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CU Medallion [58431]
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Dershowitz nails it re: Trump ...
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Jun 13, 2023, 9:44 AM
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I just saw it live on News Nation, so I can't provide a link yet, but Alan Dershowitz just said that yes, Trump may indeed be guilty, but he is wrongly being targetd and the justice system is being abused for political purposes. He said both can be true. He said lawyers are being intimidated into not defending Trump. He says we are seeing a new form of McCarthyism, in which there are tremendous pressures to prevent lawyers from defending Trump. In the last 14 hours, two of the best lawyers in the country have contacted him and said they were asked to defend Trump, but both declined out of fear of recrimination. There is a group called Project 65 which has threatened to disbar and discipline any lawyer which represents Trump. When Dershowitz complained about that, they filed a bar complaint against him. He said that Trump has brought a lot of this on himself by his own actions and statements, but that is no excuse for distorting the justice system and violating the 6th amendment.
Again, I have no link, just repeating what he said.
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CU Medallion [58431]
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Add ...
Jun 13, 2023, 9:47 AM
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He added that pubs are responding in kind, and this election is going to turn on who is the worst criminal, and the American people deserve better.
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: Dershowitz nails it re: Trump ...
Jun 13, 2023, 9:49 AM
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MUST PROTECT DADDY!!! To hell with "law and order". Dershowitz is triggered cause DADDY can't hide behind "executive privilege" this time.
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CU Medallion [58431]
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^^^Totally triggered and misunderstands and misrepresents
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Jun 13, 2023, 9:52 AM
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everything. Same old weak troll.
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: ^^^Totally triggered and misunderstands and misrepresents
Jun 13, 2023, 10:03 AM
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Sorry Baw. The "lawyers are being intimidated" is laughable and I'm surprised you're buying it. LOL
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Heisman Winner [111695]
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Re: ^^^Totally triggered and misunderstands and misrepresents
Jun 13, 2023, 6:58 PM
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the same guy that got OJ off, but this time Trump is for real innocent.
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All-In [27151]
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I'm not buying it.
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Jun 13, 2023, 9:57 AM
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Trump brought this onto himself. If he had given the documents back upon request, he'd be skating just like everybody else. He didn't, and the DOJ dropped the hammer (I believe in relation to just how serious the documents he possessed were, against how flagrant his attempts were to obstruct justice). But again, this was his own doing. I 100000000% believe this all could have been avoided.
As for intimidating lawyers, I don't buy this for a second. The 65 project was aimed at the election lawsuits (according to the link below), and nobody in the legal profession would stand by while a group sought to intimidate counsel for a criminal defense case. Dersh is just talking out of his ass. The reason Trump is having trouble finding an attorney is because it's probably hard to find an attorney specializing in this type of legal area that's barred in Florida, who wants to deal with Trump as a client. Probably more so the latter, which again, Trump brought upon himself by being a terrible client and having an even worse track record with paying his attorneys.
https://www.influencewatch.org/organization/65-project/
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All-In [38514]
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And lawyers that work for Trump have a history
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Jun 13, 2023, 10:00 AM
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of not being paid, becoming witnesses, or charged with crimes. On top of his being a difficult client due to his words and posts.
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All-In [34113]
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Re: And lawyers that work for Trump have a history
Jun 13, 2023, 10:20 AM
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Also having their law license taken away for filing frivolous lawsuits (Rudy Giuliani).
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CU Medallion [58431]
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That's cool, but
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Jun 13, 2023, 10:07 AM
[ in reply to I'm not buying it. ] |
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"He said that Trump has brought a lot of this on himself by his own actions and statements, but that is no excuse for distorting the justice system and violating the 6th amendment."
To be clear, ZERO excuses for what Trump may have done. He is pointing out that Trump may indeed be guilty, and that the government is being abused in an effort to sqaush a political opponent. Both can be true. He goes into a lot more detail in the interview.
