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Trainer [26]
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110%er [6153]
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I don’t recall any such required course @CU in early 1970s
Apr 1, 2020, 11:10 AM
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I took Civics and Government in high school. Never had such at Clemson. When did this state law come into effect?
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Trainer [26]
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Re: I don’t recall any such required course @CU in early 1970s
Apr 1, 2020, 11:54 AM
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Great question. According to the article it first became law 96 years ago. Here is a copy of the law below. According to the history, it appears it was last amended in 1990 and 1998.
The issue is that Clemson is not complying with the law. The legislature is attempting to update the law again like it did in the 1990s, but Clemson lobbyists are lobbying against the update and want the current law repealed entirely.
S.C. Code Ann. § 59-29-120(A): Required College Class on Founding Documents All high schools, colleges, and universities in this State that are sustained or in any manner supported by public funds shall give instruction in the essentials of the United States Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and the Federalist Papers, including the study of and devotion to American institutions and ideals, and no student in any such school, college, or university may receive a certificate of graduation without previously passing a satisfactory examination upon the provisions and principles of the United States Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and the Federalist Papers, and, if a citizen of the United States, satisfying the examining power of his loyalty thereto.
HISTORY: 1962 Code Section 21-420; 1952 Code Section 21-420; 1942 Code Section 5324; 1932 Code Section 5342; 1924 (33) 1186; 1990 Act No. 318, Section 1; 1998 Act No. 322, Section 1. S.C. Code Ann. § 59-29-130: College Class “One Year” in Duration The instruction provided for in Section § 59-29-120 shall be given for at least one year of the high school, college and university grades, respectively.
HISTORY: 1962 Code Section 21-421; 1952 Code Section 21-421; 1942 Code Section 5324; 1932 Code Section 5342; 1924 (33) 1186.
S.C. Code Ann. § 59-29-150: Removal of College President for Noncompliance Willful neglect or failure on the part of any public school superintendent, principal or teacher or the president, teacher or other officer of any high school, normal school, university or college to observe and carry out the requirements of Sections 59-29-120 to 59-29-140 shall be sufficient cause for the dismissal or removal of such person from his position.
HISTORY: 1962 Code Section 21-423; 1952 Code Section 21-423; 1942 Code Section 5324; 1932 Code Section 5342; 1924 (33) 1186.
Source: https://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t59c029.php
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CU Guru [1558]
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Re: I don’t recall any such required course @CU in early 1970s
Apr 2, 2020, 1:14 AM
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I graduated in1979. I never took a course like this.
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CU Medallion [53858]
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Let's not overlook this fact...
Apr 1, 2020, 2:13 PM
[ in reply to I don’t recall any such required course @CU in early 1970s ] |
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"But most colleges in South Carolina, including Clemson, violate the law by not requiring students to take a class on America’s founding documents, according to the state’s Commission on Higher Education."
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Orange Blooded [3642]
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Re: Clemson U Works With Liberal Lawmakers to ‘Kill’ Requirement
Apr 1, 2020, 11:19 AM
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It’s an outdated law and should be killed. I learned all this in HS and so have my own kids. IMO, politicians shouldn’t be mandating what courses an institution of higher learning does and does not offer. Many of them (politicians) would do well to actually go back and read those documents themselves...
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Oculus Spirit [91880]
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I’m for a mandate to learn about OUR Constitution!
Apr 1, 2020, 11:24 AM
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Why not..since every citizen, especially a college student citizen, should be aware of how our Republic actually works.
Oh, I’m a Clemson History Grad - 1966.
Go TiGERS!
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Orange Blooded [3642]
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Re: I’m for a mandate to learn about OUR Constitution!
Apr 1, 2020, 11:30 AM
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I agree that those are all great things to know and be exposed to...but they are already taught in public high schools and I think it’s also picked up in many US history classes...I’ll defer to you on that. No problem with such classes being offered...but mandatory?
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Orange Blooded [3642]
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Re: I’m for a mandate to learn about OUR Constitution!
Apr 1, 2020, 11:39 AM
[ in reply to I’m for a mandate to learn about OUR Constitution! ] |
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Plus...isn’t it just mildly ironic that a document(s) which serves to establish our freedoms is made mandatory learning?
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110%er [9903]
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Re: I’m for a mandate to learn about OUR Constitution!
Apr 1, 2020, 5:52 PM
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Nothing ironic about knowing that document inside and out. Would definitely go a long way to prevent the encroachment on said freedoms. The Constitution doesn’t establish our freedoms. Those we are born with as Americans. Yes, it does reaffirm them in the Bill of Rights, but the main articles are limits on the Federal Government. Obviously, what has been taught in HS since even before my time is poor at best. Americans today don’t bat an eye at govt. overreach. I won’t even start on what has and is being taught to the younger generations.
