Replies: 64
| visibility 1
|
All-In [27893]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5792
Joined: 10/1/15
|
Question...
7
7
Jan 30, 2023, 10:44 AM
|
|
I know and understand why the Washington Redskins, Cleveland Indians, St. John's Redmen, etc., changed their names. I get why they felt the need to change and why they were asked to do so.
I was curious as to why other teams have not felt the same pressure to change like the Kansas City Chiefs or Atlanta Braves. Is it because they have not been pressured to do so or is it because the Chief name is not considered offensive like the others (Redskins, Indians, etc.)? I know Florida State has received the blessing from the Florida Seminole tribe to continue using their name. I often wonder if Washington could have changed the name Redskins to a more respectful Native American name but still kept the Native American mascot while reaching out to get a blessing from a tribe as to what would be considered respectful. Maybe they did, but I have not heard that.
Just curious as to why some teams feel pressured to change the names and some do not or have not.
If there are any Native Americans on T-Net maybe you could provide some thoughtful input.
|
|
|
|
110%er [8934]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 844
Joined: 7/27/22
|
Re: Question...
2
Jan 30, 2023, 10:46 AM
|
|
I have often wondered this myself. Looking forward to hearing the responses.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [32743]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14932
Joined: 6/29/11
|
How
3
Jan 30, 2023, 10:47 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [10907]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7659
Joined: 1/6/04
|
Re: Question...
6
6
Jan 30, 2023, 11:00 AM
|
|
Bring back Chief Nockahoma.
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [9015]
TigerPulse: 69%
Posts: 9497
Joined: 1/18/17
|
Here’s another one…
8
8
Jan 30, 2023, 11:03 AM
|
|
Since “Redskins” was so terribly offensive…
Why is it still socially acceptable to refer to people as “rednecks” ?
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [27893]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5792
Joined: 10/1/15
|
Re: Here’s another one…
2
Jan 30, 2023, 11:05 AM
|
|
You do bring up a decent point!
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [9015]
TigerPulse: 69%
Posts: 9497
Joined: 1/18/17
|
I mean… I know the answer…
1
1
Jan 30, 2023, 11:12 AM
|
|
but just putting the question out there anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [17926]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 16774
Joined: 9/1/12
|
Do you find the term redneck offensive?
1
Jan 30, 2023, 12:36 PM
|
|
As a white Southerner I do not find that term offensive. However being called a certain type of redneck could be offensive to some.
Examples such as: White trash redneck Inbred redneck Stupid redneck
Those three would not be suitable sports franchise mascots imho.
Angry or Fighting Inebriated Rednecks would be acceptable in many situations.
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18946]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12857
Joined: 11/30/95
|
Some rednecks might not like being called redneck
2
Jan 30, 2023, 11:19 AM
[ in reply to Here’s another one… ] |
|
right?
If I have offended any rednecks I am truly sorry.
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [52053]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17223
Joined: 5/21/08
|
Re: Some rednecks might not like being called redneck
3
Jan 30, 2023, 1:01 PM
|
|
I forgive you.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [39990]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9560
Joined: 6/13/19
|
Re: Some rednecks might not like being called redneck
Jan 31, 2023, 9:32 AM
|
|
Same...
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [10792]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9351
Joined: 12/29/06
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [8154]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 10562
Joined: 11/28/03
|
Re: Here’s another one…
4
Jan 30, 2023, 11:19 AM
[ in reply to Here’s another one… ] |
|
Because no one gives a crap about white men as there is no money in it for them.
|
|
|
|
|
Commissioner [935]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 546
Joined: 10/8/10
|
Or
Jan 30, 2023, 11:35 AM
[ in reply to Here’s another one… ] |
|
the cowboys... wouldn't that offend ranchers?
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [40970]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42980
Joined: 11/30/98
|
I find Cracker Barrel offensive***
2
Jan 30, 2023, 11:52 AM
[ in reply to Here’s another one… ] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2669]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 8366
Joined: 8/12/14
|
Re: I find Cracker Barrel offensive***
Jan 30, 2023, 12:02 PM
|
|
Same. My blood boils every time I drive by one.
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [22860]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7308
Joined: 8/31/03
|
Rednecks commonly refers to...
2
Jan 30, 2023, 12:47 PM
[ in reply to Here’s another one… ] |
|
....Southern white people.
Deragatory nicknames for them is OK.
Redneck, Hillbilly, hick, cracker, bumpkin, etc.
All of them are acceptable.