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All-In [27151]
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Except I don't think this has anything to do with Trump
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Jun 13, 2023, 10:11 AM
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being a political opponent. He's not being prosecuted for initially having the documents. The reason they brought charges is because he actively worked to avoid returning the documents when demanded.
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CU Medallion [58431]
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I think it has a lot to do with it.
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Jun 13, 2023, 10:16 AM
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And again, to be clear, that is not to say he is not guilty or should not be prosecuted for it.
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All-In [27151]
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I know how it looks.
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Jun 13, 2023, 10:22 AM
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But I can't be convinced Trump would be facing charges if he turned everything back over like everybody else did. And to my other point (this is not directed at you, but "the others"), I can't believe there is not outrage that Trump had these docs in the first place.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: I know how it looks.
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Jun 13, 2023, 11:11 AM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: I know how it looks.
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Jun 13, 2023, 11:21 AM
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: I know how it looks.
Jun 13, 2023, 12:12 PM
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Targeting, LOL. He was asked multiple times to return docs and he played a shell game. Beyond laughable.
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Orange Blooded [4747]
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Re: I know how it looks.
Jun 13, 2023, 5:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: I know how it looks. ] |
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I didn't think Tigernet believed in targeting.
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CU Medallion [58431]
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And is in total denial. They are either so bitterly partisan
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Jun 13, 2023, 12:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: I know how it looks. ] |
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or have such a deep, irrational hatred of Trump, or they are totally oblivious if they don't see that there has been an effort to use gubmint to get Trump from the very start.
It's like this ... there's a big difference between "Hmmmm, it has been brought to our attention that Trump may have broken some laws; we need to investigate" and "That Go@amn mutherf#ckin orange loudmouth bastage must be stopped at all cost and we have to watch him like a hawk and go after him with everything we've got any time he crosses a line".
Again, Trump may be guilty of crimes. That is not my question or my problem or concern with all of this. My concern is what drives it and therefore how it has been carried out.
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: And is in total denial. They are either so bitterly partisan
Jun 13, 2023, 12:36 PM
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How should it have been carried out?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: And is in total denial. They are either so bitterly partisan
Jun 13, 2023, 12:40 PM
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: He was given every chance to comply.
Jun 13, 2023, 12:54 PM
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: And is in total denial. They are either so bitterly partisan
Jun 13, 2023, 12:41 PM
[ in reply to And is in total denial. They are either so bitterly partisan ] |
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I'm sorry, did you miss out on the whole "lock her" up series? And now it's on to Biden? Not to mention the screaming idiots about Obama. The right got mad about him wearing a tan suit for crying out loud.
Seriously, are you kidding me, trying to say this is a democrat thing?
> It's like this ... there's a big difference between "Hmmmm, it has been brought to our attention that Trump may have broken some laws; we need to investigate" and "That Go@amn mutherf#ckin orange loudmouth bastage must be stopped at all cost and we have to watch him like a hawk and go after him with everything we've got any time he crosses a line".
Do you not hear the vitriol from the right? There are people calling for blood over this indictment.
It's laughable to say that democrats are the bloodthirsty litigious bunch.
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CU Medallion [58431]
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No, I didn't miss any of that.
Jun 13, 2023, 12:54 PM
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Any attempts to weaponize government for personal or political purposes is wrong, and all sides have been guilty. I make no claims otherwise. No excuses, it's wrong and disgusting.
Today, in June of 2023, The headline story is the indictment of Donald Trump. Dems are, in this case, the bloodthirsty partisan abusers.
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All-In [27151]
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I think we need to draw the line with executive corruption
Jun 13, 2023, 1:53 PM
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and contempt of the law, and Trump gave us a solid case for it. It could have been Hillary, but Trump didn't want to pursue it. So here we are.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Dershowitz “I kept my underwear on during the massage”
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Jun 13, 2023, 9:57 AM
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After receiving a massage at Epstein's house.
That Dershowitz?
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Oculus Spirit [83131]
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How is the justice system being abused for political
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Jun 13, 2023, 10:02 AM
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purposes?
Trump ignored the subpoena for the documents, right?
