Replies: 33
| visibility 1,501
|
Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 73%
Posts: 3171
Joined: 6/12/20
|
Stark Raving Brad - Fixing the stupid. Dec. 3rd
2
14
14
Dec 3, 2023, 9:28 PM
|
|
Opponent: Pitt
On November 29th, in the wake of the Basketball team’s win over Alabama, I poked the bear of the Brownell Bros. by pointing out they had done little to analyze the win over the Tide. They had, as usual, stroked the egos a good bit, but substantive commentary about the game seemed to have eluded them.
Importantly, I pointed out that for two straight games we had shot >50% on three’s, and in the win over Bama, had limited ourselves to only 21 three’s for the whole game. Finally, I pointed out that our game where we shot the most 3-pointers, we also had our lowest point total scored for the season (Davidson, 31 three’s, 68 points). The summation of this isn’t hard: this team is going to be demonstrably better when it takes good shots in the extreme. This isn’t new for Brownell coached teams in any way....
Toward the end, I also stated this, “Case in point: last night at 4:38 left and the lead down to 7, and again at 3:04 left and the lead at 6, Chase Hunter hits two key 3-pointers. Great; love that he hit them.
But those are two critical points late in an Away game against a good defensive opponent. And the best Clemson can do is let a kid who shot 36% from 3 last year while starting {at PG} jerk up two three's?
They escaped the percentages last night. Play that game all year and it will catch up to them.”
Boy, did that strike a nerve. The “best” comment I got back went something like, “Big game players make big game shots.” LOFL....
No.... 36% shooters will shoot 36% over time regardless the clock or the personal will.
Well, I hate to say, “I told you so”, but seriously, something has to give. Brownell: c’mon man....
So, there we are in the very next game after Bama, and we’re trying to put Pitt away. From 16:20 until 7:33, the lead never goes under 9 points. This is great game control. But then Pitt beings to make a move, and the home crowd, never to be underestimated, starts to warm to the task. A three gets Pitt to within 6. Back and forth for the next three minutes with the lead between 6 and 9, until at 4:25 Pitt hits another 3 to cut the lead to 4.
This is Massey’s #79 team we’re playing, not Bama. Pitt hasn’t beaten anyone ranked higher than #135, and got punked by #61 Florida by 15. IF you want to be a good, non-bubble NCAA team, you’ve got to beat these teams routinely. So, when you find your lead trimmed to 4 on some else’s home court with 4 minutes to go, you MUST get good shots. That’s all there is to it, or indeed, you’ll be inconsistent as heck, and lose games you shouldn’t.
So, what did we do while up 4 with 4 to play? Well, there’s good ol’ Chase Hunter clanking a 3 with 4:19 to play almost exactly like at Bama except the ball doesn’t go in. Pitt gets the Defensive rebound and ultimately cuts the lead to 2 without us ever getting the ball back. It’s now 70-68 with 3:41 to play.
Over the next minute Ian Scheiffelin makes a couple of plays, one on a nice assist from Hunter, and the lead is 6 at 2:32 on the clock. We’ve started to reassert here, and PJ Hall makes a nice steal, but then with 2:14 to play there’s Hunter firing the cannons again from deep. He again misses, and Pitt will ultimately get an open look at a 3 that could have cut the lead in half back to 3 again. If you keep giving home teams a look at a Win, they’ll ultimately find it.
Indeed, these are the times that try men’s souls, and this is critical to learn: Brownell’s teams historically lose tight games because of bad shot selection; Brownell’s teams historically go on prolonged scoring droughts because of bad shot selection; Brownell’s teams cough up huge leads in big games because of bad shot selection; and Brownell’s teams lose to bad teams often because of bad shot selection.
Just think of Brownell’s two best teams, 2011 and 2018, and you see that his best teams had a ready-made Floor General to run the offense apporpriately. In those cases, Demontez Stitt and a relatively healthy Shelton Mitchell. Those guys were “coaches on the floor”, which is exactly what Brownell needs.
