Replies: 50
| visibility 1
|
CU Guru [1703]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 2030
Joined: 6/27/13
|
|
|
|
110%er [8015]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7922
Joined: 5/27/08
|
Re: So New England cheated.
Jan 21, 2015, 12:39 AM
|
|
I can't stand Brady or the Patriots, and I still have a hard time believing deflated balls caused a 45-7 loss.
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1052]
TigerPulse: 89%
Posts: 1977
Joined: 7/8/13
|
Proven and repeat cheats
Jan 21, 2015, 12:46 AM
|
|
What can the league do? Take away draft picks for the next 5 years and a big fine for Belichick and Kraft is probably all you can expect.
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [60261]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42577
Joined: 11/30/98
|
calculate the value of a team making the Super Bowl
Jan 21, 2015, 8:13 AM
|
|
and fine them that amount.
That, or make them forfeit.
Only way you can prevent cheating is severe penalties.
But they will never do it, so nothing will happen.
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [22965]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 25005
Joined: 6/24/99
|
Re: So New England cheated.
Jan 21, 2015, 12:46 AM
[ in reply to Re: So New England cheated. ] |
|
didn't both teams use the same footballs?? Difficult to see that any advantage was gained, certainly not a 45-7 advantage
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1052]
TigerPulse: 89%
Posts: 1977
Joined: 7/8/13
|
Re: So New England cheated.
Jan 21, 2015, 12:47 AM
|
|
Teams bring their own balls.
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [22965]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 25005
Joined: 6/24/99
|
Re: So New England cheated.
Jan 21, 2015, 12:50 AM
|
|
gracias....was unaware.....henceforward, I'll the NFL will be FedEx'ing all the balls to be used
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4178]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3996
Joined: 1/22/03
|
This is a stupid, argument. 45-7 means u got your ###
Jan 21, 2015, 10:06 AM
|
|
handed to you nd the footballs had nothing to do with blocking and tackling. How about cover Edelman, Gronk, and other receivers or stop Blount from bulldozing their ### for 150 yards. Losers make excuses, while New England isn't my team, they play the game and beat teams who may have more talent. Brady is frigging amazing and Belichick is a helluva coach. Officials check balls before game and at half time, if OK at start then less air at half, then reinflate and continue. No big deal, I'm sure the guy in the booth that can't get the calls right even after watching 11 different angles has time to check if the balls are hard enough.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2420]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2471
Joined: 3/26/07
|
Re: This is a stupid, argument. 45-7 means u got your ###
Jan 21, 2015, 1:42 PM
|
|
Not really. Did they have more SEC players on the Colts who didn't really want to be there?
|
|
|
|
|
Varsity [231]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 267
Joined: 8/11/08
|
Re: This is a stupid, argument. 45-7 means u got your ###
Jan 21, 2015, 2:07 PM
[ in reply to This is a stupid, argument. 45-7 means u got your ### ] |
|
While i agree...it wasn't the only thing i saw either. It was several instances where NE wasn't even set and got no penalty...and in this video below...what the playclock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8wfw7D8ECM
cheating is cheating IMO whether then needed to do so or not. We all know Football is a game of momentum and if they are catching balls because they are made easier to catch then it contributed to it. Brady could have throw some balls that they would have dropped with a properly inflated ball and it would change the outcome mentally from both sides.
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [9771]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13660
Joined: 12/16/98
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1703]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 2030
Joined: 6/27/13
|
Re: So New England cheated.
Jan 21, 2015, 12:56 AM
[ in reply to Re: So New England cheated. ] |
|
The effect it had on the game is irrelevant. They deflated balls to gain a competitive advantage. Whether or not it caused them to win doesn't matter, its still cheating. And its not new for NE. They are known to cheat and they've been caught again. The league needs to make a statement with this.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4341]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4968
Joined: 8/6/02
|
The officials inspect the balls before the game. This should
Jan 21, 2015, 5:57 AM
|
|
be on them.
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [60261]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42577
Joined: 11/30/98
|
no, all it takes is a ballboy with an inflation needle
Jan 21, 2015, 8:15 AM
|
|
he is trained on how many seconds he needs to insert the needle to let 2 pounds of air out.
Simple as that.
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [75902]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 108932
Joined: 10/26/03
|
If they broke a rule, they broke a rule so
Jan 21, 2015, 2:09 PM
|
|
punishment needs to be handed out of some sort. My problem is, if it was significant enough to actually give an advantage, why didn't an official that touches the ball every play notice?
|
|
|
|
|
Varsity [233]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 165
Joined: 9/5/00
|
Re: So New England cheated.
