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All-In [44200]
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How good are our wide receivers?
Sep 5, 2016, 1:06 AM
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We know that Williams is an outstanding player, and Renfrow is excellent as well. But I must admit that I just don't see much consistency from Scott, Cain, McCloud, etc. I'm not doubting their talent, but after hearing so much last year and this year about how amazing our receivers are, I guess I expected more. I didn't see anything last night to change my mind.
Nobody on our current roster seems close to what Sammy Watkins was, and I didn't hear all of the chatter then about us being "wide receiver U."
I'm not bashing these guys at all. I know they are highly recruited, but I honestly don't see it when I look at our WRs recently.
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Commissioner [901]
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Re: How good are our wide receivers?
Sep 5, 2016, 1:25 AM
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Dude our wide receivers are great!!! We have several guys on the bench that would start for many Many teams! I think we had a lot of vanilla play calling last night from our OC's just like early last year and most of our guys were just not involved Not named mike Williams
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All-In [44200]
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That begs the question:
Sep 5, 2016, 3:00 AM
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If those other guys are so great, why weren't they involved in the offense? Did Auburn key on them? Did they not get open? Did Watson not see them?
I'm not doubting their recruiting rankings, high school performances, athleticism, or potential. I'm just honestly trying to understand whether they are truly amazing or just have the potential to be.
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Asst Coach [706]
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Re: That begs the question:
Sep 5, 2016, 7:36 AM
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Kevin Steele chose for Auburn's defense to give up Mike Williams. All the other options were mostly covered the most of the night.
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All-In [44200]
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Makes sense, but why can't a covered WR get open sometimes?
Sep 5, 2016, 11:23 AM
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Isn't that what good WRs do? Find a way to get open?
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Heisman Winner [112505]
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CU Guru [1239]
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You included Scott in that list?
Sep 5, 2016, 1:32 AM
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Who was our top receiver last year?
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All-In [44200]
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I did.
Sep 5, 2016, 3:05 AM
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I realize Scott probably wasn't 100% last year, but he didn't jump out at me most games in 2015. He certainly had a few big games, but other times he seemed to be a non-factor. I think he was probably a focus of defenses last year since Williams was injured. He is obviously one of our best WRs, but not to the level of the best in America at this point in his career.
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All-TigerNet [12943]
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Mike Williams is as good at this stage as either
Sep 5, 2016, 1:51 AM
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Sammy or Nuk, strictly from a receiver standpoint... probably closer to Nuk's skillset
You didn't see those other guys last night b/c of AU's pressure... DW got rid of the ball quickly, and looked for MW a ton.
Plus, we ran the ball 44 times....
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CU Guru [1239]
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And it was our first game in a hostile environment.
Sep 5, 2016, 1:53 AM
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Oklahoma, LSU, Notre Dame and UCLA sure hoped they escaped their first game.
Tennessee almost didn't.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: And it was our first game in a hostile environment.
Sep 5, 2016, 5:34 AM
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Granted they lost in triple OT,and on a hostile field
Notre Dame had little problem putting up 37 in regulation.
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110%er [5099]
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Re: How good are our wide receivers?
Sep 5, 2016, 2:02 AM
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Are you joking?
We've got the best WR corp in the nation. A lot of times games dictate the contribution of those WRs...Mike, for some reason, was in a lot of man to man situations...I thought Scott had a very good game. Just be patient man! It's the first quarter of the big game and you want to throw a hailmarry. We've got plenty of time left dude.
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All-In [44200]
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No I'm not joking.
Sep 5, 2016, 3:09 AM
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And I'm not being impatient. I'm simply asking a question based on the cumulative performance of our WRs last year and this year. I think they are talented and athletic, but with an incredible QB I would expect to see us have jaw dropping performances from our WRs as a unit and I feel like we rarely do.
They are in college now. Recruiting rankings and high school film don't matter anymore. I'm hopeful that we will see them take the next step this year.
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Orange Blooded [4960]
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Re: No I'm not joking.
