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Replies: 30
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CU Guru [1868]
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You're part of the problem
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Nov 1, 2023, 11:03 AM
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That's the point where I felt the worst about Dabo's response to Tyler, when he says "people like you," and "you're part of the problem."
I love Dabo. I think he's gonna make changes, and we'll be much better next year and the year after. He's the best person to be the head football coach at Clemson. I love him.
But Tyler isn't part of the problem. He's not even part of the program. He's just a fan. When Dabo calls him part of the problem, I feel pretty bad for him (Dabo), because he sounds lost. Sounding off on fans and/or the fanbase is kinda . . . Brownelle-ish.
Dabo, I know you secretly follow all of my TVD posts. Listen, you're better than that. Don't worry about the Tylers. Just tell him, "Sorry you feel that way, and we're gonna get better," and then just carry on. Let Tyler's words be like water off a duck's back. You've won two national championships. You're a great coach. Don't get pulled down into the muck.
Also, start featuring Mafah over Shipley.
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All-In [40100]
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I actually dont disagree with anything you said.
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Nov 1, 2023, 11:13 AM
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Tyler was being a turd and trying to get a rise. There is no other way to look at it. But there are real issues that need to be addressed and aren’t just from this year. It took a couple of years to get here. And I’d argue Trevor and possibly even as far back as deshaun were good enough to make up for it. But there are legitimate things that need addressing. Too much focus on turd fans being the problems may stop you from addressing the real issues. Tyler is a turd and I have little problem with the way Dabo handled it. But I do hope Dabo focuses on the rest and gets it done. I think he can.
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CU Guru [1868]
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Mafah too right?***
Nov 1, 2023, 11:26 AM
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Lot o points [155972]
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I like how you make a pretty sound argument and then
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Nov 1, 2023, 11:28 AM
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Finish it with an undeniable universal truth.
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All-In [30841]
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We can all be part of the solution
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Nov 1, 2023, 11:29 AM
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Donate more to NIL
Donate more to IPTAY
Show up to games AND...AND...AND BE LOUD
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110%er [6453]
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Re: We can all be part of the solution
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Nov 1, 2023, 11:53 AM
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We are part of the problem as fans because we don’t spend enough money? Because we don’t spend enough as it is, and we don’t “appreciate” Dabo enough. The man making millions of dollars telling us to “show up and appreciate” him better. He makes more in 1 year than most of us will make in 3 lifetimes. But we as fans are talked down to and told to show up, spend thousands on season tickets, parking passes, give to IPTAY, give to the NIL to pay off players, spend hundreds on hotel rooms for one night, and go support the local Clemson businesses.
And shut up and don’t dare be critical of him or you’re called an idiot, a 1.5%er, or part of the problem.
Fans are not the problem. Dabo has created his own problems and has no one to blame but himself, but he loves to play victim and project.
And I am an IPTAY member and a Clemson graduate, as well as my wife, and my daughter.
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Orange Blooded [4069]
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Re: We can all be part of the solution
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Nov 1, 2023, 12:39 PM
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Nailed it LC. Long time IPTAY member & your situation sounds alot like mine.
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Legend [16158]
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Freshman [-92]
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All-TigerNet [11098]
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Re: You're part of the problem
Nov 1, 2023, 11:31 AM
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Nice post
GO TIGERS!!!
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CU Medallion [51550]
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But he did get down in the muck. Rolled in it the next day, too.***
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Nov 1, 2023, 12:29 PM
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: You're part of the problem
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Nov 1, 2023, 12:33 PM
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My take on Dabo feeling that certain types of fans are part of the problem.
Dabo's job at the simplest level is to win games. At times fans embrace that. On the other hand, fans have been claiming 2021 and 2022 were not successful seasons because they could see the cracks forming in the foundation. Both of those seasons Clemson finished with 10+ wins. 10+ wins equals success at face value.
Flip to this season. Fans don't want to hear how well the Tigers have played at times because all that matters is the 4-4 record. If that's your approach, then you can't say '21 and '22 weren't good seasons.
It's the hypocrisy that I feel is driving Dabo crazy. Either the record is all that matters or everything must be assessed when evaluating the program.
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Legend [16158]
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Our offense has looked like crap for three straight years...and if we're being
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Nov 1, 2023, 12:55 PM
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honest, it started Trevor and Travis' last year, they just absolutely carried us to the playoffs
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Orange Blooded [2753]
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I think it's the reverse of that . . .
