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Replies: 28
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CU Guru [1845]
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Is Jack still getting fired?
Mar 9, 2013, 11:20 PM
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Clemson Players have looked tight out there this weekend
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All-TigerNet [12245]
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Re: Is Jack still getting fired?
Mar 9, 2013, 11:20 PM
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Where were you last weekend?
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CU Medallion [68528]
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Re: Is Jack still getting fired? Yes
Mar 9, 2013, 11:28 PM
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If his last name is Coleman. 
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CU Guru [1845]
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Re: Re: Is Jack still getting fired?
Mar 9, 2013, 11:30 PM
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Baseball is the most 'day to day' major sport there is. You have to be even keel, which is impossible for most people on here
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Orange Blooded [2874]
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The goobers have gone back under their rocks***
Mar 9, 2013, 11:48 PM
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All-TigerNet [12245]
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Re: The goobers have gone back under their rocks***
Mar 10, 2013, 12:10 AM
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I have been consistent with my stance on Leggett for years. I dont hide when we win some games. My view is based off of 2 decades worth of performance.
101-80 in ACC past 6 years
8-20 against rival the past 28
2 ACC Championships in 2 decades
0 National Chsmpionships
An abundance of terrible losses that are now common occurence
Trust me i didnt just watch one series and call it a wrap. He decided not to recruit to a high level for a span of years and that irks me to no end and now Lecroy is trying to save his tail with a stud freshmen class
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Commissioner [992]
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Re: The goobers have gone back under their rocks***
Mar 10, 2013, 3:20 AM
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Agree entirely palmettoson. Not a coot but certainly not a Leggett supporter.
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Legend [17005]
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Re: The goobers have gone back under their rocks***
Mar 10, 2013, 10:36 AM
[ in reply to Re: The goobers have gone back under their rocks*** ] |
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101-80 in ACC in last ten years is a negative? Could you provide a list of what the rest of the ACC has done in that same time period? Are you comparing it to the Wilhelm era when the ACC was terrible in baseball? Then, could you compare the baseball budget and major expenditures for any schools that have a better overall record than Clemson in that period. I haven't look up this info but I'll bet you two things: Only FSU has a better conference record in the previous ten years, and Clemson has spent less money on baseball than anyone in the top 4 winning percentages (pretty positive we'll be in the top 4 in wins).
Yes, the slide against South Carolina is disheartening. But again, the financial commitment has to be looked at. I would estimate that South Carolina spends at least twice what we do on baseball annually and that doesn't account for the $35 million investment in their stadium. It is also not Jack's fault that there is a growing disparity in the cost of attending school on partial scholarship at the two schools. I think you know SC is a little more liberal with essentially holding tryouts and cutting players from their team than Clemson is too.
2 ACC championships in 10 years means you're counting both tournament and regular season, right? I think the ACC baseball tournament is a joke that is no way to measure performance in baseball. So I could care less how many we win of those. Obviously you might feel differently. I'd like more regular season titles but how many have others won. Obviously we're playing second fiddle to FSU but if we're gonna compare to Wilhelm you have to acknowledge he didn't have to go through them for championships.
0 National Championships? So that is that the standard or does that trump everything else? If we we win a title but go .500 and don't make the tournament the next two years would Jack still be your man? Few coaches - very few - have afforded their school's fans the opportunity to see their team in Omaha more consistently than Jack. We were 1 win away from the final in 2010 before getting knocked out by SC. You can hold that against him - but I'd say their performance past that point shows it was more than a choke on his part.
"Terrible" losses is pretty subjective. Do you mean some losses every year to small conference Division 1 schools? What is his record the last 10 years against these schools? How does this compare to the competition. I think you'll find his record overall is quite favorable.
Jack never decided "not to recruit" at a high level. That is a blatant misstatement and you know enough about the baseball program to know it. If there is a fault to Jack's recruiting is that he has been in it with some of the absolute highest level recruits and gets burnt by the draft. When you say Lecroy is trying to "save his tail" with a "stud freshman class" you're making it seem like it's just a matter of choosing to have a good class and Jack wouldn't do it. Lecroy happens to be a pretty dang good recruiter. Did he take some kind of desperate measures to recruit this class or did he just do his job? I guess we can't give Jack credit for once again finding one of the best assistants in the business and that those people want to work for Jack must mean nothing also.
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All-TigerNet [12245]
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Re: The goobers have gone back under their rocks***
Mar 10, 2013, 12:27 PM
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Viztiz,
You sure that only FSU is above that 101-80 record. I have not looked at UVA, GT, or UNC records but I would venture to say those 3 schools have a better record than 101-80 in the past 6 years. Just a guess though.
