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YOUR BALANCE
JK, here is your chance! $10mil given to budget if guaranteed Tment seed
Tiger Boards - Clemson Basketball
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JK, here is your chance! $10mil given to budget if guaranteed Tment seed

2

Feb 4, 2024, 7:30 PM
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JK, I will give you props in that you know more about this team than I do. But you almost always point at funding as main reason we don't achieve expected goals. If you were the Operations Director and give $10mil added to your budget, what moves would you make to immediately make us a Tment team??

Here is your chance to explain the additional funding because I hear you say more money but I never hear where it needs to be spent? Give me some insight so maybe myself and others can follow the logic.

Last I looked, probably last year, CBB was in the top 30 paid coaches like 28th. He is in the middle of the ACC that used to be elite but not what they were.

I'm not calling you out like others trying to stir the pot, I seriously want to know what more money could achieve? I don't see where more money helps this staff honestly.

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Re: JK, here is your chance! $10mil given to budget if guaranteed Tment seed


Feb 4, 2024, 7:35 PM
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I dont know how to tag JK so anyone interested in a response please tag him for me.

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Re: JK, here is your chance! $10mil given to budget if guaranteed Tment seed

1

Feb 4, 2024, 8:53 PM
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This staff? No amount of dollars would help. Those dollars need to be spent on a competent coaching staff. We also need to invest in the basketball equivalent of Dabo land football complex for basketball.

BrownL has peaked. He is what he is and no amount of talent will change that. See fab 5 mis coaches into final four failure. We need to hire the next Hurley.

Only an elite coach can take us to elite status. Gonzaga gets it. Spend it and final fours will come. Many smaller schools have shown with the right coach with the right spending perennial final fours are possible.

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Re: JK, here is your chance! $10mil given to budget if guaranteed Tment seed


Feb 4, 2024, 9:59 PM
Reply

I concur, this staff has hit their pinnacle but if I am misding something monetarily that could change our projection then I honestly want to hear it. If it makes sense then maybe fans could get on board?? But I need to hear what the suggestions are?

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Re: JK, here is your chance! $10mil given to budget if guaranteed Tment seed

1

Feb 4, 2024, 10:08 PM
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Look no further than football for your answer. We have just spent a million bucks each for an OL and DE coach. Two million last year for an OC. Did you know the name of any of our basketball assistants before they were hired? Also announced new basketball player facilities but have not seen where they have been started. I would also believe a new coach, if elite, will want a guaranteed amount of NIL $ per season as NIL is the life blood for moving up as a program

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Re: JK, here is your chance! $10mil given to budget if guaranteed Tment seed

1

Feb 4, 2024, 10:18 PM
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Again, what does football have to do with the proposed question. Football has paid for those asst coaches. And yes, I knew D!ck Bender and Donolon before they were hired just like Grant. Again, no consequence to the proposed question.

Are you saying we need some $million assts to make us a Tment team? What are you suggesting?

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Re: JK, here is your chance! $10mil given to budget if guaranteed Tment seed

1

Feb 5, 2024, 8:08 AM
Reply


Again, what does football have to do with the proposed question. Football has paid for those asst coaches. And yes, I knew D!ck Bender and Donolon before they were hired just like Grant. Again, no consequence to the proposed question.

Are you saying we need some $million assts to make us a Tment team? What are you suggesting?




Football and basketball work the same way. You have to invest in the program. If you want an elite team, elite coaches cost money. While basketball coaches dont demand as much money as football, the principle is the same.

In summary for those who cant seem to understand. Clemson has struggled in basketball for most of 100 years. If you want to change the tide, then invest in the program. Maybe that is a new head coach or top shelf assistants or facilities or a focused NIL.

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Weve been paying a top 40 salary though.

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Feb 5, 2024, 9:38 AM
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There’s nothing to show for it.

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Brad does not currently make a top 40 salary.

1

Feb 5, 2024, 12:20 PM
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And again, for the hundredth time, it's not about Brad's salary. No one is asking for him to get a raise.

It's about assistant coaches and support staff.

It's also about continuing to make important facility upgrades and additions. It's about marketing our basketball program at Clemson the right way. All of these things matter.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Stop Lying

4

Feb 5, 2024, 12:27 PM
Reply

Brad's salary is the only piece of concrete piece of financial information you ever post.

Adjusted for head coach salary Purdue has a smaller operating budget than Clemson.

Adjusted for head coach salary Kansas has the same operating budget as Clemson.

You are a liar.

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Re: Stop Lying

3

Feb 5, 2024, 12:55 PM
Reply

He doesn’t post about Brad’s salary nearly as much as he does about Dabo’s salary.

