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Oculus Spirit [83133]
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This deserves it's own thread. Can someone who is openly gay
Dec 16, 2021, 9:52 AM
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be a Christian?
I get that we are all sinners, and I believe in God and Jesus, just not everything written in the Bible.
If I sin every day in some way, know I am sinning, yet ask God's forgiveness on occasion, can I be a Christian? I swear every day, drink to excess on occasion, smoke the peace pipe filled with green bud, and lust in my heart for other women I'm not married to.
If someone is gay, to be a Christian and have a chance to go to heaven, do they have to ask forgiveness of their sin of being gay?
Also, wouldn't God take into account that he made gay people the way they are, and have some forgiveness for their sins, or are they just supposed to live a lie and be unhappy their whole lives?
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All-In [46825]
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Can somebody who wears clothes with two different types of
Dec 16, 2021, 9:55 AM
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cloth be a Christian?
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All-In [42197]
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How about eating oysters?***
Dec 16, 2021, 9:57 AM
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All-In [46825]
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Can somebody be a Christian who has sat in a seat
Dec 16, 2021, 9:57 AM
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a mensurating woman has sat?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Absolutely.
Dec 16, 2021, 9:57 AM
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Do you believe in the divinity of Christ and that he died for our sins? You're a Christian. End of story. That is the only Biblical standard for who is, and is not, a Christian.
One could argue that Christians strive not to live in sin, but that is not a Biblical requirement of being a Christian. It is only evidence that maybe your faith is not genuine. And, I don't consider two married men to be anywhere close to what we commonly thing of "not living a Christian lifestyle."
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Rock Defender [54]
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I would stack the authenticity of Buttegeig's faith over
Dec 16, 2021, 9:59 AM
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anyone who lives a life of hate and bigotry.
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All-In [46825]
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Re: This deserves it's own thread. Can someone who is openly gay
Dec 16, 2021, 10:06 AM
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Tardog
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: This deserves it's own thread. Can someone who is openly gay
Dec 20, 2021, 7:51 PM
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You called??
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Hall of Famer [24119]
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Re: This deserves it's own thread. Can someone who is openly gay
Dec 16, 2021, 10:13 AM
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I don't think that is for man (man kind) to judge. Only God truly knows a person's heart. But the marriage of a man and woman is the only type of marriage (that I can recall) that is described in the New Testament.
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Rock Defender [54]
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I support gay marriage as a government classification.
Dec 16, 2021, 10:15 AM
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I personally oppose churches officiating gay marriages, but that is up to the individual pastor or church. And, otherwise, a gay marriage is a non-issue. It certainly has no bearing on one's faith.
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Hall of Famer [24119]
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Re: I support gay marriage as a government classification.
Dec 16, 2021, 10:23 AM
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My thoughts on gay marriage from a personal stand point is different than what I believe the government should be dictating.
I have a close friend who is a woman that married another woman. She asked me to be her best man. While the decision for me was not difficult as a decision process, it was heart breaking for me. I explained to her my beliefs, and she respected my decision. And we are still close friends. Thankfully she is great person, and we were able to maintain our friendship.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Isn't that the very heart of what the issue is politically?
Dec 16, 2021, 10:31 AM
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People take the personal beliefs of other people so personally. Fortunately both you and your friend were mature enough people to recognize that just because you have different deeply held beliefs, that didn't change how you saw each other's hearts.
The idea that a Christian baker not making a wedding cake for someone is somehow a big affront to civil rights is absurd, but reflects the polarized (and utterly stupid) current environment.
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All-American [590]
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Re: I support gay marriage as a government classification.
Dec 20, 2021, 10:10 AM
[ in reply to Re: I support gay marriage as a government classification. ] |
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Somewhat surprised that an openly gay friend asked a friend that has a personal disagreement with gay marriage to be her best man.
Did she not know this, or does she just not have any other good friends that think two women ought to be married?
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Hall of Famer [24119]
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Re: I support gay marriage as a government classification.
Dec 20, 2021, 4:07 PM
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Not something we had talked about until that moment.
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All-In [26968]
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There is no such thing as "gay marriage".
