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Replies: 157
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All-TigerNet [11664]
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Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
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Oct 25, 2023, 9:51 PM
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At this point, possible 22 deceased!!
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Legend [19933]
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All-TigerNet [10936]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
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Oct 25, 2023, 11:21 PM
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Where were the permitted carriers?
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
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Oct 25, 2023, 11:27 PM
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Chances are, those were businesses that had signs saying no concealed weapons/guns...so they prevented good citizens from defending themselves.
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Orange Blooded [4970]
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Concealed carry (Pistol) vs. Rifle is a ridiculous thought
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Oct 26, 2023, 8:17 AM
[ in reply to Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine ] |
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and the "good guy with a gun" scenario is a failed talking NRA point.
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110%er [5038]
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Re: Concealed carry (Pistol) vs. Rifle is a ridiculous thought***
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Oct 26, 2023, 8:24 AM
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In close quarters, I'd much rather have the pistol.
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Legend [19933]
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Re: Concealed carry (Pistol) vs. Rifle is a ridiculous thought***
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Oct 26, 2023, 8:29 AM
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Doesn't matter what it comes out of
... it only takes one bullet to neutralize a shooter.
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110%er [5038]
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Re: Concealed carry (Pistol) vs. Rifle is a ridiculous thought***
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Oct 26, 2023, 8:35 AM
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What matters in a gunfight is how fast you can get on target - a good pistol shooter wins in close quarters.
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All-TigerNet [13253]
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Concealed carry (Pistol) vs. Rifle is a ridiculous thought***
Oct 26, 2023, 7:18 PM
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And, thank goodness around 1.5 million will be able to continue to debate this, this year alone, since guns have not been banned or severely restricted...yet!
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All-TigerNet [13253]
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Nobody is driving around in tanks
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Oct 26, 2023, 7:49 PM
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or blackhawks or F18's
Somewhere the line has to be drawn. Personally, I think guns used in war, or guns that mimic the same firepower, fire rate and damage should be 100% off limits to anyone in the states, except Police.
Extra large magazines, bump stocks, AR15s are not needed. Sport or not, I don't care what anyone says. Those things don't make a person's life complete or restrict freedom.
Pistols and hunting rifles are fine. I'm okay with carrying permits too. But I'm also okay with red flag laws, longer wait times, screening for those with mental health issues and gun buy back programs. I also think those Parents that have kids/relatives with Mental health Issues should be required to have safes with biometric safes.
What I'm 100% not okay is no action whatsoever, or the thought that everyone must carry a gun to "feel" safe.
Just like people don't want to have the Freedoms restricted, there are those that feel the same on the opposite side of the issue and be forced to carry a gun.
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Orange Blooded [4970]
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Easy for you to say that...
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Oct 26, 2023, 8:32 AM
[ in reply to Re: Concealed carry (Pistol) vs. Rifle is a ridiculous thought*** ] |
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But cops who do this for a living have frozen up in these scenarios. You can't expect a citizen with a Canik to do what they won't.
TSU did a study of 464 attacks and civilians only stopped them before police on 73 occasions. In 67% of those 73 occasions bystanders used physical force to subdue the attacker. Only 24 of 464 were stopped by the "good guy with a gun". That's a grand total of 5% and this includes off-duty police, security guards, and citizens.
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CU Guru [1959]
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Re: Easy for you to say that...
Oct 26, 2023, 8:58 AM
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Well, there you go proving how easy it is for you to say that. These discussions always separate the zombies from those of us who won't die when the shooting starts. That is as long as we have a little warning. Of course some will die, but far fewer.
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CU Guru [1374]
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Re: Easy for you to say that...
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Oct 26, 2023, 9:03 AM
[ in reply to Easy for you to say that... ] |
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What are you trying to prove here? Even if it’s 5% it’s worth it to carry. Lives were saved because they had the gun to stop the shooter. Regardless of it only being 24 times. That’s 24 times it could’ve been much worse with out intervention.
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All-In [38124]
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Re: Easy for you to say that...
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Oct 26, 2023, 9:20 AM
[ in reply to Easy for you to say that... ] |
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I guess it makes better sense to just let the criminals have the guns. Even cops should not have a gun... this would completely eliminate the problem.
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CU Guru [1020]
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73 is a lot better than zero.
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Oct 26, 2023, 11:43 AM
[ in reply to Easy for you to say that... ] |
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You just mythbusted your own talking point.
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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Stupid is as....***
Oct 27, 2023, 10:35 PM
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Re: Easy for you to say that...
Oct 26, 2023, 6:56 PM
[ in reply to Easy for you to say that... ] |
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5% is probably a pretty good stat if you or someone you love is part of it.
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Freshman [-100]
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Re: Concealed carry (Pistol) vs. Rifle is a ridiculous thought
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Oct 26, 2023, 10:35 AM
[ in reply to Concealed carry (Pistol) vs. Rifle is a ridiculous thought ] |
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Well, if you don't allow the good gut to have a gun.
Law abiding citizens will not carry in places where not allowed, but psychos like this do.
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Orange Blooded [4790]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
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Oct 25, 2023, 10:27 PM
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Tragic and prayers for all involved
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110%er [6474]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
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Oct 25, 2023, 10:47 PM
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Dems will be screaming gun control again.
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Commissioner [934]
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Dont we all think guns should not be in the hands of criminals and crazies ?***
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Oct 25, 2023, 11:01 PM
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Dont we all think guns should not be in the hands of criminals and crazies ?***
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Oct 25, 2023, 11:09 PM
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Gun control measures only take guns from people who follow the laws...criminals will get them no matter how many laws you make.
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Orange Blooded [2420]
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Re: Dont we all think guns should not be in the hands of criminals and crazies ?***
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Oct 25, 2023, 11:18 PM
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You can't explain this to a liberal . . . .
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All-In [44054]
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Re: You might want to look at the data for other countries.
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Oct 25, 2023, 11:25 PM
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If you take out the liberal strongholds like Chicago, NY, LA, etc, our gun deaths would be the 4th lowest in the world...And those liberal strongholds have the toughest gun control laws, so that is counterintuitive to your thoughts on gun control.
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All-In [25010]
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The those cities have strict gun laws argument is so bad .
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Oct 26, 2023, 12:28 AM
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When guns can very easily be brought in from nearby areas. Like the Chicago gangs get tons of their guns from nearby Indiana where there are very few gun laws. It’s a piece of cake
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110%er [5063]
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Re: The those cities have strict gun laws argument is so bad .