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Re: JK, here is your chance! $10mil given to budget if guaranteed Tment seed

2

Feb 4, 2024, 10:14 PM [ in reply to Re: JK, here is your chance! $10mil given to budget if guaranteed Tment seed ]
Reply

Are you under the impression basketball assistants command the same salaries as football?

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Re: JK, here is your chance! $10mil given to budget if guaranteed Tment seed


Feb 4, 2024, 9:11 PM
Reply

He doesn’t know anymore about this team than you and I.

I calculated that it would’ve taken another $10,234 to beat Moorehead State and only another $227.46 to beat Oakland in 2017.

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How much more do we need to spend on Clemson football

3

Feb 5, 2024, 1:02 PM
Reply

to finish in the top 10 again?

I'm guessing at least another $5 million.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: JK, here is your chance! $10mil given to budget if guaranteed Tment seed


Feb 4, 2024, 9:24 PM
Reply

He won’t answer because he can’t.

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Re: JK, here is your chance! $10mil given to budget if guaranteed Tment seed


Feb 4, 2024, 9:31 PM
Reply

Crickets

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Re: JK, here is your chance! $10mil given to budget if guaranteed Tment seed


Feb 4, 2024, 10:01 PM [ in reply to Re: JK, here is your chance! $10mil given to budget if guaranteed Tment seed ]
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I think its a fair question.

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I did answer, because I can.***

1

Feb 5, 2024, 12:18 PM [ in reply to Re: JK, here is your chance! $10mil given to budget if guaranteed Tment seed ]
Reply



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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Your answer is based on fallacies and lies***


Feb 5, 2024, 12:28 PM
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I always start with the premise that you spend money on whats important to you.

1

Feb 4, 2024, 10:46 PM
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Historically, we spend less on men’s basketball than most other ACC schools. That holds true when comparing to non-ACC schools in the Southeast (e.g., SEC).

I think it’s safe to say that we spend less on it primarily because we don’t care enough to spend more. I know we could spend more if we wanted to, because men’s basketball makes a profit. Our athletic department has a surplus of funds every year. Yes, basketball helps support sports that don’t make a profit, but there is still money leftover to spend on basketball if we choose to. Many years, we don’t.

So we know that other schools spend more than we do, even “football schools” like us. Many spend millions more per year on men’s basketball than we do. Ask yourself, what are they spending that extra money on? They probably aren’t wasting it.

Assistant coaches and support staff, for one. This is a super important area because these are the guys doing a ton of prep for games. They obtain and review film. They do individual player workouts. They organize recruiting efforts. They are the lifeblood of a program. We historically go cheap here. In fact, we typically pay our basketball assistants around the division I average. NOT the high major average. Not the ACC average. The division I average, as in the average that the roughly 350 schools pay their assistants.

This alone should be infuriating to anyone who cares about men’s basketball. If it isn’t, then you don’t really care about being a consistent top 25 program.

Another big area is facilities. Yes, we have new facilities, which were much needed. But they were long overdue. They are nice, but they aren’t wow factor, “I’ve never seen anything like this” nice. They are not close to the best in the ACC, but they aren’t near the bottom like we used to have. That’s progress, but regular updates are needed. New technology needs to be implemented quickly.

Another huge push needs to be on the marketing side. We suffer mightily from the perception that we are a football school that doesn’t care about basketball. While our social media presence has improved a lot over the last couple of years, I would like to see significant funds devoted to marketing our basketball program. Recruits and high school coaches need to know that we aren’t just a football school, but also a basketball school. Yes, winning helps this perception, but so does the way Clemson talks about basketball and promotes it. We have a long way to go here.

I don’t think Brad should be paid more, he’s paid fairly this point. He’s not in the top 25 though. He is #43 based on this data from March 2023:

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach

I’m not sure where your confusion lies with my prior posts about needing to spend more on basketball. I’ve consistently outlined areas for improvement. I hope this post helps.

What I need explained to me is how anyone thinks we spend enough when it’s clear that we spend less than most programs in the ACC, millions a year in some cases. Why should that be acceptable if we truly want to be a consistent winner in basketball? Expecting Brad or anyone else to overcome these current challenges without significant changes in how we view and support basketball, is insane. That approach hasn’t worked in 100+ years. Why should it work now?!?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: I always start with the premise that you spend money on whats important to you.


Feb 4, 2024, 11:15 PM
Reply

I dont expect us to spend like Duke, Texas, Kentucky or Kansas. Duke spent $25mil in 2022, Kansas was $15.5mil, Texas was right there along with Kentucky but UNC was down. Clemson spent almost $9mil, ($8.89?), which is up there with schools that make the NCAAT almost every year. If you average our investments since 2016, we are one of the top 5% in D1 since then. I looked at Bama and LSU and they are $10-11mil annual budget and they are getting it done recently. Oh, sidenote, UGA was way up last year almost $15mil shockingly but that was giant increase.

