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Associate AD [810]
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Question regarding the "dominos falling" if Big XII expands
May 13, 2012, 6:04 PM
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We've seen the last two years that when a major conference expands, it does not do so in a fish bowl. It affects other schools in other conferences, particularly schools within the conference from which a school is leaving. Once rumors begin that a school is making a move, all the schools being affected begin to posture for their best position so they are not left in a worse situation when the dust settles. Lots of things begin to happen.
So let's say FSU gets an invite to the Big XII and it looks like they will leave. What will GT, VT, NC State and Miami be thinking? All of these schools, along with Clemson, would be candidates for leaving and joining the Big XII. Do these other schools start to show interest? If so, where does Clemson rank on the Big XII's want list? From a TV market perspective, GT, NC State, Miami and VT all offer bigger markets (VT has the DC market btw).
Here's the other scary thing:
Slive and the SEC will go to 16 schools if it makes sense. We know the SEC won't expand into markets where there is already a presence, but if it looks like the ACC may be crumbling and the North Carolina and Virginia markets may be available then I think Slive may extend offers to schools such as NC State and VT.
So back to my original question, where does Clemson rank on the Big XII's want list?
I see FSU and GT being the top two choices for the Big XII; it is hard to argue against the TV markets these schools offer the Big XII vs. the SC market Clemson could bring. Again, once things start happening everyone gets nervous and begins making phone calls. If NC State and VT "toss their hair" so to speak at the SEC, does the SEC make an offer to these schools and would/could they turn down the SEC?
There you have it, the nightmare scenario. FSU, GT, NC State and VT all gone to other conferences. The only hope then would be that the Big XII decides to expand by 2 more schools. Clemson and Miami maybe?
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Associate AD [810]
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BTW, after reading the post above...
May 13, 2012, 6:27 PM
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if you don't think the ACC could see something like this happen, just remember that Swofford is in charge.
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CU Medallion [57698]
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we'd be like Boise State winning conf title after title....
May 13, 2012, 7:17 PM
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and rarely, if ever, getting a shot at the National Championship. Not that we've been getting lots of shots as things are now anyway.
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110%er [6108]
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Boise would have their shot, if they WON ALL THEIR GAMES***
May 13, 2012, 11:16 PM
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110%er [6108]
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And played somebody
May 13, 2012, 11:20 PM
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forgot to add that. At least we play SCAR every year - that should help our strength of schedule.
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Enthusiast [147]
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Re: Question regarding the "dominos falling" if Big XII expands
May 13, 2012, 6:54 PM
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I'm tired of hearing the "TV market" crap. Clemson football has an excellent following.
One of the most recognized helmets in all of college football, one of the best venues in college football (noted by many publications), great fan base, and the most exciting entry in all of sports! (Yes I Said It, ALL OF SPORTS!!!).
The truth is Clemson is a BIG ASSET to any conference! #### sure more valuable than GT or NC State (no offense to either school). Hell Clemson is as big as GT in Altanta, and bigger than NC State in Charlotte! So stop insulting Clemson by suggesting that NC State and GT are somehow more valuable.
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Associate AD [810]
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CJ - We may choose not to care about TV markets
May 13, 2012, 7:05 PM
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but the conferences and the networks care a great deal about TV markets.
Do you think the majority of the people in North Carolina would choose to watch an NC State game or a Clemson game? Do you think the majority of people in Atlanta would choose to watch a GT game or a Clemson game?
The answer to those questions goes a long way in a conference's decision about what schools to invite.
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Enthusiast [147]
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Re: CJ - We may choose not to care about TV markets
May 13, 2012, 8:21 PM
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Well if Clemson is such a #### poor draw then why not have NC State on TV more often?
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Enthusiast [147]
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All-TigerNet [12550]
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yes, and should the SEC or Big12 decide to start their own
May 13, 2012, 9:47 PM
[ in reply to CJ - We may choose not to care about TV markets ] |
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network, the cable fees are based by states you have a team in. So NC State would bring them a fee for every cable house in the state of North Carolina where Clemson would bring nothing due to South Carolina already being in the league.