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Oct 26, 2023, 12:32 AM
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Which then proves the point that criminals will get the guns, while the good people will not! See how that works? If we outlaw all guns in this country, then the criminals will get them from Mexico! See HOW THAT WORKS? Your argument is completely invalid.
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Athletic Dir [890]
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Re: The those cities have strict gun laws argument is so bad .
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Oct 26, 2023, 12:45 AM
[ in reply to The those cities have strict gun laws argument is so bad . ] |
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Kinda like fentanyl. Illegal everywhere but it still is easily got by people who want it. Laws only stop honest people and set the price for criminals. Same with gun laws. Except without gun laws you can defend you and your family.
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: The those cities have strict gun laws argument is so bad .
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Oct 26, 2023, 4:52 AM
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Laws wont stop honest people. Honest people will get their guns. They might stop some crazy people though, and even criminals who dont know where to get guns illegally, or someone who wants to kill themselves. I know many felons and its not like everyone knows someone to go get a gun easily. Honest people will never have a problem owning a gun in life. Worst case there would be a stricter background check with a waiting period. Big deal.
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CU Guru [1796]
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Re: The those cities have strict gun laws argument is so bad .
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Oct 26, 2023, 7:46 AM
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Please work on your argument. I don't think you are convincing anyone.
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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Convinced me. He knows "many felons."
Oct 27, 2023, 10:38 PM
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Asst Coach [702]
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Re: The those cities have strict gun laws argument is so bad .
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Oct 26, 2023, 4:44 AM
[ in reply to The those cities have strict gun laws argument is so bad . ] |
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Then why aren't there way more shootings in the areas outside of Chicago? Where the gangs are supposedly buying their weapons? If it's a gun problem, and not a gang problem, then we would be talking about Indiana, not Chicago.
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: The those cities have strict gun laws argument is so bad .
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Oct 26, 2023, 6:59 AM
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There are way more shootings per capita outside of Chicago in the USA all over the place. It all comes down to culture and poverty anyway though.
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110%er [6474]
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110%er [5063]
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Re: The those cities have strict gun laws argument is so bad .
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Oct 26, 2023, 7:21 PM
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This has already been proven a bad argument, if we ban guns, then the criminals would just get them in Mexico or elsewhere...Which proves your argument invalid. So, banning guns will only take guns from good people, of whom, about 1.5 million lives are saved by carrying guns legally each year in our country.
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: You might want to look at the data for other countries.
Oct 26, 2023, 8:30 AM
[ in reply to Re: You might want to look at the data for other countries. ] |
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That’s volume not death rates. Take those cities out and our gun related death rates will go up even higher.
Check death rates by state and something tells me that 7 of top 10 states will be red. And South Carolina will definitely be in there. Ironically NY will be very very low.
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CU Guru [1692]
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Re: You might want to look at the data for other countries.
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Oct 26, 2023, 11:17 AM
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7 of the top 10 are red states? The latest data from the CDC (2021) shows the top 13 are all solidly red states. 14 is Georgia which is a traditionally red state. 15 is a purple state (Nevada). You have to go down to 18 to get to a solidly blue state (Colorado). It's all but guaranteed the response will be some ignorant form of "FAKE NEWS", but the actual population adjusted statistics constantly identify red states as the worst states for gun violence.
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110%er [5063]
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Re: You might want to look at the data for other countries.
Oct 26, 2023, 11:25 AM
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Please give your reference for this information...Otherwise, it is not true!
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CU Guru [1692]
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Re: You might want to look at the data for other countries.
Oct 26, 2023, 12:56 PM
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Wow. Thanks for sharing.
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110%er [5063]
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Re: You might want to look at the data for other countries.
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Oct 26, 2023, 7:37 PM
[ in reply to Re: You might want to look at the data for other countries. ] |
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Correct...you only use liberal sources for your information, so you think they are correct (but they are not). The CDC always uses all gun shootings in their data, including suicides, legitimate cop shootings, legitimate self defense shootings, accidental shootings, etc. Please find where the CDC just talks about murders...otherwise, you are not being truthful.
What you need to think about...Why does the CDC (center for disease control), track gun deaths? What is the agenda that induces them to do this...Kind of proves that they are looking for gun control.
When the link that I posted first came out, I went to the CDC website that was referenced in it...All of the data was there and easy to decipher. That is why the article posted the links! About a year later, I sent out that same article and got blasted for not having references, told them to click the CDC links, and guess what? The CDC deleted all of the info! How liberal of them to just delete and bury a story that did not match the data they wanted (and taxpayers paid for)! I checked that info several times for over a year, then it was just removed!
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CU Guru [1692]
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Re: You might want to look at the data for other countries.
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Oct 26, 2023, 7:44 PM
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Lol only use "liberal data"
Okay dude. Whatever you say. See facts, scream fake news. The conservative way. I guess if you ignore real data you're never wrong.
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CU Guru [1692]
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Re: You might want to look at the data for other countries.
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Oct 26, 2023, 7:48 PM
[ in reply to Re: You might want to look at the data for other countries. ] |
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And to answer your last point - the CDC "removed" the data you're pointing to because Kleck's survey had massive sampling issues and was determined to be unreliable. Completely ignoring the fact that you're misinterpreting it to suggest 1.5 million lives are saved by defensive gun use (not a claim the survey even attempts to make because of how absolutely batshit insane it is), the CDC no longer stands behind the data because the sampling issues render it useless.
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110%er [5063]
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Re: You might want to look at the data for other countries.
Oct 26, 2023, 11:05 PM
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You do a good job of relaying the liberal talking points...too bad they are wrong...did you answer the question of why the CDC cares about gun control? Why was the gun data published and left on the website for over a year, then removed? Only the publicity it got caused the removal, with the manufactured reason you gave. When Kleck said that no where are suitable data to show how guns saves lives, he was referring to the untold cases that are never reported to authorities...you have taken his comment out of context. If there are 1.5 million cases of guns used for self defense each year, then it is fairly reasonable to assume that a majority of them could have saved a life, if not multiple lives. But, if only 5% of them saved a life, that would be 75,000 lives saved, which means having guns is safer than not having them. I myself have used a gun to diffuse two separate threats on my life, without having to show the firearm (hand in pocket is very effective).
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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Those countries also have mental health issues,
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Oct 25, 2023, 11:44 PM
[ in reply to You might want to look at the data for other countries. ] |
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drugs, violent video games and movies. There must be something different. What could it be? Hmmm.