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1587]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 837
Joined: 9/11/15
|
Re: Here’s another one…
Jan 30, 2023, 12:51 PM
[ in reply to Here’s another one… ] |
|
The term redneck derived from a red handkerchief worn around the neck by coal miners who were fighting Pinkerton detectives in West Va back in the 1920’s I believe. Didn’t have anything to do with a farmers tan.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [27893]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5792
Joined: 10/1/15
|
Re: Here’s another one…
Jan 30, 2023, 12:52 PM
|
|
Interesting.
|
|
|
|
|
Walk-On [131]
TigerPulse: 63%
Posts: 180
Joined: 11/11/04
|
Re: Here’s another one…
Jan 30, 2023, 9:34 PM
[ in reply to Here’s another one… ] |
|
Because rednecks usually don’t vote democrat. Sorry to bring politics in, but this begged for it,
|
|
|
|
|
Walk-On [131]
TigerPulse: 63%
Posts: 180
Joined: 11/11/04
|
Re: Here’s another one…
Jan 30, 2023, 9:35 PM
[ in reply to Here’s another one… ] |
|
Because rednecks usually don’t vote democrat. Sorry to bring politics in, but this begged for it,
|
|
|
|
|
Walk-On [131]
TigerPulse: 63%
Posts: 180
Joined: 11/11/04
|
Re: Here’s another one…
Jan 30, 2023, 9:36 PM
[ in reply to Here’s another one… ] |
|
Because rednecks usually don’t vote democrat. Sorry to bring politics in, but this begged for it,
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4932]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 6088
Joined: 12/20/04
|
Re: Question...
Jan 30, 2023, 11:28 AM
|
|
I'm not an Indian by birth but when I was a lad,my buddy was an Indian thru his Dad. We played cowboy's and Indians and he sometimes wanted to be the cowboy and I be the Indian.So, can I qualify to answer your question?
Message was edited by: irmotig®
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [40970]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42980
Joined: 11/30/98
|
I was in indian guides
1
Jan 30, 2023, 11:56 AM
|
|
Instead of cub scouts so I can relate. I grew up thinking American Indians and their stuff was cool.
Indians from India are like the opposite of cool.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [32743]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14932
Joined: 6/29/11
|
Amen.
Jan 30, 2023, 11:58 AM
|
|
And in Boy Scouts - Order of the Arrow was HEAVILY Indian themed.
Is that gone now ? ?
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5112]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3593
Joined: 7/7/12
|
Re: Amen.
1
Jan 30, 2023, 6:18 PM
|
|
I hope not because I was tapped into the Order of the Arrow at a campfire ceremony in about 1958 and added a couple of hash marks after that.
But, given the current state of the woke Boy Scouts, the tribe may have been abandoned.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4980]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 6042
Joined: 4/9/11
|
Your buddy was from India?***
Jan 30, 2023, 8:17 PM
[ in reply to Re: Question... ] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [108390]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 64974
Joined: 2/25/06
|
I've spent many moons selflessly building a bridge...
1
Jan 30, 2023, 11:28 AM
|
|
between the white man & the migrant Indian Nations.
While hutted up with my Cherokee, we've shared in fire waters & the three sisters, and yet she's never gone warpath over any of this.
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [19754]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17317
Joined: 8/18/05
|
The peyote must be pretty weak then***
1
Jan 30, 2023, 5:36 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [94305]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95551
Joined: 12/25/09
|
" Little Big Man! You have returned. Don't you remember me?
1
Jan 31, 2023, 5:01 AM
[ in reply to I've spent many moons selflessly building a bridge... ] |
|
That hurts me deep in my heart. You look tired Little Big Man. Would you like to come in my teepee and rest on soft furs? Come and live with me and I'll be your wife!"
I can't believe you passed that up, LBM.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [27893]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5792
Joined: 10/1/15
|
Re: Question...
1
Jan 30, 2023, 11:40 AM
|
|
Well, this thread seems to have taken a turn for the worse.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4365]
TigerPulse: 80%
Posts: 8370
Joined: 1/4/17
|
Re: Question...
Jan 30, 2023, 11:59 AM
|
|
Cop,
You ask an open question on T-net hoping for intelligent answers and . . .
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [27893]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5792
Joined: 10/1/15
|
Re: Question...
Jan 30, 2023, 12:02 PM
|
|
True, I asked for it. lol
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31451]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9152
Joined: 8/31/15
|
Re: Question...
3
Jan 30, 2023, 11:43 AM
|
|
All I can say is give it time. They will get around to being offended in due time.
Noticed Chiefs and the Noles do the same tomahawk chop as the Braves but the Braves are the only one I hear about as being an issue. And it will only be brought up if the Bravos make it to the playoffs.
