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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Interesting stats...
Dec 1, 2022, 9:30 AM
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Clemson's national Yards Per Game ranking by year, including OC/QB...
2022: #53 (Brandon Streeter/DJU)
2021: #100 (Tony Elliott/DJU)
2020: #10 (Tony Elliott/TL)
2019: #5 (Tony Elliott/Jeff Scott/TL)
2018: #3 (Tony Elliott/Jeff Scott/KB/TL)
2017: #38 (Tony Elliott/Jeff Scott/KB)
2016: #12 (Tony Elliott/Jeff Scott/DW)
2015: #11 (Tony Elliott/Jeff Scott/DW)
2014: #60 (Chad Morris/CS/DW)
2013: #11 (Chad Morris/TB)
2012: #9 (Chad Morris/TB)
2011: #26 (Chad Morris/TB)
https://www.espn.com/college-football/stats/team
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All-TigerNet [13959]
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hmmmmmm
Dec 1, 2022, 9:35 AM
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need that generational qb to run this thang, apparently.
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All-In [30460]
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So DJ is a bust
Dec 1, 2022, 9:38 AM
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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I’m not going to say he’s a bust…
Dec 1, 2022, 10:04 AM
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but he’s certainly a common denominator, using this metric anyway. We’d need more data with Brandon Streeter as OC working with other QBs to know more definitively.
I don’t think the blame falls on any one person/position though, and that’s not my assertion here. I hear a lot of people blaming coaching, QB play, etc… for the recent 10 win seasons, and I thought this information was interesting for comparison purposes.
Message was edited by: Francis Marion®
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: I’m not going to say he’s a bust…
Dec 1, 2022, 10:18 AM
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Yeah, everone is up Streeter's ###, but he did a better job with DJ than TE did.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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And TE did a fantastic job…
Dec 1, 2022, 10:22 AM
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Both as a coOC and OC, with several different QBs, with the exception of one season, 2021.
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Asst Coach [707]
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Re: I’m not going to say he’s a bust…
Dec 1, 2022, 1:45 PM
[ in reply to Re: I’m not going to say he’s a bust… ] |
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Have you seen DJ's stats the second half of the season? He's actually been worse this year starting with the Syracuse game than he was in 2021. We've seen that DJ has severe mental issues and breaks down if anything goes wrong. Since Syracuse, he has absolutely imploded. The same thing happened last year, only he started the season against UGA with the third best defense of the last 15 years.
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Freshman [-79]
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No doubt. We wondered how he'd handle adversity like he saw against Cuse...
Dec 1, 2022, 1:55 PM
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You can see it now through his body language and facial expressions... one error or bad pass or statue-sack, whatever, and he's his own worst enemy.
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Rock Defender [54]
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110%er [6171]
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Re: I’m not going to say he’s a bust…
Dec 1, 2022, 11:00 AM
[ in reply to I’m not going to say he’s a bust… ] |
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What’s more amazing is in those years with TL and DW offenses we probably would have ranked even higher but we substituted liberally and shut down the playbook with big leads. The 2014, 2017, 2021 and 2022 years the starter played most of the games and the coaches purposely shortened games to limit risk of mistakes.
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Legend [19697]
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He's a bust in so far as being a generational QB
Dec 1, 2022, 10:28 AM
[ in reply to So DJ is a bust ] |
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historically, prior to the Dabo years, he's had a good year, even compared to Whitehurt. It's just the bar is much higher now.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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The rankings also show that this program can win…
Dec 1, 2022, 10:30 AM
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without generational talent at QB, not at the same level, but at a really high level.
Edit to include, we also won the biggest of games with the least amount of blue chip talent of any playoff team in the history of the playoffs... twice. That's got to be good coaching, right?
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All-In [44054]
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It sounds like you’re defending our current coaches
Jun 10, 2021, 3:32 PM
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by bragging on a team from several years ago that had a lot of coaches who aren’t on our staff anymore.
The best way to defend our current coaches would be to look at how they are doing now, but I know that doesn’t help your argument much.
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Oculus Spirit [82077]
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Coming from someone who really knows how to defend a coach.
Dec 1, 2022, 8:49 PM
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Asst Coach [707]
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Re: He's a bust in so far as being a generational QB
Dec 1, 2022, 1:48 PM
[ in reply to He's a bust in so far as being a generational QB ] |
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How do you figure being the #80 QB in the country is having a good year? It's better than being #100 I guess, but I wouldn't call being one of the worst P5 QBs being good in any sense of the word. And I hate the argument he's had a good year. He had a good first half of the season. If he kept that up, we could absolutely say he's been good. But he didn't. In the second half of the season, he's been one of the 10 worst QBs in the country.