On the other side of the coin, go back and watch the Morehead State game last year after we went up 15 in the first half. The MSU Eagles were little more than preview of the first 4 minutes against Davidson this year, as the Wildcats raced away, 17 to 2.
It is what it is. The team put a game at risk against a mediocre Pitt team because it wasted a multitude of offensive possessions during the game chucking 30 three’s. They had only taken 21 three’s in a historic win against Bama, but then they come back and chuck 17 three’s in the 1st half alone against Pitt. Laughably, Clemson led for 34 and a half minutes of the game, and by as much as 15, yet the lead was only 2 with 3 and a half to play.
Worse; players not named Hall or Girard shot 2 for 15 from three on the game, with Hunter being 0 for 5 by himself.
Lesson? 36% shooters are indeed only that, and when you need points, you need better odds if you want to consistently close games out. Somewhere along the way, for this “most talented team”, someone’s going to have to take control. Coaches?
Welcome to Stark Raving Brad.....
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1425]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 1626
Joined: 11/21/00
|
Re: Stark Raving Brad - Fixing the stupid. Dec. 3rd
4
Dec 3, 2023, 9:32 PM
|
|
I’m just glad we didn’t cave at crunch time and pulled out a win on the road.
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6687]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 9749
Joined: 9/22/11
|
Fix your thinking, and that would help..
4
Dec 3, 2023, 9:37 PM
|
|
your analysis is negative criticism...try being more pawsitive...
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 73%
Posts: 3171
Joined: 6/12/20
|
Why should I be positive about shooting 30 three's?
1
Dec 3, 2023, 9:49 PM
|
|
If it isn't corrected now, then come March, when we absolutely need points so as not to lose to an Oakland or a Morehead State or a Loyola Chicago, etc., those good shots, and the points that come from them, won't be there. This isn't just a 2-game problem in 2023.
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6687]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 9749
Joined: 9/22/11
|
The end result Tigers won
3
Dec 3, 2023, 9:54 PM
|
|
an away game, over all your thinking is stinking.
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5394]
TigerPulse: 70%
Posts: 9278
Joined: 11/29/99
|
Offense looks a little better than before
1
1
Dec 3, 2023, 9:40 PM
|
|
Actually saw some nice passes in/out of the paint, but not a lick of defense to be fair. Pitt has 2 players that kept them in the game and ZERO adjustments were made by Bad-Brad. I want to hope that they will continue to improve offensively and make some changes to the M2M philosophy.
|
|
|
|
|
Scout Team [155]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 52
Joined: 11/30/23
|
Re: Stark Raving Brad - Fixing the stupid. Dec. 3rd
5
5
Dec 3, 2023, 9:45 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11520]
TigerPulse: 85%
Posts: 13663
Joined: 10/27/04
|
Re: Stark Raving Brad - Fixing the stupid. Dec. 3rd
3
Dec 3, 2023, 9:47 PM
|
|
Interesting prospective but the Tigers won. Let's see if that becomes a crutch later in the season, but right now impressed with the team. They could go how Hall, Girrard and Chase play but a lot of other good teams have a "go to three."
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1165]
TigerPulse: 82%
Posts: 631
Joined: 7/8/12
|
You have a really elevated and delusional view of yourself.
3
Dec 3, 2023, 9:58 PM
|
|
Nm
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [77397]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28695
Joined: 12/1/18
|
If anyone was curious I think O'high/ho-Mike is
7
7
Dec 3, 2023, 10:00 PM
|
|
stark raving scared he's wrong.
Undefeated.
🤫
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4610]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3371
Joined: 8/14/01
|
Re: If anyone was curious I think O'high/ho-Mike is
Dec 4, 2023, 11:52 AM
|
|
Last season we started 7-0 in ACC play, too, including a victory over Duke.
Couldn't beat SCAR or Loyola-Chicago, but were UNDEFEATED in the ACC at that point. After beating Duke, we of course lost to WFU (a team we had already beaten). But we got to 10-1! Then we lost 3 in a row and 4 of 5 before picking up up some wins against the bottom of the league and losing (again) to UVA.