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Orange Blooded [3620]
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Re: I’m for a mandate to learn about OUR Constitution!
Apr 2, 2020, 8:52 AM
[ in reply to Re: I’m for a mandate to learn about OUR Constitution! ] |
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Misunderstanding of concept of "freedom".
Freedom = choice made by a knowledgeable and morally responsible adult
Freedom does not apply to children, and is limited to employees. Nor does it mean the right to do whatever you want or don't want, as in the freedom to remain ignorant or the freedom to be immoral ( in the classic sense, not the sexual one).
You don't hand your car keys to your untrained child, would you?
Why not? Is it because you care about 1) your child 2) your car 3) every other person, car and building they might injure 4) all of the above?
Yet many parents hand their kids the car keys of life without making sure they are knowledgeable, adult and moral.
Does our school system teach our kids how to file taxes? How to perform jury duty? The value of fulfilling a contract you have signed? The importance of the right to vote? What habeas corpus means? A thorough class discussion of the Bill of Rights with all of its nuances?
I don't have an answer to this unlawful neglect. It seems that the colleges of SC that accept public funds are not up to the challenge of informing our youth about sustaining the origin and framework of our way of life. I wonder if there are enough qualified instructors to begin now, even if they wanted to. Where is President Obama when you really need him??
Please note I'm only discussing. I didn't TD you for your joke, so I hope you won't TD mine.
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Trainer [26]
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Re: Clemson U Works With Liberal Lawmakers to ‘Kill’ Requirement
Apr 1, 2020, 11:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson U Works With Liberal Lawmakers to ‘Kill’ Requirement ] |
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Two points to that.
1. English and math are required in high school, they are also required again in College. Heaven knows college kids these days seem to need to know something about how our government functions. Every degree program has requirements. That's what makes it a degree program.
I am also very skeptical of Clemson's claim that the reason it breaks the law is because requiring students to study the U.S. Constitution is a burden
If Clemson is concerned about a burden, why does it burden students financially with a required class on "cross cultural awareness"? Currently, Clemson imposes a financial and academic burden on students through a three credit hour class called "cross cultural awareness." Clemson requires all students to take this class as part of Clemson's general education requirements. (https://www.clemson.edu/academics/ad...0Education.pdf). It would be prudent on Clemson's part to eliminate this requirement and redirect funds wasted on this class to a class on the founding documents (which is state law). Using existing money to follow the law should be the first priority.
This isn't to say that cross cultural awarness is always a worthless course. But it's wrong to say Clemson's real objection to complying with state law is because it would cost too much to do so. There was a great discussion in the SC House of Representatives on this topic that you may enjoy:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV5t...sYhZIlil-Jpjng
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Trainer [26]
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Athletic Dir [881]
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It's not a class called cross-cultural awareness
Apr 1, 2020, 1:08 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson U Works With Liberal Lawmakers to ‘Kill’ Requirement ] |
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It's just a a new name for the arts/humanities classes including many we took 40 years ago. If you went to Clemson after it became a university, you likely took one or more, though the names may have changed. Some classes are obviously newer. As an engineer from before they watered down the degrees in the late 80s and early 90s so more kids could graduate, I took 3. They now have to take one of these classes. PSYC 2500 is particularly popular.
AAH 1020 - Survey of Art and Architectural History II 3 Credits AGRB 2050 - Agriculture and Society 3 Credits 1 ANTH 2010 - Introduction to Anthropology 3 Credits ART 2100 - Art Appreciation 3 Credits ASL 3050 - Deaf Studies in the United States 3 Credits CAAH 2010 - Cultural Literacies Across Media 3 Credits COMM 1800 - Introduction to Cross-Cultural Communication 3 Credits GEOG 1030 - World Regional Geography 3 Credits - I took this, but it was called Intro to Geography HIST 1720 - The West and the World I 3 Credits - I took this, but it was called Western Civilization I HIST 1730 - The West and the World II 3 Credits - I took this, but it was called Western Civilization II HIST 1930 - Modern World History 3 Credits HON 1930 - Freshman Colloquium: Cross-Cultural Awareness 3 Credits HON 2090 - Border Crossings: Experiences in World Cultures 1-3 Credits HUM 3090 - Studies in Humanities 3 Credits IS 1010 - Cross-Cultural Awareness International Experience 0 Credits (this is study abroad) IS 2100 - Selected Topics in International Studies 3 Credits (this is study abroad) LANG 2500 - Introduction to World Languages 3 Credits LANG 2540 - Introduction to World Cinemas 3 Credits MUSC 2100 - Music Appreciation: Music in the Western World 3 Credits MUSC 3140 - World Music 3 Credits PAS 3010 - Introduction to Pan African Studies 3 Credits POSC 1020 - Introduction to International Relations 3 Credits POSC 1040 - Introduction to Comparative Politics 3 Credits PSYC 2500 - Pursuing Happiness 3 Credits REL 1010 - Introduction to Religion 3 Credits REL 1020 - World Religions 3 Credits WS 1030 - Women in Global Perspective 3 Credits
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Legend [17493]
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Any Engineering major worth his weight, took electives based
Apr 1, 2020, 3:35 PM
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on the likelihood of meeting young women.
