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All-In [26640]
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Walls don't work
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Oct 5, 2023, 9:04 AM
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was the Battle Cry of years gone by ...
Guess Brandon finally got the blueprints from China on their "non-working" wall.
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Hall of Famer [20571]
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Hall of Famer [20571]
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All-In [26640]
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Everyone coming across the Texas border has machinery ?
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Oct 5, 2023, 9:23 AM
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Where are they parking them when they get across ?
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All-In [26640]
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More things that make walls useless
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Oct 5, 2023, 9:33 AM
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explosives
Inter-continental ballistic missiles
Ninjas
Olympic pole vaulters
Biplanes
Catapults
Ground burrowing vermin bitten by radioactive spiders
Did I miss anything ?
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Orange Blooded [4024]
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Re: More things that make walls useless
Oct 5, 2023, 9:36 AM
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Sawzalls
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Legend [17418]
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Lot o points [156310]
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(Its satire)
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Oct 5, 2023, 9:16 AM
[ in reply to Re: Walls don't work ] |
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He’s posting the most common response to Trump when Trump was talking about walls nonstop.
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Oculus Spirit [79508]
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I think that was when I really became aware of how effective
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Oct 5, 2023, 11:47 AM
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Propaganda was on a large part of our population. Anyone who said walls don’t work should feel stupid and bad.
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Lot o points [156310]
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Walls dont work, men can get pregnant,
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Oct 5, 2023, 12:00 PM
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Police should be defunded……
There are a lot of those beliefs that just violate every idea of common sense and basic intelligence.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: I think that was when I really became aware of how effective
Oct 5, 2023, 12:05 PM
[ in reply to I think that was when I really became aware of how effective ] |
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The irony being that Trump literally only used the wall as a talking point to drum up the right. He had no intention of seeing it through or getting mexico to pay for it and as you can see, it doesn't matter. He can say whatever, he can steal documents, he can defraud you, he can try to overturn an election and he's still the GOP front-runner.
So yes, you are correct, propaganda is extremely effective on a large part of our population. Some just can't see that they are the ones who have been propagandized.
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Oculus Spirit [79508]
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Thats a nice deflection, Im assuming you were one of the
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Oct 5, 2023, 1:21 PM
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“Walls don’t work” crowd?
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110%er [7302]
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Re: Thats a nice deflection, Im assuming you were one of the
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Oct 5, 2023, 8:59 PM
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Nah, he’s in the ‘brains don’t work’ crowd.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: Thats a nice deflection, Im assuming you were one of the
Oct 6, 2023, 11:07 AM
[ in reply to Thats a nice deflection, Im assuming you were one of the ] |
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Walls still don’t work and biden didn’t change his position.
You guys are just reading the headline apparently
He tried to reappropriate the wall funds, failed and now is releasing them for their original purpose.
This has nothing to do with liberals suddenly being for the wall
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Legend [18026]
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Oculus Spirit [79508]
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Oh I know you were a walls dont work big brain
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Oct 5, 2023, 7:51 PM
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What ridiculous propaganda do you think I’m being fooled by?
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Legend [18026]
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Check out the big brain on brad!
Oct 5, 2023, 8:34 PM
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Post your sources/evidence showing a wall is feasible and effective on the entire US border since I know you've scoured through tons of different sources and have come to the objective conclusion that "tall wall work!"
If you have a compelling argument for why you think it'll work, I'm actually willing to hear it. One component I'd like to see is how private land is to be taken in order to build the wall.
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110%er [7302]
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False accusation re: Walls STOP illegal immigration
Oct 5, 2023, 8:54 PM
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Credit to lefties for twisting the ‘build the wall to stop illegal immigration’ argument into a ‘walls are the single component needed to stop illegal immigration.’
Instead of engaging in honest dialogue, I.e., properly designed and constructed walls are a tremendously effective component in thwarting illegal immigration,’ the lefties (nearly all of whom wanted illegal immigration as a means to bring in people who could be cultivated to become Democrat voters) argue that ‘walls are useless; they don’t work for stopping illegal immigration. Therefore, do nothing.’
Lefties, faced with this sudden reversal of the Democrat party’s ‘never any wall’ policy, have shown their discipline to their thought masters by pivoting, marching in the opposite direction, and expressing interest in how to ‘make a wall work.’
The non-lefties are completely fooled by this. Big brain on Brad, indeed.
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Legend [18026]
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Brad, let's engage in "honest dialogue"...