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [77397]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28695
Joined: 12/1/18
|
Yes, all of that is correct.***
1
Dec 4, 2023, 1:05 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6729]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8298
Joined: 7/23/05
|
Did Brad do anything well?
7
7
Dec 3, 2023, 10:06 PM
|
|
Besides win and make you that much happier to post a book about what the team didn’t do well?
Just FYI, you can’t blame Coach for everything bad that happens and then not give him any credit whatsoever for the good (like the rebounding, the shooting, or, I dunno, the Win).
I’ll reserve my thoughts on Brad until this team has played more than 7 games and I’m not at all stupid enough to think we are a great team this early in the season. That said we are a good team (the announcers and pollsters aren’t some random posters on a teams message board like us) and who knows what the season holds.
I quite frankly don’t need your silly analysis of everything negative with no positive—I’ll leave that to the CFB playoff committee…
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [77397]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28695
Joined: 12/1/18
|
Welcome to Stark raving-skeerd.
3
Dec 3, 2023, 10:12 PM
|
|
Pride is one of the 7 deadly sins.
FYI, Ohio-Mike.
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 73%
Posts: 3171
Joined: 6/12/20
|
Just FYI, as you say - I gave four reasons that this issue is more important
Dec 4, 2023, 7:57 AM
[ in reply to Did Brad do anything well? ] |
|
than just a "current year complaint". It's Historically important as to why Brownell's teams lose games they shouldn't.
In other words, he hasn't coached "shot selection" properly in 13 years. It is what it is.
If you want to be indignant towards me, have at it. It just makes you sound presumptively petty.
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [335]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 207
Joined: 1/7/05
|
Re: Stark Raving Brad - Fixing the stupid. Dec. 3rd
1
1
Dec 3, 2023, 10:07 PM
|
|
I was saying much the same thing toward the end of the game. With a player like Hall, the ball needs to go through him. I was cringing myself when Hunter jacked up those 3’s.
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1408]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1156
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Good win Tigers!
3
Dec 3, 2023, 10:21 PM
|
|
Keep up the hard work! It is appreciated!
|
|
|
|
|
Athletic Dir [898]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 426
Joined: 12/25/98
|
Re: Stark Raving Brad - Fixing the stupid. Dec. 3rd
3
Dec 3, 2023, 11:10 PM
|
|
I used to think about 3 point shots the same as you. A friend of mine pointed out that 3s are actually the correct shots if the defense gives it. 36% is around the NBA average for 3s. No team averages over 50% from 2 point range. You get x amount of possessions a game and your best move is to score in close, but being denied that, an open 3 is not that poor of a choice. Maybe they took more 3s today, but the Pitt front line was unusually tall. A conference win on the road is tough no matter the opponent. We hung in and survived their run. You may be right but it my be more pleasurable to bank the win against a night when all the shots a clunkers.
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 73%
Posts: 3171
Joined: 6/12/20
|
No one argues that threes can have a greater efficiency
1
Dec 4, 2023, 12:19 AM
|
|
over some number of possessions. But here , I’m not talking averages over games, I’m talking a one possession choice. It’s late game, and you need points most of all. If you knew how many points you needed to win, and the number of likely possessions left, then you could calculate the efficiency you needed to get there. But all you know is that they’re trying to catch you. So what you need is the thing that guarantees points, or the closest thing to it.
The short of it is that if your opponent makes every three while you make every two, they only gain one point on you each trip. Their three is only worth 1 point. If the lead is 10, then they need 10 possessions to catch you. If there’s only 2 minutes left, they’re going to only get maybe 3 possessions, and thus they’ll fall 7 possessions short.
But if you don’t score points on your trips, their three’s are worth the full 3 points, and they only actually need a little over 3 trips to catch you, not the original 10.