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Athletic Dir [881]
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Shawn Weatherly was in one of them
Apr 1, 2020, 3:46 PM
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but the school was still only about 40% female. It's almost 50% now.
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Orange Blooded [3174]
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110%er [9903]
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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And yet most people have extremely limited knowledge
Apr 1, 2020, 11:57 AM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson U Works With Liberal Lawmakers to ‘Kill’ Requirement ] |
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of the Constitution. Perhaps they know a little about the Bill of Rights (although most people don't even understand the first amendment), but I'm willing to bet that 99% of the population could tell you very little about the seven articles of the Constitution, and especially the first three.
That is painfully obvious anytime you see someone mention the Constitution on this website, your post included.
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CU Medallion [58301]
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THIS IS HATE SPEECH AND MUST BE BANNED!!!***
Apr 1, 2020, 12:55 PM
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Athletic Dir [881]
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110%er [9903]
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Hall of Famer [21464]
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Orange Blooded [3642]
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Hopefully...
Apr 1, 2020, 2:06 PM
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That wasn’t intended to help me feel better...
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110%er [7204]
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you haven't been around the Universities in a while have you
Apr 1, 2020, 11:45 AM
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Every state run university if not 90% of them are ran by a marxist ideaology. Liberal is not the term I would use. This has been going on for the last 30 years. The leaders are no longer constitutional sympathizers..until is changed from its "racist", "priviledged" roots and until all the of the individual liberty and freedoms are shaken out. They use whatever taboo or buzzwords of the day to scare off anyone who would argue against their agenda. But no man...this has been going on in the background for 30 to 40 years. I graduated in 2003 and it was very much a liberal ran institution but now it very marxist in its values and thats not just Clemson thats the universities world wide.
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Orange Blooded [3642]
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Nonsense***
Apr 1, 2020, 1:24 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Clemson U Works With Liberal Lawmakers to ‘Kill’ Requirement
Apr 1, 2020, 11:46 AM
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Should be required for reality TV stars that want to run for president.
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Orange Blooded [2145]
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Re: Clemson U Works With Liberal Lawmakers to ‘Kill’ Requirement
Apr 1, 2020, 12:42 PM
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First, that's our President. Second, I'd say he's probably got a good grip on the Constitution. The pure hatred of this President goes beyond anything I've ever seen. Even facts can't get in the way of TDS.
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CU Medallion [58301]
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Re: Clemson U Works With Liberal Lawmakers to ‘Kill’ Requirement
Apr 1, 2020, 12:56 PM
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He said Trump is a star. A star! That’s great.
Much better than an empty suit puppet whose sole qualification was voting “Present.”
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All-In [27440]
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Hopefully
Apr 1, 2020, 1:20 PM
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When you graduate from Clemson you will be curious enough about worldly matters to continue your learning into a lot of other areas than your major. I certainly have. If there is something I feel deficient in that is important to me I’ll seek a source of learning. I take courses at the community college often. I probably have over 400 books in my library and that’s a great way to continue learning. There is no way I could have worked a class on the constitution into my major field at Clemson. I never had a semester with less than 20 hours. Knowledge is out there. Go get it!
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Trainer [26]
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The Clogged your program
Apr 1, 2020, 7:13 PM
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It obviously was tough for you to get all you need to graduate with your degree program. I applaud you for your tough work.
But part of the reason it was tough is because Clemson required you to take certain classes. All the state law does is dictate one of those classes that Clemson needs to incorporate. Clemson shouldn't "add" this to your burden. It should take something out and replace it with this. Every degree program must meet the "core" requirements that all majors must take. This class should be a priority over some of the other classes Clemson already requires in the core as pointed out above. If necessary, cut out the three credit hour requirement in "cross cultural awareness" and replace it with the Constitution class. Or, Clemson already allows this class to meet one of the social sciences requirements. But that's only an option. Here, Clemson could make the decision that this is now the required class to meet one of the social sciences requirements. Personally, I think that is a great idea. You and I can have a thoughtful debate about whether it is a good idea or not. But, as of right now, it is the law. So Clemson must require it until that law is changed. And our college admin is choosing to violate that law by not requiring the class. That needs to change. Go Tigers.
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Athletic Dir [881]
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Some others to enforce, especially Casimir Pulaski Day:
Apr 1, 2020, 10:58 PM
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SECTION 63-19-2430. Playing pinball.