Also hearing it is somehow my fault that the Memphis cops beat that man to death.
I just cannot win.
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [108390]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 64974
Joined: 2/25/06
|
Re: Question...
2
Jan 30, 2023, 11:45 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11304]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8102
Joined: 10/18/16
|
Re: Question...
Jan 30, 2023, 11:44 AM
|
|
$s
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1263]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 1999
Joined: 4/28/14
|
Re: Question...
1
Jan 30, 2023, 11:46 AM
|
|
I know the Atlanta Braves do a lot of charity and show respect to the local Native American tribes. They also have certain games that are like devoted to a certain tribe and recognizes them. So the native Americans in this area support the Braves bc the Braves support them and Braves is not offensive like redskins. I’m sure it’s a similar situation in KC.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [27893]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5792
Joined: 10/1/15
|
Re: Question...
Jan 30, 2023, 11:49 AM
|
|
I know Washington has a crappy owner in Sneider so I doubt he tried to build any relationship with anyone other than his secretaries, but I wonder if he would have reached out and tried building a relationship with local tribes and tweaked the name if things would have turned out differently.
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6153]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4043
Joined: 2/15/11
|
Attempt at a serious answers …
4
Jan 30, 2023, 11:50 AM
|
|
The terms “Chief” and “Brave” are considered honorable and not racist. Sort of like “Commanders” or “Senators”.
However, terms describing skin color (Red Skins, Red Men) or just co-opting an entire race of people (Indians) is considered offensive.
I believe “Seminoles” could certainly fall on the side of offensive fighters tribe itself were to take exception, but apparently they have decided otherwise.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3894]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5070
Joined: 9/10/01
|
The Cuse use to be "orangemen" ?***
1
Jan 30, 2023, 12:05 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1053]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 2104
Joined: 4/7/22
|
Re: Attempt at a serious answers …
1
Jan 30, 2023, 12:07 PM
[ in reply to Attempt at a serious answers … ] |
|
The names "Chiefs" and "Braves" aren't considered honorable to various indigenous tribes.
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6153]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4043
Joined: 2/15/11
|
Why? They are certainly not derogatory terms unless someone
Jan 30, 2023, 12:57 PM
|
|
chooses to kmake it so.
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1053]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 2104
Joined: 4/7/22
|
Re: Why? They are certainly not derogatory terms unless someone
Jan 30, 2023, 2:50 PM
|
|
You wo6ld have to ask them, but there are a number of indigenous people who think the terms are offensive. Again, the Braves nickname has been protested as far back as the 90s.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [32743]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14932
Joined: 6/29/11
|
Yeah. Whatever you say, chief.***
Jan 31, 2023, 6:01 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1053]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 2104
Joined: 4/7/22
|
Re: Yeah. Whatever you say, chief.***
Jan 31, 2023, 7:24 AM
|
|
It's not what I'm saying. I'm just passing along the info. Feel free to stick your head in the stand.
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1053]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 2104
Joined: 4/7/22
|
Re: Attempt at a serious answers …
Jan 30, 2023, 12:09 PM
[ in reply to Attempt at a serious answers … ] |
|
Also, the name "Vikings" is co-opting a whole race of people.
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6153]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4043
Joined: 2/15/11
|
Vikings are a “race”? You’re trying too hard here …
1
Jan 30, 2023, 12:59 PM
|
|
But, have at it. ?
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1053]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 2104
Joined: 4/7/22
|
Re: Attempt at a serious answers …
Jan 30, 2023, 12:09 PM
[ in reply to Attempt at a serious answers … ] |
|
Also, the name "Vikings" is co-opting a whole race of people.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4980]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 6042
Joined: 4/9/11
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [23236]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 11658
Joined: 10/12/14
|
Re: Attempt at a serious answers …
1
Jan 30, 2023, 12:10 PM
[ in reply to Attempt at a serious answers … ] |
|
The leaders Seminole Tribe in FL actually spoke out and said they felt the FSU mascot was honoring their tribe and ancestors. Unless or until they get a different group of leaders that are of the more easily offended type, that mascot should be ok. So I guess it is probably just a matter of time.
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [22860]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7308
Joined: 8/31/03
|
A little more info on Seminoles.
1
Jan 30, 2023, 12:54 PM
|
|
The school works very hard at keeping a good relationship with the Seminole tribe. They know that if the Seminole Tribe ever objects to the name it will soon be changed.