So You don’t need efficient average, you need the best guarantee of points in the now. They aren’t fully dissimilar, but they aren’t the same either.
|
|
|
|
|
All-Conference [403]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 581
Joined: 10/12/03
|
Re: Stark Raving Brad - Fixing the stupid. Dec. 3rd
2
Dec 4, 2023, 12:33 AM
|
|
You need professional help
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 73%
Posts: 3171
Joined: 6/12/20
|
No, I am quite happy not being in the Brad Brownell
Dec 4, 2023, 2:04 AM
|
|
azz-kissing and boot licking club.
America is filled with those who worship the altar of mediocre political liars. You don’t need me to make it one more.
Have your fun while it lasts, pumpkin.
clemsontiger1989
|
|
|
|
|
All-Conference [403]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 581
Joined: 10/12/03
|
Re: No, I am quite happy not being in the Brad Brownell
2
Dec 4, 2023, 10:33 AM
|
|
I would have fired him a couple of times by now, so I'm not in that club either.
But he does seem to finally have it going, and since I am actually a Clemson fan, I am really happy to see that. This team could not be off to a better start, and yet here you are coming up with mountains of drivel every day trying to justify your preconceived notions that reads like some sort of stream of consciousness novel -- if the narrator had sniffed glue for 50 years.
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 73%
Posts: 3171
Joined: 6/12/20
|
I'll answer you tonight with the next post
Dec 4, 2023, 11:05 AM
|
|
For now, suffice it to say that there are currently 10 undefeated teams in the Top 30. Not all of them are going to win a Championship, and none of them will stay undefeated for the full year. Teams have to get better, even if they're undefeated.
clemsontiger1989
|
|
|
|
|
Athletic Dir [893]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 479
Joined: 11/13/22
|
Re: Stark Raving Brad - Fixing the stupid. Dec. 3rd
4
Dec 4, 2023, 8:09 AM
|
|
I can understand the frustration with Hunter's shot selection but I'm not overly worried about it moving forward. However, Chauncey Wiggins' love affair with the 3 is something that should be reeled in a little.
Chase Hunter was at one time completely handicapped offensively. 31% FG and 19% 3pt during his Sophomore year. It was all mental and he no confidence in his shot. His junior year showed a lot of improvement but he still struggled. Fast forward to the present and he's now hitting multiple game winners, has led the team in scoring several times.
The player he now is compared to a couple of years ago is night and day. Similar to the Tyson Hunter improvement. In my humble opinion, Chase is just as important to our success as Hall, JGIII or anyone.
I'd much rather want Chase with the confidence to take those shots as opposed to not. There will be a game (or games) this year in which he will be our leading scorer and is heavily relied upon.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4610]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3371
Joined: 8/14/01
|
Re: Stark Raving Brad - Fixing the stupid. Dec. 3rd
Dec 4, 2023, 11:58 AM
|
|
Hunter Tyson is one of the very few players I've seen get better every year under CBB. I've seen a lot of players regress, and a lot of players sort of muddle around being more or less what they were in their first year.
In the Hunter Tyson mold, R.J Godfrey seems to be much improved, this year.
But is P.J. Hall that much better than he was in his freshman year?
I mean, sure, everyone gets at least a little better with more years of practice and playing in the ACC, but how many players have we had that really got BETTER under CBB.
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [12631]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6327
Joined: 12/24/15
|
Re: Stark Raving Brad - Fixing the stupid. Dec. 3rd
3
Dec 4, 2023, 8:30 AM
|
|
36% 3 point shooting is the same as 54% 2 point shooting and that remains true whether early in the game or late.
There are 3 point shots and there are poor 3 point shots, same as with 2 point shots.
We're not shooting 54% on 2 point shots most games either, so if a guy is hot and the 3 pointer is open and not from 35-40ft, I have zero problem with that.
This team will eventually lose and may lose several games in a row even. It's hard to win on the road consistently.
In the mean time, enjoy the winning and the fact that this is a much better team than we've had in some time.
It's ok to criticize, but I see more things to be positive about for sure.
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 73%
Posts: 3171
Joined: 6/12/20
|
I respect the opinion but I think you are conflating
Dec 4, 2023, 9:29 AM
|
|
efficiency and lead enlargement. From a value generated, a 36% three is equal to 54% on a two. But not from a lead enlargement perspective, which is what is necessary in close games.
