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Oculus Spirit [94454]
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More anecdotes:
Apr 8, 2020, 10:26 AM
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Daniel J Wallace MD just another Trump lackey...
"Daniel J Wallace MD, FACP, MACR is a board-certified internist and rheumatologist. A Clinical Professor of Medicine at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA, he is the Associate Director of the Rheumatology Fellowship Program at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center where he also serves on the Board of Governors.
Dr. Wallace has authored nearly 450 peer reviewed manuscripts, 30 book chapters, eight textbooks (on lupus, osteoarthritis, Sjogren’s syndrome and fibromyalgia) and his practice includes caring for 2,000 lupus patients, the largest lupus cohort in the United States..."
https://attunehealth.com/our-staff/dr-wallace/
Daniel J Wallace's letter to the FDA:
"Hydroxycholorquine (HCQ, Paquenil) is a very safe drug. It has been given to tens of millions of individuals around the world since its approval in 1955 (65 years) and as monotherapy has not been associated with any deaths in the recommended dose. In 42 years of practice, no patient of mine has ever been hospitalized for a HCQ complication."
Most of his patients are taking HCQ regularly, long term. Complications are trivial such as rashes and upset stomachs. Heart complications occur 0% over 5 years and blindness 1.0% over ten years of taking HCQ. To date he has no patients with Covid 19.
Anecdotal? Safe?
"Hydroxychloroquine usage in US patients, their experiences of tolerability and adherence, and implications for treatment: survey results from 3127 patients with SLE conducted by the Lupus Foundation of America"
https://lupus.bmj.com/content/6/1/e000317
THE END
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Legend [15764]
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He’s clearly a reckless fool and anyone who prescribed a drug
Apr 8, 2020, 10:30 AM
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with a 65 year track record of safe usage and MOUNTAINS of data on dosage and drug interactions for someone dying of COVID-19 based on the small pile of anecdotal evidence is basically a Trump Fanboy Which Doctor.
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Legend [15764]
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Grrrr. “Witch Doctor”***
Apr 8, 2020, 10:31 AM
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Oculus Spirit [94454]
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You've heard of throwing the baby out with the bathwater?
Apr 8, 2020, 10:39 AM
[ in reply to He’s clearly a reckless fool and anyone who prescribed a drug ] |
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We have a faction of people here on this board and all across this nation who will continue to claim that HCQ is a deadly drug even when prescribed by doctors.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: You've heard of throwing the baby out with the bathwater?
Apr 8, 2020, 11:17 AM
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###? Who is saying it's a deadly drug? Seriously, where do you get your information?
The only "push back" against HCQ is that it hasn't been proven effective at treating/preventing covid-19. That's it. Once tested, we will know for sure.
What the hell is so hard about that?
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CU Medallion [56472]
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If it's been approved by the FDA and it hasn't been
Apr 8, 2020, 10:38 AM
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black boxed or anything, it should be relatively safe. All the safety information will be in the package insert.
ADVERSE REACTIONS
The following adverse reactions have been identified during post-approval use of PLAQUENIL or other 4-aminoqunoline compounds. Because these reactions are reported voluntarily from a population of uncertain size, it is not always possible to reliably estimate their frequency or establish a causal relationship to drug exposure. Blood and lymphatic system disorders: Bone marrow failure, anemia, aplastic anemia, agranulocytosis, leukopenia, and thrombocytopenia. Hemolysis reported in individuals with glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase (G-6-PD) deficiency. Cardiac disorders: Cardiomyopathy which may result in cardiac failure and in some cases a fatal outcome (see WARNINGS and OVERDOSAGE). PLAQUENIL prolongs the QT interval. Ventricular arrhythmias and torsade de pointes have been reported in patients taking PLAQUENIL (see OVERDOSAGE and DRUG INTERACTIONS). Ear and labyrinth disorders: Vertigo, tinnitus, nystagmus, nerve deafness, deafness. Eye disorders: Irreversible retinopathy with retinal pigmentation changes (bull’s eye appearance), visual field defects (paracentral scotomas) and visual disturbances (visual acuity), maculopathies (macular degeneration), decreased dark adaptation, color vision abnormalities, Reference ID: 4047416 corneal changes (edema and opacities) including corneal deposition of drug with or without accompanying symptoms (halo around lights, photophobia, blurred vision). Gastrointestinal disorders: Nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and abdominal pain. General disorders and administration site conditions: Fatigue. Hepatobiliary disorders: Liver function tests abnormal, hepatic failure acute. Immune system disorders: Urticaria, angioedema, bronchospasm Metabolism and nutrition disorders: Decreased appetite, hypoglycemia, porphyria, weight decreased. Musculoskeletal and connective tissue disorders: Sensorimotor disorder, skeletal muscle myopathy or neuromyopathy leading to progressive weakness and atrophy of proximal muscle groups, depression of tendon reflexes and abnormal nerve conduction. Nervous system disorders: Headache, dizziness, seizure, ataxia and extrapyramidal disorders such as dystonia, dyskinesia, and tremor have been reported with this class of drugs. Psychiatric disorders: Affect/emotional lability, nervousness, irritability, nightmares, psychosis, suicidal behavior. Skin and subcutaneous tissue disorders: Rash, pruritus, pigmentation disorders in skin and mucous membranes, hair color changes, alopecia. Dermatitis bullous eruptions including erythema multiforme, Stevens-Johnson syndrome, and toxic epidermal necrolysis, drug reaction with eosinophilia and systemic symptoms (DRESS syndrome), photosensitivity, dermatitis exfoliative, acute generalized exanthematous pustulosis (AGEP). AGEP has to be distinguished from psoriasis, although PLAQUENIL may precipitate attacks of psoriasis. It may be associated with pyrexia and hyperleukocytosis.
