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110%er [7179]
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DE. My speculation.
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Jul 23, 2023, 7:53 PM
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I think right now the starters are Mascol and XT. Followed by Zaire Patterson and Cade Denhoff. But, who can provide depth after that?
I have a couple names who are not listed as DE specifically; but players who I think will be cross-trained as DE.
They are:
AJ Hoffler 6'5 235
Stephiylan Green 6'4 275
David Ojiegbe 6'4 240
All freshmen. All, looking at sitting behind some very talented and already deep group of DTs.
Levi Matthews is actually listed as a DE; he is very intriguing to me. Played WR and Safety in H.S. and is 6'5 and 215 lbs. Also played basketball and was good. His problem was the small school he came from and "not camping a whole bunch"!
I think he and J. Lawson could end up being surprise help as well at DE if they had good RS years and put on some weight. We will see at the weigh-in what they come in as.
I see people talk about positions we are thin at and, rarely see this group. In my opinion; with the talent we have at DT, they can end up setting a pretty table for our LBs. Even if they aren't Carter, Trotter, or Woodaz.
But, at DE, if you can't at least threaten the opposing team's QB or rush him a bit and make him move his feet some - you're in trouble. This group has to have athletes to can bend, run and hold up in run support.
Woods is athletic enough to play the position; that would be a good look.
What are your thoughts football tnet posters? This is the type of thing the preseason speculation board(message boards like this) are made for. None of us have a clue and it's all speculation and guess work. But, it passes the time doesn't it.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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110%er [9184]
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Re: DE. My speculation.
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Jul 23, 2023, 8:13 PM
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Denhoff will never play for us, if he does we are in trouble
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All-Conference [411]
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Couldn’t agree me, I just see no
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Jul 23, 2023, 8:28 PM
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Reason to start Mascoll either, no upside at all, start Parker or Woods, let’s not waste anyone’s time here!
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110%er [7155]
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Re: Couldn’t agree me, I just see no
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Jul 24, 2023, 9:05 AM
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Many of us u derestimate Mascoll.
He has played quality snaps since arriving, but was overshadowed at DE by Myles Murphy.
Mascoll runs very well. Not M.Murphy fast (also not M.M. big). Nevertheless, he will be bigger this year and will probably retain his speed. Mascoll will be a genuine star for us this year, maybe an All ACC type season.
With his experience, Mascoll may end up playing both DE positions. I hope not, since a fully healthy and durable XT is clearly the best circumstance for everybody.
Woods would be best as 2nd string DE behind Mascoll to start the season. This scenario depends on XT being fully healthy. Is XT isn’t fully healthy, then Woods will need to start at LDE and Mascoll to start at RDE. Otherwise (healthy XT, then Mascoll starts the season at RDE.). If Woods slaughters opposing teams’ LTs, then he’ll move into a starting role, with Mascoll playing many snaps as a critically important backup RDE. (Remember that Spring practice did not have Woods play against anyone with starters experience at LT. Woods will need to get accustomed to going against first team LTs. Mascoll has played extensively against starting LTs and has done OK.)
At the LDE, even with a healthy XT it might be the best move to not wear him down with an excessively high snap count. Keep our pass rushing sprinter fresh and breathing fire for passing situations. In this scenario, Mascoll would get ~ equal snaps with XT, and Parker would get ~ 10% of the snaps.
(*). It’s hard to imagine any significant snaps at DE going beyond XT, Mascoll, Woods, and Parker. Denhoff and Patterson? They’ll have to show in fall practice that they made huge strides if they are to get snaps outside of garbage time. Lawson isn’t ready yet. We shouldn’t be burning any candles hoping that our other two true FR DEs are ready to win games for us.
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All-In [27193]
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Re: Couldn’t agree me, I just see no
Jul 24, 2023, 9:51 AM
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Mascoll has serious problems setting the edge.
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Orange Blooded [3961]
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Re: DE. My speculation.
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Jul 23, 2023, 8:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: DE. My speculation. ] |
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I could be wrong but I believe he’s more of the run/edge setting DE. You will not see him getting pressure or sacking QBs or dropping onto coverage. I do feel he’s got the strength to set a hard edge and stuff runs.
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110%er [7179]
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Re: DE. My speculation.
Jul 23, 2023, 9:09 PM
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Yeah, besides XT, Zaire Patterson probably has the best next-level raw ability.
I've seen all the comments from coaches about Patterson, "putting it all together and playing like he means it"!
Sounds like he is squandering a golden opportunity! Mascol God loves him; has not really even flashed that I have seen. Mind you, a tackle or two isn't flashing. What I mean, is making dominant plays every so often, even if not consistently. XT I think could, but hasn't been healthy since arriving on campus.
I have seen many people's "group to watch list"! My biggest group to watch is DE, w/o questions. We have to pressure the QB and make QB's move their feet to change the launch point and comfort level.
I've seen Coach Hall comment on Lawson being perhaps a kid you could use in obvious passing downs as part of a pass-rushing personnel set. Hoping we get teams in obvious passing downs and we can put that pure pass rush on the field. Teams often screen in those situations; which is also where you want fast-twitch personnel.