Oct 5, 2023, 9:11 PM
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"properly designed and constructed walls are a tremendously effective component in thwarting illegal immigration"
Please elaborate with evidence/specifics. Please leave the weird ramblings in the rest of your post to the side and focus on the substance. "Properly designed and constructed" sure seems like it's doing a ton of work in your sentence, but I'm also curious about the "tremendously effective" conclusion.
Thanks!
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Lot o points [156310]
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I think Lakebum was positing the
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Oct 5, 2023, 11:04 PM
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Truism you learn early in life that fewer people will try to transit across a path with a meaningful impediment than one without. That’s just basic physics meeting basic human behavior.
From there it would seem that step two in any debate would involve you arguing why that isn’t true before Lakebum is required to write a thesis on why it’s harder to scale or cut through a large wall than walk unimpeded across flat ground.
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Legend [18026]
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Another truism...
Oct 5, 2023, 11:37 PM
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For a wall to be effective it must be solid, and have no holes or missing pieces/sections, nor should those who wish to bypass it carry a ladder, rope, or shovel. So, what is the argument that this can be accomplished on the southern border when there are 1,954 miles of land (much of which is privately owned) in an effective and cost-effective manner?
Then there's the truism that increasingly desperate people will act in increasingly desperate ways. So, when you add impediments like walls or things like Title 42 it actually makes the presence of organized crime worse.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/25/us/migrant-smuggling-evolution.html
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Oculus Spirit [79508]
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Here's a little experiment for you
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Oct 6, 2023, 12:46 AM
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Carry a 10' ladder 1/4 mile, report back if it's easier to walk that same distance with or without the ladder. Maybe do the same with bolt cutters. How much more feasible is it to traverse that distance with or without tools?
Then, in a separate experiment, gather friends/family and see what kind of person per minute you can move across a flat lawn vs. climbing a ladder to get over a 5' fence.
This should answer any questions you have.
I also have to 'lmao' at the "cost effective" argument, we're the fuggin grand parents who see their grandkids twice a year for the whole world, slipping them $100 bills whenever we can...but on our own border security we need to micro-analyze the cost effectiveness of potential solutions? It's absurd.
In regards to organized crime, who do you think is bringing these people across in the first place? You think they're just wandering from wherever up to the Mexican/US border? How could it possibly get worse?
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Legend [18026]
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Yes, that's the same argument Obed used only w/more words
Oct 6, 2023, 1:15 AM
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For a wall to be effective it must be solid, and have no holes or missing pieces/sections, nor should those who wish to bypass it carry a ladder, rope, or shovel. So, what is the argument that this can be accomplished on the southern border when there are 1,954 miles of land (much of which is privately owned) in an effective and cost-effective manner?
Then there's the truism that increasingly desperate people will act in increasingly desperate ways. So, when you add impediments like walls or things like Title 42 it actually makes the presence of organized crime worse.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/25/us/migrant-smuggling-evolution.html
Lastly, I figured true "conservatives" would be more concerned about the "cost-effectiveness" of taxpayer-funded/government projects.
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Lot o points [156310]
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A) little kids arent scaling a fence or roping their way up
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Oct 6, 2023, 8:22 AM
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B) a portion of the adult crowd can’t or won’t perform such acts to get over. Boom, weeded out.
C) they can indeed cut through with time and the right equipment. These are now called choke points and are easier areas to enforce than an entire swath of land.
For you to say they don’t work would mean that over a given area of land and a fixed measurement of time, the exact same (or more I guess) number of people would cross with a wall there as without a wall, and that just isn’t true.
I don’t think (I hope) that anyone is saying that walls fix everything. Personally I think the biggest win involves removing economic incentive to come here via meaningful prosecution of illegal employers, but I can’t sit here and say “walls don’t work”….of course they do on some level.
And economics? Does it even matter anymore when neither side gives ashit about the problem? Joe just gave $9B to student loan holders with the swipe of a pen. That would build a lot of wall.
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Legend [18026]
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They don't work b/c they have to be continuous
Oct 6, 2023, 5:01 PM
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and even then, as you've pointed out, they simply slow (at best) the movement and given how much it'd cost to build a 2000mile wall and the constraints of environmental, private land, ecological, and economic issues it seems like a huge time/cost sink with very little payoff. Not to mention that studies show that they (along with Title 42) increased organized crime's involvement at the border. My argument is simply that the issue goes beyond "tall wall keeps out all" and the complexity and cost of such an endeavor is foolhardy when there are better options like...
I agree with you about going after the employers of illegal immigrants, that'd be a much more effective and cost-effective measure.