But seriously. Obviously there are some gun fetishists here who are equipped with all the latest Fox News and NRA talking points. They’re not interested in facing the facts or answering the question I asked above. Zero honest discussion to be had with those people. Good luck debating them. 🙂
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Those countries also have mental health issues,
Oct 25, 2023, 7:00 PM
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I missed your questions...please repost, I will be glad to answer your gun control fetish subjects...
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Legend [19933]
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Re: You might want to look at the data for other countries.
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Oct 26, 2023, 2:39 PM
[ in reply to You might want to look at the data for other countries. ] |
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Bc it’s not a gun problem … we have a very serious and growing mental health issue in this country that just continues to rise by generations. Gun control is the scapegoat for the real issues in this country that no one wants to confront bc you start involving big money with pharma unfortunately and nobody wants to touch it… until that is addressed along with other things this will continue to happen … and lazily it will be blamed on guns and gun control.
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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Yep.***
Oct 27, 2023, 10:46 PM
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110%er [6474]
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110%er [6089]
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Re: Dont we all think guns should not be in the hands of criminals and crazies ?***
Oct 26, 2023, 12:05 PM
[ in reply to Re: Dont we all think guns should not be in the hands of criminals and crazies ?*** ] |
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The difference is, it's not career criminals who are doing the mass shooting. The guy in this instance was a firearms instructor and former military. But I bet if you asked anyone in his life they would probably say he was one of those, "good guys with a gun......"
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Dont we all think guns should not be in the hands of criminals and crazies ?***
Oct 26, 2023, 7:45 PM
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Correct...In Chicago alone, more than this number of people are killed every two days. But you never hear anything about that. And very few people are killed by rifles (less than the number of people who are killed by hammers each year), yet gun control keeps wanting to regulate rifles...why? Because our leaders know that rifles make a much better defensive weapon due to their range...and they must disarm the people before they can run roughshod over them.
Keep in mind, Maine has one of the least restrictive gun laws of the union...their murder rates for guns were making a mockery of the gun control advocates... something had to be done to bring Maine's numbers of killings up! And they needed more distractions for Biden's problems...
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All-TigerNet [13253]
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Lies
Oct 26, 2023, 7:46 PM
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Don't know your position, but if you are saying that I am lying, them please give proof...
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110%er [6139]
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110%er [6474]
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Re: Dont we all think guns should not be in the hands of criminals and crazies ?***
Oct 26, 2023, 6:53 PM
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Since you might be a criminal in the future, we should go ahead and put you in prison.
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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'Mindthink' straight out of Orwell... They're trying.***
Oct 27, 2023, 10:49 PM
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All-Pro [672]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
1
Oct 26, 2023, 9:20 AM
[ in reply to Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine ] |
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Pretty sad that 22 people have died and your first thoughts are about being right and democrats being wrong. Probably need to touch grass.
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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Probably need to delineate the facts.***
Oct 27, 2023, 10:50 PM
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Mascot [24]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 9:27 AM
[ in reply to Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine ] |
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Amazing how you can't even take a moment to think of the victims, you immediately start talking politics.
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Starter [368]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
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5
Oct 26, 2023, 12:39 AM
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This has nothing to do with liberal or conservative. It seems like the shoother is confirmed to be mentally ill. Whats the big deal with having some sort of hurdle for a guy like this to have a gun.
"Robert Card, 40, is a retired military officer who has been arrested in the past for domestic violence, according to a report in Marca. He recently reported mental health issues including hearing voices and was admitted to a mental health facility for 2 weeks, local media reported."
Do you want this guy having a gun? How about if he lives near your relatives? I suggest he should not be allowed to possess a gun. What's the problem with letting law abiding mentally healthy folks have guns and prohibit folks that have have a history of violent crimes AND mental health issues from having guns?
Don't tell me about Chicago or liberals or dems, etc. And dont tell me your prayers go out to everyone in Lewiston Maine. Thats the most useless nonsense. Tell me why this guy should have a gun. The guy was hearing voices. He's nuts and dangerous.
The difficult issue is how do we determine WHO is mentally ill. We shouldnt be focused on whether or not this guy can have a gun. We should be focused on determining who is mentally ill and dnagerous like this guy is.
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Athletic Dir [890]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
3
Oct 26, 2023, 12:47 AM
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If all you said is true how did he legally get a gun? Maybe he got one illegally like most criminals do.
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 4:22 AM
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He will legally have owned. He is gun instructor.
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Asst Coach [702]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 4:47 AM
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Where are you seeing he was a gun instructor?
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
1
Oct 26, 2023, 4:53 AM
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The news.
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
1
Oct 26, 2023, 4:57 AM
[ in reply to Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine ] |
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Or a firearms instructor to not paraphrase. Its all over the news. He has mental issues though and it was known. He has threatened to shoot something up before too.
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CU Guru [1796]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 7:50 AM
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He spent time in a mental institution this summer. By law, he can't legally possess a firearm. Sounds like some bureaucrat screwed up.
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
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Oct 26, 2023, 8:09 AM
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He already owned the guns though. They dont come and confiscate. Might have stopped him from buying a new one, but who knows? Not sure.
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110%er [6139]
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how does a law saying he can't own a gun help?
Oct 26, 2023, 8:36 AM
[ in reply to Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine ] |
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especially since he already had one. He should have been in a pysch ward, but we don't have the balls to mandate those things.
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: how does a law saying he can't own a gun help?
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Oct 26, 2023, 8:48 AM
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You dont have to be in a psych ward and have serious mental issues. They could have confiscated his guns, although that would have been very dangerous. I wouldn't want that job.
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
5
5
Oct 26, 2023, 12:50 AM
[ in reply to Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine ] |
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Most of what you say is correct...but you are not arguing the correct points. To take away someone's right to own a gun is breaking the second amendment. We already have laws to stop mentally ill people like this from having guns, but the system is not being enforced! What you and others are arguing is a blanket law that can't be enforced, just like the ones we have now. But, they will make it easier to take away guns from good people! I have sarcoidosis. I was prescribed a mild drug to see if it would help in motor function (nothing to do with mental acuity). The current proposed law means I would not be able to possess a gun due to that one month trial of a drug on your list (it did not help, and I quit after one month, and it was about 10 years ago!). I wrote this years ago:
The Second Amendment
The right to bear arms was written to make sure that the government did not step on our liberties....It has nothing to do with hunting, sport, or wild-west stories! The people arguing against it are arguing on incorrect points because they can't support their arguments without going with incorrect points. The Bill of Rights were written to prevent the government from taking liberties away from the citizens. It did not give any rights, just acknowledged what was already there. Given that the amendment was written for us to resist the tyranny of a bad government, and given that the bad government has assault rifles, then the obvious implication is that we must also have assault rifles.
