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Rock Defender [54]
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CU Medallion [56241]
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It's not that conservatives are stupid per se
Feb 18, 2015, 8:35 AM
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but they do find themselves in perpetual opposition to education and intelligence.
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Oculus Spirit [79485]
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This sounds exactly like something my unemployed,
Feb 18, 2015, 10:58 AM
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highly in debt, newly divorced, border line insane, liberal cousin would say. She's been in and out of mental institutions and literally spends every dime she gets her hands on, and her life is basically a train wreck, but she miraculously believes she's intellectually superior to everyone. Liberals are funny like that.
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CU Medallion [56241]
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So the bottom line, if I'm reading this correctly, is
Feb 18, 2015, 11:53 AM
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your cousin's single?
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Oculus Spirit [79485]
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Technically yes, although she is incapable of spending
Feb 18, 2015, 12:11 PM
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more than a day or so away from her mother.
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All-In [28802]
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Funny
Feb 18, 2015, 1:06 PM
[ in reply to It's not that conservatives are stupid per se ] |
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When progressives opposed Texas's revised history curriculum, were they also opposing education and intelligence? Or did they have a principled objection to certain things that they disagreed with in the curriculum?
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CU Medallion [56241]
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I'm speaking more of a general derision and mistrust of
Feb 18, 2015, 1:30 PM
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anything conservatives perceive to be elite. It's why they're skeptical of science, the government, higher education, the media, anyone considered to be an expert, and so forth. You see the same thing once you go far enough to the left, too. That's where you find that weird common ground between the extremes on issues like vaccinations.
People are always gonna argue over what gets taught in schools. It's not even necessarily political.
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All-In [42344]
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Advances in science and education create...
Feb 18, 2015, 3:49 PM
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A more well-informed, educated, independent-thinking populous.
So draw your conclusions about the oppositions from there.
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All-In [28802]
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You managed to be even more simplistic than usual here
Feb 19, 2015, 9:44 PM
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Congrats
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CU Medallion [73569]
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lutz
Feb 20, 2015, 7:05 AM
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And no I didn't actually lol cata.
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Orange Blooded [3530]
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Re: Oklahoma lawmaker seeks to do away with AP history courses,
Feb 18, 2015, 9:36 AM
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My daughter just finished APUSH (as they call it now) and I don't think it paints a favorable or unfavorable view...it does what it should...teach things as they actually happened, the reason they happened, etc. Shouldn't be used as a sales pitch for The US as some of my friends believe. There's too much Nationalism in the schools today anyway. I love the US but I was a little shocked recently when I found out my kids actually say the Pledge of Allegiance every morning at school...kind of appalling actually.
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Letterman [295]
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Haven't kids been saying the Pledge of Allegiance
Feb 18, 2015, 9:37 AM
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for decades? Why would you be shocked about it now?
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Orange Blooded [3530]
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Re: Haven't kids been saying the Pledge of Allegiance
Feb 18, 2015, 9:54 AM
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Just surprised me...I remember saying it in primary school but not afterward. I think where I live they are still doing it in high school even. I'm not offended that they do it or anything and didn't tell my kids not to say it...just smacks of Nationalism which I personally feel can be a very bad thing.
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Heisman Winner [136590]
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it's a state law in SC that the pledge is said every day
Feb 18, 2015, 9:57 AM
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in every public school.
Students shall also have at least 90 seconds of silence daily to pray in the manner their parents have taught them.
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Orange Blooded [3530]
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Re: it's a state law in SC that the pledge is said every day
Feb 18, 2015, 10:02 AM
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Well, there you go...didn't realize it was a state law. Have no issue with a moment of silence.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: it's a state law in SC that the pledge is said every day
Feb 18, 2015, 10:18 AM
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I don't have an issue with it either. Just don't understand why it's necessary.
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All-In [42344]
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Oculus Spirit [79485]
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All-In [28802]
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Re: Why is nationalism a bad thing?***
Feb 18, 2015, 1:12 PM
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Nationalism can be a bad thing when the identifying with the distinctiveness of the nation starts to stand in and above every other identity. But, ironically for liberal secularist absolutists, the inclusion of "under God" undermines that kind of nationalism.
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CU Medallion [56241]
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"Under God" doesn't undermine nationalism if America is
Feb 18, 2015, 1:43 PM
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God's country. It actually reinforces it to the point that the Constitution and Declaration of Independence essentially become religious texts. After all, America is the greatest nation in the history of the world and it was founded on Judeo Christian principles.
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All-In [42344]
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The "Under God" isn't the reason the Pledge...
Feb 18, 2015, 3:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: Why is nationalism a bad thing?*** ] |
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...cannot be compulsory. The ruling came in 1943 before the "Under God" was added. It stemmed from Jehovah's Witnesses citing that their religious beliefs demanded they not salute anything else.
"Under God" doesn't help the cause, either, but ultimately it boils down to a 1st Amendment issue.
And honestly, at least on the teenage end, when you tell them they can choose whether or not to stand for the Pledge, they usually choose to stand.
That rebellion thing and all...
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Legend [18026]
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This picture might illustrated better than words...
Feb 18, 2015, 2:17 PM
[ in reply to Why is nationalism a bad thing?*** ] |
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See why some might have a problem with the forced nationalism angle of the pledge?
I've always thought the pledge was a weird and antiquated ritual. It's an interesting historical subject to talk about but I'm not sure why it's still in active use.