Sep 5, 2016, 3:20 AM
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Nuk and Sammy are #1 WRs I the NFL so top 30 in the world. MW is that type of player. Cain and Thompson have that type of talent. Renfrow and Scott will be in the NFL and almost every WR on our roster can say the same. Most teams have 1 maybe 2 with NFL futures.
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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I happen to agree that our WR's and TE have a tendency to
Sep 5, 2016, 2:23 AM
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round off routes pretty badly. That's why it appears there's little consistent separation for DW to through into.
The notable exception is both Wlliams and Renfrow, though Renfrow appears much better than even M Williams at creating space. Williams is just absolutely great at catching a ball in traffic and with someone hanging on him.
Go back and look at the routes run in the Natty by Renfrow on his 2nd TD and then by G-Hop later in the end zone. The ball to G-Hop is on target but the Bama safety gets a hand on it even coming from behind. That's because the route is flattened out - not run wide enough and has nowhere to go to get back inside. Renfrow later scores on the same pattern because the route is run wider to the boundary and back definitively to the post. The Bama safety never gets to the ball because Renfrow is still running away from the outside move even as the ball arrives at the top of the post.
I feel A Scott is getting better at his intermediate routes - a point of needed improvement noted by Coach Scott last year. He's certainly better than RayRay or D Cain at it, as they appear to rely on speed solely to get open. But I think anyone who thinks A Scott is going pro early is over-hyping his skills.
As for Leggett, he hasn't joked or stutter-stepped a DB/LB yet, and his routes are marshmallows - soft and chewy.
Simply put these guys, along with the OL are depending on DW to win the Natty for them. They're all waiting on him to make the play. I don't necessarily fault effort here, they're just not committed to getting open for him, to "executing". They're relying on scheme and a QB to win the play. And when scheme has not fooled the D, then it's all on DW to thread the needle. And it's gotten so badly consistent that it appears DW is holding the ball too long a lot of times for fear that throwing ahead of the route will just throw into a receiver who's not open. Hence all the "scrambles" in the Natty game... hold, hold, not going to get open, pocket crashing down, run....
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All-In [44200]
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Thank you, this is exactly the type of response I was hoping for.
Sep 5, 2016, 3:12 AM
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Your analysis makes perfect sense based on what I've seen. We really must fix this issue.
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Mascot [21]
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CU Guru [1327]
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Auburn played an "A" game defensively too.
Sep 5, 2016, 4:37 AM
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They played extremely well. Mike Williams is great, but he doesn't have Nuk's hands. Who does? Renfrow is very good and has great hands. So is Scott. Cain showed a ton of promise last year. We have plenty of outstanding WR's.
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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no one said they weren't O/S; I said they don't get open
Sep 5, 2016, 2:55 PM
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consistently.
If you don't believe me then simply follow the facts:
- a year ago the coaches start singing the praises of a walk-on white-kid WR, and saying he's "for real";
- then we start hearing that even Mac Island is having a hard time covering this kid;
- everybody goes "wink, wink, nod, nod" and keeps talking up RayRay and Cain;
- then the kid starts getting playing time and makes a huge TD catch against Louisville to spark the win;
- finally the kid shows out in the Natty, beating a monster recruit safety for not one, but two TD's; and
- now we hear the kid is "DW's safety blanket" and we see a lot of 3rd down passes going his way.
What gives? The kid is 5'10" and 180. Probably a good 4.5 guy. Not blazing but quick in space. What then allows him to be successful?
Hint: separation from the DB at the point in the route where the ball arrives.
Again, go back and watch the Natty, and watch his first TD. He's running a wheel route and he's covered up for the first 2/3 of the route. Then he does something that is borderline offensive pass interference: he puts his hand on the safety and stutter-steps (slow and go). Then when he accelerates again he's stepping away from the safety who up until then was in good position, but who has stuttered with the WR but mistimed the "go" part. Renfrow has 2 yards separation for the last 1/3 of the route and catches a perfectly thrown ball for a TD.
Renfrow. Separation at the point of the route that the ball arrives.
