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All-TigerNet [10674]
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Clemson fans need to pay attention to this...
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Mar 12, 2023, 10:54 PM
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In this year's NCAA Tournament, 5 schools have first year head coaches at the helm. None of these schools made the tournament in 2022.
Chris Jans – Mississippi State
Kevin Willard – Maryland
Sean Miller – Xavier
Dennis Gates – Missouri
Jerome Tang – Kansas State
Of these schools, only Missouri & Maryland made it in 2021. Miss St, Maryland, Kansas State made it in 2019.
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All-TigerNet [13959]
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They probably had stronger schedule strengths
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Mar 12, 2023, 11:02 PM
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Our opponents were just ranked to low to help us out. Just an unfortunate event this year. CBB will have us back.
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All-In [30460]
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We are back… back in the NIT
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Mar 12, 2023, 11:10 PM
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CU Guru [1390]
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Re: They probably had stronger schedule strengths
Mar 13, 2023, 12:06 AM
[ in reply to They probably had stronger schedule strengths ] |
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He never had us there!!! He has had more than enough time and new blood is needed. NIT us s joke
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Orange Blooded [3965]
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CU Guru [1150]
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CU Guru [1105]
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It’s not the fans that need to pay attention it’s the school administration
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Mar 12, 2023, 11:03 PM
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And they do not care about at all about making the NCAA tournament. The team beat Duke, they made the NIT which was a big deal in the 50’s when they were in college, and that’s plenty good enough for them.
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All-In [44054]
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Many Clemson people just want to be good at football.
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Mar 12, 2023, 11:09 PM
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Football not only pays the bills, but it is also their social outlet and a large potion of their identity. For them, football success brings prestige and notoriety, and makes them feel good about themselves in their social circles.
They view basketball as an inferior sport that isn’t worth caring nearly as much about, if at all. Basketball is a sport for those other schools, not Clemson. We are a football school and proud of it, and aren’t going to do anything to jeopardize that.
Don’t get me wrong, they are fine with us having a good basketball team. Some even want it, but only on their own terms - and as long as it doesn’t hurt football or our football image.
This has been the case at Clemson for generations. I have hope that it won’t always be that way.
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All-TigerNet [13530]
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Re: Many Clemson people just want to be good at football.
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Mar 12, 2023, 11:19 PM
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I think the social aspect attached to football is very real. For many of us who attended Clemson, it was a part of our identity. I didn't, but many of my friends met their significant others as part of Football season activities. As young kids, many of us grew up on football because of our fathers and their love of the sport. I know some of this also occurs with basketball but probably not nearly to the same extent. And, the success of football has only increased its popularity.
I hate that people want to fight so hard to defend or tear down the programs based solely on individual favoritism of the two sports. I really do wish we could just be Clemson fans of both sports. Look, I get aggravated and frustrated when people take shots at the football program and then I have times when I want to lash out and get even. Maybe I'm not always proud of that but I will admit to also enjoying giving and taking the needle every now and then.
I don't have a good answer on how to fix this but at least I can admit to its existence and maybe try and be a bit more diplomatic from time to time.
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CU Guru [1105]
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You’re absolutely right. Which is why sticking with Brownell for so long is infuriating
Mar 12, 2023, 11:19 PM
[ in reply to Many Clemson people just want to be good at football. ] |
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If we’re a don’t really care about basketball school, which we are, why not do a Ga Tech thing and try a new coach every four or five years and maybe you’ll get lucky? Even if you don’t really care, at least try to make it look like you care.
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Hall of Famer [24226]
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Tell 'em coot, no one knows losing better than you
Mar 13, 2023, 12:00 AM
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110%er [6453]
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Re: Many Clemson people just want to be good at football.
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Mar 12, 2023, 11:20 PM
[ in reply to Many Clemson people just want to be good at football. ] |
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And what are these “terms” that you speak of that keep Clemson Basketball from succeeding like these other programs have? How would Clemson having a successful basketball program hurt football?
So, Clemson Football is holding Clemson Basketball back?
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Rock Defender [54]
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All-In [44054]
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Alabama spends a lot more than we do on men’s basketball.
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Mar 12, 2023, 11:56 PM
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They also have a much better fan turnout than we do.
So yes, they are passionate about football like we are, but unlike us, they aren’t unwilling to support basketball well.
