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Orange Blooded [4070]
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Sorry if Germans, probably sour grapes but did Shipley fumble?
Oct 3, 2022, 7:41 PM
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Watching it in real time, it didn’t even occur to me. I was listening to an ACC podcast and the NC state homer was adamant Shipley fumbled it out of the end zone and it should have been pack ball. IMO, refs gave them the last 7 so we are even ? Just curious on your take
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Freshman [-79]
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No. Knee was down before the ball came out.
Oct 3, 2022, 7:44 PM
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Was still holding it against his chest when his knee hit. NC State dude was wrong.
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Orange Blooded [4070]
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Re: No. Knee was down before the ball came out.
Oct 3, 2022, 7:51 PM
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You are correct. I googled it for the heck of it and of course the first thing that popped up was a discussion on a coot forum saying it was a fumble ? They are a pathetic bunch.
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All-Conference [413]
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Re: No. Knee was down before the ball came out.
Oct 3, 2022, 9:09 PM
[ in reply to No. Knee was down before the ball came out. ] |
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I agree. He still had control of the ball when his knee was down. The play was dead at that point. Ball came loose after he crossed the goal line. Had his knee NOT been down it would’ve been a fumble OOB & State’s ball on the 25.
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Orange Blooded [3405]
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Re: No. Knee was down before the ball came out.
Oct 3, 2022, 9:54 PM
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If it came loose AFTER he crossed the goal line it would have been a TD, not a fumble.
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Hall of Famer [24878]
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Correct.***
Oct 4, 2022, 2:57 AM
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Oculus Spirit [77394]
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Was it really targeting by Makuba?
Oct 3, 2022, 7:51 PM
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There’s your answer.
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Orange Blooded [4070]
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Re: Was it really targeting by Makuba?
Oct 3, 2022, 7:54 PM
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Truth!
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Hall of Famer [23115]
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All-In [36433]
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Crown to the Body on a Fully Active and Mobile Offensive
Oct 3, 2022, 11:00 PM
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Player. Should have never been called
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CU Guru [1701]
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Re: Crown to the Body on a Fully Active and Mobile Offensive
Oct 3, 2022, 11:59 PM
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Forcible contact with the crown of the helmet to any part of a player is targeting. It doesn't matter if the player isn't defenseless and doesn't matter if the contact is to the head or neck. It's the side of the targeting rule designed to protect the defender. Leading with the crown like Mukuba did on that hit is what paralyzed Ryan Shazier.
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Oculus Spirit [77394]
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Glad we agree it wasn’t targeting.***
Oct 4, 2022, 3:55 PM
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Legend [19623]
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CU Guru [1534]
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Oculus Spirit [77394]
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How is it not debatable? Lol!***
Oct 3, 2022, 10:17 PM
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Freshman [-79]
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That was a tough call. Makuba's helmet hit the shoulder pad.
Oct 3, 2022, 10:11 PM
[ in reply to Was it really targeting by Makuba? ] |
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Maybe a 15 yarder for lowering the head, but he never should have been ejected.
The call that irked me the most was when the wusspack player gave a hard shove to Shipley as he was taking a step out of bounds. Obviously it wasn't necessary and was unsportsmanlike. There was absolutely no need for it, and there was a freakin ref right there. Shipley went flying into the sideline and could have seriously hurt himself or someone else.
Now THAT is the type of fiagrant, asinine play that should have drawn a flag and ejection, but alas the awesome ACC ref didn't throw a flag.
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CU Guru [1701]
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110%er [5456]
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Actually, yes. It was probably a fumble. I think a lot of people here are probably biased.
Oct 3, 2022, 7:54 PM
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Would have been hard to overturn whatever the call was on the field, but there was an angle that sure looked like it could have been loose prior to the knee hitting.
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Freshman [-79]
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Not at all.
Oct 3, 2022, 10:13 PM
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The ball wasn't loose when the knee hit. It was moving, but he still had the ball in his possession when his knee touched. That's NOT a fumble. No bias at all. That's why they didn't call it a fumble after the replay.
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110%er [5456]
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I’m not sure I understand. If a ball is moving indirect of the guy’s
Oct 4, 2022, 7:13 AM
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arms/hands then that’s typically when possession is lost.
And honestly I don’t think they were reviewing the fumble. Yes, they could have, but I think it was pretty obvious his knee was down and that’s what they called.
But there was only one angle where you could see it more clearly (only shown once on the broadcast). And I said above, even though I think it was a fumble, I think the play would have stood regardless if it was called one or not (it wasn’t).