It is a proven fact that areas with required gun ownership have the lowest crime rates (see Kennesaw, Ga and Switzerland). It is also a proven fact that areas in the USA that have the most restrictive gun laws are also the areas with the highest per capita gun crimes (see Chicago, DC, LA, NY, etc.). If you take all of the big government areas that have outlawed or greatly restricted gun ownership out of the American gun statistics, we would have one of the lowest rates of gun crime in the world. Thus, logic would negate all of the lefts' arguments against guns for safety reasons.... In other words: it is proven safer to require all persons to have guns, so you cannot argue against guns for safety reasons!!! Why else has almost all terrorist attacks in the USA occurred in areas that outlaw guns? Even the terrorists stay away from areas where they think the average Joe may be carrying a gun!
It really is easy...those that want gun control, think that the government is good and can do a better job with our security than we can do ourselves. They also are willing to give any liberties they have to that government and will follow that government over the cliff like all good lemmings should. Those that understand what the meaning of the 2nd Amendment is, know that the government will eventually, if not already, get out of control, and the only control we can exercise is through our possession of guns...as foretold by our founding fathers. We know that we can't wait 15 minutes for the police to show up when we are attacked, and that the possession of firearms is the first thing a government attacks to try and get more control over the people (see the history of all communist/socialist countries and rulers like Stalin and Hitler).
All of the lemmings trying to get gun control now are really just programmed by the media to enact controls wanted by the democrats/communists/socialists/ big government advocates (including many republicans) to allow the government to take more liberties away from us. DESPICABLE!
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
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Oct 26, 2023, 5:13 AM
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There are so many untruths in there its not really worth unpacking. I dont give a shyatt about gun control. I am not worried about being shot, but there are some misinformed comments in there.
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 9:36 AM
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Please tell me anything in there that is not true. It is so easy to dismiss without explanation. Show some balls and give details.
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CU Guru [1692]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
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Oct 26, 2023, 12:25 PM
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Things that aren't true?
Well for one Switzerland doesn't have compulsory gun ownership (Kennesaw doesn't either really, the law has never been enforced and was entirely a political statement), they have compulsory military service. They are not the same. And its low crime rate is much more closely related to lower levels of socioeconomic inequality. Gun acquisition requires a government issued permit in Switzerland.
For two, gun homicide per capita is highest in red states, specifically southern red states (https://www.axios.com/2023/10/16/america-gun-deaths-crime-south). If you remove the likes of LA, Chicago, NY, etc... our per capita gun homicide rates would skyrocket even further.
Logic would only negate gun control arguments on a safety basis if you completely make up your facts, something you seem happy to do all over the place here. Logic certainly wouldn't come to the conclusion that "it is proven safer to require all persons to have guns, so you cannot argue against guns for safety reasons!!!"
And finally to this - "Why else has almost all terrorist attacks in the USA occurred in areas that outlaw guns?" - it's just...not true. El Paso hasn't outlawed guns. Orlando hasn't outlawed guns. Pittsburgh hasn't outlawed guns. Charleston hasn't outlawed guns. But let me guess, domestic terrorism doesn't count for some reason?
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 8:02 PM
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Wow! Can't believe your made up stories...Last first:
No, the cities have not banned guns, but the establishments the shootings took place in had! So much for your false argument.
Switzerland does require their "militia" to have guns, and their militia is able bodied males. If you wish to purchase another gun, then you have to have the permit.
Your link for your source on red state gun deaths would not work, so I have to assume it is like all other liberal sites, and gun deaths include legitimate police shootings, legitimate self defense shootings, suicides, accidents, etc. Red states, due to the high gun possession rates (including killings for self defense) and high hunting accidents, will always show up higher. Please find a link that works, or find a link that only talks about murders.
Yes, there are about 1.5 million times each year in our country that guns are used for self defense, saving lives. That means that the more people with guns, the lower the murder rates.
Read the examples of times a gun saved lives in this article...keeping in mind, that was just one month!
https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/08/07/guns-saved-these-americans-from-assault-and-robbery-in-july/?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTmpWaFkyVmpOMkppWmpVNSIsInQiOiJlMHJwbnBsZDBBXC81K3dSQUhZZytoVzdBbFpuVnd3NVlEXC8zSTRKWkRwSU5lRm0ycVhNTzhBV0tqcE1WMDRYeXl6M0JMWFwvejI5N0NQWHJuZm5IN25VQ2tBXC9KQkxJQXp4bzFuRUVCWHF6aUdWWkNIZUlHdnNldGx3dUVONHNrTm0ifQ%3D%3D&fbclid=IwAR2HJOty6tIX2pZpqslvn7YCyXxXah-cR-Gdwf3bx2G8qW9bxCF7qthb4dE
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CU Guru [1692]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 9:19 PM
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1. El Paso was at a Walmart. They banned open carry *after* the shooting. I'm sure you can source the Church in Charleston and Synagogue in Pittsburgh being gun free zones at the time since you're so sure.
2. You know nothing about Switzerland. They aren't "able bodied men make up a militia". They are conscripted into the Swiss Army. True military service is compulsory. They are issued firearms when conscripted and can elect to store their firearm at home in accordance with swiss army guidelines or at barracks depending on their status. They cannot use that service weapon for personal use and since 2007 they are no longer issued ammo for that weapon. Upon completion of service (early/mid 30s for non-officer conscripts) you are permitted to buy your service weapon but are not obligated to. At that point the purchase is subjected to private firearm sales. I'd love for the US to have gun laws as restrictive as Switzerland's.
3. Literally delete the parentheses at the end. It's not rocket science. I've provided a source, you've done nothing but ignore it but provided no source of your own. You just keep repeating nonsense talking points. Murders are not the only gun deaths. Acting like they are is ignorant and lacks any sign of empathy.
4. No, there aren't. That's an entirely made up number that is not supported by any evidence. You somehow took a bad estimate of 50,000-3,000,000 defensive gun uses per year and turned it into 1,500,000 lives saved. There's no logical basis for that leap and as I pointed out elsewhere the author of that bad estimate doesn't believe anything close to that is supported by his survey.