Dec 16, 2021, 10:30 AM
[ in reply to I support gay marriage as a government classification. ] |
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But it's no skin off my nose if two people want to commit to each other in some sort of formal way, and if the government chooses to give them tax breaks to do so.
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All-In [42197]
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Yep
Dec 16, 2021, 10:57 AM
[ in reply to I support gay marriage as a government classification. ] |
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It should always be:
Government - Any two consenting adults can get married.
Church - Private entity gets to choose whether or not to allow it or endorse it.
No one gets to tell two other people they can't be married under law because it offends them.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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The government at all levels should get out of the marriage
Dec 16, 2021, 11:32 AM
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business.
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All-In [34600]
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yep***
Dec 16, 2021, 11:38 AM
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All-In [42197]
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Not to the point...
Dec 16, 2021, 11:42 AM
[ in reply to The government at all levels should get out of the marriage ] |
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That same sex couples are not recognized for tax purposes, probate purposes, HIPAA stuff, etc.
If we want to say the government doesn't get involved in marriage, that's fine, but not to the point where it's allowed to use that as an excuse to discriminate against same-sex couples.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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Then the gays are really one step ahead of the other folks
Dec 20, 2021, 10:14 AM
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who get married.
I'll assume since their marriage hasn't been deemed a business contract yet then one partner won't lose more than half of their chit if they get divorced, regardless of the actual contribution in the marriage.
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Hall of Famer [24119]
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Re: Yep
Dec 16, 2021, 1:01 PM
[ in reply to Yep ] |
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Why does it have to just be two adults?
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All-In [42197]
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Make it a three way, sure. Let's go!***
Dec 16, 2021, 2:34 PM
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Sure, just ask Lindsay***
Dec 16, 2021, 10:16 AM
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All-In [26968]
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First one must answer the question:
Dec 16, 2021, 10:18 AM
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What does it mean to be "gay"?
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Oculus Spirit [83133]
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Re: First one must answer the question:
Dec 16, 2021, 10:24 AM
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...of, relating to, or characterized by sexual or romantic attraction to people of one's same sex. Plus, to commit the sin, I guess you have to go through with it and have sex with someone of the same sex.
I guess many have romantic attractions to the same sex but never follow through.
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All-In [26968]
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I don't think being tempted by or attracted to
Dec 16, 2021, 10:27 AM
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anything is a sin.
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Rock Defender [54]
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I think you would have a relatively hard time justifying
Dec 16, 2021, 10:35 AM
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that sex between two married men is a sin anyways. The New Testament is relatively, if not exclusively, silent on the issue of homosexual relations, and compared to the extent to which the New Testament talks about sins of money and hate, it seems to be non-issue. Most of the opposition to homosexuality and the act itself is Old Testament based, which while the New Testament does not make the Old Testament obsolete, it is rather radical change of how we view sin and faith. Not to mention the historical and social context of Old Testament "sins" dilutes the emphasis we put on the OT passages about homosexuality.
But, I really appreciate and respect the nuance you make here. You don't see much of that.
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All-In [26968]
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The quantity of references is irrelevant.
Dec 16, 2021, 10:42 AM
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If the Bible says something just once, that's enough.
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All-In [46825]
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Have you ever sat in a seat that was once occupied
Dec 16, 2021, 10:44 AM
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by a mensurating woman?
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All-In [26968]
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I've never asked.***
Dec 16, 2021, 10:49 AM
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All-In [46825]
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You might have lived in sin and not known it
Dec 16, 2021, 10:49 AM
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better repent now. Just in case
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Rock Defender [54]
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Yes and no.
Dec 16, 2021, 10:46 AM
[ in reply to The quantity of references is irrelevant. ] |
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It would establish it as a sin, but I've been through many a sermon that emphasize the importance of being mindful of money-based sins precisely on how often it is mentioned in the New Testament. Being mentioned less may not make it less of a sin, but it certainly suggests the danger of that sin to one's soul is lessened.
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All-In [26968]
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One sin, any sin, is an equal offense to God as any other.
Dec 16, 2021, 10:48 AM
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It's not a matter of degrees...it's binary. 1 or 0.
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All-In [46825]
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Oh man, I hope you have never eaten shellfish***
Dec 16, 2021, 10:49 AM
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Rock Defender [54]
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All-In [26968]
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I think that's mainly about societal context.