Jan 21, 2015, 5:43 AM
|
|
Although the investigation is still ongoing, it looks like the officials discovered the balls at half time. The Patriots went on to outscore the Colts 28-0 in the second half.
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16888]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9386
Joined: 11/1/14
|
Re: So New England cheated.
Jan 21, 2015, 6:37 AM
|
|
So, were they different balls that were inspected at halftime. The ball is handled/put in play by members of the officiating crew after every play. Why wouldn't it be noticed earlier?
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3422]
TigerPulse: 91%
Posts: 6697
Joined: 10/3/09
|
Re: So New England cheated.
Jan 21, 2015, 7:10 AM
|
|
That's exactly my thought. I feel like this is pretty much a non-story for the most part, and the reason it's really got legs is because it's the Patriots. Heck, this is a direct quote from Phil Simms during the Patriots-Packers game from a month or so ago:
“‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it,'” Simms said Rodgers told them before the game.
Or how about the story from the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/24/sports/football/eli-mannings-footballs-are-months-in-making.html) where they explain the NY Giants spend months doctoring footballs to Eli's specifications.
People mess with the football to get it the way they want. It's just what they do. The refs probably "checked" the footballs prior to the game to a level of their satisfaction, rather than the letter of the law.
|
|
|
|
|
Varsity [233]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 165
Joined: 9/5/00
|
Re: So New England cheated.
Jan 21, 2015, 8:05 AM
[ in reply to Re: So New England cheated. ] |
|
An article I read said they found the under inflated balls at halftime. If the officials did not remove them, I think it is their fault at that point. Regardless, the Patriots beat the Colts handily in Indy earlier in the year and were the dominant team on Sunday. With that said, if it is finally decided they did this on purpose, they should receive the punishment that the NFL has on the books, or one they decide is appropriate. Sending the Colts to play the Seahawks would be a mauling.
|
|
|
|
|
Varsity [233]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 165
Joined: 9/5/00
|
Re: So New England cheated.
Jan 21, 2015, 8:08 AM
[ in reply to Re: So New England cheated. ] |
|
I also wonder why the officials did not discover this earlier. I work with officials in youth football, and they even look at the balls going on the field.
|
|
|
|
|
Head Coach [790]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 2312
Joined: 9/1/05
|
They should not play in Super Bowl!
Jan 21, 2015, 6:12 AM
|
|
They get caught cheating every few years! Filming practices or reading lips on side lines! Tom Brady and his stupid coach are jokes.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [40970]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42973
Joined: 11/30/98
|
I agree, cancel the game
Jan 21, 2015, 7:08 AM
|
|
and let the millions of people that rely on that game for income suffer. That will make the pats feel guilty!
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [30504]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 47472
Joined: 12/20/99
|
Wish I could cheat to win something... and still get to
Jan 21, 2015, 6:51 AM
|
|
keep it... and be punished in the future
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3422]
TigerPulse: 91%
Posts: 6697
Joined: 10/3/09
|
Re: Wish I could cheat to win something... and still get to
Jan 21, 2015, 7:01 AM
|
|
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but didn't we as Clemson fans already have that happen? We weren't stripped of a national title despite being punished afterwards for recruiting violations.
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [53242]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 23122
Joined: 10/10/11
|
Name the players on that 1981 team who were involved
Jan 21, 2015, 9:55 AM
|
|
in the violations.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3422]
TigerPulse: 91%
Posts: 6697
Joined: 10/3/09
|
Re: Name the players on that 1981 team who were involved
Jan 21, 2015, 10:05 AM
|
|
Wasn't it undisclosed who was involved exactly? Regardless, what does that prove? My point was that the NCAA came down on us immediately after winning a NC. I'm not saying we didn't deserve it...we did. There's no doubt that pretty much every program in the nation back then (and even now) were doing something.
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12897
Joined: 8/10/13
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3422]
TigerPulse: 91%
Posts: 6697
Joined: 10/3/09
|
Re: So New England cheated.
Jan 21, 2015, 7:00 AM
|
|
I'm a Pats fan and admittedly biased...if the ball was doctored, why didn't a ref notice it seeing as they would handle the ball literally every single play. If the ESPN report turns out to be true, it's a bit disappointing, but does anyone really think this is the reason the Pats won that football game?
|
|
|
|
|
Varsity [233]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 165
Joined: 9/5/00
|
Re: So New England cheated.
