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Hall of Famer [20141]
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The PROBLEM with Mask-Wearing
Oct 30, 2020, 10:11 AM
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There's no irrefutable evidence that its making any real difference if you simply look at the current testing statistics. We've been Mask-Wearing AND heavily limited on gatherings, required to Social Distance ourselves, as well as having Travel Restrictions & Mandatory Quarantines in place FOR SEVEN MONTHS!!!.....
... but Infection Rates & Death Rates are SPIKING HIGHER all across the USA as well as the rest of the WORLD.
Bottom line: There's really NO PROOF that Mask-Wearing is making any discernible difference amid this outbreak....
"What you want me to do, Ron?"
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110%er [9015]
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Well, yeah...but...
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Oct 30, 2020, 10:13 AM
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It’s just an easy way for the “good people” to show how good they are.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Well, yeah...but...
Oct 30, 2020, 10:25 AM
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Yeah, and for dikheads to show how dikish they really are.
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All-In [36448]
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I like it cuz you can mouth whatever you want to people
Oct 30, 2020, 10:15 AM
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throughout the day and they have no idea what you said.
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Orange Blooded [4822]
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Also you can shoplift under it.
Oct 30, 2020, 1:02 PM
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Like Ribeyes and such.
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All-American [561]
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Re: The PROBLEM with Mask-Wearing
Oct 30, 2020, 10:23 AM
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Bull. Proper masking reduces spread and has been shown in laboratories. These bandana types have been proven to be ineffective. Read before you spit out absolute trash. Also proven that masks do not reduce oxygen. Wear a mask to reduce spread and increase chance of getting through the football season without more restrictions.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: The PROBLEM with Mask-Wearing
Oct 30, 2020, 10:23 AM
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I would argue that many of US are not wearing masks or social distancing.
The other argument is to what are you comparing these spikes. You have NO idea what the numbers might be if some of us were not being diligent about the safety precautions - IOW you have no control group to compare our stats to.
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110%er [9015]
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“Control group”
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Oct 30, 2020, 1:05 PM
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Wowwww... that’s a really sciencey word. You blinded me with science.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: The PROBLEM with Mask-Wearing
Oct 30, 2020, 10:25 AM
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Masks help to protect others if the right mask is worn properly. They aren't full proof. A surgical mask is 60% effective in studies. KN95 is 95% effective as far as spreading the virus to others from your nose or mouth. A gator is basically worthless. A bandana is almost worthless. There is irrefutable evidence that the right masks help though. On a different note, its pretty crazy that after the Sturgis rally, South Dakota now has the highest rate of covid cases per testing. 47% of the people being tested in South Dakota are positive for the virus.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: The PROBLEM with Mask-Wearing
Oct 30, 2020, 10:29 AM
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Carl,
WOW !! They went from 100 a day the day before the rally started to 1000 cases per day on Oct 29th - a ten fold increase.
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CU Guru [1663]
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110%er [9015]
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“Fashion use” Sooooo true. LOL I love it***
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Oct 30, 2020, 11:06 AM
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Orange Blooded [2718]
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Your deductions have been infected by a viral load
Oct 30, 2020, 10:26 AM
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..... of 100% Grade A Horse Hockey.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Hall of Famer [20141]
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Re: Your deductions have been infected by a viral load
Oct 30, 2020, 10:34 AM
[ in reply to Your deductions have been infected by a viral load ] |
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Then WHY are there out of control Infection Rates WORLDWIDE?
RIGHT NOW.... TODAY!
Get your head out of that Horses ### and turn on your TV.
YOUR PLAN IS NOT WORKING!!!
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CU Guru [1515]
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Hall of Famer [20141]
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Cute graph... do you "real life"?
Oct 30, 2020, 10:45 AM
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Your NOT paying attention!
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CU Guru [1515]
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Re: Cute graph... do you "real life"?
Oct 30, 2020, 10:53 AM
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Actually 4 graphs and read the study. Real life and the experts would indicate that the higher transmission now is attributable to lower humidity so the virus stays in the air longer and the fact that people are spending more time indoors. That and we have a bunch of maverick's in this country that think they know more than the experts do and a President that (mis)leads the maverick's.
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All-In [25697]
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Re: Your WRONG . . . . Period.
Oct 30, 2020, 2:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: Your WRONG . . . . Period. ] |
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Valiant effort but you’re not going to get anywhere with a majority of people on this site. Data, stats, etc. mean nothing to the willfully ignorant.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Your deductions have been infected by a viral load
Oct 30, 2020, 10:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: Your deductions have been infected by a viral load ] |
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Put it this way, if nobody wore a mask and everybody crowded together in confined areas, you would see more death and infections than we see now.