Dec 16, 2021, 10:54 AM
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Not about quality or quantity of Biblical references.
How many sins, even if they are only supposed sins, are a point of strong contention in society about whether it is a sin or not?
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Rock Defender [54]
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That's my point. The weight given to homosexuality by
Dec 16, 2021, 10:57 AM
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Christians is a result of personal prejudice.
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All-In [26968]
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If my child talks back to me a lot, and only occasionally
Dec 16, 2021, 10:59 AM
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runs in the house, do you think I should give equal time to both of those transgressions, in my interactions with my child?
Or, maybe I should say, if my child doesn't think that talking back is wrong, but recognizes that running in the house is, do you think I should spend the same time talking about each one to my child?
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All-In [46825]
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Why don't you stone him? That's what the bible says to do***
Dec 16, 2021, 11:02 AM
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Lot o points [155976]
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You sure are evangelizing a lot for a nonbeliever.***
Dec 16, 2021, 11:36 AM
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All-In [26968]
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He's not evangelizing, he's mocking.
Dec 16, 2021, 11:43 AM
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Which means his replies shouldn't be taken seriously (they aren't by me, anyway).
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Lot o points [155976]
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No, I agree, but the mocking is done in an attempt (in his
Dec 16, 2021, 1:38 PM
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mind) to discredit Christianity. He seems more invested in proving that it's "fake" to all of us than we are proving that it's real to him, thus my comment about him proselytizing.
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All-In [31908]
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But he's soooo good at it....
Dec 16, 2021, 2:41 PM
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eyeroll.gif
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Rock Defender [54]
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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All-In [26968]
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OK. Basically ad hominem.***
Dec 16, 2021, 11:42 AM
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Oculus Spirit [83133]
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All-In [34600]
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Legend [18026]
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Oculus Spirit [93684]
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Lot o points [155976]
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Even if it is a sin,
Dec 16, 2021, 10:40 AM
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I don’t believe the act of sinning nullifies one’s status as a Christian, or it would be the world’s smallest club.
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Rock Defender [54]
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It is an argument fundamentally influenced by one's personal
Dec 16, 2021, 10:44 AM
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prejudice against homosexuality. The common refrain from these types of Christians is "a sin is a sin" until it comes to homosexuality, in which being gay become some sort of sin monstrosity. I suppose they argue that being gay and married perpetuates the sin, but again, there are plenty of sins Christians live with and tolerate, personally, for all their lives.
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: It is an argument fundamentally influenced by one's personal
Dec 16, 2021, 10:15 PM
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Agree. Being gay didn't even make God's top 10 list. Just ask Moses.
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All-In [26968]
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The argument hinges on one question,
Dec 16, 2021, 10:46 AM
[ in reply to Even if it is a sin, ] |
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and it's a doozy, that has been a point of contention for as long as there has been a Christian religion:
Is repentance a requirement for salvation?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Agreed. And I am in no way prepared to argue either way
Dec 16, 2021, 10:49 AM
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at a scholarship level deserving of that debate.
The only way I look at it is that if that were the case, we would all be ###### because none of us go to the grave with all of our sins confessed. I like to think that our belief in Christ is powerful enough to break through a technicality that would otherwise keep us separated from God; basically, that God's grace is not a technicality.
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All-In [26968]
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Jesus said,
Dec 16, 2021, 10:52 AM
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"Nay, but except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish".
One can't argue that Jesus said that, if they believe the Bible. One can argue that He is talking about repenting only from the sin of unbelief.
There are many references in the New Testament that preach repentance for salvation.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Confessing each individual sin before we die is impossible.
Dec 16, 2021, 10:55 AM
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Confessing our sins before we know we are going to die is likewise impossible.
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All-In [26968]
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Strawman.
Dec 16, 2021, 10:56 AM
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Repentance is not confessing individual sins. Biblical repentance is a change of mind, a change of direction.
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Rock Defender [54]
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So what it comes down to is whether a man in a gay marriage
Dec 16, 2021, 11:00 AM
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is leading a lifestyle of sin, in which a repentant heart is required?