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CU Medallion [60244]
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Orange Blooded [3530]
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Re: we said the Pledge every morning too in grammar school
Feb 18, 2015, 9:58 AM
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Maybe Appalled was the wrong word...again, just very surprised. Have no issue with it at football games although I don't usually say the under God part (am a Christian by the way)...just a purist and the original pledge did not have those words.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: we said the Pledge every morning too in grammar school
Feb 18, 2015, 10:17 AM
[ in reply to we said the Pledge every morning too in grammar school ] |
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Appalling? No. But what is the purpose of the pledge of allegiance at a football game or school?
I just want to watch the game or go to school or whatever. Do what you wish in your own freetime.
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CU Medallion [56241]
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Same here.
Feb 18, 2015, 10:20 AM
[ in reply to we said the Pledge every morning too in grammar school ] |
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Elementary school is the ideal location for hosting pledges of allegiance to one's nation because that's where most traitors are lurking. You can ferret them out by seeing which 7 year olds are mindlessly chanting memorized words they don't really comprehend and which ones aren't.
It's kind of ironic that schools in the south require kids to repeat words about America being one nation that's indivisible.
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All-In [42344]
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Hey man...
Feb 18, 2015, 3:43 PM
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We ain't a free country if we aren't trying to force people to recite something as well as recognize our choice of religion!
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All-In [28802]
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Aren't they public schools, after all?
Feb 18, 2015, 1:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: Oklahoma lawmaker seeks to do away with AP history courses, ] |
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And wouldn't it make sense, if we're going to be requiring schooling for children and if we're going to be providing schooling publicly, to make at least part of that education an education for citizenship?
So while I agree that a good American history is one in which students learn about the historical situatedness from which specifically American history emerged, it's also important for students to learn what led to the distinctiveness of American today. You're not going to get that by just treating the US as if it can simply be subsumed under an overall historical emergence of Progress, as defined by whoever is writing the College Board's curriculum.
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All-In [42344]
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Here's how the Pledge in schools works, folks
Feb 18, 2015, 3:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: Oklahoma lawmaker seeks to do away with AP history courses, ] |
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In public school, it is against the law to require a student to stand or recite the Pledge. West Virginia v. Barnette, 1943. It's not up for debate. The courts have shot down many attempts by people since then to force kids to say the Pledge.
The reasons stem from religious freedom.
However, public schools can freely announce the Pledge over the intercom and let students choose whether or not to say it. And the courts have consistently ruled that there is nothing wrong with that.
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All-In [28802]
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Don't agree with the bill, but...
Feb 18, 2015, 12:50 PM
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that doesn't mean that the AP curriculum isn't problematic. Humanities courses, especially, have been influenced by theory which makes history more overtly politicized. Not that I think there's such a thing as an entirely neutral history, but the College Board's most recent US History curriculum was strongly influenced by a group of historians who want history to be taught along more "transnational" lines in order to de-emphasize nationalistic beliefs. Further, the newer curriculum specifies a lot more of what AP US History teachers must teach, so that whatever biases were introduced by the makers of the curriculum will have to be taught by teachers who may wish to emphasize other aspects of American history.
And, finally, it's interesting that protests like this one or the redesign of the curriculum in Texas get the virally derisive treatment, while ones like the one in California that mandated special units on "LGBT contributions" to history (to be added to units on "contributions of both men and women, Native Americans, African Americans, Mexican Americans, Asian Americans, Pacific Islanders, European Americans, lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender Americans, persons with disabilities, and members of other ethnic and cultural groups") are treated as non- controversial. Again, I don't think that there's such a thing as an entirely neutral history, but there's clearly been an attempt by progressives to introduce their own ideology into American history.
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Legend [18026]
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Where are you getting those opinions from?
Feb 18, 2015, 2:40 PM
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/10/01/college-board-says-it-revised-controversial-ap-u-s-history-framework/
From AP American History's course description:
http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/ap/ap-course-exam-descriptions/ap-us-history-course-and-exam-description.pdf
"it also allows teachers flexibility across nine different periods of U.S. history to teach topics of
their choice in depth."
"The curriculum framework that follows is just that — a framework for conveying the content and skills typically required for college credit and placement. In order for teachers to have flexibility in how they help students develop these skills and understandings, the framework is not a curriculum and thus does not consist of a list of the historical content (names, events, dates, etc.) that teachers will choose for classroom focus. Instead, the framework consists of four components, each described below. The result is a course that prepares students for college credit and placement while relieving the pressure on AP teachers to cover all possible details of U.S. history at a superficial level.
And from the overview of AP US History:
"Develop an understanding of major themes in U.S. history, including American identity, economic and social life, political change and continuity, and the U.S. role in the world"
What do you mean by "influenced by a group of historians who want history to be taught along more transnational lines in order to de-emphasize nationalistic beliefs?"
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All-In [40962]
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History has completely changed since we were kids
Feb 18, 2015, 3:04 PM
[ in reply to Don't agree with the bill, but... ] |
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We used to study facts. They no longer worry too much about facts in history class.
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110%er [7013]
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When I studied history in Chesterfield County VA schools in
Feb 18, 2015, 3:17 PM
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the 70's, the slaves were generally a contented lot.
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All-In [42344]
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All-In [42344]
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It's stupidity, plain and simple.
Feb 18, 2015, 3:27 PM
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Any high school student can take APUSH and clearly see there isn't any bias or agenda.
Plus, it's an optional course, so these lawmakers are extra dumb.
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