You should really attempt to critically approach the situation and not just regurgitate whatever the NRA or Fox News tells you to believe.
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 11:59 PM
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Well, if you are not going to listen to anything I say, then why comment? As I said, you are taking the authors comment out of context because he was referring to the great number of gun self defense actions that are not reported...but you ignored that.
The study did have supported documentation and the extrapolation was within normal parameters. Sorry you and your kind don't like that. But those are facts.
The source you provided was entirely biased and not reliable.
Almost all mass shootings are in no gun zones...any school, the Orlando night club, Uvalde church, Charleston church, Buffalo store, Parkland school, Fort Hood twice..etc. About the only ones that aren't are the ones in residences. Churches are especially gun free by law. In order to have concealed weapons in a church, you have to have written approval by the pastor or deacons.
I don't regurgitate anything. I am not an NRA member, and I don't watch Fox news (who are now liberal, not conservative). You are the one regurgitating whatever the lemming news tell you. You are the one who believes whatever the CDC tells you. You are not even questioning why the CDC keeps tabs on gun control issues.
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Commissioner [934]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
1
Oct 26, 2023, 8:51 AM
[ in reply to Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine ] |
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16000 Americans dead versus 4000 Europeans. I think that fact Trumps everything else. See my post below.
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Orange Blooded [2574]
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Not to mention per capita makes it even more staggering***
Oct 26, 2023, 9:02 AM
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 9:38 AM
[ in reply to Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine ] |
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NOPE! Official studies by the CDC show that in America, guns are used to save lives at about 1.5 million times each year...makes your numbers childish.
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CU Guru [1692]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 11:25 AM
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Surely these "official studies" have a source other than your ###?
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110%er [5063]
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CU Guru [1692]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 12:01 PM
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That article is:
1. Not a source
2. Makes wild leaps in logic that are not soundly supported (not nearly as wild as your leap to claim 1.5 million lives, but still wild)
3. Has links that are dead in place of where you'd expect actual sourcing
I didn't ask for an ultra-conservative rag's misinterpretation of data that may or may not actually exist. I asked for the CDC studies saying about 1.5 million lives were saved each year.
You don't really need to give me the source though. I know you're regurgitating conservative/NRA talking points about Kleck's surveys (though I have doubts you know you're talking about Kleck's surveys). Even if we accept that Kleck's survey is not a huge overestimate (all logical analysis of it's sampling issues suggests it is), Kleck himself has said, about his study: "I am not aware of any scientifically based estimates of lives saved".
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 8:22 PM
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So, none of the many examples of guns saving lives are true? How many lives were saved just by those examples in one month in that article? How many times were guns used for self defense and not reported (many).
When I first used that link, the links worked, and I went to the CDC site and confirmed the numbers he was citing BEFORE I ever used his article. I checked those sources several times for the following year. Then the CDC just erased the data! The links in the article worked for over a year, but I am sure that article is why the CDC removed the data.
This guy says that Obama verified that 0.5 to 3 million numbers in 2012:
https://fee.org/articles/guns-prevent-thousands-of-crimes-every-day-research-show/
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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Give it up. Let him walk his talk and wish him good luck. His axx.***
Oct 27, 2023, 11:01 PM
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All-Pro [672]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 9:14 AM
[ in reply to Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine ] |
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Woof.
First of all, if we are talking about making America great again. It should be noted during those great post WWII years, the NRA promoted gun control and gun control was a bipartisan agreement. It was the late 70s that marked the change in position for the NRA from a marksmanship club to a political lobby aligned with republicans promoting deregulation of gun control. Let’s make America great again by getting rid of lobbies like the NRA and returning to sensible gun regulation.
Let’s also point out that the second amendment starts with the phrase “well regulated Militia”. So miss me with the idea that any form of regulation is an infringement on the 2nd amendment. What’s up for debate here is what is the definition of well regulated, and I respect your version but I disagree. I think “well regulated” can and should look very different than our current system.
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
1
Oct 26, 2023, 9:52 AM
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Well regulated militia just means that you have the proper firearms and have been trained to use them. All concealed weapons courses include training. All registries to carry a gun have regulations to maintain that permit.
It changed for the NRA when the politics started saying no guns, rather than training for guns. It has nothing to do with political lobbies. But I agree, we should not allow groups like Planned Parenthood, climate change advocates, unions, etc, to give money under the table to our congressman to get what they want.
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All-Pro [672]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 7:01 PM
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That’s not true, the first gun control laws in US were supported by NRA. It was only a small fraction of NRA that didn’t like those policies and held a coup.
Check out the Dickey Amendment, the 1968 Gun Control Act, National Firearms Act or Mulford Act. All gun control policies sponsored by NRA. It was the coup in the 70s that changed the direction and intention of the organization and they started trying to undo the work of the founders of the NRA.
And frankly I do not think there is any required training or vetting for civilians regarding assault rifles. That doesn’t seem well regulated militia to me. Seems more like slapdash vigilantism at best and fatal oversight at worst.
I don’t want people to not have access to firearms, what I’d like is a reasonable bipartisan process to regulate access to firepower.
If we are being honest, should the feds ever decide to attack the population. I don’t think a contingency of unorganized doom peepers is going to hold of a Humvee with a mounted machine gun or a bomber passing overhead.
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 8:28 PM
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So, you say that 2 million government forces would have no problem attacking American citizens to take away their guns? So, lets say that half of them may decide to follow orders...that leaves one million against 130 million (one third the population owns guns)? This is what the 2nd amendment was written for, and why we should have automatic rifles, not semi-automatic!
You keep saying assault rifles...what are they?
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All-Pro [672]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 9:29 PM
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That’s exactly what I am saying. Civilians would be bringing guns to a bomb fight. Also they would shut off access to water and power in areas of resistance. The population wouldn’t last 6 months if the government put their backs into it.
I created that scenario to explain to you the implications of your argument that assault rifle deregulation is critical to upholding the 2nd amendment is a red herring when the government is equipped with trillions of dollars in firepower. In a wild turn of events you suggested that half of the executive branch of the government would be too noble to fire on innocent civilians on order. Well if that’s the case, then I’m thinking we probably don’t need the assault rifles anyway. Doesn’t matter how you cut it, this all about lobbyist (guns manufacturers) paying republicans to brainwash you into thinking regulating their business is unconstitutional when nothing could be further from the truth.