The other receivers all need to work on the preciseness of their routes, but they also need to learn some moves too. Good WR's don't "run the route", they "run the DB".
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CU Guru [1627]
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Re: How good are our wide receivers?
Sep 5, 2016, 4:32 AM
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You cannot be serious right now.
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All-In [44200]
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I am serious. Is it not okay to simply ask a question?
Sep 5, 2016, 11:26 AM
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Again, I'm not debating their recruiting rankings, athleticism, or raw ability. I'm simply asking whether or not they are truly the #1 WR group in college football. If those who know more about the nuances of playing WR in college can explain to me what I should be looking for, then I'm happy to conclude that we are the best. I hope we are, I just honestly don't see our supposed amazingness at WR on a regular basis over the last couple of years.
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CU Guru [1788]
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Re: How good are our wide receivers?
Sep 5, 2016, 4:35 AM
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You a Coot? Scott is a stud as well as Cain... I have no worries!
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All-In [44200]
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What makes them studs?
Sep 5, 2016, 11:32 AM
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Scott:
Against Auburn, he had 3 catches for 30 yards
In 2015, he had almost 1000 yards receiving in 15 games. He had over 900 yards in 2014. He is obviously a good player. I'm not doubting his ability as much as I am his consistency. I felt like we didn't hear from him much in big games last year, but maybe that was because the defense focused on stopping him and/or his injuries.
My post above was more focusing on the others.
Cain:
Against Auburn, he had 1 catch for 1 yard. A non-factor in the receiving game.
In 2015, he had a solid freshman campaign (500 yards receiving) but also got in trouble and was suspended from our national championship game.
Cain is obviously talented, but very raw and undisciplined.
I'm hoping he will take the next step this year, along with McCloud, Thompson, etc.
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All-In [48078]
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McCloud isnt a good wr.
Sep 5, 2016, 7:22 AM
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The rest are great.
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110%er [5099]
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Re: McCloud isnt a good wr.
Sep 5, 2016, 7:38 AM
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What's makes you think that?
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CU Guru [1813]
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I agree with you on Ray Ray.
Sep 5, 2016, 8:32 AM
[ in reply to McCloud isnt a good wr. ] |
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Seems like a good kid but has not impressed me one bit. Last season the game was too fast for him. Supposedly he has caught on. Perhaps if Renfrow wasn't as solid as he is Ray Ray would break out. One thing I might try would be to put him in for Fuller on kickoffs. Still don't get why he's back there unless it's for blocking.
I think our WRs are fine, and the freshmen and next year's commits are going to kick it up another notch.
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CU Guru [1627]
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Re: McCloud isnt a good wr.
Sep 5, 2016, 11:57 AM
[ in reply to McCloud isnt a good wr. ] |
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I can't wait till Ray Ray shows all of you up.
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110%er [6113]
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Commissioner [988]
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Re: How good are our wide receivers?
Sep 5, 2016, 7:31 AM
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No Sammy or Nuke on this roster yet.But the playcalling and schemes were lacking our OC'S looked confused offense looked bad dd based on expectations.Texas offense had an identity last night ours we need to get our stuff soon. HD coach on down.
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CU Guru [1149]
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Re: How good are our wide receivers?
Sep 5, 2016, 8:12 AM
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You know that renfrow is great, even though Scott led us in receiving yards last year?
Did you watch any game last year I beg to ask? Cain is a baller and may be best WR on team . Tell me which one of his touchdowns deep you missed. Obviously you didn't watch the South Carolina game
Thumbs down and I'd give another if I could. #### son
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All-In [44200]
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Renfrew is consistent. None of the others were last year.
Sep 5, 2016, 11:39 AM
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I feel like a truly elite WR is not only talented, but consistent. Scott put up good numbers last year, but one game he would have 150 yards receiving and the next game he would be a non-factor. Cain had some amazing games but also disappeared in others. I realize that this is part of young players developing and growing up, but consistency is also the difference-maker for me when we are talking about good versus great.
Do they run crips routes? Most of our receivers don't.