Why are you so sure Denhoff will never play for us? What did I miss? Dude was a 4-star prospect from Lakeland, FL.
https://247sports.com/player/cade-denhoff-46082006/
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Orange Blooded [2488]
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Re: DE. My speculation.
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Jul 23, 2023, 9:35 PM
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Skinny kid from Lakeland Christian...not Lakeland High School.
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110%er [7179]
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Re: DE. My speculation.
Jul 24, 2023, 6:17 PM
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Skinny kid from Lakeland Christian...not Lakeland High School.
Ahhh, I just saw that. I thought he came from that Dreadnought program! Interesting!
His size is listed at: 6'5 and 255 lbs. Which is about what Clelin Ferrell weighed his sophomore year.
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Orange Blooded [3961]
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Re: DE. My speculation.
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Jul 23, 2023, 8:35 PM
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Green is 100% a DT and the most unlikely to play DE. Woods will probably be the one providing depth at DE this year.
You are correct as far as starters go. I do think Cade Denhoff will be a second string as well. Patterson is a question mark. From what I remember he’s not been all in.
I foresee Parker, woods and Denhoff all getting about the same snaps in that second team role. Hoffler and David O will be the 3rd string.
Patterson like I said will have to show he wants to play and be here or he’ll be in the portal.
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110%er [9903]
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Re: DE. My speculation.
Jul 25, 2023, 4:41 PM
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This^
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Team Captain [465]
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Re: DE. My speculation.
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Jul 23, 2023, 9:24 PM
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Peter Woods, since there is so much depth at DT. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 3-man DE rotation of XT, Mascoll, & Woods. Second team will depend upon whoever are the next top 3 DE's coming out of the Fall Camp competition. Too close to call at this stage, or rather, no freshman or upperclassman has proven their stuff yet.
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110%er [7155]
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Re: DE. My speculation.
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Jul 24, 2023, 9:11 AM
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Three man DL front would probably be:
Mascoll / T.Davis / Ruke
Woods / P.Page / Ruke
Brutes who can run at DE and brutish beasts at DT are needed when running 3 man DL sets.
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110%er [6900]
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XT??***
Jul 24, 2023, 9:47 AM
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All-In [27193]
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Re: DE. My speculation.
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Jul 24, 2023, 9:50 AM
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Patterson is not ready and I'm not sold on Denhof just yet. Depth is a real issue. Just my $0.02 worth.
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110%er [6153]
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Just illustrates how speculative the whole recruiting biz is
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Jul 24, 2023, 11:17 AM
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Both Patterson and Denhoff are guys who, if we had just received their verbal for the upcoming 2024 class, would have us doing cartwheels, shouting how we’d signed two solid DEs in our absolutely LOADED upcoming group of recruits.
Now after we’ve had them on campus for a couple of years, we see them as potential washouts …
Did we just miss on our recruiting assessments or is there another reason these guys haven’t lived up to their hype?
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110%er [7497]
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My guess - just a bunch of impatient posters
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Jul 24, 2023, 11:46 AM
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who think every kid that comes in should be able to start immediately even though these 2 have had NFL talent/veterans in front of them since they have been here. They finally have an opportunity this year for 2nd string snaps. It will be interesting to see what they can bring to the table. If not up to it then we’ll have to try some green guys who while athletic are going to make mistakes and probably blow more assignments due to inexperience.
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110%er [7535]
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Re: My guess - just a bunch of impatient posters
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Jul 24, 2023, 3:44 PM
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I think this is definitely part of it.
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110%er [7179]
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Re: Just illustrates how speculative the whole recruiting biz is
Jul 24, 2023, 6:14 PM
[ in reply to Just illustrates how speculative the whole recruiting biz is ] |
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Both Patterson and Denhoff are guys who, if we had just received their verbal for the upcoming 2024 class, would have us doing cartwheels, shouting how we’d signed two solid DEs in our absolutely LOADED upcoming group of recruits.
Now after we’ve had them on campus for a couple of years, we see them as potential washouts …
Did we just miss on our recruiting assessments or is there another reason these guys haven’t lived up to their hype?
This is my "confusion" if you will Due West on the DE-room.
I've heard more than a few comments about Patterson and Denhoff not being ready - but as you pointed out - they both came in with a lot of hype and "stars"!
To your point; you can't always believe the star rating! But, hard to believe we whiffed that badly???
Maybe these guys just needed time "to get it"! At least, that is what I am hoping!
BTW, to everyone who has contributed so far, "I appreciate you talking a little preseason fan speculation football with me. And not overthinking it like we are trying to be the coach. It's just fun to speculate how things are going to go".
Thank you!
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All-TigerNet [10640]
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Re: DE. My speculation.
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Jul 24, 2023, 12:31 PM
[ in reply to Re: DE. My speculation. ] |
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I think Denhof is a "crock pot" type player that just needed to get bigger and stronger, but Has the potential to come on strong this year. I will de disappointed if he doesn't have an outstanding year and get a significant amount of playing time.
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Head Coach [797]
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Re: DE. My speculation.