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Legend [19697]
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How many Clemson QB's prior to Dabo had a 22-8
Dec 1, 2022, 2:44 PM
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TD/INT ratio?
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Legend [19586]
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Re: How many Clemson QB's prior to Dabo had a 22-8
Dec 1, 2022, 6:16 PM
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How many prior to DJ had their playbook dumbed down so much that 95% if their passes were behind or within 8 yards of the LOS?
Considering the passes that he’s been asked to make 22-8 is terrible
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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It’s interesting that’s what you gleaned.***
Dec 1, 2022, 9:57 AM
[ in reply to hmmmmmm ] |
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Freshman [-79]
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What is "generational" mean? Alabama has, what, four QBs in the league?
Dec 1, 2022, 1:53 PM
[ in reply to hmmmmmm ] |
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Were they all "generational" QBs?
Look, we could be much more efficient offensively even if we had a guy like Sam Hartman, or (gulp) Spencer Rattler.
Hardly "generational" QBs... just a QB capable of delivering the ball on time and on target more often than not.
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Orange Blooded [3569]
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Re: hmmmmmm
Dec 1, 2022, 2:45 PM
[ in reply to hmmmmmm ] |
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I wouldn't call Tajh Boyd a generational talent, that's about the level Clemson needed to win all of their games this year and maybe last year imo.
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All-In [44054]
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Maybe we will be back in the top 50 next season.***
Dec 1, 2022, 9:39 AM
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Maybe we will be back in the top 50 next season.***
Dec 1, 2022, 10:09 AM
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Seems like you’d understand what a tall ask that is since the basketball team, as a whole, has only pulled it off 3 times in the last 12 seasons.
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Orange Blooded [3850]
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Legend [16158]
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Maybe if we spent $14 million on the basketball coaches***
1
Dec 1, 2022, 1:43 PM
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Then we'd lose $5,000,000.00/year on men's basketball.***
Dec 1, 2022, 1:49 PM
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null
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Legend [16158]
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Assuming our revenue didn't increase when our program levels
1
Dec 1, 2022, 2:40 PM
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up...I would imagine our revenue increases if we are consistently ranked in the Top 20
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All-In [28416]
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Re: Assuming our revenue didn't increase when our program levels
Dec 1, 2022, 2:47 PM
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you could pay cbb billions and he wouldn’t win the nit coaching the warriors
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Legend [16158]
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Who is our NIT opponent?***
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Dec 1, 2022, 6:04 PM
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Orange Blooded [2112]
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Freshman [-79]
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We're #9 with two games to go, troll.
Dec 1, 2022, 2:00 PM
[ in reply to Maybe we will be back in the top 50 next season.*** ] |
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What's Brad's best finish EVER? LOL. He has two top-40 finishes in 12 years.
You're type of contradictory lunacy is why you're a troll. There's no way you're so dense.. you cant be so dense to not see every weak critique you try for the best sports program in school history is applicable x100 for your husband's program.
Troll.
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110%er [6861]
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Typically, Trolls have pulses in the 60s or less. FWIW***
Dec 1, 2022, 2:48 PM
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Freshman [-79]
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Ms. Keller has a dropping pulse with over 30k points
Dec 2, 2022, 7:56 AM
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Do you know how many TDs that takes?
Contrarily, if someone is new here and one obsessed TD bandit calls you a coot and immediately starts TDing every post you make, do you understand what that does?
You've rec'd about 460 TDs BTW.
Your theory is fair, just not effective without understanding the context.
Ms. Keller is a football troll. This site voted and a majority said to ban her, FWIW.
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All-TigerNet [13700]
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Re: Interesting stats...
Dec 1, 2022, 9:41 AM
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I see a correction in mid progress.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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There are a lot of good tidbits in there…
Dec 1, 2022, 9:56 AM
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if someone was interested.
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All-In [27193]
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Re: Interesting stats...
Dec 1, 2022, 10:20 AM
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DJ is a bust. Combine that with the timing of Jeff Scott's departure, things start to make sense.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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I love Jeff Scott…
Dec 1, 2022, 10:23 AM
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but TE called plays while JS was here, and TE did just fine after JS left, except 2021. That’s not to say I wouldn’t like to see JS back in some capacity though.
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All-In [27193]
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Re: I love Jeff Scott…
Dec 1, 2022, 10:25 AM
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I think the falloff in production at WR has a LOT to do with JS's departure. A lot. I also think our talent evaluation has fallen off as well. I think we have a couple of busts at WR as well.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Agree with most of that…
Dec 1, 2022, 10:27 AM
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We’ve also had a ton of injuries at the WR position the past few years. But then I look at Williams this season, and I am optimistic that the past couple of years were an anomaly. But the lack of WR production, regardless of reasons why, certainly plays into the rankings above.