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Legend [16250]
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It really is THAT simple***
Oct 30, 2020, 11:17 AM
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110%er [6281]
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MVP [518]
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Mascot [15]
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Re: The PROBLEM with Mask-Wearing
Oct 30, 2020, 10:29 AM
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Not true - multiple analyses including in SC showing clearly localities with mask requirements have lower incidence rates than nearby locations that don't. People confuse the main reason to wear a mask is to protect others if you are shedding and don't know it (or do know it for that matter). People who say I know people who wore a mask and still got it show their ignorance. Probably they got it from someone who refused to wear a mask. Not perfect and no absolutes but on a population basis, clearly effective and best current option.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: The PROBLEM with Mask-Wearing
Oct 30, 2020, 10:29 AM
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Sigh, I am so tired of this but here we go. masks are shown to reduce the transmission of resp. infections. As high as 80%.
Mask reduce the transmission vectors of respiratory infections/virus. Along with other practices, it reduces the cases than what would occur without a mask.
Masks, like vaccines, work more at the macro level rather than at the micro/individual level.
But here is the key with Coivid - it is the Travis Ettienne if viral infection rates. It does not need 30 carries to get to 100, it can do it with only a few attempts. The infection rate and vectors makes it quite a mess, especially since it is highly contagious when there are no signs of infection.
One kid can infect 100+ people at an event. But lets keep it simple.Lets assume:
One person can infect 10 people if left uncontrolled. In 5 infection cycles, that 1 person can turn into 10,000 infections. 1 x 10 x 10 x10 x10 = 10,000
Now lets just say that masks are only 15% effective as a worst case. Thus 1 person infects folks at a rate of 8.5 per cycle. That is 1 x 8.5 x 8.5 x 8.5 x = 5,225.06 infections. "Only" 15% actually equates to a a near 48% reduction in total cases.
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Orange Blooded [2113]
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+1 for football reference and utilizing math
Oct 30, 2020, 10:35 AM
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CU Guru [1663]
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Re: The PROBLEM with Mask-Wearing
Oct 30, 2020, 10:36 AM
[ in reply to Re: The PROBLEM with Mask-Wearing ] |
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mr "here we go again"... please clarify what a "mask" is for your data and conclusions.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: The PROBLEM with Mask-Wearing
Oct 30, 2020, 10:43 AM
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7253999/
4.1. Mechanism of physical protection of masks
The physical barrier provided by a mask can effectively prevent the respiratory tract from contacting the outside virus, thereby reducing the risk of respiratory virus infections [36]. A recent study showed that SARS-CoV-2 can travel up to 4 m (?13 feet) from patients and be widely distributed on daily objects (e.g. floors, computer mice, trash cans) [37]. Surgical masks are able to reduce influenza virus RNA in respiratory droplets and coronavirus RNA in aerosols [38]. The SARS-CoV-2 aerosol, mainly appearing in submicron region (d p between 0.25 and 1.0 ?m) and supermicron region (d p > 2.5 ?m) [39], can be effectively filtered out from the inhaled air by either surgical masks or N95 masks [3,40]. Comparison of the incidence of COVID-19 in Hongkong, China with Spain, Italy, Germany, France, U.S., U.K., Singapore, and South Korea showed that community-wide mask wearing may assist in controlling COVID-19 with reduced emission of infected saliva and respiratory droplets from mildly symptomatic patients [41].
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All-TigerNet [12845]
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Re: The PROBLEM with Mask-Wearing
Oct 30, 2020, 10:42 AM
[ in reply to Re: The PROBLEM with Mask-Wearing ] |
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N95's are significantly more effective than regular masks, otherwise virtually every healthcare worker would have tested positive. The other masks and cloth masks do probably very, very little to protect one from the virus, but most likely offer some protection to others. Social distancing may be the chief factor in reducing spread. In the meantime, folks should wear a mask. It will not hurt you and probably does offer some degree of protecting the overall herd. We can and will have a post mortem later on how effective masks were. There is a recent article in the Wall Street Journal by a UCLA MD showing that the overall benefit of masks may be fairly low, but I'm sure there will be other studies to the contrary. Wear the mask. It will not allow others to control your mind. It will not lower your oxygen level. It's just resistance for the sake of resistance.
Message was edited by: rons1®
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CU Medallion [67303]
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Simpler: If you are mentally and physically unable to wrap
Oct 30, 2020, 10:45 AM
[ in reply to Re: The PROBLEM with Mask-Wearing ] |
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your head around the concept of simply wearing a mask because it MIGHT help out during this pandemic, then your genes deserve to be flushed out the bottom of the gene pool filter. It simply is not that huge an imposition. It just ain't.
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CU Guru [1663]
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Re: The PROBLEM with Mask-Wearing
Oct 30, 2020, 10:31 AM
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a mask that does not block the virus is as useful as chainlink fence blocking snow in a snowstorm... if you wear the right mask it offers protection. If you don't cover your nose and mouth (like alot of people wear them)its useless... but you are compliant...
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110%er [6825]
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Re: The PROBLEM with Mask-Wearing
Oct 30, 2020, 10:36 AM
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Well.... kinda funny a bunch of southerns talkign about a snowstorm but ok
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CU Guru [1663]
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Re: The PROBLEM with Mask-Wearing
Oct 30, 2020, 10:42 AM
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well how much got thru before it clogged up... that is the issue... I lived that pictures growing up, fence in a blowing snowstorm was like no fence at all... that is a pretty beat up fence. And it looks alot more like big flake falling snow than blowing snow.