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Jul 24, 2023, 12:21 PM
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I could see Ruke possibly sliding over to DE to cover some snaps. Page, cape hart, and Tre Williams have all shown they can play meaningful DT snaps
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CU Medallion [65529]
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XT has been so snakebit by injuries, I just hope he can MAKE
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Jul 24, 2023, 6:05 PM
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the season opener, much less start it. I pray for him to finally have that one good year where he stays healthy, just to show the NFL scouts what he still has.
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Legend [17616]
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Payton Page graded as our top DT vs Tenn
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Jul 24, 2023, 6:36 PM
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Ruke's PFF grade in the bowl game (46) shows he was absolutely manhandled. My point is Page can greatly help DT rotation and Woods may be our top defensive lineman - he is practicing at both DT and DE. I look for him to start at DE, with Mascoll rotating in, by game 4. Hopefully, XT and TD13 can stay healthy, and freshmen and redshirts can step up. If healthy, this group can excel.
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110%er [7179]
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Re: Payton Page graded as our top DT vs Tenn
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Jul 24, 2023, 6:53 PM
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SocMan2® That's interesting!
AT DT, I am saying it here 1st, of all the names I keep hearing, Demonte Capehart is the one, I hear the least.
I feel like from the few snaps I saw of him; even if he didn't make the play he was around the ball. His problem has been staying healthy!
Even if Davis isn't 100% - I feel great with the guys behind him. Same with Ruke.
I'm calling it now; a healthy Capehart "has the potential" to take snaps from Ruke! That sounds silly, but people really haven't seen this kid at 100%. Watch and remember(bookmark this).
Socman2 - how are you feeling about DE specifically? What did PFF say about Mascol? Mascol to me is a good serviceable DE. He does what he is supposed to, but doesn't really jump out at you with his playmaking ability.
As others have said, "maybe our DT group can be so dominant that we keep people in 3rd and long where we can deploy some of the lighter pure pass rush younger guys for that burst needed to get to and affect the QB"!
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110%er [9184]
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Re: Payton Page graded as our top DT vs Tenn
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Jul 24, 2023, 7:08 PM
[ in reply to Payton Page graded as our top DT vs Tenn ] |
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I think Page has a monster break out year. Covid really hurt him (not getting it but no season and getting out of shape). He’s worked hard to get that weight off, our DT group is going to cause big time problems for other teams this year…. Really pumped
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110%er [7179]
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Re: Payton Page graded as our top DT vs Tenn
Jul 24, 2023, 9:15 PM
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I hope you're right!
Last year with Bresee and Davis injuries, it really showed the need for quality depth at the DT position.
I'm hoping we can pressure the QB a lot more this season! Keeping a fresh body in there who can be disruptive on every snap vs. an OL who has to play the whole game for the most part should benefit us greatly.
DE keeps me up at night. Nothing else on this years edition of the Tigers football team. I love our depth at all other positions even LB; because we have a safety or two who fit in nicely(Mickens) id need be. And, some of the young guys we brought in will likely have to learn by fire. The starters at LB are awesome. The young guys are a talented bunch; who just need some seasoning!
Love our safeties and CB too! QB room is stacked. RB is stacked. I believe all the OL are 4-star or higher; so are their backups! WR's are mostly 4-star. But, look what Clemson has done with non-4-star or higher wide receivers(Humphries, Renfrow). The latest edition being Cole Turner! So, I love that room too; especially in this offense where they won't have to go solve space-time-continuim while running routes! They just get to go be athletes!
I started this post; because I wanted somebody to post something that made me feel as good about the DE room!
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110%er [6397]
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Re: DE. My speculation.
Jul 25, 2023, 8:58 AM
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1st: XT - Mascoll
2nd: Parker - Denhoff
3rd: Hoffler - Patterson
4th: Lawson - Ojiegbe
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110%er [7179]
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Peter Woods will get lots of run at DE
Jul 25, 2023, 12:31 PM
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Going back and "reading the tea leaves" it seems like the plan is to get Peter Woods time at DE. He is too talented and we are not deep enough at DE for him not to play. Given our depth and experience at DT, we can afford to have him cover the edge.
I hope XT and Mascol have one of those - "lightbulb moments where it all comes together and they end up dominant and healthy all season"!
We shall see how everyone does in camp soon enough. I'm just anxious about this one spot on the 2023 edition. Woods getting lots of reps; eases my anxiety a lot.
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110%er [6397]
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Re: Peter Woods will get lots of run at DE
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Jul 25, 2023, 1:25 PM
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Yeah, Woods will definitely play at DE. I was just predicting a depth chart and Woods will be listed at DT, IMO.
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110%er [7179]
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Re: Peter Woods will get lots of run at DE
Jul 25, 2023, 6:13 PM
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Yeah, Woods will definitely play at DE. I was just predicting a depth chart and Woods will be listed at DT, IMO.
Yeah, I get what you are saying. He is most certainly a DT for the next level.
I think for us; on traditional 50/50 plays like 1st down - he could play DE for us. Word is he is quick enough to do it.
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