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2017/009768s037s045s047lbl.pdf
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Oculus Spirit [94454]
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Yes, those symptoms show up after years of dosing.
Apr 8, 2020, 10:43 AM
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That was reported in the study. HCQ is effectively treating Cov 19 in 10-30 day doses.
Of course lawyers...
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CU Medallion [56472]
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Safety and efficacy are two different things.
Apr 8, 2020, 10:57 AM
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What do lawyers have to do with anything?
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Oculus Spirit [94454]
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Lawsuits are the reason those list of side effects listed...
Apr 8, 2020, 11:08 AM
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are so extensive. Anyone who isn't a fool and takes medicine regularly reads the side effects listed on the publication attached to a prescription. You even sign the form when you pick up prescriptions at your pharmacy which says they offered you counsel with a registered licenced pharmacist. It's about liability as much as care for patients. All my medications scare the bejebus our of people when they read the side effects.
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All-In [49302]
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Weird though...
Apr 8, 2020, 11:11 AM
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usually to have a successful lawsuit, you have to show that they either didn't warn of a side effect or that they significantly underreported the side effect based on their own studies.
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Oculus Spirit [94454]
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So true.
Apr 8, 2020, 11:28 AM
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I much appreciate that. We really don't have an argument here. You read the report and know that while the side effects are great in variety the severity is much less and much, much less than the risk of death from COV 19.
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CU Medallion [56472]
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Hall of Famer [23313]
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Oculus Spirit [94454]
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Because that's not what the study reports.
Apr 9, 2020, 9:21 AM
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It reports that 37% of the participating doctors preferred HCQ for treatment.
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All-In [34373]
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So... most don't.***
Apr 9, 2020, 11:20 AM
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Oculus Spirit [94454]
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A reasonable person, one who doesn't seek...
Apr 9, 2020, 11:47 AM
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to be deceptive about the stats would say that HCQ is the favorite treatment for Covid 19 in a study of 6200+ doctors with 2300 of them preferring it to other options.
What's objectivity got to do with it?
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Scout Team [170]
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Sounds promising, I hope it gets properly tested, approved,
Apr 8, 2020, 10:46 AM
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and helps out a lot of people.
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Oculus Spirit [94454]
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I suspect most resistance to observed data is due...
Apr 8, 2020, 10:51 AM
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Trump said it first.
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Scout Team [170]
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good lord...***
Apr 8, 2020, 11:18 AM
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Oculus Spirit [94454]
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I know you're a Trump fan.
Apr 8, 2020, 11:21 AM
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I know you watch his every move and defend him constantly. I also know that you would approve the medicine for your daughter if she needed it.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: I know you're a Trump fan.
Apr 8, 2020, 11:29 AM
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> I also know that you would approve the medicine for your daughter if she needed it.
If my doctor said he thinks it's the best remaining option, of course, I would. I've already said so.
I'm not "against" HCQ in any way shape or form, I simply think that we need to verify it's effectiveness before promoting it as a treatment. This is no different from how I think any other therapy should work.
So, ### is your problem?
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Oculus Spirit [79073]
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Scout Team [170]
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Is america this dumb?
Apr 8, 2020, 11:20 AM
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That's what the testing/verification process would do... what am I missing here?
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Oculus Spirit [79073]
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not sure what you are missing
Apr 8, 2020, 11:24 AM
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people that are dying to not have time for testing
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: not sure what you are missing
Apr 8, 2020, 11:31 AM
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ok but that's the case for any disease and we don't just start mass-producing unverified therapies now do we?
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All-In [49302]
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However, off label use of a safe drug is done all the time
Apr 8, 2020, 11:30 AM
[ in reply to Is america this dumb? ] |
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when it appears to be effective in an off label capacity. It's not crazy or dumb.
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Scout Team [170]
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And i'm not saying that at all, i've clarified that in other
Apr 8, 2020, 11:37 AM
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responses. Obviously I don't expect you to have read all of my messages. just saying.
I'm not sure how much clearer I can be:
- If your doctor prescribes HCQ go for it, I have ZERO issues with that - I am not against trying HCQ at all - I don't think it's dangerous as far as I can tell - I am simply saying, let's verify this thing works before promoting it as effective.
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Lot o points [157238]
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Do you personally have the FDC contract for drug testing
Apr 8, 2020, 11:31 AM
[ in reply to Is america this dumb? ] |
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or something? That's the only way you could be as emotionally invested in this topic as you are.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: Do you personally have the FDC contract for drug testing
Apr 8, 2020, 11:34 AM
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I honestly give up lol, I don't think there is anything illogical about saying we should verify that a treatment works before promoting it as such.
I don't see how it's practical to start mass-producing an unproven therapy in lieu of creating more masks, ventilators, etc... you know things we KNOW help prevent and/or treat the disease.
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Oculus Spirit [94454]
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Let me jack this part of the thread and say...
Apr 8, 2020, 11:42 AM
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I am obviously pushing the use of the drug but it's not about defending Trump or politics. If, as some evidence suggest, HCQ is an effective prophylactic it can put America back to work and save lives in the meanwhile.
My passion is for Americans not some ######## in DC or a political party's advantage. I just want this virus crushed and believe this may be our best hope for postponing epic economic depression until we find a vaccine.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: Let me jack this part of the thread and say...
Apr 8, 2020, 11:53 AM
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gotcha, I think we are on mostly the same page then
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