In the context of the New Testament, I just don't see it.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Strawman.
Dec 16, 2021, 10:22 PM
[ in reply to Strawman. ] |
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Prodigal you nailed it. That is repentance and that is what is required of us for salvation.
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Lot o points [155976]
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Oculus Spirit [93684]
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Repentence is a process over time.
Dec 16, 2021, 10:24 PM
[ in reply to The argument hinges on one question, ] |
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We repent daily, 'I die daily,' according to TAP. I think asking Jesus to be LORD of one's life and heart is a reasonable measure of repentance for a newbie.
I don't know if I really understood repentance when I got saved but I did ask Christ to save me and agreed to try and do and be what He wanted. Wouldn't that qualify as repentance?
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Repentence is a process over time.
Dec 16, 2021, 10:30 PM
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You said you try to do and be what Christ wanted. Yes, that is repentance. Prodigal said earlier that true repentance is a change of direction. Jesus always asked people not only to believe but to follow , or to turn, to leave their old ways and old life behind.
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Oculus Spirit [93684]
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Re: Repentence is a process over time.
Dec 18, 2021, 4:01 PM
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Prodigal is correct. In order to even address God we have to turn toward Him. Please consider that is spiritual form. As a lost person we do not face God. We, in our lives face and move toward serving ourselves. We and that which we love is the focus of our passions, attentions and efforts.
Prodigal has a knack for saying huge volumes in few words.
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110%er [9035]
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Re: This deserves it's own thread. Can someone who is openly gay
Dec 16, 2021, 10:52 AM
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yes
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110%er [9035]
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Re: This deserves it's own thread. Can someone who is openly gay
Dec 16, 2021, 11:04 AM
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"gays can actually fly for short distances"-Democrat Ilhan Abdullahi Omar
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110%er [5694]
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Re: This deserves it's own thread. Can someone who is openly gay
Dec 16, 2021, 11:10 AM
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The United Methodist Church is in the progress of splitting (again) over this.
I was actually wondering the virtually the same thing the other day...can the gay person not ask for forgiveness (if being gay is "officially" a sin) and then be on equal footing with the rest of us asking for forgiveness for all our sins???
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Oculus Spirit [93684]
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What is this "equal footing," of which you speak?
Dec 20, 2021, 5:35 PM
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I fear we naturally draw lines between which sins that we allow and which we do not allow. That is a presumptuous sin as addressed in Psa 19. That's good stuff, try it today.
When The Lord gets you good and corner up and you think He has freed you from committing most of your sin it's time to memorize the entire chapter. It's more humbling than having your wife leave you for another woman.
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All-TigerNet [13159]
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Re: This deserves it's own thread. Can someone who is openly gay
Dec 16, 2021, 11:23 AM
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No. Only closeted gays can be.
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Rock Defender [54]
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This is a joke because there is no Biblical basis for this
Dec 16, 2021, 11:27 AM
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position.
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All-In [42197]
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Lemme throw this monkeywrench in here
Dec 16, 2021, 11:38 AM
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Homosexuality wasn't a sin in the Bible until very recently; the Leviticus passage covered pedophilia and was changed in a bad translation crossover.
So going back to the original texts, it ain't a sin.
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Oculus Spirit [93684]
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You're not exactly correct about that.
Dec 16, 2021, 10:17 PM
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Leviticus chpt 18 vs:
20 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
BTW, I know you know Leviticus means law and that the law was given to Moses just after the Children of Israel's exit from Egypt. In fact, it is the third chapter of the bible written about 2K years after Adam.
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All-In [42197]
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And again...
Dec 17, 2021, 7:46 AM
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The passage you cite originally said with boys (children), not mankind, in earlier translations. Same with the passage in 1 Corinthians. The original translations addressed pedophiles, not homosexuals.
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Oculus Spirit [93684]
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I'm interest to learn how your source of Bible...
Dec 20, 2021, 2:20 PM
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explanations deals with Sodom and Gomorrah.
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Commissioner [955]
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Re: This deserves it's own thread. Can someone who is openly gay
Dec 16, 2021, 1:35 PM
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I'm for gay marriage, let everyone be miserable and lose half their stuff when they break up, just like the rest of us.