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Orange Blooded [3965]
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Re: Alabama spends a lot more than we do on men’s basketball.
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Mar 13, 2023, 6:53 AM
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You look at what the bring in compare to us? They are lightyears ahead on us in income. Also you think money is what made them good at basketball? No. They hired a great coach who can “recruit”
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Varsity [237]
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Re: Alabama spends a lot more than we do on men’s basketball.
Mar 13, 2023, 8:29 AM
[ in reply to Alabama spends a lot more than we do on men’s basketball. ] |
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Alabama
Coach From▼ To Yrs G W L W-L% CREG CTRN NCAA
Nate Oats 2020 2023 4 131 90 41 .687 2 2 3
Avery Johnson 2016 2019 4 137 75 62 .547 0 0 1
John Brannen 2015 2015 1 2 1 1 .500 0 0 0
Anthony Grant 2010 2015 6 202 117 85 .579 1 0 1
Philip Pearson 2009 2009 1 13 6 7 .462 0 0 0
Mark Gottfried 1999 2009 11 341 210 131 .616 2 0 5
Clemson
Coach From To Yrs G W L W-L% CREG CTRN NCAA
Brad Brownell 2011 2023 13 417 241 176 .578 0 0 3
Oliver Purnell 2004 2010 7 226 138 88 .611 0 0 3
Larry Shyatt 1999 2003 5 154 70 84 .455 0 0 0
Alabama is no more a Basketball school than Clemson. They have had six coaches in the time that Clemson has had 3 coaches. Both have similar records. The one difference is Nate Oats. They had 2 NCAA appearances in 12 years, then 3 in 4 years. Coaching made the difference.
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CU Guru [1390]
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Re: Many Clemson people just want to be good at football.
Mar 13, 2023, 12:09 AM
[ in reply to Many Clemson people just want to be good at football. ] |
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Get it right …. Your boy Brad is an inferior coach. He has had more than enough time to prove himself and he proved he can’t do the job. Now continue your love fest .
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Hall of Famer [22741]
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Many Clemson people want to be good in everything Clemson
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Mar 13, 2023, 7:33 AM
[ in reply to Many Clemson people just want to be good at football. ] |
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We would love to be able to celebrate success in basketball if we had the opportunity. I haven’t seen anyone on here who thinks having success in basketball would “hurt” our football program except you. It’s really quite the opposite. Success in any sports program will help all of our sports programs. Look at what is happening at Alabama. Their recent success in basketball isn’t hurting their football program. If anything it is helping by bringing even more attention to the Alabama brand. You are one of a very few people on this site that continually pits our basketball program against our football program. You constantly post that the success of our football program somehow “hurts” our basketball program. The only one who is hurt here is you.
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CU Medallion [64593]
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Actually...
Mar 13, 2023, 8:24 AM
[ in reply to Many Clemson people just want to be good at football. ] |
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most people firmly believe that there is absolutely no justifiable reason Clemson can't be great at both football and basketball.
Retaining a mediocre coach for thirteen years is proof positive that it is, in fact, the administration that does not care.
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CU Medallion [58430]
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And all of those except Maryland have smaller basketball
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Mar 12, 2023, 11:07 PM
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budgets than us.
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CU Guru [1579]
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Re: And all of those except Maryland have smaller basketball
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Mar 12, 2023, 11:10 PM
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But what about their pep bands?
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All-In [44054]
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What do each of those schools spend on men’s basketball?
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Mar 12, 2023, 11:16 PM
[ in reply to And all of those except Maryland have smaller basketball ] |
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Also, how have those teams done for the last 3-4 years compared to us?
Anyone can have one good year. Investments in the program are about building a foundation for more consistent success.
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Lot o points [155972]
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Less than us.***
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Mar 12, 2023, 11:17 PM
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All-In [44054]
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Great, someone show me the numbers.
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Mar 12, 2023, 11:19 PM
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I’d love to see how they compare.
I also want to see how their wins over the last few years compare to ours.