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Nov 1, 2023, 1:24 PM
[ in reply to Re: You're part of the problem ] |
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I think that analysis is backwards. The critics aren't saying "all that matters is the record," but rather that the record is a sort of "bottom line" aspect - that it is the fullest fruition and manifestation of problems, but not the end-all-be-all, and certainly not the **only** manifestation of them.
I think the hypocrisy is actually on the other side. If you see something bad or concerning during a good season - say, a 10-3 or an 11-3 season w/ an ACC title, people say you are "miserable even when we win." In other words, you're not allowed point out these things w/o being saddled with the label of "discontent with wins." But then, if you say something when the proverbial crap hits the fan and we're 4-4, and point out along the way that this stuff was manifest to a degree a couple years prior when things were better, they accuse you either of "suddenly" getting upset at the first sign of less wins, OR of shifting the goalposts with regard to whether win-loss record is the end-all-be-all.
But neither of those things are the case. People who who noticed the cracks when the wins were more plentiful didn't just get upset out of nowhere this year, and those when they did notice that stuff one, two, three years ago, they were not discontent with winning, they were envisioning the possibility of this kind of thing happening right now.
No, we should be like Tyler. Dabo deserves more respect than that, not only as the best leader of Clemson's program ever, but as a person. But most people aren't reducing this to the '23 Win-Loss record alone. They are, in fact, the ones saying it was cultivated a few years back, so by definition they aren't simply reactive to the moment.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: I think it's the reverse of that . . .
Nov 1, 2023, 1:34 PM
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4-4 is not ok.
Yes there were signs that things were getting worse instead of better on offense.
Also Dabo fired the OC so he obviously didn't turn a blind eye to what was happening.
With all of that said, the people who are referencing '21 and '22 being unsuccessful seasons are a problem.
11-3 and ACC Champions is a great season, even if the offense was boring and Clemson lost for the first time in forever to scar.
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Orange Blooded [2753]
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Yes and no . . .
Nov 1, 2023, 1:51 PM
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There are, of course, some hyper-active and quick-tongued people who will over-react in their frustration and will claim 10 or 11 wins and an ACC championship were still "bad" seasons. So yeah, the ones that *actually* say that are clearly wrong about it. It's not only over-reactive, but untrue. 11-3 is not a bad season, even if more was possible.
But the subtle move Dabo and many make all too often is to lump all the critics in with those folks. But there were loads and loads and loads of people in '21 and '22 who weren't dismissive of the overall success of the season but who still saw this stuff -and said something, and were persistent about it, and who rebuffed the "lipstick on a pig" explanations Dabo gave. They are not "the" or even "a" problem.
Yes, Dabo gets credit for the OC change. But that's not a universal pass for everything. Special teams is still mediocre at best on the good days (and I'm not just talking about the PK position), the QB position has been managed poorly and looks like a developmental mess, game management especially in clock-critical situations is still numbingly thoughtless, playcalling is still predictable to the point of coma-inducement, etc. etc.
I haven't lost all confidence in Dabo by any means, but this is not a simple matter of "he fired someone so it's all gonna be fine."
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CU Guru [1321]
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2022 was a great year until...
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Nov 1, 2023, 1:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: You're part of the problem ] |
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They blew the game at home against the coots. The whole staff should have been put in stocks at midfield and let the fans chuck rotten tomatoes at them for that.
Everyone could see there were issues last year, if you say otherwise you're blind. But we all thought that a couple of personnel changes and some tweaks to the staff would fix it. I personally think that he didn't make enough staff changes. Maybe that happens in the off season maybe it doesn't. All we can do is sit back and wait.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: 2022 was a great year until...
Nov 1, 2023, 1:47 PM
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I understand that is said in humor and that's the game to win if you can only win 1, but when you win 11 and a conference championship the one loss doesn't make it an unsuccessful season.
Also it's not fair to belittle firing an offensive coordinator as "some tweaks to the staff".
That's a major change made by Dabo because he saw issues.
Look away from Clemson and see how many programs fired wholesale offensive staff members after winning a conference title. It would have been foolish to expect multiple coaches to be fired after last season.
You are correct. Nothing to do but wait to see what happens at the end of this seasons in terms of changed and attempted repairs.
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CU Guru [1321]
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Re: 2022 was a great year until...