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110%er [5694]
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Re: This deserves it's own thread. Can someone who is openly gay
Dec 17, 2021, 7:13 AM
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Actually, one of the reasons I support gay marriage is estate law. Does not seem fair to preclude gay couples the same advantages as man-woman marriages.
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Oculus Spirit [93684]
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Nothing is a one sentence answer for me, you know.
Dec 16, 2021, 10:08 PM
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Yes, being gay is no different that being a fornicator or adulterer. A sinner is a sinner and we are all sinners. Some of us are saved by Faith in Jesus and some are not. If a gay person is saved by faith in the Blood of The LORD, he's as saved as a virgin nun or the Apostles. There is no degree to sin nor salvation. Christ death on the cross covers 'the multitude of sins.'
We confuse and confound ourselves by thinking the sins we commit are lesser sins than those of our neighbors. We can and should hate homosexuality because it is an abomination to God but we have the same obligation to love homosexuals as God loves them. That's a lot, enough in fact to die to wash away their sin just as He died for us.
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Team Captain [499]
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If it was a sin to be straight, could you
Dec 17, 2021, 6:46 AM
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become gay to make God happy?
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Oculus Spirit [93684]
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Before I respond to that let me clear something up...
Dec 18, 2021, 3:42 PM
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which confuses and truly confounds Christians, especially those to whom faith is new and those who rarely or barely read the Bible. 'It's God who works in us both to will and do of His good pleasure.' That's the best I can remember it. I recommend everyone look it up in Philippians. That tells me I don't quit sin, God quits me of sin or rather delivers me. The same goes for you and anyone else who thinks they can conquer the sin in their life by sheer will.
So how is sin conquered? First, on the cross Christ died that we might be free from the law of sin and death. He removed the ordinances against us. For that to which a man submits is his master. Second we learn how not to sin. Anyone interested in learning might try the 119th chapter of Psalms.
To your question; in my power I could not love a man as I loved my children's mother, now passed to the next life. If I had no desire to be with a man I would ask of God why being with a man could have brought me those seven children that I have and those 15 grandchildren. I would do it to understand and give thanks that Adam was joined with Eve rather than Steve, that Bob, my father was married to Ruth, my mother, rather than Bruce who I don't know.
There is a certain order to God's design, wouldn't you say?
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All-Conference [436]
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Re: If it was a sin to be straight, could you
Dec 19, 2021, 11:08 AM
[ in reply to If it was a sin to be straight, could you ] |
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Great comment and spot-on for analogy. My step-sister "chose to love" a man after "living in the sin of homosexuality" during high school and college. She married that man and now has 2 very small children (go figure). So, in essence, she choked out her feelings and emotions based on what the book says. I wonder how this will end? *Of note, graduated top in her class, both HS and College - mensa certified and an incredibly talented artist. Now, professional baby-maker. So, in her mind, she "chose" to be heterosexual. Is she though? Wouldn't god know (if so) that she's still gay? How does that square in the end? Thanks
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All-American [590]
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Re: If it was a sin to be straight, could you
Dec 20, 2021, 10:15 AM
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Unfortunately she will come out again as lesbian in the future. Likely after the kids are old enough to take care of themselves and she can stop living in her sham of a marriage.
Ever seen "Pray Away" on Netflix? That is going to be her life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs
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All-Conference [436]
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Re: If it was a sin to be straight, could you
Dec 20, 2021, 11:10 AM
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Thank you for taking the time to respond. That is also my fear (for her, her husband and children). They are stationed in Germany right now and CV19 has kept them pretty well homebound throughout her second pregnancy - so, we'll see how things go once they able to "move about the cabin", so to speak. Anyway, I don't know how long the charade will last, but in the end, a lot of folks will pay for the intellectual dishonesty. **2 sons within 2 years of marriage - so far. I will watch that on Netflix - thanks!
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Oculus Spirit [93684]
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Re: If it was a sin to be straight, could you
Dec 20, 2021, 5:03 PM
[ in reply to Re: If it was a sin to be straight, could you ] |
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Maybe she didn't choke out anything. I do not know your step sister but I am a professional on sin. I've been a practicing sinner for well over 50 years now being that I'll be 70 next summer.