As far as Wilhelm playing in a terrible ACC goes he built this program into a championship contender. I understand the competition got better. When I look at this program I don't see a program that is just getting beat by elite teams. It is getting by routinely by programs we used to curb stomp.
Once again regular season titles are not recognized by the ACC. We have 2 ACC titles in 2 decades. That is beyond bad. Don't try and justify it by saying "the tournament is a joke". What a loser mentality. It wouldn't be a joke if we actually won it more than ohhhh ssaayyy once out of every 10 years.
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Legend [17005]
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Re: The goobers have gone back under their rocks***
Mar 10, 2013, 12:31 PM
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We'll have to agree to disagree about the tournament but I take exception to the "loser mentality". Teams are playing to get to Omaha. The conference tournaments have become an after thought - you see this play out in the SEC as well. Are South Carolina's titles tainted by the lack of a conference championship? And I did think the ACC gave regular season titles before the division split - and that they recognize divisional champs now. I don't know for sure. Unfortunately hard info on college baseball isn't always easy to find - but is getting better.
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All-TigerNet [12245]
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Re: The goobers have gone back under their rocks***
Mar 10, 2013, 12:45 PM
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Everything I can find says the ACC has not recognized regular season titles since 1961. You play to win the game. I don't care if it is a pool play one legged hop scotch tournament.
The value of a conference tournament is still there. We just choose to diminish it because we can't seem to get the job done.
Divisional champs are recognized in football. I know that for sure.
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110%er [6937]
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CU Guru [1464]
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110%er [7231]
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I like stats also...
Mar 10, 2013, 11:58 AM
[ in reply to Re: The goobers have gone back under their rocks*** ] |
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Jack Leggett:
-1,230 career wins
-3 time ACC coach of the year
-23 NCAA tournament appearances
-2nd best ACC season in history (#1 being 1991 clemson team
-7 conference titles
Has Jack been slumping a little? Sure. But are you ready to give up a coach who we know can get us there for a coach who could sink the entire program?
Its not worth the risk....just my opinion. I am not a coach
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All-TigerNet [12245]
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Re: I like stats also...
Mar 10, 2013, 12:17 PM
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Jack Leggett
-any coach who is at Clemson for 20 years is going to have a lot of wins. Every season is built in with about 25 to begin with
-could care less about ACC coach of the year. win the game on the field
-you think Duke or UNC brag about making it to the NCAA basketball tourney. I don't think so. As a Clemson fan I EXPECT to make it to the tourney EVERY SEASON (its fairly easy to accomplish as well)
-That 2nd best ACC season in history was followed up by a monumental collapse
-ACC does not recognize regular season titles and has not recognized those since 1961.
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Legend [17005]
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Re: I like stats also...
Mar 10, 2013, 2:58 PM
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For clarification:
The baseball tournament didn't begin until 1973 and also wasn't held in 1979. I think you're getting baseball mixed up with the basketball tournament which began in 1961. None of this changes your underlying point just clarifying,
Now here is what has confused me for years and I finally have some explanation: In 1961, the conference altered its bylaws to reflect this, declaring that from then on, the tournament champion would be the sole champion of the ACC, eliminating the conference's regular-season title. Fans and media do occasionally claim a school has won a conference title when it finishes first in the regular season, but the conference does not recognize these titles as official. The bylaw declaring the tournament champion the sole champion remains in place to this day, making the ACC the only Division I college basketball conference that does not officially crown a regular season champion. (Note, however, that the NCAA officially recognizes regular-season champions in all conferences, including the ACC. Under current rules, regular-season champions of conferences
That is from wiki so take it for what it is worth. When we won the regular season basketball championship in 1990 my Duke and UNC friends were quick to point out that there is no such thing and that we didn't win the tournament so in effect it was all for naught. I took this at face value at the time. So, imagine my surprise the first time I went to a basketball game at UNC and saw a banner for each and every one of those imaginary championships that they have won. Surely, even if the ACC did recognize these a program as accomplished as UNC would feel above such trifling accomplishments. Well, apparently not. And, if a regular season title in basketball, not recognized by the conference itself is good enough for UNC (I've never been to Cameron) then I have no problem acknowledging the same for our programs. It's a moot point, since the divisional format makes it pretty hard to declare yourself champion but I could care less what the ACC recognizes or not. As long as I'm able to head out to Omaha roughly every 4 years I'm satisfied.