In close games, a 36% three is equal only to a 64% chance that the lead will not grow.
The analogy in football is kicking a FG in the last 10 minutes when you’re up 3. You “take the points”, not because 3 creates a huge difference in the score, but because it makes it easier for you to eventually get the lead back if the opponent scores a TD. You take the points now, then they score 7. You’re only down 1 now, and only need a FG to win the game. That FG is much easier than you scoring a TD yourself, so the likelihood of you winning is greater because of the original FG.
It’s called protecting a lead, and it’s why you shoot two’s not 36% threes late in BBall games. imho
rons1®
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1999]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1854
Joined: 9/22/09
|
Re: Stark Raving Brad - Fixing the stupid. Dec. 3rd
1
Dec 4, 2023, 9:05 AM
|
|
It's ok though because that 3 pointer than Pitt took after Chase's miss at 2:14 was by Leggett.
And you see, Leggett was 1-2 from three for the game, and he's nowhere near a 50% 3 point shooter on average, most certainly not a 66% three point shooter, so giving him that three was the correct move.
Heck, we could have just left Blake Hinson wide open from three on that possession too, because he was 6-10 from three for the game, no way he's a 60% three point shooter on average, so he couldn't have made that shot.
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1408]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1156
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Stark Raving Brad - Fixing the stupid. Dec. 3rd
Dec 4, 2023, 9:22 AM
|
|
Based on anti brad/Keller rules a shot taken by a 36% shooter is horrible, but giving up a shot to a 30% shooter is also horrible. I would have preferred a better close out on the latter.
Rules can be changed based on how people feel. It’s like dealing with the playoff committee.
Massey or KenPom this week? Whichever one helps the gloom and doom crusade.
Go Tigers! Be well!
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4065]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4551
Joined: 3/6/01
|
You snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, twice?
4
Dec 4, 2023, 10:27 AM
|
|
Mike, I gotta say, it appears that you prefer defeat to victory. You are guilty of precisely the same tunnel vision that afflicts the “other side” of our internal war. Our war need not be fought until early spring.
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 73%
Posts: 3171
Joined: 6/12/20
|
and yet last year's team was effectively out of the NCAAT by Christmas
Dec 4, 2023, 11:01 AM
|
|
what happens in Nov/Dec is just as important as in Feb/Mar - at times. Unfortunately, you don't know "when" until it's too late - like last year.
I also think this team has a weakness that will hurt them much more later in the year than now. When they get up on someone, they start relaxing, stop running the Offense, and start hoisting three's. Last year Morehead State took them out in just such a game -
and that was a NET>220 team in the NIT. Imagine if we were playing someone who was actually good.
But hey, jmho....
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4065]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4551
Joined: 3/6/01
|
I agree with a lot of what you write
1
Dec 4, 2023, 11:56 AM
|
|
After a decade of “Fire him/Keep him”, it really bugs me that -even when we are playing pretty well- we can’t escape misery. If we don’t dance, I will be right there with you. But it is a lot more fun to pull for wins than to pull for the coach to be fired.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4610]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3371
Joined: 8/14/01
|
Re: I agree with a lot of what you write
Dec 4, 2023, 12:03 PM
|
|
I'd love for him to win and be successful. I've enjoyed every win we have this year.
We either do well this year or we don't. It's too early to tell. If we get a good running start and then fall on our face like we have in many other years under CBB, well, are we as fans Charlie Brown to Lucy's football?
Maybe THIS is the year she doesn't yank the ball away...
That would be great!
But don't hate me if I'm not holding my breath.
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13580]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8962
Joined: 8/30/18
|
Re: I agree with a lot of what you write
2
Dec 4, 2023, 12:04 PM
[ in reply to I agree with a lot of what you write ] |
|
Most of the misery coming out in these novels is self-inflicted...
|
|
|
|
Replies: 33
| visibility 1,501
|
|
|