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All-In [26514]
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DAY 159
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Mar 14, 2024, 12:24 PM
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Six American hostages are still held by Hamas.
Let's Go Brandon !
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All-TigerNet [11207]
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Re: DAY 159
Mar 14, 2024, 12:28 PM
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Since they don’t eat pork, I’m offended for them that half of their name is ham.
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Heisman Winner [137981]
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So we're at just over 31,000 Palestinians killed, of which
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Mar 14, 2024, 12:28 PM
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over 70% are women and children (and presumably, not Hamas). Do the 6 living Americans matter more, or have more value than those 31,000 dead, simply by virtue of being American? What if you found out the American hostages are of Middle Eastern descent? Does their value drop incrementally?
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: So we're at just over 31,000 Palestinians killed, of which
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Mar 14, 2024, 12:43 PM
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If the hostages are non-white, then they would be moved into one of the threads about whites getting assaulted by non-whites. If they were originally immigrants, they would get moved to the Welcome threads.
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All-In [26514]
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Heisman Winner [137981]
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Read what you typed again, slowly.
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Mar 14, 2024, 12:40 PM
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Palestinian women and children are not Hamas. They are civilians. They are victims. I realize your world makes more sense if you can broadbrush all 1.2 million Palestinians as "Hamas Enemies", but that's just not the case.
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All-In [26514]
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Read what I said ... if Hamas did nothing, they would still be alive.
Mar 14, 2024, 12:46 PM
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There would be no war.
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Heisman Winner [137981]
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You think what's happening in Palestine is a "war"?
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Mar 14, 2024, 12:48 PM
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It's roughly the same kind of war that beef cattle have with ranchers.
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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Ah... We can at least agree on one thing.***
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Mar 14, 2024, 12:52 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Heisman Winner [137981]
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What in the world kind of attitude is THAT?
Mar 14, 2024, 2:17 PM
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If they don't care about innocent people, why should we?
I dunno, maybe because we're civilized?
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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An attitude that is facing the reality of the situation
Mar 14, 2024, 2:33 PM
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If you've got a neighbor who repeatedly shoots your kids with a pellet gun every time they leave the house, but every time you come out to confront him he hides behind his wife....How long will it take you to not really GAF about the wife anymore, either? Maybe she's innocent, helll he probably beats her too...but at some point that's no longer your concern. Or it shouldn't be if you value the safety of yourself and your children.
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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"Repeatedly"...? Ain't gonna happen. (and I don't own a pellet gun)***
Mar 14, 2024, 2:38 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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I guess I could make the analogy more accurate by saying he's also
Mar 14, 2024, 2:48 PM
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accidentally shooting his own family on occasion, and taking cover in the treehouse that his kids are actively playing in. Of course, as soon as someone retaliates he's going to cry the loudest.
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All-In [34113]
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Based on what we've seen from Hamas, it's a pretty good bet that
Mar 14, 2024, 3:03 PM
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there are no longer hostages....I mean, they might still be ###### the dead bodies, but they're no longer alive. Besides, we've killed Americans in drone strikes before.
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All-In [34113]
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You didn't quite say you're ok with it, but it sounds like you would be***
Mar 14, 2024, 3:36 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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It's obviously situationally dependent. In this case you A) Have to trust
Mar 14, 2024, 4:01 PM
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Hamas that the hostages are still alive and B) Trust that they won't kill them anyway once they get what they want.
Given their history of being...well, Hamas, the chances of getting back hostages seems pretty slim. Maybe if Biden would quit freeing money up for Iran we wouldn't find ourselves in this position in the first place.
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110%er [7210]
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Has everyone already forgotten
Mar 14, 2024, 4:10 PM
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that there was a temporary ceasefire in November and Hamas released a bunch of hostages? Just say you don't care about the hostages.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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They had a ceasefire before October 7th too, how did that work out?
Mar 14, 2024, 4:14 PM
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Just admit you are a Hamas sympathizer.
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110%er [7210]
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Again, maybe Hamas shouldn't use schools and hospitals for military
Mar 14, 2024, 4:29 PM
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operations? But you go ahead and keep lapping up that Hamas propaganda.
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110%er [7210]
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Hamas isn't in the West Bank***
Mar 14, 2024, 4:31 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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They absolutely are***
Mar 14, 2024, 4:38 PM
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110%er [7210]
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Really giving the game away
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Mar 14, 2024, 5:12 PM
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Just say anybody or anything you don't like is Hamas and it's a license to do anything you want. It's why Bibi funds Hamas and needs them, as long as they exist, he has a blank check for crimes against Palestinians.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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So you dont think Hamas is present in West Bank?***
Mar 14, 2024, 5:52 PM
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Legend [18026]
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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LOL, maybe you should tell Hamas they're depriving people of their
Mar 14, 2024, 4:06 PM
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constitutional rights. I'm sure they'll make it right.
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Legend [18026]
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I'm talking about the argument you're using in your example...