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All-TigerNet [10605]
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Just curious about something, I've never posted once about
Mar 10, 2013, 8:51 AM
[ in reply to The goobers have gone back under their rocks*** ] |
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Jack needing to be fired, forced out, etc., but why are people "goobers" if they believe that and express it here on a message board?
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110%er [7145]
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Who cares?
Mar 10, 2013, 10:14 AM
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Some people here would rather waste Tigernet bandwidth criticizing the legit opinions and concerns of others than actually presenting a meaningful, substantive response. Those people have nothing to offer. Just ignore them.
Jack has been a very good coach at Clemson. At one time he had us among the nation's elite baseball programs. In recent years we have slipped from that position. Anyone who denies that, or calls anyone who notices it a "goober", has no knowledge or credibility to say anything here. Those people mistake loyalty to a coach with loyalty to the school and the program. Coaches and players deserve to be evaluated based on performance.
Again, Jack has been a very good baseball coach at Clemson. But if we continue to regress, he needs to be fired. I hope he makes a comeback.
Message was edited by: Flying Tiger®
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CU Guru [1464]
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Well said, couldn't agree more.***
Mar 10, 2013, 11:00 AM
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Orange Blooded [3292]
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Re: Is Jack still getting fired?
Mar 10, 2013, 8:29 AM
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Yes as soon as he loses another game there will be idiots on here calling for his head. Don't get me wrong, losing two out of 3 last week to the Coots sucked, but unfortunately (for us) the Coots have a really good program right now. NCST is a very good team and for us to have taken the first 2 on their field is quite impressive.
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All-TigerNet [12245]
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Re: Is Jack still getting fired?
Mar 10, 2013, 11:01 AM
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Impressive for who? We should expect to take 2 out of 3 from a lot of our ACC opponents. I am not willing to just give up and say we are not an elite program. This was an elite program. I grew up with it. Elite programs take 2 out 3 from NC State (and yes I know they are ranked)
And to be fair your exaggerating a little bit on the haters are just here after a loss. I think most who don't care for Jack noticed the vacation he took from the job during recruiting season for years. This baseball program doesn't need someone that is willing to take our fans, tradition, and history for granted. That is exactly what happened when Jack quit on the recruiting trail for years. He thought he was good enough to just take marginal players and turn them into world beaters. It didn't work.
Lets hope this past years recruiting success becomes a consistent trend within our program. Jack is a good coach, but I just don't see the effort OFF THE FIELD from him. I see it on the field, but as most of you know in sports you have to win on the recruiting trail to give yourself a chance.
With the stud freshmen class we have now that is a good start, but elite programs do that year in and year out. Have to be consistently in the top 10 on the trail almost every year to be considered a national championship contender
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CU Medallion [55812]
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Re: Is Jack still getting fired?
Mar 10, 2013, 8:49 AM
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He just got a STAY, but he ain't all the way off death row!!!
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110%er [6937]
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Re:Yep, he got six more bullets.***
Mar 10, 2013, 10:59 AM
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CU Guru [1429]
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Re: Is Jack still getting fired?
Mar 10, 2013, 10:38 AM
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Only on Tigernet.
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110%er [6709]
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Is Jack still getting fired? Not if this winning keeps up...
Mar 10, 2013, 10:55 AM
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And I hope it does, however, unless he gets this group to Omaha, I think he is a goner! And I hope we are in the College World Series. And I love Leggett is now recruiting locally - great to have some of the best players from S.C.! GO TIGERS KEEP IT UP!
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CU Guru [1464]
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Like some show up after a win? Let the season play out.
Mar 10, 2013, 11:03 AM
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Make a decision then, we miss the tourney he had to go. 50 wins, hosting a regional, or making it to the supers brIng him back.
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All-In [25178]
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this is just as bad as the folks
Mar 10, 2013, 12:21 PM
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who jump on after two losses and call for his head. Same thing.
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110%er [7145]
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I agree 100%
Mar 10, 2013, 12:55 PM
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This is why there are so many games in a baseball season. By the end of the season you have a good idea of where the team and the program are. And after a few seasons you can pretty well gauge the way things are trending.
Things haven't been trending well for Clemson baseball for the last few seasons. We've slipped considerably from where we were. Our instate rival owns us. But it really wasn't that long ago that we were in the hunt for a national championship. I hope that Jack can get it done and return us to where we were in the early to mid-90's.
We have high expectations here at Clemson, and that's a good thing. Jack hasn't earned a tenured position here.
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110%er [6937]
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We had an idea after last season.***
Mar 10, 2013, 1:14 PM
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Replies: 28
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