He showed them to people without the proper security clearance, right?
Who else did this?
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All-In [27151]
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What kills me, and is completely revealing of how
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Jun 13, 2023, 10:04 AM
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unprincipled the Right has become, that regardless of the criminality, there seems to be absolutely no concern at all for the type of documents Trump had. Even if Trump wasn't being prosecuted, one would think the "America First" crowd would be up in arms over a former president having critical national security secrets for no reason, even more so that they were stored unsecured.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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All-TigerNet [13155]
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All-TigerNet [11207]
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Why anyone bends over to defend that guy, I’ll never know.
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Jun 13, 2023, 10:12 AM
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This is a right vs wrong issue not right vs left…Trump is entirely responsible for his actions and no one should complain when he’s held to account. Nobody is “after him”, it’s not a “hoax@, or a “witch hunt”; the guy broke the law and is facing the consequences. And if you think this document mess is bad, wait for the election interference charges in GA.
Trump could’ve chosen to comply, but he refused. And considering the subject matter of the documents he took, it’s pretty clear he intended to make some bank on selling some of our most valuable national security secrets. So to think our government is justice system is being politicized is just foolishness.
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CU Medallion [58431]
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Again, and don't skip this part ...
Jun 13, 2023, 10:22 AM
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Trump may indeed be guilty and he certainly brought this upon himself, and to that extent should be held accountable.
It is also possible, and I think evident, that Trump has been targeted from the get-go by political opponnents, and the government has been weaponized to take him down.
The whole point is that both are true.
This is coming from someone who does not like Trump, and believes he is bad for our country. I wish he would go away. None of this is good for our country.
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All-In [34113]
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Re: Again, and don't skip this part ...
Jun 13, 2023, 10:28 AM
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Everyone targets their political opponents. The only difference with Trump is that he goes so far beyond everyone else in an amazing combination of lawlessness and stupidity.
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All-TigerNet [11207]
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That is the point, it’s not even close to true that
Jun 13, 2023, 10:29 AM
[ in reply to Again, and don't skip this part ... ] |
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Dumb Donald is being targeted. If you want to believe a washed up crooked TV lawyer, that’s on you.
I swear, the only legacy Trump is gonna leave is that he ruined the integrity of our elections and destroyed the GOP.
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: Again, and don't skip this part ...
Jun 13, 2023, 10:32 AM
[ in reply to Again, and don't skip this part ... ] |
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You believe that any investigation into Trump is "weaponization". Lol
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: Again, and don't skip this part ...
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Jun 13, 2023, 11:27 AM
[ in reply to Again, and don't skip this part ... ] |
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So when Trump literally asks Russia for help targeting Hillary, it's a witch hunt when it sounds like he is working with the russians?
When he is recorded strong arming Ukraine, he's being targeted?
When he's recorded trying to "find votes" in GA, he's being targeted?
When he steals documents and refuses to give them back and is again, recorded admitting he can't declassify them, he's being targeted?
The dude just can't help himself but commit crimes and then you guys run to his defense and claim he's a victim.
The guy has been a known sleazeball his entire life, it would be surprising if law enforcement didn't go after him.
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All-TigerNet [11207]
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Somehow people are brought in by this victim
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Jun 13, 2023, 11:31 AM
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mentality too.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: Yes
Jun 13, 2023, 12:17 PM
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It's outstanding how wrong you can be about every issue.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Yes
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Jun 13, 2023, 12:21 PM
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: Yes
Jun 13, 2023, 12:49 PM
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Ahh you’re a legend in your own mind just like Birm, except without the fun gifs.
If you can't even admit that he was trying to steal Georgia (and was lying about voting machines everywhere) you are incapable of looking at Trump in any sort of rational way.
Bush vs Gore was a crazy moment for the country, but it went to the courts and the counts.
But you would equate that to a lower like Trump trying to strong-arm a governor?