That said, we pay very similar to schools that make the tournament every year or every other year yet we don't get same results yet some of these teams are playing in gymnasiums. The campus life has to stink at some of these schools stuck in 10blks in Chicago, or wherever.

I think boosters would happily invest a few more million into basketball if we got results. I don't see how CBB can be defended any longer at this point. I don't and will not say bad things about CBB but its time for a change no matter how this season ends. Please stop the rollercoaster of hope and get new blood in. Yes, maybe takes 2 more hires but we have capped out with CBB.

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We clearly played on an NCAA Tournament level last year.

1

Feb 5, 2024, 12:10 PM
Reply

I think we can all agree on that, right?

This year, we are currently on pace to make the NCAA Tournament. We need to start winning games, as our recent performance is not acceptable.

I mention last year and this year because the perception here on TNet seems to be that we stink and that our coach is awful. While there is always room for improvement, why can't some of you acknowledge that we had a good year last year and that we are having a good year this year?

Viewed objectively, we are getting more than our money's worth for what we spend on basketball at Clemson.

I don't expect you to agree with me, but based on your most recent response, you already made your mind up before you started this thread. So why involve me?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


More falsehoods

1

Feb 5, 2024, 12:53 PM
Reply

We objectively did not play at an NCAA tournament level last year.

We are not "on pace" for a tournament bid. We were last "on pace" in December. Our current pace ("consistent and continuous speed in walking, running, or moving") will have us out of tournament has steadily declined for more than a month and will have us out of tournament projections. Bracket Matrix hasn't been updated since 2/2. We'll probably drop to an 8 seed in the next update. We'll be in "First Four In/Out" territory, switching places with UVA, if we lose to UNC.

Consistently, for all the years I've debated you on this site, you're grasp of tournament selection has been terrible. Actually way to terrible to be believable for someone that claims to know so much about basketball. It was the earliest sign that you are just a troll.

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Re: We clearly played on an NCAA Tournament level last year.


Feb 5, 2024, 12:59 PM [ in reply to We clearly played on an NCAA Tournament level last year. ]
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I agree that Clemson played on a tournament level last year and they got robbed of the chance to play in the tournament last year. They have to start winning games because their Net ranking keeps dropping ( I think it is 37 right now). The next game in Chapel Hill is going to be very difficult to win but after that there are many games they can win with 5 of them being at home.

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Agreed. I'm very concerned by our cold streak from the outside.


Feb 5, 2024, 1:08 PM
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I don't know what happened. I felt that November and December showed that we were a good shooting team, and that totally changed when we hit January.

Now I don't know what to think.

PJ is the main culprit, as his percentage has plummeted from around 40% in November and December (21-53) to under 20% in January (8-43).

If he had just hit 25% of his threes since the new year, we would be 17-4 right now and in third place in the ACC. Drastically different record with only a very small change in his shooting percentage.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


The only thing that we all know for sure is that they

1

Feb 5, 2024, 1:22 PM [ in reply to We clearly played on an NCAA Tournament level last year. ]
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n said that they identified as an ncaa team even though they couldn’t win even 1 game in the nit. That’s like ucf self declaring an ncaa championship even though they never even made the cfp.

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Re: We clearly played on an NCAA Tournament level last year.


Feb 5, 2024, 2:27 PM [ in reply to We clearly played on an NCAA Tournament level last year. ]
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I was curious if you would take some of the $10mil and spend on a better coaching staff? Donolon and Bender have pretty good resumes as assistants. I can't really tell you much about the other staff under Brad. Brad's win percentage has pretty much been the same his entire career with a couple outliers. Ultimately this is Brad's team and he hires the staff within his budget. I don't think our budget is so far out of line that we should expect more consistent results.

$10mil is a big number but what would it take? $1mil, $2mil?? Yes, I think Brad has run his course at Clemson. I think fans are over this era as well. Seems like Brad just doesn't know how to finish games with lower ranked teams pulling out last minute wins over us on a regular basis. The loss to Louisville last year put us out of the Tment and we are playing our way out again.

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Re: I always start with the premise that you spend money on whats important to you.


Feb 4, 2024, 11:43 PM [ in reply to I always start with the premise that you spend money on whats important to you. ]
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But your answer was basically political. What changes are made today? Who is fired, what position is hired? What changes make us a tment team next year? Does it take $5mil mor over the $9mil? Why that much?

I think our recruits are as talented as they have been in recent years or last 20. The best Clemson team I have personally seen is in 1989 when we had Elden C and Dale D. Even though we won more games the following year after Elden went pro, we were the best team I can remember. Obviously flashed of great players like Booker, Wright, Grant, KJ, etc, but team wise was '89. That was when ACC was the Top thru the 90s.