On the other hand, in return, the Seminole Tribe gets tremendous monetary gain from the legalized gambling laws in the state. There are many political advantages given to the Seminole Tribe when it comes to casinos, etc.
Some would call it a quid pro quo.
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [9903]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4537
Joined: 3/24/19
|
Re: Attempt at a serious answers …
2
Jan 30, 2023, 12:43 PM
[ in reply to Attempt at a serious answers … ] |
|
Senators are considered honorable? That’s a broad brush with a lot of bristles missing ?.
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [22860]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7308
Joined: 8/31/03
|
Braves were under serious pressure....
1
Jan 30, 2023, 12:50 PM
[ in reply to Attempt at a serious answers … ] |
|
.... to change their name. Remember when Jane Fonda was married to Ted Turner. She basically refused to do the warchant (stolen from FSU).
Braves got rid of Chief Knockahoma. But, they did not give in to pressure to change the name.
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [10792]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9351
Joined: 12/29/06
|
Re: Attempt at a serious answers …
Jan 31, 2023, 9:46 AM
[ in reply to Attempt at a serious answers … ] |
|
Quote: Sort of like “Commanders” or “Senators”.
I'm sorry, but I find the name "senators" extremely offensive. It makes me think of poor moral character, thievery, malfeasance, pompousness, self-indulgent, arrogance, hubris, just to name a few. Who would want that stupid name?
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1053]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 2104
Joined: 4/7/22
|
Re: Question...
1
Jan 30, 2023, 12:05 PM
|
|
Back when the Braves first made the World Series in 91, there was a lot of controversy about the name. There was also a lot of controversy about the Cleveland Indians name around that time as well.
Interestingly, the Washington Redskins name was not controversial at the time.
I would say that the NFL gas become much more prominent, and MLB less so, hence the reason the Redskins are now controversial and the Braves are not.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4980]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 6042
Joined: 4/9/11
|
I don’t know how Kansas City have gotten away with it…
1
Jan 30, 2023, 12:08 PM
|
|
Given the weird origin (Harold Bartle) and the chants and symbolism they currently use. There’s also the fact that there have been Native American protests over their name “Chiefs” being used.
The Atlanta Braves have gotten away with it too. Some controversy popped up as recent as 2021, but they’ve kept the name. That franchise did have some horrible names before that (Beaneaters, Doves, etc…)
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4877]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2424
Joined: 1/9/07
|
Re: Question...
Jan 30, 2023, 12:43 PM
|
|
Washington D.C., New York City, Cleveland are liberal strongholds and have been for decades. They all do what the pastie faced liberal machine tells them to do. Places where common sense still reigns have stood their ground and refused to change. It has nothing to do with respect of the Native Americans. They don't care one way or the other. Some Native American groups actually view the names as complements. It is white liberals who are offended by anything and everything.
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [62782]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 39889
Joined: 12/16/01
|
The Indians I know and associate with do not find those
2
Jan 30, 2023, 12:50 PM
|
|
terms offensive ... mainly because they are from India.
Matter of fact, a good friend of mine from high school and college, who is Indian, is a huge Braves fan.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4805]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1948
Joined: 9/29/15
|
If any of them had to go. You would think it would be
Jan 30, 2023, 1:44 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31451]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9152
Joined: 8/31/15
|
Re: If any of them had to go. You would think it would be
Jan 30, 2023, 2:03 PM
|
|
|
One of my favorite Braves logos!
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11257]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6678
Joined: 11/23/03
|
Re: Two things I know
Jan 30, 2023, 10:01 PM
|
|
1. Don't take any wooden nickels 2. DON'T TRUST WHITEY!
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [32743]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14932
Joined: 6/29/11
|
3. Lord loves a workin’ man.***
1
Jan 31, 2023, 6:03 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3168]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2996
Joined: 11/11/02
|
The names do not bother me...
Jan 30, 2023, 10:14 PM
|
|
Getting rid of the names not only relieves white guilt... but it makes Native Americans vanish from the conversation.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3732]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 4859
Joined: 11/4/03
|
UNC, Tennessee, & Ole Miss should ALL be forced to change…
Jan 31, 2023, 7:31 AM
|
|
…their names.
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1676]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2113
Joined: 8/27/11
|
Re: Question...
1
Jan 31, 2023, 8:15 AM
|
|
Well, I'm part Indian, my grandmother was full blooded Cherokee, my grandfather half Cherokee. This #### is propped up propaganda, these teams honor the native Americans and is not offensive at all. It's just funny how different races can find something offensive for someone else, like male feminists,lol.
|
|
|
|
Replies: 64
| visibility 1
|
|
|