Nov 1, 2023, 2:05 PM
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I apologize, perhaps "tweak" was the wrong word to use when you look at it from the standpoint of someone losing their job. But my point was, we all felt like if he got someone at oline or receiver coach that could develop these guys better that things would improve. To me that's where the glaring weakness was the past two years. And I think explaining replacing two position coaches after a championship season would have been easier to explain to the masses than replacing a coordinator. Obviously Dabo felt different and decided a new offensive philosophy was needed. I wonder if Streeter would have been successful this year had Dabo replaced Grisham and Austin instead? Oh well, just another in a long line of "what-ifs" for this season.
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Orange Blooded [2351]
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Re: You're part of the problem
Nov 1, 2023, 1:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: You're part of the problem ] |
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The way I see this is people who, like you said, saw cracks in the foundation in ‘21 and ‘22 were met with the 10 wins response. But they still saw problems despite a good record against what they saw as weak competition. Now at 4-4, the 10 wins response is not there. But the cracks remain. I just don’t see the logical dissonance you say is frustrating Dabo here.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: You're part of the problem
Nov 1, 2023, 1:44 PM
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I think the frustration would come when people act like Dabo didn't see problems.
We forget so easily that he saw enough problems that he fired his offensive coordinator.
Also in the face of the problems, the '21 and '22 teams managed double digit wins and are now being slandered as part of a downward spiral.
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Legend [19586]
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Most have seen that this offense has huge problemS (with an S) over all since
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Nov 1, 2023, 2:13 PM
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2020 and needs a complete overhaul. It wasn't just Streeter. It was him, the position coaches, the scheme (of which I'm still not convinced we moved on from) and roster management (one way portal).
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Orange Blooded [2182]
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Re: You're part of the problem
Nov 1, 2023, 2:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: You're part of the problem ] |
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Oh the 10 wins defense is still there. Pumpers fall back on the past.
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All-In [44054]
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Excuse me, but Brownell has never sounded off on the fans.***
Nov 1, 2023, 2:08 PM
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CU Guru [1639]
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Re: Excuse me, but Brownell has never sounded off on the fans.***
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Nov 1, 2023, 9:09 PM
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Yeah I don’t remember that. Usually Brownell is pretty appreciative of the fan support.
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CU Guru [1868]
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Alright jk that one was a cheapie
Nov 2, 2023, 4:23 PM
[ in reply to Excuse me, but Brownell has never sounded off on the fans.*** ] |
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Pumped for the brads’ season to get underway. Eyeing the nancy state game as our trip up this year. Just can’t wait for some tiger basketball. Unlike this year’s football tigers, the brads were really great to watch last year. Worst tourney snub I’ve ever seen. My expectations are that we’re even better this year. I think brad can do it. I think we can break through in a big way
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Excuse me, but Brownell has never sounded off on the fans.***
Nov 5, 2023, 10:52 PM
[ in reply to Excuse me, but Brownell has never sounded off on the fans.*** ] |
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“ It should be sold out," he added. "We’re playing our rival in a very important game, two teams that are playing very good basketball, very competitive. It’ll be a heck of a competitive game. I don’t know why you wouldn’t be here.”
Virtually everything you say about Brownell is quickly disproven. This is him whining about attendance at the Clemson/SCar game. Fortunately, most people have caught on to your troll act.
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Scout Team [190]
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Re: You're part of the problem
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Nov 1, 2023, 3:03 PM
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I have a problem when South Carolinas highest paid employee speaking in his official capacity gets into a rope pissing fight with a young person that gathers National Attention Did that help the image of Clemson Univ ? Would any other 7 figure executive (say jamie Dimon) get praise for telling a portion of his customers that they should just go away? Dabo sunk to a high school level with this lack of professional no matter what the caller said
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Varsity [216]
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Re: You're part of the problem
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Nov 1, 2023, 3:53 PM
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I believe Tyler lost and personally insulted Dabo by referencing his salary. Raising someone's salary is irrelevant when it comes to questioning performance. It's an affront to integrity and would annoy me just as much.
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110%er [9735]
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I agree with you.
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Nov 2, 2023, 4:29 PM
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Tyler is a piece of crap, and I had no problem at all with Dabo telling him off and calling him a smartasss and an idiot.
But the “people like you…you’re part of the problem” stuff is just very strange.
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Mascot [22]
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Re: You're part of the problem
Nov 2, 2023, 4:41 PM
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I hate that Dabo said that. My problem is it makes the 100% responsible comment inauthentic and arrogant. You can’t be 100% responsible and tell someone they are part of the problem.
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