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And Marian Cash in 89***


Feb 5, 2024, 9:08 AM
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My answer was reality.

1

Feb 5, 2024, 12:15 PM [ in reply to Re: I always start with the premise that you spend money on whats important to you. ]
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Nothing political about it.

As I've said before, Neff becoming our AD was one of the best things that could happen for Clemson basketball. He worked closely with the program for years in his prior role, and knows what the program needs. It should be no surprise that one of his first moves as AD was to commit to increasing the budget for basketball assistants. He also committed to a new basketball operations building. These are steps in the right direction.

The effect of these changes takes time. However, I think the early returns are very good. Since hiring Donlon and Dixon as assistants in 2022, we finished third in the ACC. Our 2024 recruiting class is one of the best we've had in recent memory. Our current season includes some big wins in the non-conference portion of the schedule.

We need to make the NCAA Tournament this year. If we don't, Brad will be fired. I will support that decision.

If we do make the NCAA Tournament this year, I don't think we need to make any staff changes. Brad should keep his job. The basketball operations facility needs to happen, and plans for that need to be finalized and publicized.

You're already talking about next year, as if this one is over. Why are you giving up?!? We are just getting into the second half of the conference schedule. We have a lot of winnable games ahead. Let's see how the rest of the season plays out.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Cliffs Notes = Excuse, Excuse, Excuse.***

1
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Feb 5, 2024, 9:39 AM [ in reply to I always start with the premise that you spend money on whats important to you. ]
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It's not an excuse to point out that we typically go cheap

1

Feb 5, 2024, 12:18 PM
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when it comes to basketball at Clemson.

Whether it's skimping on facilities or underpaying coaches, we often go cheap.

Anyone who expects a coach to take over an underfunded program that isn't supported well by the administration or fans, at a school known for football, in a conference known for basketball, and make us a consistent NCAA Tournament team, you're being extremely unrealistic.

As I've said before, you guys would never dream of doing that to our football program. Why is it okay for basketball?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


more lies - literally every post

3

Feb 5, 2024, 12:56 PM
Reply

Historically our football team would never dream of hiring an inexperienced mid major coach on the cheap or promoting a position coach with no head coaching experience? It's literally two of the last three hires. You know it. You're lying.

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Same old lies and misrepresentations as always

2

Feb 5, 2024, 11:27 AM [ in reply to I always start with the premise that you spend money on whats important to you. ]
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Clemson does not spend less on basketball than most other schools or most other non-ACC schools in the Southeast. This is purely made up nonsense.

Our operating budget is inline with the median and average of the teams that made the NCAA tournament last year. JK only uses Brad's salary to try and make this point while also arguing that Brad is paid fairly - which is it?

Our basketball operating budget is almost identical to Purdue's. Matt Painter is paid $750,000 more than Brad. That means Brad has $750,000 more to spend on assistants and whatever recurring needs he has. Painter is in his 19th season at Purdue. He has made the NCAA tourney 14 times. He has won 4 regular season titles. He has 2 conference tournament titles. He has made the Sweet Sixteen 6 times. HE HAS MADE THE SWEET SIXTEEN AS MANY TIMES AS BRAD HAS MADE THE TOURNEY HIS ENTIRE CAREER. He has an Elite Eight appearance. For all that he makes $750,000 more. Brad has been rewarded faster and in larger increments than the coach of the number one team in the country whose accomplishments are exponentially greater than Brownell. And yet Judge Keller persists with this lie.

Once adjusted for the salary difference between Bill Self and Brad Brownell, the Kansas basketball operating budget almost identical to Clemson's.

Clemson has an operating budget similar to a historical powerhouse and one of the most succesful programs during Brad's tenure. Judge ignores me because I bring these facts that blow up his narrative. Ignoring me gives him plausible deniability on the rare occasion others put these facts in front of him.

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Re: JK, here is your chance! $10mil given to budget if guaranteed Tment seed

1
2

Feb 5, 2024, 12:42 PM
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Supposedly we need a better band.

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Were you in Atlanta for our game against Loyola in 2022?

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Feb 5, 2024, 1:13 PM
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If not, you would've been impressed by the fact that Loyola, a small Catholic school from Chicago, brought their band and had significantly more fans than we did, despite being located just a two hour drive away and having many Clemson alumni in the Atlanta area.

We didn't lose because we didn't have the pep band there, and I never said we did. But I did say that having a little more of a home court advantage would've been nice. If you don't think that support matters, then please stop going to football games. Our team should keep performing just as well without as many fans and the band there, right?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Replies: 35
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Tiger Boards - Clemson Basketball
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