It is unlawful for a minor under the age of eighteen to play a pinball machine.
SECTION 53-3-20. Frances Willard Day.
The fourth Friday in October in each year shall be set apart and designated in the public schools as Frances Willard Day and in each public school it shall be the duty of such school to prepare and render a suitable program on the day to the end that the children of the State may be taught the evils of intemperance.
HISTORY: 1962 Code Section 64-102; 1952 Code Section 64-102; 1942 Code Section 5389; 1932 Code Section 5433; Civ. C. '22 Section 2698; 1918 (30) 791.
SECTION 53-3-30. General Pulaski's Memorial Day.
The Governor shall issue a proclamation calling upon officials of the government to display the flag of the United States on all governmental buildings on October eleventh of each year and inviting the people of the State to observe the day in schools and churches or other suitable places with appropriate ceremonies in commemoration of the death of General Casimir Pulaski.
HISTORY: 1962 Code Section 64-103; 1952 Code Section 64-103; 1942 Code Section 5390; 1932 (37) 1268.
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Legend [16186]
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Re: Clemson U Works With Liberal Lawmakers to ‘Kill’ Requirement
Apr 1, 2020, 2:03 PM
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This thread repeats one from last week.
The law is very very old and has been ignored by every school for decades because it is a stupid law.
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110%er [6725]
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~this~
Apr 1, 2020, 2:46 PM
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"Andrew Pickens" looks like he rose from his grave?
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All-In [27440]
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A document written in the
Apr 1, 2020, 6:33 PM
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18th century still is valid in the 21st century. Something wrong here. The second amendment especially is “outdated”.
In 1776 it probably was a good idea to have a musket in your home and carry it when you were out. BUT this ain’t 1776 and few really need a 100 round assault rifle today. Or do they.
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110%er [9903]
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Re: A document written in the
Apr 2, 2020, 12:38 AM
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That document will never be outdated because it doesn’t address technology but the human condition. History repeats itself because of humans inherent failings as well as our strengths.
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Trainer [26]
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Re: Clemson U Works With Liberal Lawmakers to ‘Kill’ Requirement
Apr 1, 2020, 7:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson U Works With Liberal Lawmakers to ‘Kill’ Requirement ] |
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I did not see the thread from last week.
There are two different issues here. 1) the merits of the law; and 2) the fact that Clemson is violating the law.
Laying merits aside, it is the law. Do you think people should have the ability to ignore the law simply if they do not like it? You seem to have forgotten the philisophical tradition exemplified by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr, who said in his Letter from Birmingham Jail: we all have both a moral and legal responsibility to obey “just laws” — a category he defined as any duly enacted law not “out of harmony with the moral law.” Here, Clemson has chosen to violate the state law because it finds it inconvenient, rather than unjust. College students being required to take a class on the U.S. Constitution is not an "unjust" law.
It's also not an old law as noted in the post above. First enacted in 1924, it has been amended twice in 1990 and 1998. That's not very "old," (or perhaps I am dating myself too much, ha). But even if the law were "old," as you say, is that cause to disobey the law? The oldest laws we have are the laws against murder and battery. Are those laws invalid because they are "old"?
You, like me, might learn something if you were to take this course.
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All-In [38455]
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Re: Clemson U Works With Liberal Lawmakers to ‘Kill’ Requirement
Apr 1, 2020, 6:40 PM
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If we need a law to force people to learn about the constitution , maybe they could put it onto the constitution ? I'm certainly no scholar , but I learned about that document in the 7th grade as I suspect most of us did . How many classes on it do we need ?
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All-In [40977]
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Do kids take civics these days? I'm not sue that they do
Apr 2, 2020, 6:02 AM
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My kids are all early 20's. I don't think they learned about the constitution in high school and for sure didn't in college.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Clemson U Works With Liberal Lawmakers to ‘Kill’ Requirement
Apr 1, 2020, 7:52 PM
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Maybe this course should be a prerequisite for reality TV stars that want to be president.
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All-In [40977]
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All-In [38455]
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Re: I learned about all that stuff watching cartoons and
Apr 2, 2020, 7:00 AM
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Lol . Classic , Neal ...classic .
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110%er [5312]
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Oculus Spirit [83286]
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Liberal lawmakers in Columbia? Who knew?***
Apr 2, 2020, 7:51 AM
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110%er [6882]
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Re: Clemson U Works With Liberal Lawmakers to ‘Kill’ Requirement
Apr 2, 2020, 8:44 AM
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As a retired public school teacher I remember that we would post each year during Constitution Week to remember to teach one lesson on the Constitution as required by law in SC. No one was ever Checked on to see if it happened. I remember I once sent out a copy of a sentence diagram of the Preamble, sort of tongue in cheek for English teachers.
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Replies: 44
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