I wonder how many times I choked out a sin and had it return to life again. We might suppress sin for a bit but sin is not put to death in the heart. However, God removes sin by using his word which is the sword of His Spirit. The Bible tells us that God's word is sharper than any double edged sword.
What we have is God working in us to carve out sin by tearing down the stronghold of sin we've built in our heart. He fills the void left with that very Spirit which had done all the heavy lifting.
It's very simple, one gets in God's word by reading, studying and memorizing parts which God impresses us are important to us. It is God who works in us to will and to do his good pleasure.
I wonder, did your step sister tell you she choked out sin or is that just your impression of how her life changed?
Let me clarify my position on homosexuality. I was teaching a Sunday school class and one of the lessons I chose was on faith. I did all my research with nothing but my KJV Thompson Chain reference Bible.
In my studies I came to understand how no one is more or less righteous than any other. I do not think I'm better than anyone. Not robbers, rapist, murders or child abusers. Anyone who thinks they are better than another is deceived from their pride and self-righteousness. I came to realize this after being separated from my oldest daughter for 25 years. Within a year of that lesson I met with her and her female live in lover.
We went to dinner and they invited one of their friends who was a young man a bit younger than they. We selected a booth in which to dine and the ladies wanted to sit together. After a few minutes of sitting with that guy I asked if I could change seats with one of the ladies. They all looked quite shocked that I wasn't satisfied and accused me of worrying that someone might think I was gay.
I told them plainly and without jest, 'I don't care if people think I'm gay, I just don't want them to think I'm a pedophile. I am not one to look down upon another. God doesn't allow that of me.
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All-Conference [436]
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Re: If it was a sin to be straight, could you
Dec 20, 2021, 6:29 PM
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You should at least consider that there are others that are in tune with the truth and observation - you do not have any more license to speak to reality than anyone else. Frankly, this comment was not what I expected from you, in particular, considering there should (possibly? expected?) be an element of trust (from you) that: if I am going to take the time to explain a situation in this forum, to someone that has been kind enough to give thought and reply - then you, as an interlocutor, would understand that the information is not pulled from the sky.
"I wonder, did your step sister tell you she choked out sin or is that just your impression of how her life changed?"
My step-sister said these words to my face and put them in writing via email - so, no impression or interpretation required. I could share the emails with you, but that's silly. So, I'll ask again - what do you think will become of 30 yo female that proclaimed very clearly (at 25) and with examples, that she 1) lived in the "sin" of homosexuality for years, 2) when asked if she loves the man that courted her, she replied "I chose to" and 3) subsequently married this man and had 2 kids in 2 years with 1 and 2 giving crystal clear explanation of YEARS of her life. She, essentially, fled/abandoned internships at Pixar and Disney to return home and teach kindergarten at her local church. Keep in mind, she had the world by the tail and could have done most anything. And, according to her (again, her words), she had been "courted" by a man at church that she thought "was nice" and would "make a good father" - and the rest is history.
So yes, she pushed it down, choked it out and in my opinion (key) continues to do so based on indoctrination, guilt and what the book says. Let's try this again - what do you think about the fact that this happened? I'm not angry with you (or any gods) - I want an honest response that doesn't include scripture or reference to what you refer to as sin.
Lastly, your comments about not having a problem with homosexuality, etc. - me neither, but the "why" of this makes all the difference.
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Oculus Spirit [93684]
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Re: If it was a sin to be straight, could you
Dec 21, 2021, 9:19 AM
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Last things first.
My explanation of my position on homosexuality was to ensure you understand that condemnation of homosexuality is not a condemnation of homosexuals. I insist that I do not fall into the category with those who think they are better than another because God delivered them from a particular sin. We all draw lines between what we allow and provide to do and what we can or will refuse to do. That is the common practice of the proud of which I bear guilt. My line has changed from its previous position. It is now drawn at the Cross of Christ. Everyone on one side of that line is righteous and holy, the rest of us are over here, on this side of the line,.
I don't know what will happen with your sister but I can say this with certainty, to God nothing is impossible. God can deliver us from sinful desire if we allow him to expands his occupation of our heart. God does not wave a magic wand over us and make us able to live sinless. God slowly and meticulously tears down the strongholds of sin we harbor; with me it has been and is one at a time through a delicate process.