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Enthusiast [147]
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Re: yes, and should the SEC or Big12 decide to start their own
May 13, 2012, 10:02 PM
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South Carolina is in the SEC and Big 12?
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All-TigerNet [12550]
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No, but their membership in the SEC makes us useless to
May 13, 2012, 10:16 PM
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the SEC. As far as Big Twelve, if we have to compete with GT, NC State etc. that is a problem. And answering his thought, that is why a school like NC State may be more profitable than us.
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Enthusiast [147]
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Re: No, but their membership in the SEC makes us useless to
May 13, 2012, 11:08 PM
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When in the HE!! did NC State become revelant. You really think NC State helps the Big 12 establish a Southeastens footprint more than Clemson. I guess Wake would be a better choice than Clemson too.
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All-TigerNet [12550]
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Someone mentioned NC State earlier in this thread, so I
May 14, 2012, 10:54 AM
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addressed them. NC State is irrelevent regarding Big12, but if it ever came to them wanting in the SEC they are very much a school the SEC would want. They would prefer UNC, but would take NC State. The SEC would love to get a school out of the state of NC and the state of VA. That would completely cover their footprint over the Southeast and add two big states.
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Orange Blooded [2400]
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Re: Someone mentioned NC State earlier in this thread, so I
May 14, 2012, 11:34 AM
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I didn't catch the post about cable fees – very interesting. That model seems to assume that, unlike I said above, viewership switches as soon as you cross state lines. That really seems like a "coarse" evaluation of the market and I am surprised thy do it that way.
For instance, I have to think that Bama brings in MS and GA viewers and UGa brings in FL and AL viewers etc. Of course, since all of those contiguous states have teams in the SEC, that model may be a reasonable approximation. But assuming one state does not have a team in the conference (NC), one could make the argument that an alternative model would be more accurate, ie a college in a neighboring state pulling in a % of households rather than a binary all or none model. To me, the question is (1) is that really how they make that evaluation and (2) how married to that are they – would they adopt another model?
One thing I know: it is WAY more complicated than I am making it out to be. Mine is pure speculation by someone who knows absolutely nothing about these contracts and conference affiliation. I am just trying to sort out the logic that may be used by some of players in the game.
Of course, if they were really logical, knowledgeable and based in reality, they would understand the greatness of Clemson, and beg us to join. I weep for those ignorant masses!
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All-American [554]
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Re: No, but their membership in the SEC makes us useless to
May 14, 2012, 1:21 PM
[ in reply to Re: No, but their membership in the SEC makes us useless to ] |
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Doesn't matter if you are hugely relevant. All that matters is whether or not you have enough fans that cable companies in the state will add you to cable packages. If NCSU joined the SEC and the SEC started a cable network, cable providers in NC would add the channel to cable packages. Then even people who do not care to watch NCSU will be paying for the channel in their cable packages. Thats why its about "footprints" not "markets." Clemson could provide the same to the Big 12 but not to the SEC. And if the Big 12 had to choose whther to add a team in NC, GA, or SC I am not sure which state they would want. Probably the one with the most cable subscribers regardless of which team is more relevant.
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Orange Blooded [2400]
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Re: No, but their membership in the SEC makes us useless to
May 14, 2012, 3:11 PM
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Agree.
My point is that Clemson's footprint extends beyond the NC/SC border and is significant in the largest metropolitan area in the Carolinas. Clemson could deliver Charlotte, some of the Triad area, much of the Hickory-Morganton-Lenoir area (I think those are three of the four largest MSAs in NC) and much of everything west of Morganton. That ain’t a bad take in NC.
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110%er [5508]
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The majority of people in NC and ATL won't watch a college..
May 14, 2012, 12:34 PM
[ in reply to CJ - We may choose not to care about TV markets ] |
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...football game.
TV markets are meaningless. Fan followings matter. Just because we have BC and Cuse in our conference doesn't help us a bit when no one watches those games in NY or Boston, even if they're in "big markets."