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110%er [5456]
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I know this video is t the best quality, but it’s all I could find online quickly
Oct 4, 2022, 7:23 AM
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https://youtube.com/shorts/04TCSnwXM9Q?feature=share
It’s the last replay the show in the clip. When the broadcast freezes his knee being down, the ball is already coming out. That would signify it’s probably a fumble. Would still be hard to overturn since the ball is so close to his body; but it’s very likely he didn’t have possession at that point.
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Freshman [-79]
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Yes, it is moving. But never out until after down.
Oct 4, 2022, 1:40 PM
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No fumble. They play is dead the micro-second his knee hit.
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Freshman [-79]
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You might be confusing it with a reception question?
Oct 4, 2022, 1:38 PM
[ in reply to I’m not sure I understand. If a ball is moving indirect of the guy’s ] |
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It's different when you already have possession. The ball can move or you can be switching hands or whatever, but if the ball is still in your possession when you become down, then it's not a fumble. That's the key - he never lost possession until after he was down.
Make sense?
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110%er [5456]
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While I appreciate your responses, I think you may be confused with the
Oct 4, 2022, 2:10 PM
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catch rule. It states in the notes “Movement of the ball does not automatically result in loss of control.” Like if you’re tucking the ball or switching to the other arm, or if the ground moves the ball when you go down yet you still have possession.
We’re talking about a fumble here though. The opposing player dislodged the ball out of his arms. In this scenario, if the ball is loose before he establishes himself as down, then it is considered a fumble.
In this case, it would have been hard to say one way or the other, but slow motion shows that there was a reasonable doubt that he HADN’T fumbled. Obviously not conclusive, so wasn’t overturned.
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CU Guru [1788]
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110%er [8691]
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I thought it was a fumble from the replays on the scoreboard
Oct 3, 2022, 8:02 PM
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Haven’t watched it at home yet. But so what; it was close enough to stand upon review, and our D absolutely dominated nc state in the second half. The only success they had the entire half was that last drive when the result was no longer in doubt and the D kinda let up a bit.
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Orange Blooded [4070]
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Re: I thought it was a fumble from the replays on the scoreboard
Oct 3, 2022, 8:21 PM
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And the drive was aided by a bogus roughing the passer penalty.
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All-TigerNet [10171]
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Re: I thought it was a fumble from the replays on the scoreboard
Oct 3, 2022, 9:04 PM
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Sounds like you have been smoking the Coot pipe
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Hall of Famer [22693]
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I think he was down before he lost the ball.
Oct 3, 2022, 8:26 PM
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But, if he was not down I think he lost the ball before it crossed the goal line. Not sure there was enough evidence to overturn it, though. Very close.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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Hall of Famer [23115]
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Review ruled him down at the 1,no TD
Oct 3, 2022, 8:33 PM
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Surely if they had enough evidence to rule it a fumble , they would have.
Question, because I don't know, but the NCS player knocked the ball out of the EZ ? How's that handled if it was a fumble at the one yard line carried momentum into the EZ to be knocked OOB by the other team ?
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All-Pro [672]
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Re: Review ruled him down at the 1,no TD
Oct 3, 2022, 9:54 PM
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It would be a turnover. It’s a rare form of touchback, State would get the ball at the 25.
It’s a pretty well hated rule. But we’ve also been the beneficiary, Kvon Wallace saved the game because of that rule against A&M in 18.
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Orange Blooded [2233]
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Re: Review ruled him down at the 1,no TD
Oct 3, 2022, 11:14 PM
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First I think it’s a stupid rule no matter if it’s benefited Clemson or not it. It should go away. To me it should be handled just like if a player fumbles the ball in the field of play. If the ball continues to go forward, no one recovers it, and it eventually goes out of bounds then the ball is placed where the offensive player last possessed it. The defense never had possession to begin with so why would they be awarded possession if they didn’t recover the ball either.
Message was edited by: Clemson_country89®
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Oculus Spirit [94260]
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That NCS player was well coached.
Oct 4, 2022, 4:40 AM
[ in reply to Review ruled him down at the 1,no TD ] |
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He was trained to knock any fumble which rolled across the goal line out of the endzone knowing it was a turnover. That's how it's done.
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110%er [5456]
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If he forceably knocks the ball out of bounds in the end zone then
Oct 4, 2022, 7:16 AM
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it would actually stay Clemson ball. You have to do it discretely if your intent is to make it go out of bounds for a touchback. I know weird, right?