Mar 14, 2024, 4:21 PM
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It can be read as an argument against due process in our own country, which I doubt you meant to make. It's the danger in trying to "dumb down" arguments with analogies.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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What obligation would you have to provide due process in that analogy?
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Mar 14, 2024, 4:35 PM
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Israel certainly isn't obligated to give Hamas due process.
In regards to the hostages, I certainly wouldn't expect or be OK with the US govt. going in and knowingly killing US citizens, but under these circumstances it would be understandable if it happened. Particularly knowing Hamas's tactics of putting innocents into harms way for PR/propaganda purposes.
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Legend [18026]
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In your analogy using the neighbor, your argument reads against due process..
Mar 14, 2024, 4:55 PM
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so you're arguing against any obligation to provide it, so the answer would be "none." We have laws against doing what you're arguing "going through the wife" or "disregarding the wife" to get to the perp. Or to read into the metaphor more, the wife represents our "laws" that the perpetrator is hiding behind that you're saying can be harmed as long as the ends justify those means.
I have no idea how to fix the Palestine/Hamas/Isreal situation but I think we should be on the side of less innocent women/children/men being killed.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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I think youre looking way too deep in an effort to argue
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Mar 14, 2024, 6:05 PM
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I take it you would have been against dropping a nuke on Japan and instead dragging out the war? Sometimes you’ve got to do what’s necessary to prevent any further damage to your people/country, and that might require some collateral damage. Which is what the analogy was illustrating.
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Legend [18026]
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And I think you're not looking deep enough at what you're saying...
Mar 14, 2024, 6:44 PM
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Big difference between expecting collateral damage and requiring collateral damage to achieve a goal. And in your analogy, neither would have to happen to the wife if you follow the law which your analogy can be taken is arguing against. Now I'm just repeating myself...
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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What happens when following the law doesnt solve the problem?
Mar 14, 2024, 8:37 PM
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Surely you don’t think another negotiated ceasefire or “two state solution” is going to keep another attack from happening? Or continuing with the analogy, you’ve called the cops a dozen times, he’s gone to jail a couple of times, yet the attacks persist. Then what?
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Legend [18026]
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First, glad we've moved away from the wife part of the analogy.
Mar 14, 2024, 9:16 PM
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Second, I'm not sure what you think you're allowed to do in your newly built analogy, but it's not "murder him first."
My argument isn't even how your analogy works with the Israel/Palestine violence, it was to simply point out how the illogic of it extended to laws and due process in our own country.
Third, yes, in the short term, a ceasefire (because it is the definition) would keep another attack from happening until it is broken (or ends). For the longer term, the two-state solution seems the most likely option, but no one thinks that will be a simple or complete fix. Too much history and bad blood in that region.
Is your solution for Israel to just wipe out all Palestinian people (based on your new analogy)?
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CU Guru [1579]
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Re: First, glad we've moved away from the wife part of the analogy.
Mar 14, 2024, 10:00 PM
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Was there not a ceasefire in place before 10/7?
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All-TigerNet [13155]
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CU Guru [1071]
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Re: So we're at just over 31,000 Palestinians killed, of which
Mar 14, 2024, 6:13 PM
[ in reply to So we're at just over 31,000 Palestinians killed, of which ] |
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over 70% are women and children (and presumably, not Hamas). Do the 6 living Americans matter more, or have more value than those 31,000 dead, simply by virtue of being American? What if you found out the American hostages are of Middle Eastern descent? Does their value drop incrementally?
Said by a man who gets his results of deaths and women and children from what is provided by Hamas
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CU Guru [1579]
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110%er [7210]
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Isn't Hamas offering to release all hostages as part of a ceasefire?
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Mar 14, 2024, 12:40 PM
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At this point, Israel has killed more Israeli hostages by bombing and shooting them.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Oh yeah, let's just trust the group that came in and slaughtered a bunch
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Mar 14, 2024, 1:57 PM
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of innocent people lol. I'm sure they'll make good on their word. There probably aren't any more hostages that are alive anyway, and if they are they're wishing they were dead.
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Orange Blooded [4790]
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Re: DAY 159
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Mar 14, 2024, 12:41 PM
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How dare you mention Americans being held hostage by a group that despises our country. Leftist trash, who would have no opinion whatsoever on their dismemberment, are too busy cheering for their captives to eliminate Israel from existence. Hating America/jews and supporting terrorists is what modern leftists do best.
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110%er [5694]
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The peer pressure in
Mar 14, 2024, 12:52 PM
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the echo chamber has become unbearable for many lefties who are now convinced Hamas is good and Muslims were living in Israel in 10,000 BC so they must be legit which gives Hamas free reign to rape, murder, and plunder.
Thinks the idiot whose house sits smack in the middle of original native American territory.
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110%er [7210]
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Did you just compare Palestinians to Native Americans on purpose?
Mar 14, 2024, 12:55 PM
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Or do you think the Native Americans were the bad guys?
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