The SEC doesn't have team in big markets, but they have nationally televised games that rate the highest in the country because they have loyal followers and brand names.
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Athletic Dir [861]
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News for you
May 13, 2012, 10:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: Question regarding the "dominos falling" if Big XII expands ] |
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I've lived in New York, Buffalo, NJ, Maryland, and the SF Bay area. NONE of them can find Clemson with a map. I love the tigers but you homers dont know what you are talking about. The only reputation Clemson has, and I've heard this for a very long time, is a consistent choke. ALWAYS bet against Clemson. They rarely let you down in the big games. You can count on Clemson to totally give up when smacked in the mouth. You know it's true. I hate it, I've stormed out of sports bars from Hoboken, to DC, to San Francisco. But that's the story of my love for this team when you aren't surrounded by homers. It ain't easy to be a Clemson fan far from SC.
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Enthusiast [147]
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Re: News for you
May 13, 2012, 10:04 PM
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Here is an idea, stop being one you cry-baby #####!!!
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Orange Blooded [2400]
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Re: News for you
May 14, 2012, 8:55 AM
[ in reply to News for you ] |
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It makes sense that the SEC would want the NC market; I think that is a given. So let's look at three teams and how they might deliver:
UNC - they blanket the state. They would by far deliver the most NC TVs in football and basketball. I suspect the ACC is best for them in hoops and SEC is best for them in football. Given their proclivity towards hoops and what seems to be their self-anointment as the king of the ACC, I don't see them leaving.
NCSU - they would deliver from all around the state, but not as much as UNC, except perhaps, the eastern side. However, they would definitely be one of the "smaller dogs" in the conference.
Clemson - we would deliver a lot of the Charlotte market and western NC. After all, do you think the average fan in Charlotte would rather watch Clem vs. Ga in football or UNC vs. Wake? Clemson would also deliver more national TVs than either NCSU or UNC in football. Clemson also brings what the SECers would consider an SEC caliber football program and would immediately figure in the conversation regarding a divisional race. Neither NCSU nor UNC would do that. Additionally, if the SEC wants to clean up their image, they may stay away from tarnished programs like the Heels (ha ha ha ha!).
I don't know the marketing numbers for TVs in NC, but I do know that they don't automatically switch to UNC or NCSU when you cross the border. I also do not know for a fact that SC would stand in the way of a move. That is popular internet conventional wisdom, but let’s faces it; "internet conventional wisdom" is an oxymoron.
Conclusion: I don't think it is a slam dunk that the SEC would not want us. Clemson will deliver a nice chunk of NC TVs, a “move-in ready” football program and some national interest.
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CU Guru [1201]
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Re: Question regarding the "dominos falling" if Big XII expands
May 13, 2012, 9:17 PM
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I think Clemson would be ahead of GT. The "Atlanta market" isn't that great to have when very few fans in the area are GT fans. They can't even fill up their tiny stadium in the middle of Atlanta. Clemson has a huge following compared to GT.
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Savant [460]
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Are you trying to compare the Atlanta market with ours?
May 13, 2012, 11:18 PM
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come on guy. We arent talking about who goes to the games we are talking about the number of people who watch them. Do you really think all them sets in the Atlanta market would tune in to see us or Tech?
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Orange Blooded [4983]
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Re: Re: No, but their membership in the SEC makes us useless to
May 13, 2012, 11:15 PM
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NC St cannot leave without UNC. They are run by the same bosses. They are both technically part of the same university. There is zero chance NC St. leaves the ACC as long ss UNC-CH is there.
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Scout Team [158]
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Re: Question regarding the "dominos falling" if Big XII expands
May 14, 2012, 3:18 PM
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I don't know that GT brings a lot better TV market than Clemson.. Sure they are in Atl but GT does not have the same number of passionate fans that Clemson does imo. Unless of course you mean the UGA fans tuning in too root against GT haha
I think Clemson brings a better fan base and better brand of football. I believe Clemson's style of football is a better fit too.
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