Jan 21, 2015, 8:13 AM
|
|
I agree. They dominated the Colts and Luck this season and last season. They were clearly the better team. The officials should have noticed the under inflated balls. Even after they noticed at halftime, the Patriots went on to outscore the Colts 28-0 in the second half.
|
|
|
|
|
Commissioner [977]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/23/07
|
Re: So New England cheated.
Jan 21, 2015, 12:52 PM
[ in reply to Re: So New England cheated. ] |
|
The Patriots do the same thing almost every team in every sport does, push the envelope, see what you can get away with. I'm a pats fan too and I don't justify the behavior. Quite frankly I think Belichick is a bad human being. But the reaction to this team doing what everyone else does is unreal. They win because they are better than you. Virtually every qb in the league has admitted to manipulating the balls
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3422]
TigerPulse: 91%
Posts: 6697
Joined: 10/3/09
|
Re: So New England cheated.
Jan 21, 2015, 2:02 PM
|
|
I think it's difficult to say he's a bad human being based on pushing the rules like this. There's no doubt he's shady. I have no problem with that suggestion, but I don't think it's bad enough to talk about what type of human he is.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [40970]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42973
Joined: 11/30/98
|
no big deal, it turns out they didn't need to cheat to win
Jan 21, 2015, 7:05 AM
|
|
anyway
|
|
|
|
|
All-American [590]
TigerPulse: 95%
Posts: 601
Joined: 9/19/06
|
But apparently they did. Question for all the Patriot
Jan 21, 2015, 3:50 PM
|
|
apologist. If we substitute Usuc for Pats would your position be the same?
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3422]
TigerPulse: 91%
Posts: 6697
Joined: 10/3/09
|
Re: But apparently they did. Question for all the Patriot
Jan 21, 2015, 4:36 PM
|
|
Yea, but mainly because I try not to let emotions get in front of things. If it's something I think others are doing, I tend to not get too worked up.
I've never really been a big fan of Auburn (though I don't dislike them) but I wanted to see Cam Newton in the championship game because I feel like the vast majority of programs are doing something illegal.
I'm a Pats fan, so I can't talk about this issue without people claiming bias, but do you really think the Pats are the only team which modifies footballs to get the grip they prefer, or even stealing signals?
I think whoever ordered it (everyone's saying Belichick but I would think Brady would want the ball modified before Belichick would) deserves repercussions but this isn't anything serious.
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [66101]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33370
Joined: 12/3/03
|
This is just another example of systematic cheating that
Jan 21, 2015, 7:18 AM
|
|
is part of the Belichick regime. New England knew that being able to run the ball was even more key than normal to win this game. They also knew that Blount has a history of fumbling. So, under inflate the ball to make it easier for him to hold on to. Fining these guys, or taking draft picks, has not stopped this sort of stuff. I think the only way to really get their attention would be to take away the victory. But, since we know that won't happen, next best thing would be to take away an entire draft. Just have the commissioner tell them, "Guys, you can stay home during this years draft, 'cause you aren't going to participate."
And, the real irony here is that New England would have easily beaten the Colts without illegal help, so why do it in the first place?
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3422]
TigerPulse: 91%
Posts: 6697
Joined: 10/3/09
|
Re: This is just another example of systematic cheating that
Jan 21, 2015, 7:32 AM
|
|
I don't think they'd change the ball based on Blount. It's always going to be what the QB wants. Deflating the ball won't do much in the way of helping a RB grip a football seeing as carrying the ball is based on the 5 points of pressure. The QB needs the hand grip.
Also, I'm not sure why you say Blount is known for his fumble problems. He has 10 career fumbles in 72 career games. It's not a great record but I wouldn't say he's terrible when it comes to ball security.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2034]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2497
Joined: 10/10/02
|
Didn't make much difference,
Jan 21, 2015, 7:38 AM
|
|
they could have won using nerf balls.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3194]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 3543
Joined: 11/21/11
|
I can't stand the patriots, its the team i dislike the most in the NFL but
Jan 21, 2015, 7:39 AM
|
|
I just don't see how this explains the colts loosing 45-7. Sure, the patriots had a upperhand but deflated balls didn't stop the patriots defense from dominating the colts offense. Like i said, i can't stand the patriots and i do think they should serve some kind of punishment for this but i think it's irrelevant to how the patriots dominated the Colts
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1550]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3022
Joined: 6/21/05
|
doesn't make sense... an official places the ball before
Jan 21, 2015, 8:20 AM
|
|
each snap... wouldn't he have noticed something peculiar?