And lastly, are you trying to quibble semantics on whether or not the guns used in attacks like Austin or Lewiston were technically “assault weapons” not “assault rifles” because civilian models don’t have multiple fire modes beyond semi? Bush league straw man argument.
You should try reading more New Testament and less Fox News.
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All-Pro [686]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
1
Oct 26, 2023, 6:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine ] |
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The Second Amendment
The right to bear arms was written to make sure that the government did not step on our liberties....It has nothing to do with hunting, sport, or wild-west stories! The people arguing against it are arguing on incorrect points because they can't support their arguments without going with incorrect points. The Bill of Rights were written to prevent the government from taking liberties away from the citizens. It did not give any rights, just acknowledged what was already there. Given that the amendment was written for us to resist the tyranny of a bad government, and given that the bad government has assault rifles, then the obvious implication is that we must also have assault rifles.
It is a proven fact that areas with required gun ownership have the lowest crime rates (see Kennesaw, Ga and Switzerland). It is also a proven fact that areas in the USA that have the most restrictive gun laws are also the areas with the highest per capita gun crimes (see Chicago, DC, LA, NY, etc.). If you take all of the big government areas that have outlawed reasons.... In other words: it is proven safer to require all persons to have guns, so you cannot argue against guns for safety reasons!!! Why else has almost all terrorist attacks in the USA occurred in areas that outlaw guns? Even the terrorists stay away from areas where they think the average Joe may be carrying a gun!
It really is easy...those that want gun control, think that the government is good and can do a better job with our security than we can do ourselves. They also are willing to give any liberties they have to that government and will follow that government over the cliff like all good lemmings should. Those that understand what the meaning of the 2nd Amendment is, know that the government will eventually, if not already, get out of control, and the only control we can exercise is through our possession of guns...as foretold by our founding fathers.
Second Amendment was also written at a time when no one could even imagine automatic weapons, etc. Using your logic "the citizens or militia" need to arm up with grenades, machine guns, tanks, planes, ships, and other military hardware to even be in the same weaponry ballpark as the army, navy, and air force. I don't think citizens should prepare for war vs. "the government". It's a losing battle.
IMHO
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 8:36 PM
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Nice copy of my post on the first three paragraphs. As to the implication of arming our citizens...I am all for it! Our founding fathers were brilliant. Since muskets were the modern firearm at the time, if that was what they intended, they would have said muskets...they were smart enough to know there would be advances, so they simply said firearms to cover weapons of the future.
Again, what would happen if our government told our soldiers to fire on innocent citizens? We really don't know. But, more than a third of our population are gun owners, which means well over 100 million scattered everywhere, a strategic nightmare for a million troops.
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Orange Blooded [2574]
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An interesting (to me) personal perspective
1
Oct 26, 2023, 9:00 AM
[ in reply to Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine ] |
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I have seen psychiatrists and on mental health medications now for 17 years. Even a stint in adult partial outpatient at a hospital for my mental health.
Despite this, with a concealed carry permit I was able to go into Academy and walk out with a gun in less than an hour. It was way too easy for someone like me with significant red flags to get a gun for a very affordable price.
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Orange Blooded [2951]
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487 Mass Shootings so far in 2023
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Oct 26, 2023, 2:34 AM
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487 mass shootings so far in 2023: Mass shooting = 4 or more people shot at the same time excluding the perpetrator.
571 killed, 1947 injured
30 states + DC + Puerto Rico: 11 in South Carolina
This is neither a Democrat nor Republican problem. This is an AMERICAN problem and both sides need to be able to search for a common solution.
It is only a matter of time before it impacts everyone either directly or indirectly.
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Head Coach [788]
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Re: 487 Mass Shootings so far in 2023
Oct 26, 2023, 6:52 AM
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Yes we have been impacted. Our neighbor was shot and killed in a mass shooting, shot while sitting in a chair minding her own business. Shooter was clinically confirmed to be mentally ill and on medication for mental illness. Horrible.
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: 487 Mass Shootings so far in 2023
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Oct 26, 2023, 7:01 AM
[ in reply to 487 Mass Shootings so far in 2023 ] |
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There is no solution at this stage. Impossible. There are some common sense things to help slightly though.
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Commissioner [934]
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Homicides in US
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Oct 26, 2023, 7:39 AM
[ in reply to 487 Mass Shootings so far in 2023 ] |
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The US has approximately the same population as France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and the UK combined. 16,000 Americans killed by guns per year versus 4,000 in those European countries. Both statistics exclude suicides. So, look that up in your Funk and Wagnalls and tell me our problem is not guns. Oh, I’m a very conservative American ( maybe not on this issue as defined by the NRA), and I have lived in some of those countries over 7 years. Few visible guns, no fear of randomly getting shot.
Message was edited by: DownunderTiger®
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Homicides in US
Oct 26, 2023, 10:01 AM
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Every gun statistic I have ever seen, includes suicides, legitimate police shootings, accidents, and similar stats in their total gun deaths numbers. They never quote just murder rates with guns. When you do that, you negate most arguments given for gun control.
Again, the CDC estimates there are over 1.5 million lives saved by guns every year in America...You can't argue the low numbers you have and make any sense to people who know this. If you take away guns with more regulations, then the murder rates will only go up. It is known that most shootings happen in areas that have no guns allowed...which then gives the thought that if those guns had not been banned, would the shooting have occurred there? And if there were no places that ban guns, then where would the terrorist go to shoot people?
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Commissioner [934]
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Re: Homicides in US
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Oct 26, 2023, 10:10 AM
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The numbers I quoted exclude suicides and are apples to apples. I doubt I will convince you, even though I have actually lived in some of these countries, and Australia ( thus my handle). 12,000 unnecessary American deaths is real and trumps all the other statistics. NO ONE, including the most left of our left wingers, want to take guns away. I have 3 guns and I know how to use them. The hope, and dream is that we learn from what others have already done in most of the rest of the world and save American lives.
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Homicides in US
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Oct 26, 2023, 10:16 AM
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How can you compare 12,000 deaths to 1.5 million people saved by guns each year in our country? If we ban guns, then the murders will go up. Judges release the perpetrators when the commit crimes, so by the time they have had 5 or more arrests, they have learned there are no consequences for bad actions...so what good would more laws do when the judges will not incarcerate anyone?
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Commissioner [934]
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Re: Homicides in US
Oct 26, 2023, 10:23 AM
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I would love to see the study that shows 1.5M saved. I've never studied this angle, but I do know that WAY more Americans die by guns than just about any place else in the world.