Message was edited by: Francis Marion®
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All-In [27193]
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Re: Agree with most of that…
Dec 1, 2022, 10:30 AM
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Agree. The injuries to Collins and Randall hurt us. Disappointed with Ngata, Williams and Spector. None has provided any consistent production. None of them seem to create any separation, either.
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All-In [44054]
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That suggests that TE requires generational talent at QB
Dec 1, 2022, 8:55 PM
[ in reply to I love Jeff Scott… ] |
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and not “merely” a 5 star QB to have a good offense.
That doesn’t say much for his coaching.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Maybe…
Dec 1, 2022, 9:14 PM
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Except we’ve already established he’s won two national championships with the least amount of blue chip talent of any program. I’d guess that’s good coaching.
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Freshman [-99]
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Re: Maybe…
Dec 2, 2022, 6:18 AM
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They won because they had 2 of the most memorable college QBs of the past, well ever. You replace either of those 2 and there is no titles and maybe less playoff appearances. They were bailed by historical college QBs. You see what you get without one. Dabo either needs to get himself another one or those QBs now, or he needs to admit he’s wrong, and not an offensive guru, and hire a whole new staff of proven coaches. He should have done that last year. Now he’s in a very bad spot. You can see something is bothering him. Maybe he knows and is going to fix the coaching staff.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Haha…
Dec 2, 2022, 7:40 AM
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They did make the playoffs with a less than historical QB. Luckily our coaches, who can’t admit they were wrong, were bailed out by two players who single handedly won them 2 national championships. Are we giving DJ credit for the back to back 10 win seasons too?
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Freshman [-79]
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We had the most productive passing attack in school history in 2020...
Dec 1, 2022, 2:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: Interesting stats... ] |
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...when Cornell Powell was "developed" from nowhere into an NFL draft pick, and Amari Rogers parlayed doubling his output from the previous year into a higher draft pick.
Those were our two leading receivers. That's it. Yet, we had the most productive receiving output in Clemson history.
Jeff Scott was gone then.
Enter year 2 and 3, post Scott. What's the difference in these years and 2020? QB.
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Orange Blooded [3615]
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Re: Interesting stats...
Dec 1, 2022, 10:24 AM
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Elliot and Street both suck as OC's.
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MVP [541]
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Re: Interesting stats...
Dec 1, 2022, 10:29 AM
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Same WR corp in '21 & '22 except our leading WR in '21 was a broken J-Ross. Not saying it's all on them but they own a large % of blame too.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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WR play hasn’t been great…
Dec 1, 2022, 10:32 AM
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But I’m optimistic about the future after seeing Williams this season.
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Legend [18798]
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Combination of four things
Dec 1, 2022, 10:55 AM
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OC - Streeter is a horrible play caller. 9 or 13 runs up the middle on 1st down? That would be crazy if it worked even a little bit. DCs are feasting off his idiot playcalling.
WR - Busts, development, injury, recruiting. The best freshman WR almost didn't get an offer, EJ dropped the one first-down pass thrown to him Saturday, and Collins left with an injury. The whole room as taken a huge step down, and I don't think Randall will save it.
RB - Mafa and Ship are good, but neither are ETN. Also. They can't hold on to the ball. Recruiting as absolutely nose-dived the last two years as well, so the best isn't yet to come there.
QB - DJ is just regressing to being a turnover machine, missing routine passes, locking eyes on one receiver, and simply not seeing the field.
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Orange Blooded [4970]
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It all starts with the QB
Dec 1, 2022, 12:49 PM
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Nothing made me happier than seeing DW4 go through his pre-snap read, see something, and then walk up to the line of scrimmage to adjust the blocking scheme. You could really open the playbook up with a QB like that.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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It's fun when you see your QB wind up...
Dec 1, 2022, 1:07 PM
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and you get excited about the possibility of where the throw is going. It's not so much fun to see your QB wind up and you just pray something bad doesn't happen.
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Heisman Winner [111651]
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that sounds like a YOU problem
Dec 1, 2022, 1:46 PM
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I always expect great things out of everyone, Except that troll classof1994®
Message was edited by: Tigerbalm1®
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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It's because you're a person of the peoples, just like me...***
Dec 1, 2022, 1:56 PM
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Heisman Winner [111651]
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Sometimes
Dec 1, 2022, 3:35 PM
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I forget that other peoples lack my gifts, I natually assume others acheive at hi levels like me, ultimatly to let me down.. Fellow Motorists do this the most.
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Rock Defender [71]
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Re: Interesting stats...
Dec 1, 2022, 3:09 PM
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Good work. The data presented make the case that our offensive success depends on the QB. If they are just good, it doesn’t work. They have to be really, really good, and they have to be mobile.