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1703]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 2030
Joined: 6/27/13
|
Re: doesn't make sense... an official places the ball before
Jan 21, 2015, 3:03 PM
|
|
It comes down to this. Let me hand you a football to squeeze and you tell me if its 13 psi or 11 psi. You don't get to compare the two, just have to do it. Its not that easy especially when you're not looking for it because you expect the balls to be legal.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4640]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 9549
Joined: 11/4/01
|
They probably inflated w/ warm air just prior to inspection.
Jan 21, 2015, 8:29 AM
|
|
Then as they air cooled, the air becomes less dense and makes the balls softer.
I really doubt they let air out.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3422]
TigerPulse: 91%
Posts: 6697
Joined: 10/3/09
|
Re: They probably inflated w/ warm air just prior to inspection.
Jan 21, 2015, 8:33 AM
|
|
Wow, great thinking!
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [60261]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42577
Joined: 11/30/98
|
the refs inflate all the balls the exact same way pre-game
Jan 21, 2015, 8:37 AM
[ in reply to They probably inflated w/ warm air just prior to inspection. ] |
|
the doctoring was done during the game.
The teams provide the refs with uninflated team balls before the game. One of the referees inflates each ball, marks them, and certifies them as fit for play. Same air, same temperature, controlled environment. 12 for each team, plus kicking balls, which are different also (those surely wouldn't be deflated intentionally).
they are then put in a locker on the sideline until the teams "ballboys" get them. I know you know who those are - the ballboys roam the sidelines with spare balls throwing them into the game whenever necessary.
Some Patriots team member - not a player, someone on the sidelines - deflated 11 of the 12 balls during the course of the game. It was detected when a Colts player made an interception and noticed the ball was not right. The Colts balls were tested and all of them were OK.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3422]
TigerPulse: 91%
Posts: 6697
Joined: 10/3/09
|
Re: the refs inflate all the balls the exact same way pre-game
Jan 21, 2015, 8:47 AM
|
|
I'm pretty sure the equipment managers fill the footballs and then refs check the footballs prior to the game. That's why Aaron Rogers said he overinflates footballs in hopes that the referees won't take any air out.
Also, I've seen nothing suggesting that the Colts had any of their equipment checked at the same time as the Patriots. Where did you get your information?
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4640]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 9549
Joined: 11/4/01
|
Thats what I had read this week and responded accordingly.***
Jan 21, 2015, 12:31 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Commissioner [907]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1470
Joined: 10/19/13
|
Re: So New England cheated.
Jan 21, 2015, 8:50 AM
|
|
Mike and mike have #shrinkage trending number 1 on tweeter. Haha
|
|
|
|
|
MVP [503]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 699
Joined: 10/27/03
|
Re: So New England cheated.
Jan 21, 2015, 11:38 AM
|
|
The final score definitely showed it didn't matter but NE was much more of a running team while Indianaplois relied more on throwing. You can argue that as a reason to gain an advantage. But the refs do inspect the balls prior, so either they aided in it or it was done during the game. Sure a red places the ball but tell me one person who can accurately hold a ball and automatically determine if it is under inflated just enough to cause a difference when thrown.
Also, in post season play, I believe the home team provides all balls except for the visiting kickers.
Regardless, it's the principle of the matter, not whether or not it have an unfair advantage to NE or not.
|
|
|
|
|
Aficionado [151]
TigerPulse: 40%
Posts: 615
Joined: 3/7/11
|
Re: So New England cheated.
Jan 21, 2015, 12:51 PM
|
|
The balls being tampered with had no effect on the outcome of the game but they still cheated and should be punished . Send them home and let the colts play in the Superbowl
|
|
|
|
|
Head Coach [790]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 2312
Joined: 9/1/05
|
Just give the championship to Seattle !
Jan 21, 2015, 1:27 PM
|
|
NM
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4026]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5029
Joined: 8/9/12
|
Re: So New England cheated.
Jan 21, 2015, 3:28 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1950]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 2548
Joined: 9/12/04
|
Not a fan of NASCAR, but I don't see this being that much
Jan 21, 2015, 4:32 PM
|
|
different than teams racing with illegal parts in that sport. They're playing the game of football with "illegal parts" when they tampered with the equipment.
If the NFL goes the NASCAR route, Belichick will be suspended for the Super Bowl and some number of games next season, and the team will be fined. In NASCAR teams will typically lose all of the points they earned from the race where illegal parts were used. Obviously, I don't think the NFL will take away the playoff victory, so some other sort of punishment will have to come down...probably in the form of draft picks or a salary cap punishment.
|
|
|
|
Replies: 50
| visibility 1
|
|
|