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110%er [5063]
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Commissioner [934]
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Re: Homicides in US
Oct 26, 2023, 10:59 AM
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My last post on this, since I know you're not listening.
So, I read every word of the article you referenced. No where does it say "lives saved." Also, The Daily Signal is an ultra conservative media outlet, so do you really think they're going to present the balanced view.
One fact that is undeniable is that 12.000 American's lives could be saved each year with better gun controls.
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Homicides in US
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Oct 26, 2023, 11:32 AM
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Excerpt: "As the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention noted in a 2013 report, almost all national studies of defensive gun uses have found that firearms are used in self-defense between 500,000 and 3 million times every year in the United States.
Even the center’s own internal data indicates that firearms are used defensively about 1 million times a year. "
What does the term "used in self defense" mean to you? If they are used 3 million times, is it not safe to assume that at least half of those could have saved the person defending themselves from being killed (1.5 million)? Even if it is only 1% of the uses, it still eclipses your 12,000 killed! 1 percent of 3 million is 30,000!
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110%er [6089]
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Re: Homicides in US
Oct 26, 2023, 12:16 PM
[ in reply to Re: Homicides in US ] |
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The funny thing is, you gun nuts keep saying g people are trying to ban and take away your guns lol. First off, no they aren't, it's just regulation. Like another poster said. He had documented mental health issues, and was able to get a gun in one hour.
Second, no one would sign up for that job to go door to door Taking guns. It's dangerous and the resources it would take to pull off would be astronomical. But yeah just keep on regurgitating what the nra and conservatives tell you to say.
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110%er [5063]
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All-Pro [672]
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Re: Homicides in US
Oct 26, 2023, 9:51 PM
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Bush said he would lower taxes too. They are all showmen and liars.
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All-TigerNet [10640]
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Re: Homicides in US
Oct 26, 2023, 10:03 AM
[ in reply to Homicides in US ] |
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Talk and statistics are easy. What is your solution? One that actually would work and is doable.
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Homicides in US
Oct 26, 2023, 10:13 AM
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Easy...put God back in our lives...He has been removed from schools, so our kids don't know Him. Our kids are taught in school that we are just another animal, no more or less than any other animal, so our children do not value human life. Morals have no meaning to our children.
Guns are not the problem...people have to pull the trigger. More people are killed by hammers than rifles in our country... no cries to ban hammers! We must find a way to place value on a human life to stop people from taking human lives.
And, horror among horrors... take away all gun ban areas. Almost all mass shootings take place in areas which have banned guns, which is why the shooter selected that venue. Since millions are saved each year in our country by people carrying guns, allow them to carry everywhere, and the number of mass shootings will decrease.
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Orange Blooded [2156]
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Re: Homicides in US
Oct 26, 2023, 6:04 PM
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So teach 6 day creation in schools and that will stop them?
Lol. Ok.
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Commissioner [934]
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Re: Homicides in US
Oct 26, 2023, 10:20 AM
[ in reply to Re: Homicides in US ] |
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Yes, talk is cheap. The solutions are obvious: very strict background checks, annual checks of criminal and mental records that actually take guns away from dangerous people, banning assault rifles. This does not completely close the gap with what others do, but it would be a start. Look, I know the politics in the US make law changes like this extremely difficult. Sadly, this resistance is driven by an extremely strong NRA lobby, not by what people know deep inside.
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Homicides in US
Oct 26, 2023, 10:31 AM
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I have never been an NRA member. It is common sense when you look at areas where these shootings take place, and see the "no guns allowed" stickers in the windows, that if they had of allowed guns, then the shooting may not have happened. It would be better to remove all gun control areas than to place more controls on guns so that only criminals have them.
I agree with background checks and mental health checks annually. I do not agree with the "assault rifle" angle...many guns are arbitrarily classified as "assault" when they are not. Who makes the decision? And the purpose for the 2nd Amendment is to allow citizens to resist an out of control government, who has real automatic guns...how can we do that if we are not allowed similar weapons?
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110%er [6964]
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Re: Homicides in US
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Oct 26, 2023, 10:53 AM
[ in reply to Homicides in US ] |
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Blah blah blah. Myself and everyone in this comment section knows the 2nd amendment is going NOWHERE. Libs would love nothing more than to disarm every good, honest American so their gestapo tactics can be more easily enforced
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110%er [9032]
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Re: 487 Mass Shootings so far in 2023
5
5
Oct 26, 2023, 8:54 AM
[ in reply to 487 Mass Shootings so far in 2023 ] |
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probably should hang some general rules to live by on the walls of our public schools
ten is a good number
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All-In [44054]
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Cue the "muh guns" crowd.
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Oct 26, 2023, 10:08 AM
[ in reply to 487 Mass Shootings so far in 2023 ] |
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They will offer Ts and Ps while fiercely defending their right to own any kind of gun they want, no matter how many innocent people die from gun violence.
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Cue the "muh guns" crowd.
Oct 26, 2023, 10:19 AM
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More people die each year from hammers than rifles...are you going to ban hammers too? Or are you going to try to find out why people want to murder? What about cars? More people die from hit and runs of cars than by rifles each year, ban cars!
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Commissioner [934]
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Re: Cue the "muh guns" crowd.
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Oct 26, 2023, 10:30 AM
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I would love to see the hammer statistics. Never heard that one before.
Using your car analogy, I would love to have half the controls on guns we have on driving: written and driving tests, comprehensive road safety measures ( i.e.speed limits), suspended license for offenses, sophisticated mandatory safety features on vehicles, license renewals every X years ( depends on state), etc
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Cue the "muh guns" crowd.
Oct 26, 2023, 10:38 AM
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Everything you just stated, we already have! And we still have more deaths from cars than just about anything else! Kind of proves the point of gun control not working, right?
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110%er [5063]
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All-In [44054]
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Way to completely miss the point.***
Oct 26, 2023, 11:52 AM
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What point did I miss? That guns kill people? No, they don't! People kill people with guns! And they kill people with hammers more than they do with rifles, but you don't want to ban hammers...so maybe you missed the point? why tell us to ban rifles, when they are such a small number of the murders? Why ban/restrict guns when they are used to save about 1.5 million people a year in this country? Why does your 12,000 killed weigh more than 1.5 million saved with guns?
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Legend [19933]
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110%er [9656]
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Re: Cue the "muh guns" crowd.