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Orange Blooded [4024]
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All-In [42472]
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Dang, maybe people should feel stupid and bad.***
Oct 6, 2023, 8:08 AM
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Oculus Spirit [79508]
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I'm coming to the conclusion that a lot of these folks don't
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Oct 6, 2023, 12:36 AM
[ in reply to I think Lakebum was positing the ] |
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really know or understand how people work/behave at all, and that's the root cause of the misunderstandings.
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Legend [18026]
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Some are easier to predict their behavior than others
Oct 6, 2023, 1:16 AM
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but overall, I agree.
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All-In [42472]
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But if people are...
Oct 6, 2023, 8:10 AM
[ in reply to I think Lakebum was positing the ] |
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Already cutting through the flimsy wall--and have done so throughout history--it proves walls don't work.
The only truly effective walls have come with a threat of death when trying to go over, through, or under them.
Walls don't work, people.
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Lot o points [156310]
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Its why the river barriers have proven so effective
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Oct 6, 2023, 8:14 AM
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So of course we have to file a lawsuit to get rid of them.
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Oculus Spirit [79508]
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People have their property taken via eminent domain
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Oct 6, 2023, 12:27 AM
[ in reply to Check out the big brain on brad! ] |
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every day, although that is a very real and legitimate concern/criticism. Personally, I don't like it, but if there's any application that justifies it I would say border security is it.
Look around you, we live amongst all sorts of genius feats of engineering. Even the rubber dilldos you buy are manufactured by complex machines and delivered via a complex system of logistics. Building a 2000 mile wall is not particularly easy, but in the grand scheme of things it isn't hard, either.
Building a wall/barrier isn't necessarily the be all-end all solution, but it certainly helps manage the problem. You're funneling people to points you can manage, no different than herding cattle. This should be common sense to everyone, I really don't understand why it isn't. I think I'm beginning to understand though, I don't need 'sources' to tell me what is obvious to anyone with a working knowledge of how reality works.
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Legend [18026]
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Compromise: Build the walls out of dilldos***
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Oct 6, 2023, 1:22 AM
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Oculus Spirit [79508]
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Im only ok with this if theyre stacked horizontally with
Oct 6, 2023, 8:57 PM
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The heads facing Mexico. I’ll even accept a tax increase to make it happen.
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All-In [42472]
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Oculus Spirit [79508]
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Theyve always worked, its ridiculous to say otherwise
Oct 6, 2023, 9:04 AM
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Thousands of years of civilization show that they do.
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All-In [42472]
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They do when backed by violent force
Oct 6, 2023, 10:15 AM
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Is that the next step?
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Oculus Spirit [79508]
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Could be***
Oct 6, 2023, 2:40 PM
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All-In [42472]
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Oculus Spirit [79508]
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My dog can jump over our fence if she really wanted to
Oct 6, 2023, 9:03 AM
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Does that mean it’s useless? This isn’t a difficult concept, you just have let go of the narrative you’ve bought into to see it.
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All-In [42472]
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Can I jump your fence if I really wanted to?
Oct 6, 2023, 9:04 AM
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If I were a desperate and/or bad person who wanted to cause trouble or trespass?
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Oculus Spirit [79508]
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Of course, buthuman nature dictates youd be more likely to
Oct 6, 2023, 9:14 AM
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Go to the front of the house to avoid it. Not to mention jumping the fence give me more time to detect you and react accordingly. Using your logic there’s no point in fencing in prisons, boat yards, etc.
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All-In [42472]
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Ah ha...
Oct 6, 2023, 10:15 AM
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So you're saying the only way to make sure that fence actually keeps bad/desperate people out is if it's backed by your force.
Thanks for playing.
Do you think prisons have just a simple wall around them?
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Oculus Spirit [79508]
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Youre really stretching here to try to be right
Oct 6, 2023, 2:39 PM
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Read through the thread here, you’re using it to essentially herd cattle and force people to points you can manage. Do you lock your doors at night? If so, why? Somebody could just break a window and get inside.
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All-In [42472]
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Re: Youre really stretching here to try to be right
Oct 6, 2023, 3:15 PM
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I like how y'all are applying the logic of managing a small space of a few hundred square feet to a nearly 2,000 mile border. The astronomical costs and logistics aren't realistic.
To answer this:
Somebody could just break a window and get inside.
Yes. If they're desperate enough and bad enough, they will. And I'll shoot them. Again, that proves my point: this endeavor is useless if not backed by deadly force.
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Legend [18026]
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That's very much where they're going with this idea...
Oct 6, 2023, 5:08 PM
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they know "just a wall" doesn't work. They want a Berlin Wall/No man's land situation on the border.