So what happens when we don’t have that guy? We fall WAY off. It doesn’t matter who the OC is. Maybe if Streeter can’t turn it around, they should go in a completely different direction and adopt an offense that doesn’t depend on winning the QB lottery. They’ve tried to do it mid season like ND has done, but it’s like there’s a mental block that makes them sometimes revert to calling plays for a good QB we don’t have.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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I agree that the offense runs better with a really...
Dec 1, 2022, 3:18 PM
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really good QB. I think most do. I think it also demonstrates that the offense can run pretty good with good QBs as well. Tahj Boyd was a good example of this, and so was Kelly Bryant. Only three times have we had an offense outside of the top 50 in yards per game, and one of those is 2022, which is not over. The other two were with DJ at the helm and a season where Watson took over for Stout, after 3-4 games if memory serves.
I take from this that we had some really good coaches with really good track records that ran into a problem in 2021. Was the issue DJ? Coaching? WR play? Injuries? I think it's some combination of all of the above, plus some. I think it's hard to make snap judgements based on the info we have though. I know that it's frustrating watching some of our play calling right now, but I don't know if that's coaching, or coaches doing the best they can under extenuating circumstances. Time will tell.
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Legend [17616]
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Thanks for homework FM
Dec 1, 2022, 8:42 PM
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Looks like DW4 and TL16 and WRU made a difference ... aahhh, the good old days!
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Oculus Spirit [82077]
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I don't find these stats interesting
Dec 1, 2022, 8:44 PM
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at all
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Orange Blooded [2594]
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THIS THREAD
Dec 1, 2022, 9:01 PM
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is restoring my faith in TigerNet after staying away for 3 days because of the garbage and attacks. Finally some good discussion and debate. Thanks to all who have posted.
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Oculus Spirit [93678]
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That's just as significant as David Hood's stats.
Dec 1, 2022, 9:23 PM
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Anyone who can handle stats knows they they can be used in a selected grouping to make an invalid opinion valid.
The one goal of Statistics 301 is to show the student that stats are easy to abuse.
You too, DavidHood®
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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You’re welcome***
Dec 1, 2022, 9:34 PM
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CU Medallion [52462]
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Re: Interesting stats...
Dec 1, 2022, 11:52 PM
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Mascot [19]
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Re: Interesting stats...It's the secretaries fault
Dec 2, 2022, 12:34 AM
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Yikes! The secretaries (admin assistants) must be hiding the stats from Dabo each week. The 2022 stats may continue to drop in the final 2-games? "Mrs. Wiggins could you please bring me the stats file?" "As soon as I finish watching your little movie Mr. Dabo-Tudball; and then my nails need to finish drying". (The Carol Burnett Show)
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CU Guru [1796]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1115
Joined: 4/6/18
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Re: Interesting stats...
Dec 2, 2022, 7:52 AM
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Thanks for pulling the stats together for us to see. If you boil it down, what this information is saying is that skilled quarterbacks matter. DeShawn and Trevor were generational QBs but Taj wasn't, he was a step below that and these statistics show a quarterback of Taj Boyd's performance level is what is necessary to be a top performing team. Kelly Bryant couldn't do it and DJ can't do it. I think it is time to move on from DJ and look for that next quarterback, unless you think DJ can turn it around. I don't want to spend another season trying to find that out.
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CU Guru [1655]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 1824
Joined: 12/9/15
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Re: Interesting stats...
Dec 2, 2022, 12:21 PM
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receivers matter...
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All-TigerNet [13700]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4839
Joined: 9/17/05
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Re: Interesting stats...
Dec 3, 2022, 10:11 PM
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This post came to mind in the first half of tonight’s game.
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All-TigerNet [13700]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4839
Joined: 9/17/05
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Re: Interesting stats...
Dec 4, 2022, 9:58 AM
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Bump. Underrated post lost in all the whining.
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Walk-On [119]
TigerPulse: 95%
Posts: 133
Joined: 10/2/21
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Re: Interesting stats...
Dec 4, 2022, 10:05 AM
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DJ just doesn’t have the mentality to be the guy. Same reason I can’t make a 2 foot putt for $1. ?
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110%er [6982]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6355
Joined: 9/21/04
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2011-2020
Dec 4, 2022, 10:41 AM
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We had elite wide receivers and quarterbacks. We’ve had neither the last two years. Hopefully next year with Kade we can find some receivers he can throw too and be back in the hunt
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Heisman Winner [140604]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33881
Joined: 12/5/10
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I won’t tell you what happened last night…
Dec 4, 2022, 10:48 AM
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if you haven’t watched it, but we had the same WRs.
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