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Oct 26, 2023, 2:09 PM
[ in reply to Cue the "muh guns" crowd. ] |
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Muh cars! I defend the right to own 3 of them no matter how many people die in car wrecks. The amount of people that die from a certain thing doesn’t make it right or wrong. Hell, until the last 50 years many women died of childbirth but you’re still here. Smoking? Drinking? Eating fatty ### BBQ and fried Chicken has killed more southerners than guns but every tailgate I see y’all slurping that disgusting #### up.
Guns are our only and last hope against tyranny and if you think this was bad, try and take them
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Orange Blooded [3663]
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Prayers for everyone and their families***
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Oct 26, 2023, 9:01 AM
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: Prayers for everyone and their families***
Oct 26, 2023, 9:04 AM
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That will help.
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110%er [6219]
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Re: Prayers for everyone and their families***
Oct 26, 2023, 11:28 PM
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LOLOL
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All-In [38124]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
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Oct 26, 2023, 9:23 AM
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Bring back hard labor in the jails. Make them break rocks with a sledge hammer for the rest of their lives. I guarantee the crime rate would go down.
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Freshman [-57]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 10:32 AM
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He was released from a mental institution this summer after telling people what he was going to do
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Scout Team [165]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
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Oct 26, 2023, 11:34 AM
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I never worry about this type of thing when I travel to other countries. Look at the gun he had when he blew all those people away. Doubt he's using that to hunt deer. Those types of guns are meant to mow down as many people as possible. Very sad we can't as a country just figure out what we need to do rather than just argue endlessly about Republicans this and Liberals that...
Cue the "Thoughts and Prayers" comments from everyone...then I'll go get my lunch and we'll forget about this incident in another week when it happens some place else.
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 11:41 AM
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Again, it is not about hunting...that is a non-starter argument. The purpose of the 2nd amendment was to protect us from the government going crazy, like all the other parts of the bill of rights. The bill of rights did not give us any rights, it just made sure we kept our rights we already had to protect us from the government. If the government has automatic weapons, and all we have are semi-automatic, we are already at a disadvantage.
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Orange Blooded [2951]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 2:48 PM
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Can you please provide an example of when the government has "gone crazy" and started to take out ordinary citizens for no reason with weapons more powerful than ordinary citizens own? And at the same time, please be specific about which "government" you are referring to - federal, state, county, city and which departments have this responsibility?
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 8:44 PM
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Tiananmen Square comes to mind...then there is last two years in Venezuela, and all countries that have lost to communism did it. It is part of the marxist game plan that the democrats are following...
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Legend [16330]
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inb4 "well thats not here"
Oct 26, 2023, 8:46 PM
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well yeah because the citizens here are armed...also israel is another example
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Orange Blooded [2951]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 10:28 PM
[ in reply to Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine ] |
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Since you referenced the Bill of Rights and the Amendments, I thought it clear we were talking about the US, not other countries. Now, please answer the questions.
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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Waco came to mind immediately... 'Let's burn those women and children.'
Oct 27, 2023, 11:24 PM
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We can't have them "abused"..
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Orange Blooded [2348]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
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Oct 26, 2023, 2:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine ] |
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The Second Amendment gives the right to keep and bear arms. It doesn't give the right to keep and bear weapons of mass destruction. Also, newsflash, if the US government went to war on its citizens and they stood brave in their homes with their ARs and SKs on window sills ready to fight, the government could just roll down your street with a tank and blow those people and their entire house up no problem. Fight over pretty quick. There is no fighting the US government and the trillions it has poured into the DOD, and that fantasy should just go ahead and die.
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Legend [16330]
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you cant own weapons of mass destruction
Oct 26, 2023, 8:50 PM
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its illegal to own machine guns, nuclear bombs and so on.. an ar 15 is a one trigger pull one fire weapon. which makes it semi automatic..also if the government decided to go full on commie. you are correct htey have tanks and fighter jets..but with an ar i can shoot out tires and windows or even form an army up to take over a base..then in term have a tank...how ever did we beat the british who had a navy while we only had men armed with muskets
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110%er [5063]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 8:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine ] |
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1 million versus 130 million that are scattered throughout the country...like our odds and guerilla warfare. Think of the original movie "Red Dawn".
None of the bill of rights gives any rights. Here is the preamble:
The Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.
It clearly states these rights are being enumerated to protect us from government (abuse of the government's powers). And they are written to restrict government, not to give any rights to the people... And the last sentence pretty much say that by restricting the government in this way, we "ensure" the government is kept in check...which is why the liberals continually attack most of the bill of rights to allow the government to do more than it was designed to do...
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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Are you seriously suggesting that some National Guardsmen is going to
Oct 27, 2023, 11:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine ] |
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arm up with some semi-annual strangers and go blow up his brother or cousin or friend's family...?
I have better faith in Humanity than that.
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All-Pro [686]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 6:35 PM
[ in reply to Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine ] |
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I never worry about this type of thing when I travel to other countries. Look at the gun he had when he blew all those people away. Doubt he's using that to hunt deer. Those types of guns are meant to mow down as many people as possible. Very sad we can't as a country just figure out what we need to do rather than just argue endlessly about Republicans this and Liberals that...
Cue the "Thoughts and Prayers" comments from everyone...then I'll go get my lunch and we'll forget about this incident in another week when it happens some place else.
You ain't gonna raise your pulse with sensible comments like that.
But I give you a TU. 👍
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Orange Blooded [2523]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 12:37 PM
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Thoughts and prayers....rinse and repeat
The usual crowd will declare that the democrats are coming for their guns as they have been for the past 20 years after every mass shooting. We're out of ideas, and we've tried nothing.
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Scout Team [166]
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Who cares? America doesn't. This is who we are and it's just another day
Oct 26, 2023, 2:54 PM
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in the USA.
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All-Pro [686]
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Re: Who cares? America doesn't. This is who we are and it's just another day
Oct 26, 2023, 6:38 PM
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Until it happens to you or yours.
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Heisman Winner [111651]
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I would have snuck up behind him
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Oct 26, 2023, 7:22 PM
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Stuffed a lit Stick of Dynamite into his trousers, then ran away. But liberals made this illegal and a bunch of people died. It is their fault.
How did I do?
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110%er [6219]
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Re: Mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine
Oct 26, 2023, 11:27 PM
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Aaaaaaand, as usual, the “good guy with a gun” is as playing with his pud at home LOL
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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And I thought my camera was covered... ;~)***
Oct 27, 2023, 11:33 PM
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