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Lot o points [155972]
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Bruh, I don’t do research for free.***
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Mar 12, 2023, 11:20 PM
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CU Medallion [58430]
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CU Medallion [58430]
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The numbers are included on a link that I believe you
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Mar 12, 2023, 11:28 PM
[ in reply to What do each of those schools spend on men’s basketball? ] |
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provided earlier. Maybe it wasn't you, but I'm not digging it back up, but I know this:
Missouri spent slightly more than us, in the same range, and here's their record over Brownell's tenure at Clemson:
Look at Missouri, who has an almost identical budget to ours ... They have SIX NCAAT appearances since 2010, having played SEVEN NCAAT games.
Kansas State has a smaller budget, yet they have EIGHT NCAAT appearances since 2010 with SEVENTEEN total NCAAT games played over that time.
Xavier has a smaller budget than ours, and they have EIGHT NCAAT appearances since 2010, having played NINETEEN tournament games during that time.
I've posted quite a few more. It's not a rare exception; a lot of teams with similar or lower budgets have outperformed us over Brownell's tenure and in recent years. That proves that it's not unreasonable at all for us to have higher expectations as is.
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110%er [5512]
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Re: The numbers are included on a link that I believe you
Mar 12, 2023, 11:40 PM
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Careful. Relevant facts cause you to get on JK’s ignore list. When he’s beat, he quits.
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Orange Blooded [3628]
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Re: The numbers are included on a link that I believe you
Mar 13, 2023, 5:48 AM
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We have a donkey in the world of horses for BB coaches. Mediocre expectations and coaching = the same results. Be happy with the NIT, a lofty goal Brad hadn’t reached in the last few years. So, I guess he has improved..we’re striving for 69th.
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All-TigerNet [10674]
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Legend [16027]
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Re: The numbers are included on a link that I believe you
Mar 12, 2023, 11:58 PM
[ in reply to The numbers are included on a link that I believe you ] |
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But their football program as average to below average. Very few schools can be successful in both football and basketball. At least that’s my opinion.
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CU Medallion [58430]
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Alabama, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Michigan, K-State,
Mar 13, 2023, 12:21 AM
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Notre Dame, Florida, Texas, Wisconsin, Baylor, Iowa, and Southern Cal all say "hello".
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Legend [16027]
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Re: And all of those except Maryland have smaller basketball
Mar 12, 2023, 11:47 PM
[ in reply to And all of those except Maryland have smaller basketball ] |
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Are you referring to the budget of ACC schools or NCAA Tournament schools ? Not sure what point you are trying to make ??
Another poster indicated 4 schools with 1st year HC’s made the tournament. If you are including Duke then I would have to eliminate them. They have been a top team sine Coach K came to Duke.
As long as I can remember every HC has lost games they should have won. Example in NCAA Tournament with less that 2 seconds left Uncon inbounded the ball and bet I with a 3 point shot. Tree Rollins missed a shot a basic layup the rolled across the back of the rim. We have had leads at UNC Chapel Hill with seconds left and we still lost. That’s the Clemson basketball I have watched for many years. From Tates Locke to Brad Brownell.
IMO if Clemson wants to be more relevant as a basketball school year down LJ and build an area that’s days wow I want to play basketball here. Facilities matter to schools like Clemson trying to catch up with the Tobacco Row Schools.
I believe the NCAA gave Clemson the Big Screw keeping us out of the NCAA Tournament this year. We gave NC State 3 beat downs this year. They are in we are out. We had a total of 5 Wins against schools who got in and but we did not get in. I believe they kept us out to give the NIT some quality teams. IMO it was all about TV revenue. It’s all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$ !
It’s all about the money and the politics !
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CU Medallion [58430]
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A lot of schools have lower basketball budgets than us, but
Mar 13, 2023, 7:33 AM
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have been more successful than us over Brownell's tenure at Clemson. Not just ACC schools, but accross all conferences.
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Standout [340]
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Re: Clemson fans need to pay attention to this...
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Mar 12, 2023, 11:53 PM
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Clemson fans need to pay attention to the fact that if a NC school had our exact resume they would (are) be in the tournament. We got screwed because they committee knows they can give us the shaft and the ACC won’t even give up a whimper. I tired as hell of carrying this #### conference and still being treated like some red headed stepchild. We have got to find a way out. The ACC can shrivel up and die as far as I’m concerned. Screw them.
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Orange Blooded [3965]
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Re: Clemson fans need to pay attention to this...
Mar 13, 2023, 6:25 AM
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Love this!
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