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Trainer [38]
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Re: Sorry if Germans, probably sour grapes but did Shipley fumble?
Oct 3, 2022, 8:37 PM
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Yes, def a fumble. Ball was moving as his knee hit. I'm class of 99'. So obviously I'm team Clemson.
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All-TigerNet [10171]
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Re: Sorry if Germans, probably sour grapes but did Shipley fumble?
Oct 3, 2022, 9:07 PM
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I'm class of 98 and don't need glasses lol
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Freshman [-79]
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All-In [36433]
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Orange Blooded [2353]
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Re: Sorry if Germans, probably sour grapes but did Shipley fumble?
Oct 3, 2022, 8:49 PM
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If he fumbled, ref would have told us.
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All-In [38945]
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Re: Sorry if Germans, probably sour grapes but did Shipley fumble?
Oct 3, 2022, 8:53 PM
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Nope... He was down at the 1 foot line.
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110%er [5166]
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Re: Sorry if Germans, probably sour grapes but did Shipley fumble?
Oct 3, 2022, 8:59 PM
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You could make the argument it was a incomplete pass. He seemed to be struggling to control the ball all the way to the goal line. I think there's not enough evidence to overturn anything that was called on the field.
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All-American [596]
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Re: Sorry if Germans, probably sour grapes but did Shipley fumble?
Oct 3, 2022, 9:03 PM
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30-13 without garbage time TD. Doesn’t matter. I think it was a fumble though. We dominated NCSU.
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CU Guru [1273]
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Re: Sorry if Germans, probably sour grapes but did Shipley fumble?
Oct 3, 2022, 9:40 PM
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The ball came loose after his knee was down - the ball was at the 1/2 yard line (+/-). Good call.
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Freshman [-79]
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Letterman [257]
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I thought it was and that it was a turnover.
Oct 3, 2022, 9:27 PM
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I was glad when they only took the touchdown away and gave it to us at the 1, I thought for sure it would be NC State ball.
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Freshman [-79]
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Why? Please explain your reasoning.***
Oct 3, 2022, 10:17 PM
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Freshman [-79]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Sorry if Germans, probably sour grapes but did Shipley fumble?
Oct 3, 2022, 10:47 PM
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Was saying the same thing. It was close but the knee was down before he started losing the ball.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Sorry if Germans, probably sour grapes but did Shipley fumble?
Oct 3, 2022, 11:11 PM
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I don’t know if he fumbled, but I did see that Clemson scored 30 points and NC State only scored 20.
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CU Guru [1534]
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yes.. should have a been a touchback and pack ball
Oct 3, 2022, 11:36 PM
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but, mukuba's targeting (i despise that word) and the roughing the passer call made up for it. so the pack has no legit gripe.
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Orange Blooded [2233]
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Re: yes.. should have a been a touchback and pack ball
Oct 3, 2022, 11:54 PM
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null
Message was edited by: Clemson_country89®
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Orange Blooded [2233]
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Re: yes.. should have a been a touchback and pack ball
Oct 3, 2022, 11:56 PM
[ in reply to yes.. should have a been a touchback and pack ball ] |
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To me there were a few flags that should not have been. The PI in the endzone to give State its first TD. Then on the very next drive the State player doing the exact same thing yet no PI was called. On the last drive the State o-lineman shoved our d-lineman into the QB to take the INT away and extend the drive. The zebras made a lot of calls that hopefully the ACC will talked with them about. No need for them to influence/interfere in a great game.
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Oculus Spirit [94260]
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I think it was but the review was limited to whether his...
Oct 4, 2022, 4:37 AM
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knee was down before the ball crossed the goal line. No officials like overturning a call on the field. They protect themselves from criticism if at all possible and overturning the TD call was enough to satisfy any questions in their minds.
That would not have changed the outcome of the game, imo. It's in the books now.
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All-American [593]
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Re: Sorry if Germans, probably sour grapes but did Shipley fumble?
Oct 4, 2022, 7:40 AM
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My apologies as I don't post on this message board as much as most, but can you explain this often used reference to "Germans"? I see it frequently but cannot figure out the meaning based upon the context in which it's being used. Thanks in advance...
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110%er [5456]
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CU Guru [1550]
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Re: Sorry if Germans, probably sour grapes but did Shipley fumble?
Oct 4, 2022, 7:43 AM
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Everyone in my household thought it was a fumble and exhaled a HUUUUUUUUUUUGE sigh of relief when the call only stood as being down at the one yard line.
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