I say this things in hope that if you can understand or begin to understand me you might gain some insight into the plight of your sister for you seem to have great concern for her happiness and well being.
This is how God works in me to will and do his good pleasure. I read the Bible systematically in several places each day. I memorize verses and chapters, study the history of the Children of Israel and their fleshly plight to which I relate my spiritual journey. As God led them from Egypt to the land which he had promised them I can more see how he has, is and will lead me to the land of uprightness.
I present God's holy word here because it is my strength, by it I am convicted of sin through faith in God by his spirit I am delivered. If there is any confusion over that statement bear with me for I will further explain.
Without the God's guidance I would be lost, as a blind goose in a snowstorm I would be feeling my way through life. The Bible is the Word of God, it is a light unto my feet and a lamp unto my path.
What do I think will happen to your sister? The same thing that happens to any who put their trust in God. 'Our fathers trusted in thee, they trusted and were delivered. They cried unto thee and were delivered, they trusted and were not confounded.' Jesus the Christ said those words while hanging on that cross. He came into this world to destroy the work of the devil. To those who belong to God sin has no power for we die in Christ unto sin that we may live unto HIM!
Pardon the scripture references, it was not my intent to subject you to anything but my opinion however, God's law, testimony, statutes, commandment and judgements are my opinion. His word is my opinion. How else might one see his way?
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All-Conference [436]
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Re: If it was a sin to be straight, could you
Dec 20, 2021, 6:32 PM
[ in reply to Re: If it was a sin to be straight, could you ] |
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You should at least consider that there are others that are in tune with the truth and observation - you do not have any more license to speak to reality than anyone else. Frankly, this comment was not what I expected from you, in particular, considering there should (possibly? expected?) be an element of trust (from you) that: if I am going to take the time to explain a situation in this forum, to someone that has been kind enough to give thought and reply - then you, as an interlocutor, would understand that the information is not pulled from the sky.
"I wonder, did your step sister tell you she choked out sin or is that just your impression of how her life changed?"
My step-sister said these words to my face and put them in writing via email - so, no impression or interpretation required. I could share the emails with you, but that's silly. So, I'll ask again - what do you think will become of 30 yo female that proclaimed very clearly (at 25) and with examples, that she 1) lived in the "sin" of homosexuality for years, 2) when asked if she loves the man that courted her, she replied "I chose to" and 3) subsequently married this man and had 2 kids in 2 years with 1 and 2 giving crystal clear explanation of YEARS of her life. She, essentially, fled/abandoned internships at Pixar and Disney to return home and teach kindergarten at her local church. Keep in mind, she had the world by the tail and could have done most anything. And, according to her (again, her words), she had been "courted" by a man at church that she thought "was nice" and would "make a good father" - and the rest is history.
*Meant to add - she took off to the Philippines for bible school after 2 years teaching kindergarten - came back from that experience almost zombie-like. From here, she went "all in" with the courtship.
So yes, she pushed it down, choked it out and in my opinion (key) continues to do so based on indoctrination, guilt and what the book says. Let's try this again - what do you think about the fact that this happened? I'm not angry with you (or any gods) - I want an honest response that doesn't include scripture or reference to what you refer to as sin.
Lastly, your comments about not having a problem with homosexuality, etc. - me neither, but the "why" of this makes all the difference.
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All-In [42197]
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Re: Nothing is a one sentence answer for me, you know.
Dec 17, 2021, 7:48 AM
[ in reply to Nothing is a one sentence answer for me, you know. ] |
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Yes, being gay is no different that being a fornicator or adulterer.
No, it's not the same.
We can and should hate homosexuality because it is an abomination to God but we have the same obligation to love homosexuals as God loves them.
You're only hating it because you have adopted the translation that fits your worldview. The original biblical works did not condemn homosexuality. This was changed over the years by the churches.
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Oculus Spirit [93684]
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It is not changed in my Church.
Dec 18, 2021, 3:57 PM
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I am a member in fair standing with The Church which is comprised of all believer and which compose the Body of Christ. We aren't Catholic, Baptist or any other denomination. We don't all meet at the same place but many of us are Catholic, many Baptist, many other denominations, but we all are Christian.