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Oculus Spirit [79508]
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Thats not true at all, its simply a tool to help manage
Oct 6, 2023, 8:51 PM
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The flow of people, similarly to how you would livestock. It’s a national security issue at this point, the point that has repeatedly tried to be demonstrated to you guys is that a wall/barrier is how you help manage the problem. You create choke points that can be more easily managed, you cannot move the same amount of people or material through a 5’ cut out or tunnel as opposed to a wide open plain. That in of itself is a win, there are certainly other environmental/private property related concerns, but to speak to the original point the “walls don’t work” narrative is absurd.
I also think you make this Mexicos problem by denying entry and pushing them back to Mexico. Those convoys through Mexico will dry up quickly. You know, kinda how NYC all of the sudden had something to say when it became their problem too.
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Legend [18026]
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Fences/walls work with livestock b/c they aren't people.
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Oct 6, 2023, 9:27 PM
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People tend to have tools and problem-solving abilities that allow them to get past those fences/walls as demonstrated throughout history and in numerous articles posted in this thread showing the current walls being easily defeated.
Can you provide an example where an unsecured wall has kept large amounts of people who wanted past it from doing so? If not, then it seems the only way to make a "tall wall" work, must be to make it surveilled and secured with something additional like people or lasers on trained armadillo's heads. So you can add that to the cost of the whole project.
It should be said, that there may be instances/places where a wall helps, but to think a 2000-mile wall is feasible is just not living in reality. There are better methods out there that are vastly more likely to help (like going after employers) that are also much cheaper.
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All-In [34767]
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Walls are for xenophobes***
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Oct 5, 2023, 9:24 AM
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Legend [17418]
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.. not against space lasers.***
Oct 5, 2023, 10:11 AM
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110%er [7279]
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Are people just unfamiliar with cost benefit analysis?
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Oct 5, 2023, 10:25 AM
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Or diminishing marginal returns? Even if you think immigration is somehow costly (debatable), you have to agree that at some point it's just not worth the money spent per immigrant deterred, right? Otherwise, we would have put a big glass bubble over the continental US and prayed immigrants don't figure out to build tunnels. Not to mention that a wall doesn't address people overstaying visas, enty through ship, UFOs, etc.
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Lot o points [156310]
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Hey, dont tell us, tell your President.***
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Oct 5, 2023, 10:31 AM
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CU Medallion [58654]
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110%er [7302]
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CU Medallion [58654]
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Hypocrisy, stupidity, and dishonesty on display.***
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Oct 5, 2023, 10:27 AM
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All-In [42472]
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Ooo, citing the Great Wall of China...
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Oct 5, 2023, 11:07 AM
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As evidence of building a wall at our border centuries upon centuries later!?
I've heard pyramids are effective and practical burial plots for our deceased political leaders as well.
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Letterman [288]
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Dumba$$es
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Oct 5, 2023, 8:21 PM
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Quozz reveals himself as a Neanderthal.
These leftists are so so so stupid. ‘Walls don’t work’ was on every MSM outlet. You only need the brainpower of a one-celled organism to know that is total BS.
And the sheep, some of which have reasonable intelligence outside of politics, fall right in line with no regard for common sense.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Can I ask why you are lying about this?
Oct 6, 2023, 8:22 AM
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You make it sound like suddenly Biden thinks walls work and this is some sort of vindication for Trump.
“I’ll answer one question on the border wall: The border wall – the money was appropriated for the border wall. I tried to get them to reappropriate it, to redirect that money. They didn’t, they wouldn’t. And in the meantime, there’s nothing under the law other than they have to use the money for what it was appropriated. I can’t stop that,” Biden told reporters in the Oval Office.
Asked whether he believes the border wall works, Biden answered, “No.”
“I want to address today’s reporting relating to a border wall and be absolutely clear: There is no new administration policy with respect to the border wall,” Mayorkas said. “Allow me to repeat that: There is no new administration policy with respect to the border wall.”
“We have repeatedly asked Congress to rescind this money, but it has not done so, and we are compelled to follow the law,” he said.
As usually, you guys are f'n liars.
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Orange Blooded [4024]
TigerPulse: 68%
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110%er [6511]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Walls don't work
1
Oct 6, 2023, 10:00 PM
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The accurate statement would be "Walls are not perfect.". Properly built walls work very well .
If they didn't work, why do the illegals avoid the walled areas? I am not talking about the oldest rinky dink chain link and hog cage wire crap, but the modern areas of the border wall.
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