involving unlimited Government mandates and enormous sums of taxpayer dollars being spent.
FYI...
https://www.livescience.com/29111-speed-of-light-not-constant.html
You will notice I have not taken a position in this thread other than the "science is not settled" position. That is because I don't debate climate change for one big reason: the climate change debate - particularly as it applies to human involvement - has become so politically and emotionally charged that I find the whole thing worse than debating religion.
The typical climate change discussion usually involves data and conclusions from a multitude of sources being taken as gospel by each side of the argument where no matter what is presented it will have no affect one's pre-determined opinion. Inevitably the discussion will devolve into name calling with terms such as "denier", "heretic", "charlatan" or worse (terms also commonly used in religious debates) being attributed to one participant or the other.
So feel free believe what you want on climate change - but I would caution anyone, on either side of the argument, about thinking in absolutes when it comes to any scientific field of study - including climate change.
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110%er [5694]
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the speed of light question
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Mar 24, 2024, 9:59 AM
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is very interesting. While the politics of physics is certainly less voluminous than the politics of climate change, it does exist.
Some tenured professors who align themselves with theory XYZ and get funding to continue researching and publishing on theory XYZ will do what? Will continue to promote theory XYZ, possibly even if they believe otherwise.
I have read some alternative theories on the speed of light that contemplate something like an event horizon where there is some distance past which light does not propagate. When integrated into companion equations to explain physics of the universe, the results are plausible and not too different than that commonly accepted today.
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Do you believe in the big bang theory? It's been standard fare for decades. The people 'in the know' are beginning to question it more and more. When mainstream physics says the big bang was not correct, will you genius leftists continue to support the big bang?
How about the food pyramid? Millions ascribed to it for 50 years. What happened?
Eggs are good for you. No wait, eggs are bad for you...
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All-TigerNet [12252]
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That's my point... science is constantly evolving and this desire to
Mar 24, 2024, 10:30 AM
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describe any particular branch of science as "settled" is simply absurd by any measure. But politics, particularly when Government power/control and lots of money are involved, will taint just about anything including modern science. In days of old, the church/religion was the most guilty party in limiting science/scientists from expressing an opposing view. They simply couldn't allow any of their accepted dogma to be proven false.
In modern times, Governments throughout the world have largely surpassed the church in seeking to limit scientific dissent that is in conflict with their "accepted" positions. Even in the USA where dissent is supposedly cherished as a characteristic of our individual liberty, the US Government is getting ever more aggressive in their desire to shut down speech/ideas they find contrary to their narratives.
Without dragging this thread too much further into a far off direction - I do find the origin of the universe theories all eventually come down to one common thing. Whether your view on the origin is purely scientific or religious - they all require the belief in at least one miracle - that at some point "something" was created from "nothing".
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All-TigerNet [12592]
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Re: Remember - "Settled Science" is always "settled" until it isn't....
Mar 24, 2024, 10:14 AM
[ in reply to Remember - "Settled Science" is always "settled" until it isn't.... ] |
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Totally agree. Science only works when virtually everything is questioned.
My own unscientific opinion is that the climate is warming and that man made carbon emissions probably plays some role in the warming.
Beyond that, we don’t really know much of anything in my opinion. We certainly don’t know the cost to benefit or cost to harm of instituting draconian changes to our lifestyles.
We do know that with the U.S. going to carbon neutral without drastic changes in China and India and 3rd world countries, that the climate would not be altered one bit.
We know far less than we know about climate science and an open mind is a far more prudent way to proceed rather than having a degree of moral certitude of the Al Gore acolytes or an outright denial of climate warming.
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Orange Blooded [2080]
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It is only politically charged because the American RW is a cult...
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Mar 24, 2024, 2:28 PM
[ in reply to Remember - "Settled Science" is always "settled" until it isn't.... ] |
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Around the rest of the world, AGW isn't being debated in terms of whether it's happening or not. We all know it's happening. It only became political in the US when the right-wing realized they could create a fake argument to protect their buddies in fossil fuel producing industries and buy votes from the Red Hat morons.
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All-TigerNet [12592]
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Re: It is only politically charged because the American RW is a cult...
Mar 24, 2024, 3:00 PM
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I know. It’s the right wing that has put the kibosh on expanding nuclear power in the U.S., which at last look has zero to do with fossil fuels. It’s the right wing that is taking down hydroelectric facilities.
If only we could emulate our liberal brethren in France who apparently don’t have any No Nukes Red Hats like we have.
Seriously, you need a nice warm cup of herbal tea, maybe THC infused. You gots a lot of anger.
I suspect everyone who disagrees with you is not a moron.
There’s a lot of gray in this world, far more gray than black and white. Everything and everybody doesn’t fit in a nice box.
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Orange Blooded [2080]
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I'm pro-nuclear power.....
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Mar 24, 2024, 4:19 PM
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You and I would agree on that. However, I'm not going to pretend that there's an actual "debate" on whether AGW exists. Only in right-wing America does that debate exist.
Joe Biden's IRA plan is mostly tax credits for companies that invest in renewables & EV & batteries. It's a very conservative plan actually, and it's contributed greatly to a boom in manufacturing investment. We're now making progress on renewables, and it's a credit largely to Biden's policies.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/C307RC1Q027SBEA
If this were happening under Trump, the Red Hats would be going crazy right now.
AS for the comments calling people morons, just in the last 24 hours, separate users on this forum have called me stupid, moron, and retarded. So, I'm just giving back what I get. I don't have anything personal against you.
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Hall of Famer [24111]
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All-TigerNet [12592]
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Re: This expert witness has some compelling arguments
Mar 24, 2024, 6:55 AM
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The kid is not the brightest bulb for sure, but the person who thought this young man was a good spokesperson for climate change is dumber still.
The climate is warming, most likely with the help of manmade carbon emissions, but beyond that I’m not sure anyone has the answers about anything related to climate change.
Certainly this young Alaskan native with a deep reservoir of knowledge about the plight of blacks in America based on what?, knows essentially nothing about climate science.
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110%er [5694]
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Re: This expert witness has some compelling arguments
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Mar 24, 2024, 9:33 AM
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This kid testifying is a symptom of how stupid the country is as a whole and how the leftist democrats will believe anything as long as it can be explained in 15 seconds.
The duration of human existence on this planet rounds to zero compared to how long weather has been changing.
The duration of man-made CO2 is even less.
The few ski seasons this idiot has seen where he perceives less snow is even less.
To draw conclusions from such a tiny, tiny, tiny sample of data when the scientific community does not fully understand and have not characterized cause and effect of the millions of parameters that govern the planet's climate is wrong.
In any conversation with any person that believes the science is settled on climate change, I can prove them wrong in 30 seconds by asking questions which they cannot answer. I am not saying I am right because I am not putting forward an alternate explanation to be right or wrong about.
The point is 'we don't know for sure' that what humans are doing to the planet is the major driver of what might be a very short period of a tiny bit of warming.
Are humans changing the planet - yes. Do we know much beyond that - no.
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