The point is there are fences designed to block snow, snow fences, and there are fences designed to keep things in or out of an area... all are called "fences"...
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Hall of Famer [20141]
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Re: The PROBLEM with Mask-Wearing
Oct 30, 2020, 10:54 AM
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The problem is expecting "a fence" to give you the protection of "A WALL".
Definition of INSANITY- Doing the same action repeatedly and expecting a different result.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: The PROBLEM with Mask-Wearing
Oct 30, 2020, 11:07 AM
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The point of the mask is to reduce, not eliminate transmission. Being a barrier is all we need to reduce the spread. If you want an impenetrable wall, then a mandatory 1 month government mandated lockdown would do it. Mask are a lot easier to live with.
Keep in mind that a little can do a lot
Thus little 3-4 foot "wall" contributed to more deaths than this:">
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110%er [8280]
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The mask/fence is not for protection
Oct 30, 2020, 11:28 AM
[ in reply to Re: The PROBLEM with Mask-Wearing ] |
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it's to slow the spread (just like the picture of the fence illustrates). While the spreading slows, it gives the experts more time to work on a vaccine. I imagine if NOBODY had worn masks during the pandemic, we would probably be on wave 5. Wave 2 is hitting Europe HARD right now due to the loosening of travel restrictions during the summer months. Get ready, it'll be coming back around again to USA.
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All-In [44224]
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The ACTUAL problem with mask wearing is
Oct 30, 2020, 10:43 AM
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that most people wear the wrong kind of mask and/or wear their mask the wrong way.
People walking around with cotton face masks and bandanas aren't really accomplishing much. Same for those who wear a higher quality mask but keep it below their nose or mouth.
If people would address this, we would absolutely see far fewer numbers of infections. That's definitely true, and there is no ambiguity on this topic.
The other issue with the rising case numbers is that we are testing a lot. And we are using tests that are very sensitive in detecting the presence of coronavirus. It's debatable whether all of the positive results are truly COVID-19 or another type of coronavirus, and regardless, whether or not the viral load is clinically significant (i.e., if the amount of virus present is enough to infect the individual being tested or if it is enough to be transmitted).
All of these issues, plus the fact that the entirety of COVID-19 has been politicized to disgusting levels, makes for a lot of misleading and confusing information.
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110%er [9015]
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Exactly.***
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Oct 30, 2020, 11:10 AM
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CU Guru [1551]
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Re: The ACTUAL problem with mask wearing is
Oct 30, 2020, 12:46 PM
[ in reply to The ACTUAL problem with mask wearing is ] |
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I agree with most of what you said, but most everything that I have read (Johns Hopkins, etc.) say that MULTI-LAYER cotton masks ARE effective in reducing the risk of getting COVID-19, and even more so reducing the risk of spreading COVID-19. Of course, I've seen many people purposely gaming the rules at games who would not surprise me if they wear a cotton mask with 3 layers of cheese cloth...selfish people with bad intensions.
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110%er [9110]
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Then why is it that the health experts can point to.........
Oct 30, 2020, 11:26 AM
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gatherings of people not wearing masks (like motorcycle rallies, parties, White House gatherings, etc.) where the positive cases spike????
I look a it like this - wearing a mask can only help - not wearing a mask puts a person at greater risk.
The biggest thing that works from what the health people are saying is social distancing - keeping away from each other makes sense - crowd together and it's a problem waiting to happen.
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All-TigerNet [13070]
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And how much are you really sacrificing to wear a mask?
Oct 30, 2020, 1:16 PM
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Even if it's only helping a little bit the cost-benefit seems pretty good to me.
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CU Guru [1676]
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Re: The PROBLEM with Mask-Wearing
Oct 30, 2020, 1:19 PM
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It also lives on surfaces for something like 9 hrs, so there is other ways of catching it. Stay off of Facebook and listen to Dr's. Wearing a mask is only part of what people need to do. Wash hands and social distance. They've been saying that for months but u can't tell some people anything. Well u can they hear what they want to. Since it's still fake news and all.
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CU Guru [1676]
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Re: The PROBLEM with Mask-Wearing
Oct 30, 2020, 1:19 PM
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It also lives on surfaces for something like 9 hrs, so there is other ways of catching it. Stay off of Facebook and listen to Dr's. Wearing a mask is only part of what people need to do. Wash hands and social distance. They've been saying that for months but u can't tell some people anything. Well u can they hear what they want to. Since it's still fake news and all.
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CU Guru [1676]
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Re: The PROBLEM with Mask-Wearing
Oct 30, 2020, 1:19 PM
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It also lives on surfaces for something like 9 hrs, so there is other ways of catching it. Stay off of Facebook and listen to Dr's. Wearing a mask is only part of what people need to do. Wash hands and social distance. They've been saying that for months but u can't tell some people anything. Well u can they hear what they want to. Since it's still fake news and all.
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