I might not like his politics, but Governor Kemp showed really integrity, unlike the 90% of elected Republicans who can't condemn his actions.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: Yes
Jun 13, 2023, 12:54 PM
[ in reply to Re: Yes ] |
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Go ahead and send me another graph that refutes your own point if you'd like.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Yes
Jun 13, 2023, 12:58 PM
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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lmao***
Jun 13, 2023, 1:13 PM
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All-In [34113]
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Re: Dershowitz nails it re: Trump ...
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Jun 13, 2023, 10:16 AM
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Dershowitz is doing what he's been doing for some years now. Using near-facts to spread big lies.
He's "nailing it" in the sense that many people will believe him without investigating the facts.
There is nothing wrong whatsoever from trying to prevent lawyers from filing frivolous lawsuits in an effort to overturn the results of a democratic election. There is something wrong with intimidating lawyers who are retained to defend Trump. Dershowitz is conflating the two.
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All-In [49176]
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CU Medallion [58431]
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That wasn't the problem for the 2 lawyers Dershowitz talked
Jun 13, 2023, 10:32 AM
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to in the last day, or others he's talked to.
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: That wasn't the problem for the 2 lawyers Dershowitz talked
Jun 13, 2023, 10:33 AM
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Did Deshowitz happen to talk to Cohen and get his opinion?
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All-In [27151]
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I flat out don't believe Dersh.
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Jun 13, 2023, 10:45 AM
[ in reply to That wasn't the problem for the 2 lawyers Dershowitz talked ] |
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I don't find him credible. And even if this is what he was told, I wouldn't believe it either. I saw some attorney interviewed recently who said he was interested because it was such an easy case, but couldn't do it because his family would give him flack. That's the public statement. Privately I'm sure he's thinking Trump is toast, the case is a loser, and working with Trump isn't worth the potential fame of being on his defense team.
If Murdaugh got effective council, this isn't some grand conspiracy. Lawyers don't like working with Trump, especially on a case that they'll be blamed personally and professionally by Trump for losing.
Again, he made this bed.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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"lawyers are being intimidated into not defending Trump"
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Jun 13, 2023, 10:29 AM
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lol..thats the best one yet.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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No, they just like getting paid.***
Jun 13, 2023, 11:29 AM
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: Dershowitz nails it re: Trump ...
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Jun 13, 2023, 10:51 AM
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Dershowitz swerved, hard, about eight or so years ago and one of the most liberal of legal scholars suddenly became an arch-conservative defender of Trump, seemingly overnight, and started hawking some really weird pro-Trump legal theories almost like it was his job. To say his abrupt about-face turned some heads in the legal world, bigly, was an understatement. One of the big questions of the early Trump administration was consistently: "What the $^&# happened to Dershowitz?"
A lot of people wonder if defending Trump might now actually be Dershowitz's job. Dershowitz was directly involved with Jeffrey Epstein and helped him get his first sweetheart deal in 2005, and two women (who were then underage, though one later recanted) in Epstein's orbit claim they were directed to have sex with Dershowitz at Epstein's behest.
How's that connect with Trump? Well, there's some really weird links with Dershowitz and Trump all over the place that...raise eyebrows, let's say. There's a bunch called the Mega Group that is vociferously pro-Israel and included Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell, and a lot of mostly Jewish businessmen who were some of the most conservative - and influential - in America. Ghislaine Maxwell's father Robert Maxwell was one of the founders of the Mega Group...and he died in a "boating accident" in 1991...Ghislaine has always insisted he was murdered. It's worth noting the Mega Group also included Meyer Lansky, one of the more notorious Jewish-American mobsters in history too. It also included the heir to the Estee Lauder cosmetics estate, was Ronald Lauder...who had been involved for 50+ years with Trump clear back to the 1970's and is one of Trump's closest associates. And obviously Trump and Epstein were boys for a good long while. (Then again, so was Bill Clinton. So again...who knows?)
I'm not even going to pretend to be able to make sense of the Byzantine threads and agenda of the Mega Group, which also has myriad ties back to the Israeli Mossad. But intriguingly, one of Trump's first actions was to unilaterally declare Jerusalem the capital of Israel, and move the US Embassy there. Which was...controversial in both the US and the Middle East, to put it mildly.