Do they have consistent hands? We seem to have more drops than we should.
Being consistently reliable, sort of how our elite QB is, is what I also look for in elite WRs. I'm not doubting their talent, but I am asking if our WR unit is truly the best. I'm sure they will continue to improve. They do seem to block well, which is an often under appreciated aspect of their role.
And yes, I watched every game last year. And based on that, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask the question about our WRs. Just because some preseason magazine ranks them #1 doesn't make it so in reality. Our WRs are obviously good, but I don't see them being the best in the nation yet. Hopefully, this season, they will put all doubts to rest.
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Orange Blooded [4985]
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Tay Scott had 93 rec 901 yds and 6 TDs last season
Sep 5, 2016, 1:02 PM
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He was by far the most consistent. Renfrow does run very crisp routes, but he struggles to get separation from the more athletic DBs from time to time.
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CU Guru [1996]
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Re: How good are our wide receivers?
Sep 5, 2016, 11:54 AM
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We got the best recievers in country. Mw was the only one consistently catching the ball. So of course thats who stepped up. But now they know Mw is a big threat and going forward teams will double cover him. Then you will see deon cane and the others really show just how talented they are.
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110%er [8097]
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Dare I say that Watson was "average" Saturday?
Sep 5, 2016, 3:03 PM
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Maybe the problems with passes Saturday were not all the receiver's fault/
I saw a subpar Watson performance. I hope he will stop reading the press clippings and stop listening to Scam Newton. Watson holds the keys to our team's national championship chances. He needs to use them wisely.
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All-In [44200]
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I agree, Watson was part of the problem Saturday.
Sep 5, 2016, 3:12 PM
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I don't think her played poorly by any means, but he certainly didn't play one of his best games. It's hard because we all expect stellar performances out of him, and he is going to have off games too.
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Orange Blooded [2535]
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We played Sat night at Auburn, live...
Sep 5, 2016, 4:46 PM
[ in reply to Dare I say that Watson was "average" Saturday? ] |
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I don't know what you were watching. Against elite talent: Pinpoint passes, back-shoulder throws against "perfect" coverages, key back-breaker runs in third down situations, elusive and not even sacked once in spite of great scheming and prep by the Auburn D, dropped passes that were pinpoint, and an NFL highlight throw for a touchdown - that's just a few things. Sorry you missed the game. Maybe you've been reading too much Nancy stuff.
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110%er [5000]
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Re: We played Sat night at Auburn, live...
Sep 5, 2016, 8:25 PM
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I'm glad someone else raised concerns about our passing game. I didn't want to be the one to start a thread like this.Although there were many positives I didn't see a deep threat who could run by the defense. There might've been scheme and play calling factors but I was concerned that we didn't appear to be able to
complete the bomb.
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All-TigerNet [14233]
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holy overreaction Monday.***
Sep 5, 2016, 3:13 PM
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Legend [17925]
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Reasonable Question. Honest Answer.
Sep 5, 2016, 3:46 PM
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From a high school talent perspective, all were great. From a college perspective, Williams, Cain, Renfrow and Scott are all outstanding and have NFL potential. The younger WR's including Cain and McCloud have great and different skill sets which is not yet developed.
From a pro talent perspective, Mike Williams is ready to be drafted in 2nd round today. By year-end, IMHO a healthy Williams will be 1st round material. Cain has the size and talent to be NFL ready in two yrs and IMHO the second highest ceiling - if he has the discipline, work ethic and perspective. Scott has NFL talent (think Tavon Austin) ... does he have the size and fearlessness to go over the middle? Scott regressed due to injuries last year. Renfrow also has the skill sets in terms of great hands, quickness and toughness. Does he have the size and speed? Maybe with two more seasons at Clemson. The good news is all these WR's have some time to grow physically and emotionally and grow their skill sets - only a healthy Williams should leave after the 2016 season.
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Oculus Spirit [83286]
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After one game when they didn't get many opportunities?
Sep 5, 2016, 3:53 PM
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Are you forgetting what Scott has done for two years and Cain last year?
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