I don't speak for those who rationalize away sin, those who search until they find a way to change the truth into a lie so the membership rolls of their church can grow and they can collect more money to build new dwelling in which to worship, those who think that gain is godliness.
I don't need other's interpretation of the Bible and I refuse one. I have the Spirit of God to guild me. He is careful with my heart and my understand. I trust in Him only.
You believe what you want to believe, others here can do the same, changing your hearts to believe the truth is above my paygrade.
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Oculus Spirit [93684]
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Re: It is not changed in my Church.
Dec 18, 2021, 4:07 PM
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Roman's 1
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: It is not changed in my Church.
Dec 18, 2021, 5:39 PM
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Becoming a Christian means a change of direction, turning away from the old life and dying to self. Anything other than this is not true repentance and does not grant salvation. Many people who claim to be Christians read the Bible and ask “what can I do, what is permitted?” We should be reading “what should I do?” That will lead us in a directional change. Christ made the “what should I do “ very clear.
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Oculus Spirit [93684]
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The Apostle Paul addressed that issue...
Dec 19, 2021, 12:20 AM
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in his letter to the church at Rome also. Read the 6th chapter. The New Testament was addressed to the churches. None of the topic covered in those letters was off the cuff. When you read it try to visualize Paul knowing of the sin in those churches and delivering to them a message from God.
I agree with you. I have sinned since I got saved but never did I do it out of ignorance. As you say, we know what to do.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: The Apostle Paul addressed that issue...
Dec 19, 2021, 6:24 AM
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I agree , Romans 6 answers the original question in this thread without a doubt. The question is also answered in scriptures too numerous to list here. There is a growing and very dangerous teaching among churches that because of grace we can go on living any way we choose because we have checked the box and made a reservation in Heaven. Without a heart and directional change that reservation was never made and will never be honored.
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Oculus Spirit [93684]
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Re: The Apostle Paul addressed that issue...
Dec 20, 2021, 2:18 PM
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One has to either ignore a lot of scripture, rationalize and categorize it as not important or be taught by someone who is no more than a teacher capitalizing on God's gift to teach.
Paul wrote to Timothy...from memory so look it up to see if it's accurate...All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction and instructions in righteousness that a man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good work. I think it's it's in one of Paul's letters to Tim in a third chapter.
It's easy not to read the Bible regularly but it's just as easy to form the habit of reading it daily if you put God's word in your heart, memorize it. Elsewise, the word falls on hard or unfertile ground and one will soon forget what he has read.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: The Apostle Paul addressed that issue...
Dec 20, 2021, 2:38 PM
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Yep 2 Timothy 3:16. The problem is that many people don’t believe scripture is God breathed. Many think it’s just ancient text of man. How wrong that assumption is.
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All-Conference [436]
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Re: It is not changed in my Church.
Dec 19, 2021, 11:16 AM
[ in reply to It is not changed in my Church. ] |
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"You believe what you want to believe, others here can do the same, changing your hearts to believe the truth is above my paygrade."
Above is not how this works - specifically the first part of the claim. No one believes what they "want" to believe. Beliefs are based on evidence and resulting confidence - not choice. To make the point, I do not choose to "believe" in gravity. The scale tips once sufficient evidence is provided - for me, I am most influenced by evidence that comports with reality.
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Oculus Spirit [93684]
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As you say...
Dec 20, 2021, 2:33 PM
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so have you been promised. The gift of salvation is free to you but does not come without a price. The only begotten Son of God gave himself to cover the price of your sin.
'For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life.' You are choosing and will continue to choose whether or not to believe it, just as all Christians. It is true, I testify. I know it is true because the Spirit of The Living God resides in my heart. 'For by grace are ye saved through faith.'
I have to desire to antagonize you but wish so that you would realize the truth and declare it to you. Jesus the Christ is come in the flesh. He came into this world 2K years ago and sent His Spirit to abide with those who believe upon Him. By the grace and mercy of God do I know the truth. It is not of man that I received the Truth but by the will of the Almighty God to whom I belong.
He is as sure in my heart as the sun rising in the morning.
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