The Mega Group is really, really fascinating, and it's even more fascinating how it seems really hard to get much information on them.
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: Dershowitz nails it re: Trump ...
Jun 13, 2023, 11:34 AM
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I think that (although it took a while) Dershowitz lost his mind after 9/11. Kind of like Rudy. Like some aftermath of the trauma prevents him from thinking clearly.
But, yeah, at this point he is a professional Trump apologist, so that he wrote an editorial doing just that is as predictable as the sunrise.
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All-In [27151]
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Old men in their twilight struggling with irrelevancy.***
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Jun 13, 2023, 11:44 AM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: Dershowitz really doesn't nail it.
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Jun 13, 2023, 11:53 AM
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Lawyers keep quitting because he wants them to help him break the law and they don't want to get disbarred for lying in court.
Trump has to be the worst legal client imaginable. It doesn't help his lawyers that he never stops running his mouth, so they have to manage his cases against that. (As preposterous as his "I can declassify and take anything I want" argument is, it hurts his defense that he was caught on tape stating he never declassified anything.)
Trump runs through lawyers like Spinal Tap runs through drummers. And there is one reason for that... Trump.
As someone said on a completely unrelated post, you meet one a-hole today, he is probably an a-hole. If everyone you meet today is an a-hole, you're probably the a-hole. That's Trump and his lawyers.
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Associate AD [828]
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Joined: 4/14/09
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Here's a good piece from The Guardian explaining his problem
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Jun 13, 2023, 12:39 PM
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Clearly, the partners of the first guy mentioned didn't want the firm tarnished by an association with Trump. But toward the end of the article...
Part of the problem of recruiting new lawyers has been Trump’s reputation for being a notoriously difficult client who has a record of declining legal advice and seeking to have his lawyers act as attack dogs or political aides rather than attorneys bound by ethics rules, people close to the process said.
The other concern for the top lawyers in Florida being contacted by Trump’s advisers has been the perceived reputational damage that could come from defending the former president, the people said, not just because of his politics but also because of the strength of the indictment, which could potentially lead to years in prison.
By using Trump’s own taped admissions about retaining national defense information and the witness accounts of his employees, the indictment gave compelling evidence of Trump’s efforts to hoard the country’s most sensitive secrets and obstruct the government’s attempts to get them back.
Trump is said to still be searching for a lawyer in the mold of Roy Cohn, the ruthless New York fixer who defended and mentored him before he was later disbarred – and the fear of potentially being asked to take similar actions has been a persistent issue.
That fear has loomed large for numerous lawyers Trump’s advisers have contacted, the people said, in particular after Trump might have made Evan Corcoran, another former lawyer who withdrew from his defense in the Mar-a-Lago documents investigation, into a witness against him.
According to the indictment, after Trump was issued a subpoena last year seeking the return of any classified documents, Trump took steps to remove boxes of documents from a storage room that Corcoran intended to search through in order to find materials responsive to the subpoena.
The steps Trump took to have those boxes removed from the storage room, an episode now at the heart of the obstruction charge, caused Corcoran to certify a false certification to the justice department confirming that no further documents were at the property, the indictment said.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/13/trump-finds-no-new-lawyers-mar-a-lago-documents-arraignment?utm_term=64885a45e945f5048220e2a198adf20b&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUS&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUS_email
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110%er [9034]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9795
Joined: 4/27/13
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largest mafia in the world
Jun 13, 2023, 12:52 PM
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uncle sam
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All-In [42197]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38274
Joined: 11/30/98
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Trump deserves everything he's getting...
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Jun 13, 2023, 4:33 PM
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And probably a lot more. He's not a victim in any of this in any way, shape, or form. He brought this on himself.
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All-In [38514]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 47162
Joined: 10/28/02
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And was given multiple opportunities to rectify.***
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Jun 13, 2023, 4:41 PM
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Replies: 59
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